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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Cthoniq on April 22, 2023, 07:28:28 PM
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After a readthrough or two, either I'm missing something or the White Council is kind of a joke. If there is any in-setting reason why they've survived this long, it must be because they have benefactors helping them behind the scenes. I'm more of the Opinion that Jim just didn't really think things through, although I don't really blame him. There's that old thing about "write what you know". If you aren't a lawyer, don't try to write a detailed court procedure. If you don't have martial arts experience, don't try to write a detailed blow-by-blow of a clinch for a grapple, etc. Obviously good authors get around this by reading the writings of subject experts or directly consulting them, or they use abstraction to avoid the issue entirely. Robert Jordan wasn't an expert swordsman, but he has some of the best sword fighting sequences in fiction because he uses evocative but largely unexplained sword-fighting forms to describe actions. "Arc of the Moon countered Parting the Silk, which flashed into Heron in the Weeds," etc. Jim's problem comes from the fact that he isn't a .01%er, and there's (supposedly) no 300 year old illuminati guys to talk to in real life so he didn't think through how a group of hyper-rich information brokers would actually go about business.
Jim calls attention to the idea of how conservative long-lived organizations would work, but what exposition says and what the books actually show are very different. The Black Court is a perfect example of about how failure to adapt is absolutely fatal to long-lived beings. The black court have all the tools to be discrete manipulators on par with the white court, but they didn't use those tools wisely, so they were almost wiped out. They have infinite time, infinite money, can control the minds of mortals, have immense leverage when dealing with supernatural beings, and are massively dangerous if ever confronted directly, a lot like wizards actually. Predictably, the only ones that survived the stokerclipse were the ones who used those advantages, kept their head down, and mostly kept out of direct confrontations. Just like wizards. The problem is that how the wizards are described (how the mechanics of the setting established they SHOULD work) and how they act in the books are radically different.
They have wizards answering the phones? THEY HAVE WIZARDS ANSWERING THE PHONES??? It's an organization of 200 year old millionaires lead by a group of 300 year old billionaires, and they don't hire personal staff? Rich people don't do anything themselves. Once you get above a certain income bracket, you start hiring assistants, both because it's convenient, and because your time is way too valuable to be spent doing your own taxes, answering your business phone, or wiping your own butt. Yet you have wizards doing drudge work administrative tasks? Personally doing ground-level assessments of warlocks? Wizards aren't *just* hyper-rich elites, they're technical specialists whose talents require centuries of dedicated full-time practice to develop. It would absolutely be worth spending 100 grand a year or whatever to hire clued-in staff members to take care of all the little details. Peabody being a dedicated beurocromancer for the senior council doesn't bother me. Wizard Macfee(?) answering phones in Changes does. Morgan, head ass-kicker and #1 field guy of the council personally following around wardens for YEARS does. Captain Luccio, commander of the wardens, sitting in front of a phone on desk-duty in the middle of a crisis point during a war does. The White Council should have dozens of hundreds of staff members for every actual wizard, including a ton of mercenaries, allied spirits, and personal retainers to help in the war, yet when we see crisis points it's never a wizard and all their assets, it's two wardens and three noobies responding to a council-ending crisis, or six dudes on a boat coming to throw down with two of the most dangerous people alive. You'd think there would be dozens of wizards who made their fortune by building businesses based around providing confidential, clued in help for other council members, but the only person we ever see doing that is One-Eye.
By contrast, Harry is what, late thirties, early forties by the later books? And he has like a dozen people he can call on for help in a crisis, or even everyday tasks. Dude's got half a dozen warriors on hand, a pack of werewolves, several fae allies, multiple vampires, and a gang of favors he can call in. I get that he's a protagonist, punching above his age and means, but if he can get that in like 15 years as an active wizard, why don't the senior wizards have PILES of resources to call on? Even in emergency "the red court is actively kicking our asses" situations, why on earth wouldn't Luccio have hired some Einherjaren or whatever for the Darkhallow? Why are senior council members personally risking their lives to bring in a prisoner when they could whistle up a gang of spirits to go poke that beehive first? Personnel restrictions can be explained by the war, but not the bizarre risks taken by council members, or the sheer bizarre internal structure of the council. Why are wizards answering the phones? WHY ARE WIZARDS ANSWERING THE PHONES? I know this is an odd thing to fixate on, but imagine Elon Musk or Bill Gates or whatever sitting at a secretary's desk going down a call list verbally giving out an employee newsletter. Then remember that maintaining your talent as a wizard is a full time job on top of whatever other responsibilities you have. So Elon Musk is running his companies, personally doing secretarial work, and holding down a full time job as an engineering supervisor. What?
