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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: KurtinStGeorge on July 28, 2020, 01:13:47 AM
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I just finished listening to the audio book version of Peace Talks after having read it about 10-11 days ago. I didn't noticed the first time through that Harry gave Alfred instructions that Thomas can only speak to another prisoner if that prisoner is undergoing the same punishment, and there's only one other prisoner whose doing the contemplation thing.
The alternative is that after talking to Thomas the British prisoner will speak to Harry. However it plays out, what do you think will be learned from all this. I have a feeling it will be about a cure for Thomas that involves Excalibur. There might also be some information about how to breach that special bronze armor the Titan's wearing.
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If it's Merlin, whose father was an incubus in some of the stories, he might indeed learn how to get rid of his hunger demon. He could learn a whole lot more as well and come out an ally just as useful as he always has been if not more so. That'd be pretty cool, but I seriously doubt it.
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I don't think we will know until much later. I think Thomas is going to sit on the shelf for a while. That guy in the cell isn't from the era of Merlin, whoever he is.
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I don't think we will know until much later. I think Thomas is going to sit on the shelf for a while. That guy in the cell isn't from the era of Merlin, whoever he is.
Agreed about Thomas staying on ice for a while. Having to leave his brother in stasis could be part of Harry's depression in Christmas Eve.
About the prisoner, just because he seems English in telepathic communication doesn't necessarily mean he's too new to be Arthurian-era. But if he is more modern and genuinely British, and considering his understanding that he needs to be confined ... I'm thinking either Jack the Ripper or Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde? In universe, either of those stories could be a loup garou, or a conceptually stronger but even worse curse (since the tunnels seem to be a higher security level than the skinwalkers got).
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The various nightmares imprisoned under Demonreach mostly speak to Harry in English, or at least Harry thinks they do. Seeing as how many of them have been imprisoned longer than modern English has been in existence, this suggests their communication is either translated by Demonreach or the magic used to build the prison translates it or there is some kind direct mind to mind communication going on and what Harry thinks he hears is his mind's interpretation of what they're saying. Therefore the British prisoner's use of modern vernacular might be irrelevant.
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What can he learn? Patience...
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British swearing.
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British swearing.
"Oh piss off.." "Bugger off..." Not sure if one hears more watching James Bond or Masterpiece Theater? ::)
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It’s being able to do it properly, Anthony Head tutored James Marsters on exactly this point for Buffy.
Jim may have written that scene to get Marsters to reprise Spike on the Audiobook. Because he can.
Thomas is going to come out with a brilliant Spike impersonation.
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The various nightmares imprisoned under Demonreach mostly speak to Harry in English, or at least Harry thinks they do. Seeing as how many of them have been imprisoned longer than modern English has been in existence, this suggests their communication is either translated by Demonreach or the magic used to build the prison translates it or there is some kind direct mind to mind communication going on and what Harry thinks he hears is his mind's interpretation of what they're saying. Therefore the British prisoner's use of modern vernacular might be irrelevant.
I would agree with that except for how it is done. The prisoner makes a conscious effort to reproduce the vernacular "Piss off." That wouldn't appear to be auto translation.
There is some subtle hints otherwise in the books. Molly is wandering Russia recruiting. Does everybody that she deals with speak English or is she speaking Russian? Or are the recruits doing a Toot Toot? Just out of nowhere in the books Jim introduces a random idea that magical beings have linguistic intellectus.
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I don't think we will know until much later. I think Thomas is going to sit on the shelf for a while. That guy in the cell isn't from the era of Merlin, whoever he is.
1. We have proof that the original Merlin traveled through time so we can't know when his era was or how often he skipped over parts of it by traveling to the future/past and staying there.
2. While he mentally "talks" in a Britishish accent, its all telepathy and as is said before Harry could just be "hearing" it and mentally assigning a British accent to it even without taking into account that Merlin very well could of time jumped to more modern British for awhile then returned to whatever time he wanted.
3. Jim will lie if needed to torture us so even though he said that Merlin is dead and that the guy in the cell isn't Merlin he could be lying.
4. Jim writes the fairies to be unable to lie but are masters at lying by omision, twisting words/meanings, and redirecting the conversation, so I wouldn't put it past Jim for him to say Merlin is dead and as in not breathing, eating, whatnot....kinda like someone who is suspended in status would be. After all Harry said that the Hunger wouldn't hurt his brother and with how bad his brother was at the time the only way that happens is by freezing him in time.