The mechanics of the setting have absolutely hammered home the idea that an organization that works as inefficiently as the council does should have been destroyed decades ago. For the last couple decades they've had Harry there personally pulling their bacon out of the fire, but what about the 100 years before that? It just really seems like the council should be gone by now. Lara Raith even calls them out for this in Turn Coat, but the text acknowledges the idea without actually implementing it. I really hope I'm just missing something, because it seems like a pretty big error.
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A few points worth noting...
In RE the Black Court: in addition to their various strengths, they have some absolutely-fatal weaknesses. And Stoker's novel, Blampire-Killing for Dummies, was an unexpected and devastating blow. What's more, they didn't want to be "discrete manipulators." They are, basically, bloodthirsty monsters; people exist for you to eat them, not for you to spend your life "manipulating" your food.
I think the issue with "wizards answering phones" is that you're into the security apparatus, there. Mostly, you can't call the White Council. But individual Wardens can call Warden-HQ... and reasonably expect to get a Warden to pick up the phone. In the normal course of affairs, I expect it's trainees and newbies on the phones. We mostly see this when the WC & Wardens are already in extremis from war-casualties (one thing I think the WC could/should do is recruit a bunch of noncombat wizards to fill those noncombat roles; conventional wisdom says that a combat-organization's logistics&support staff outnumber combat staff by between 5:1 - 10:1; see "T3R" -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth-to-tail_ratio).
It might be worth setting-up a separate phone-bank for non-Warden business... but the "masquerade" is deeply-entrenched enough that putting muggles into that loop, cluing them in "needlessly" and exposing private Wizard business, would I think be a non-starter with the WC. Remember, each of those mortals would represent a huge privacy & security risk, given how many mindbenders there are on the Spookyside. Resources spent on protecting their "service staff" would be vast... and in the end, never as secure as relying upon wizards in the first place.
Fundamentally, I think, there's an issue with "300 Year Old Billionaires" -- they are folk of their time. They still train students in the Master/Prentice model, then make (so far as I know) zero effort to find proto-wizards and implement "mandatory public eductation" before the proto-wizards become actual warlocks; the Code Duello / Unseelie Accords are normative; etc.
This is the core of the "old organization conservatism" of the Dresdenverse, and it applies even more to the monsters (many of whom are actually immortal) than it does to the White Council... and there, perhaps, is the key to WC survival: they're working on centuries-old organizational & military doctrines, where most of the monsters use principles outdated a millenia ago.
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I wonder did the Drakul do a reverse Stoker and get Sir Terry Pratchett to write about Wizards?
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@g33k
I'm not saying their awful antiquated ways aren't justified in the text, I'm saying that their survival doesn't seem justified. Jim specifically points out several times that the supernatural world is a cut-throat place wherein weakness is quickly pounced on, then shows several giant weaknesses in the council. Harry covers them in the vampire war, but what about before that? Is the vampire war seriously the first time the council has ever been in conflict with a major power? How have they survived this long?
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@g33k
I'm not saying their awful antiquated ways aren't justified in the text, I'm saying that their survival doesn't seem justified. Jim specifically points out several times that the supernatural world is a cut-throat place wherein weakness is quickly pounced on, then shows several giant weaknesses in the council. Harry covers them in the vampire war, but what about before that? Is the vampire war seriously the first time the council has ever been in conflict with a major power? How have they survived this long?
Most of the Major Powers aren't stupid enough to get into a war with the White Council. The question isn't can the Black Court beat the White Council or can the White Court beat the White Council... the question whenever one supernatural faction gets into war with another is how much damage will the winning side take in the winning?
Your arguments are valid against factions like The Archive or Ferrovax that if you can take them out you can do it in one hit or against factions like Ghouls that are of a fairly uniform power level. The problem with the White Council is that every faction knows that if they attack the White Council they won't get them all in one stroke. And while they could do enough damage to eliminate the council as a faction they all know that Eb or someone like him (or 3 someones like him... or more) will be left nursing a vengence and someone is going to come for you (the leader making the choice) and they WILL take you out, the BEST you can hope for is to kill them too. There are individual exception to this, but they generally lack a motivation to fight the council (they don't gain anything by removing the council) and even those powers (Ferrovax for example) can't be sure they will survive a suicidal Eb and if they do can't be sure to survive the sharks attracted by the blood in the water.