Also something I have thought before, in the real life stories Merlin was supposidly only half human and half fey or demon or something. So we have Mac who is shown great respect by very powerful entities ie Mab and Odin/Santa, as well as being called out by whichever walker. Mac who also healed superhuman (even to a wizard) fast after bullets were removed while he was unconcious and not able to control his actions. Mac who has been called Watcher with a capital W and who has stated that he's Out. Then we have who/whatever is in that cell. Could the occupent be the nonhuman part of Mac/Merlin? The bulk of his power locked away for some reason. I know that Harry has mentioned that he doesn't feel anything magical when touching Mac but if the bulk of his power is locked away in addition to the knowledge that Merlin had, its not that far of a stretch to believe that he could hid whatever remaining power resides within himself from a wizard.
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You know there is a character in Irish Folklore called Mackineally, he was husband of someone called Ethnui.
The Mac/Merlin theory isn’t half as attractive as when a celebrity couple break up. She went and got an unnecessary surgery, and a radical new look and he couldn’t handle it and bought a bar and a sports car, and got involved in pushing his own brand alcohol. Nothing really changes does it?
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You know there is a character in Irish Folklore called Mackineally, he was husband of someone called Ethnui.
Yeah, that's definitely interesting. I had pretty much bought into the Mac = Grigori/Watcher (kind of "half fallen" angels) theory, but now I'm not sure.
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Both are possible, Mac might have been a deep cover spy as MacKineally for Uriel. His cover meant he ended up marrying Ethnui.
Uriel is the Spymaster for the White God, the Gregoris are Watchers, and a synonmyn for someone who watches is spies. Uriel probably placed spies in every major pantheon. For all we know Gregory Christos is in fact one of Uriel’s agents, not the Black Council’s, and we have been looking in the wrong direction for the Black Council spy.
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It would be a good start of her hate of immortals just living among humans instead of being worshipped. And one for why Chicago should be the first city to be destroyed.
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Its why Mab held the Peace Talks in Chicago, Harry at his most powerful and the most powerful distraction.
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Its why Mab held the Peace Talks in Chicago, Harry at his most powerful and the most powerful distraction.
Except Harry really wasn't a distraction in Peace Talks.
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Its why Mab held the Peace Talks in Chicago, Harry at his most powerful and the most powerful distraction.
My best guess; and I've said this elsewhere but I'll go into a little more detail, is Mab knew the Fomor were going to make a move, and Fomor treachery would be the order of the day. Mab wanted to draw Ethniu out into the open, and do so at a time and place where the Titan would be vulnerable. When the Fomor asked for a Peace conference it was the perfect opportunity to goad Ethniu into showing herself by having a mortal host the talks. Marcone must have received a favor or three for being the host. What was most important was that Mab had already arranged for her Knight to be armed with a weapon that can incapacitate an immortal, and Harry already had the perfect place to lock her up..
Harry also needs to be able to get past the Titan's special bronze armor, but that's a separate issue. That's where the Sword of Faith comes in, but it might be going too far to claim that Butters or any of the KotC were a part of Mab's calculations.
So Mira's right, Harry isn't the distraction, he's the secret weapon.
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So Mira's right, Harry isn't the distraction, he's the secret weapon.
Yeah, Harry is probably in a much better position to deal with Ethniu than any of the vastly more powerful beings around.
A fight between Immortals, outside Halloween, isn't going to accomplish much in any lasting way. So while Mab, Odin, and Ferrovax all working together might be able to defeat Ethniu, it wouldn't really stop her long-term (and Ferrovax has already said he won't go all-out due to collateral damage).
But with Demonreach, Harry can imprison Ethniu, and she'll stay gone.
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Harry is the weapon, McAnally is the distraction, family squabbles are after all the deepest distraction possible, Harry already used Thomas in his fight with Eb.
Yeah immortals can reform, so that even if Harry had liberated the holy wood chipper (used the recycle the cross) from Hades Vault and ran Ethnui through that, Ethnui spam would be back to repeat on him.
I think the Athame (which is much more powerful than the swords, multiple angels or archangels inside) can pierce Titanic Bronze as can all the swords. There is no question they can all cut inanimate matter. What won’t work with the Faithsaber is using a mortal as a human shield, which has doubtless been a tactic in the past, and something I suspect Corb would do. Remember Ethnui has an army that has to be got through.
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I just finished listening to the audio book version of Peace Talks after having read it about 10-11 days ago. I didn't noticed the first time through that Harry gave Alfred instructions that Thomas can only speak to another prisoner if that prisoner is undergoing the same punishment, and there's only one other prisoner whose doing the contemplation thing.
The alternative is that after talking to Thomas the British prisoner will speak to Harry. However it plays out, what do you think will be learned from all this. I have a feeling it will be about a cure for Thomas that involves Excalibur. There might also be some information about how to breach that special bronze armor the Titan's wearing.
I agree with your reasoning. I think Thomas is being set up to wield Amoracchius.
The imprisonment of him on Demonreach is going to be an evolution of his character, into someone really worthy of taking up the Sword. Amoracchius from its treatment in the books seems to be the Sword that requires the rarest kind of individual to wield it. This also seems to be supported by Arthur Langtry's reaction to Michael in Proven Guilty.