300 year old Billionaires don't just have a LOT of resources they have a LOT to lose.
If a 70 year old Billionaire dies they lose 10-20 years... they still lived a full and rewarding life and can die happy.
If a 700 year old Black Court Vampire dies... they lose eternity, they squandered what they had and threw away everything. Everything.
My question is why did it take so long for the white court to go after the minor talents in an effort to eliminate Wizards from the world. That is the kind of plan that might actually work without unacceptable fallout.
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They're pathologically averse to cluing in mortals to act as 'the help', and pathologically arrogant about the value anyone but a wizard could contribute. And they use junior wizards as receptionists because one thing very rich and powerful old people really love to do is enforce their juniors 'paying their dues' - even if those juniors are capable wizards themselves.
That hasn't killed them *yet* because 1) they're insulated by fantastic amounts of money and magical power, and 2) most of the rivals in their ecosystem are equally, if not more, averse to moving with the times. Most of the other hidebound nations have a blind spot that the way the Council is doing some of these things even is a weakness at all.
But some of their antagonists who aren't so set in their ways. Lara, for one, has basically referred to the Council as a dead organization in the long term that happens to be still walking around in the short term. Splitting Harry off and tying an alliance to him is basically salvaging an asset before the shipwreck - it's just that a lot of things move very slowly among the nigh-immortals.
The reason the Council are still alive isn't because the world is badly written, but because they're falling from a great height in slow motion. It's been foreshadowed that they're on track to either end or go through a transformative reorganization, though.
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The reason the Council are still alive isn't because the world is badly written, but because they're falling from a great height in slow motion. It's been foreshadowed that they're on track to either end or go through a transformative reorganization, though.
The Council will be replaced by or merge with the Paranet.
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The council is the bottom of a Slinky and the top was released a long time ago...
https://youtu.be/eCMmmEEyOO0?t=29
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I agree with the premise, and yet also disagreee.
G33k raises a few good points - namely that the White Council is simply a product of it's time. They aren't all that adaptable. They do have huge resources, but they also are heavily hamstrung by their own internal political problems. They only appear on the outside to work together; internally I would say it's far less organised. Think the UN, but at a smaller scale (the whole White Council is barely a few thousand wizards, given that their wardens only numbered about 200 in Dead Beat).
I agree that Jim probably would find it hard to emulate an Illuminati-esque organisation given his presumed lack of exposure to one. I also agree that the rich and powerful tend to have armies of servants to support them. I suspect the really powerful wizards probably do have large networks of allies and servants - we just haven't seen that much of this yet. But each of the Senior Council has shown glimpses into their networks. The Merlin, of course, has an entire organisation under him to direct. But the Gatekeeper has shown his relationships with the Faeries, Listens-to-Wind has shown his relationships to the Forest People as well as other local magical groups, Martha Liberty has connections amongst the Loa, La Fortier had deep relationships with a lot of European and other factions (which Cristos has taken over), Simon had relationships with the vampires it seems (as well as other European connections), and of course Ebenezar has been shown with the most connections (Vadderung, the Grey Council, Kenku, etc). Part of what makes the senior wizards so strong is their allies and political strength, on top of their magical might and skills. Jim has also said they each have their own demesnes to retreat to...which gets interesting.
We just haven't seen everyone put their cards on the table, as it's a Harry-centric story. Remember, the White Council had many allies to support it during it's war with the vampires. And when it came time to finish them off, there is a decent theory that Harry's involvement with destroying the Red Court and ending the war was somewhat planned (potentially that Harry acting unbeknownst to himself as a sort-of black ops agent). When the temperature ramps up I wouldn't be surprised to see people start to put their cards on the table.
I also believe that the White Council is very strict about allowing outsiders in - as G33k points out it is a security issue as much as anything. But they also seem to big on the idea of not involving vanilla mortals in their affairs. So the hiring of clued-in mortals seems a bit tricky.
I suspect the reason they have survived so long is partially to do with the appearance of power. They have overcome much in their history, which gives the predators pause. And Ebenezar has hinted that the White Council has nearly been wiped out several times over. So yes, they probably have more than a few supernatural benefactors invested in their survival. There is a reasonable theory that Vadderung (among others) caused the creation of the White Council - which makes sense given that he personally trained the original Merlin. So he and those like him would be invested in it's survival. I would be willing to bet he puts out a lot of unseen fires. Let alone beings like Uriel.
Not to mention, at the end of the day it's a group of several thousand of the strongest mortal magic users on the planet (with the exception of certain dark wizards and so on). That power combined, that knowledge combined, makes them a match for many groups. Yes, they are still minnows. They are nowhere near the top of the food chain. But they can probably hurt just about any being, and that alone is scary. Mortal magic after all has special and unique properties that the other supernatural beings don't have. And the White Council is probably the largest well of mortal magic on the planet.
I think the White Council's greatest threat ultimately is itself - and that is certain to be its downfall. Nothing lasts forever and the White Council is assuredly at the end of its time.
Sorry, only just read Snark Knight who sums it up more succinctly and clearly than myself. Agreed.
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I agree with the premise, and yet also disagreee.
G33k raises a few good points - namely that the White Council is simply a product of it's time. They aren't all that adaptable. They do have huge resources, but they also are heavily hamstrung by their own internal political problems. They only appear on the outside to work together; internally I would say it's far less organised. Think the UN, but at a smaller scale (the whole White Council is barely a few thousand wizards, given that their wardens only numbered about 200 in Dead Beat).
I agree that Jim probably would find it hard to emulate an Illuminati-esque organisation given his presumed lack of exposure to one. I also agree that the rich and powerful tend to have armies of servants to support them. I suspect the really powerful wizards probably do have large networks of allies and servants - we just haven't seen that much of this yet. But each of the Senior Council has shown glimpses into their networks. The Merlin, of course, has an entire organisation under him to direct. But the Gatekeeper has shown his relationships with the Faeries, Listens-to-Wind has shown his relationships to the Forest People as well as other local magical groups, Martha Liberty has connections amongst the Loa, La Fortier had deep relationships with a lot of European and other factions (which Cristos has taken over), Simon had relationships with the vampires it seems (as well as other European connections), and of course Ebenezar has been shown with the most connections (Vadderung, the Grey Council, Kenku, etc). Part of what makes the senior wizards so strong is their allies and political strength, on top of their magical might and skills. Jim has also said they each have their own demesnes to retreat to...which gets interesting.
We just haven't seen everyone put their cards on the table, as it's a Harry-centric story. Remember, the White Council had many allies to support it during it's war with the vampires. And when it came time to finish them off, there is a decent theory that Harry's involvement with destroying the Red Court and ending the war was somewhat planned (potentially that Harry acting unbeknownst to himself as a sort-of black ops agent). When the temperature ramps up I wouldn't be surprised to see people start to put their cards on the table.
I also believe that the White Council is very strict about allowing outsiders in - as G33k points out it is a security issue as much as anything. But they also seem to big on the idea of not involving vanilla mortals in their affairs. So the hiring of clued-in mortals seems a bit tricky.
I suspect the reason they have survived so long is partially to do with the appearance of power. They have overcome much in their history, which gives the predators pause. And Ebenezar has hinted that the White Council has nearly been wiped out several times over. So yes, they probably have more than a few supernatural benefactors invested in their survival. There is a reasonable theory that Vadderung (among others) caused the creation of the White Council - which makes sense given that he personally trained the original Merlin. So he and those like him would be invested in it's survival. I would be willing to bet he puts out a lot of unseen fires. Let alone beings like Uriel.
Not to mention, at the end of the day it's a group of several thousand of the strongest mortal magic users on the planet (with the exception of certain dark wizards and so on). That power combined, that knowledge combined, makes them a match for many groups. Yes, they are still minnows. They are nowhere near the top of the food chain. But they can probably hurt just about any being, and that alone is scary. Mortal magic after all has special and unique properties that the other supernatural beings don't have. And the White Council is probably the largest well of mortal magic on the planet.
I think the White Council's greatest threat ultimately is itself - and that is certain to be its downfall. Nothing lasts forever and the White Council is assuredly at the end of its time.
Sorry, only just read Snark Knight who sums it up more succinctly and clearly than myself. Agreed.
The WC suffers from organizational inertia. Almost every large organization has this issue, irl think cops, UN, military and others. Every one knows the organization needs to changeonly noone agrees on what that change should be.