Just his internment made him suffer the same as his victims over the years. It's one thing to have regret for his actions and empathy, but he gets the full treatment of exactly what they went through, which is something a bit more special as far as suffering goes. Eventually, Butter's version of Fidelacchius will be wielded to kill his demon, making him a vanilla mortal.
But where does the British Prisoner fit into this?
Well, we've got a negative from the author that it's Merlin. The only other mythological figure I know of that's supposed to be sleeping under a magical island is Arthur. That whole 'Piss Off' comment had the vibe of someone trying out a slang term they weren't terribly familiar with...half remembered language lessons from Merlin perhaps?
If Thomas is being set up as a character to take up the Sword, then having an extended chat with the most legendary wielder would be an interesting thing to consider, and it would immediately set him apart even from Michael's legacy. But I would expect this process to take a book or two to end up resolving, and Thomas to be on carbonite for an extended period of time before someone makes the connection with Fidelacchius and ends up freeing him.
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The British Prisoner may have first hand knowledge of how the first Whamp came to be, or may inadvertently been instrumental in bringing them about, which would impact on a cure for Thomas. He might be in protective custody from the White Court. My off the wall guess? Perseus (Jim has admitted the original Clash of the Titans affected him immensely in writing the story arc for The Files) premier monster hunter sounds like a previous warden. Jim is also influenced by Gargoyles, and it is Sir Percival who is the Arthurian character who pops up in that series. A combination of the two perhaps as Merlin was a time traveller.
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If you kill the demon then Thomas is a mortal. And that face won't be pretty if his demon doesn't heal him first. To heal him the demon would have to feed. It could be that the prisoner will show Thomas a way of feeding his demon without killing.
Wielding Michael's sword requires strength that Thomas the mortal won't have. It is a broad sword, is it not? Thomas is strong because he's a vampire. Not because he spends his days in the gym.
Why would they need the sword to pierce the bronze skin when they have the lance? That was it's first purpose.
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Change his hunger to be able to use an alternate non lethal power source and you can heal Thomas, and have all the vampire strength for later on.
Harry is not going to throw anybody to Thomas Hunger, it is not in his nature. I suspect Thomas is healed at the end of Mirror Mirror, Harry finds the final piece or power in the alt world (Thomas would be already dead) but perhaps not Justine. Perhaps Harry brings alt Justine over with him
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Re: Thomas taking up the Sword of Love...
Notice that the Swords and meant to balance the Coins.
Notice that in Skin Game, Nic changed the game by recruiting powerful demi-humans to take up coins -- Blood-on-His-Soul successfully and Goodman Grey unsuccessfully.
The logical result should be Heaven powering up the Knights of the Sword to keep the balance -- which makes it more likely that we'll see a supernatural demi-human recruited to take up a Sword.
Of course, a more explicit balance to Blood-on-His-Soul would be the scion of Strength-of-a-River-in-His-Shoulders... who coincidentally is moving to Chicago...
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What won’t work with the Faithsaber is using a mortal as a human shield.
I don't think I've seen anyone bring up this aspect of it. Interesting.
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I think it would be a standard tactic against a Knight, grab an innocent and use them as a shield, I really hope someone tries this against Butters and he stabs right through the mortal innocent into the monster. This is the safety sword aspect, he can be in a melee with Monsters intermixed with mortals and just wade in. No blue on blue worries.
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It's a serious advantage. The focus has mostly been on the disadvantage of dealing with morally grey opponents.
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Re: Thomas taking up the Sword of Love...
Notice that the Swords and meant to balance the Coins.
Notice that in Skin Game, Nic changed the game by recruiting powerful demi-humans to take up coins -- Blood-on-His-Soul successfully and Goodman Grey unsuccessfully.
The logical result should be Heaven powering up the Knights of the Sword to keep the balance -- which makes it more likely that we'll see a supernatural demi-human recruited to take up a Sword.
Of course, a more explicit balance to Blood-on-His-Soul would be the scion of Strength-of-a-River-in-His-Shoulders... who coincidentally is moving to Chicago...
That's an interesting idea, and I'd like to see it happen. But is Strength-of-a-River-in-His-Shoulders a king, or related to one? Earlier in the series, Harry had a theory that sword wielders are descended from royalty. (Sounds like I need to reread the Bigfoot stories!)
Thomas definitely qualifies-- Papa Wraith was King of the White Court.
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My guess is that it would be hard to find a living human who isn't descended from royalty, if you go back far enough. So, odds are Dr. Helena Pounder is, even if River Shoulders doesn't count.
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My guess is that it would be hard to find a living human who isn't descended from royalty, if you go back far enough. So, odds are Dr. Helena Pounder is, even if River Shoulders doesn't count.
Good point, I'm ashamed I didn't think of that!