This is why i think the war will benefit the WC IN THE end. New recruits to the Wardens Carlos and such picked up stuff from the old guys and from Harry. Harry mentions that most new Wardens try to model Carlos.
Harry for all his talk is anti social and only attends meetings which are bad news for the council. He does not network. Carlos does.
The WC is believed to be tough. Everyone thought that the war wasn't going to last with the WC winning that it didn't, is a sign of the powers that supported the RC. The WC needs to change to survive but calling it weak is a bridge to far
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The White Council is strong enough to face most of the foes we know of.
Winter and Summer do not have much overlap with them and most of the interactions are one individual against small factions of the Fae Courts. Some of these are even friendly.
The Reds were their main enemy and had the advantage but we know how that turned out. The Blacks are a threat, but they are too few. The Whites are playing the long game. They could probably win but it would require open conflict with all their resources in play and that's not in their institutional DNA.
The Formor, while weaker than the Reds, seem to be stronger but they are limited by their resources being heavily water-bound.
The Denarians are too few and have the Knights to worry about whenever they take action.
So the White Council can fight defensively and reactively against any foe we've seen so far. They can't really go on the offense because their institutional DNA prevents it. They'll rally against an incident but will let grudges simmer forever.
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The White Council is strong enough to face most of the foes we know of.
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I dunno about that... in fact, I kinda doubt it.
We have multiple voices saying that the WC is teetering on the edge. Now, maybe some of them are just "shit-talking" and/or trying to be intimidating, but...
Here's the thing -- there is, broadly, a similar assessment. That the WC is moribund, like a tree that only LOOKS healthy, but has a rotten core. It's just more vulnerable to wind, to disease, to drought, etc. And by and large, these are the assessments of predators.
If only one predator calls out a weakness... maybe they just made a mistake. But when multiple predators call out the same weakness, odds-on that it's really there. And, most-likely, the WC itself (and its member-wizards) are too close to the problem to see it accurately or to solve it expeditiously.
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As far as benefactors go. Is it possible the gatekeeper is actually Odin(he's definitely something, just not sure if Odin is quantifiable) like, were they both at chicken pizza? Or was GK missing? Hiding out as his human guise in it's human roles?
*It'd be a very batman/superman kinda thing. I could see Jim jiving with that kinda concept lol
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The White Council is strong enough to face most of the foes we know of.
I dunno about that... in fact, I kinda doubt it.
We have multiple voices saying that the WC is teetering on the edge.
Being strong enough to face most foes and being rotten in the core and collapsing are not mutually exclusive.
I think the WC is both strong enough to face most of the threats out there AND teetering on the edge of collapse. It comes back to the fact that there are individual members of the WC that are absurdly powerful.
If you give the WC a target and let them bring the Sr Council to bear on it... they will take that target out. There are exceptions to that, but even then... they might. That doesn't mean that the Council isn't actively collapsing. It doesn't even mean that the war with the Red Court didn't EXTEND the life of the Council. Having an external enemy may have kept the council together through a time it would have fallen apart in without that. Infighting and political maneuvering are likely to end the council within Harry's lifetime.
I can't help but draw parallels with Issac Asimov's Foundation and Empire... Spoiler warning for a 75 year old book... The Galactic empire is DEAD... it has been collapsing for hundreds of years when the story starts... its another 200 years later that the Foundation (the colony that the story follows) first encounters the empire and when the two get into a struggle the Empire wins EVERY fight... and just before the empire wipes out the Foundation it withdraws it's forces... and this is all as the mathmatics of history predicted 250 years earlier... if the emperor is weak then strong generals would attack the emperor, if the general was weak then the foundation could defeat him or he would be held in check by other generals and governors... only a strong emperor and strong general could possibly threaten the foundation, but in that case the emperor would be forced to recall, accuse, and execute the general or be deposed by him (the conquering hero). The Empire was stronger than any other faction in the galaxy... even stronger than the Foundation, but it was already dead and had been for 500 years. Once the empire had directly governed every planet in the Galaxy, now it governed less than a third and much of that only indirectly. Once the Empire had built fleets of warships stronger than anything ever seen before or since, now they couldn't even fix them when they broke, much less make new ones. Oh, the knowledge was in books, but no one had the technical understanding to read those books and put them to use. And more often than not the books themselves were hidden and guarded.
The WC is a lot like the Empire of the Foundation series... Including the Merlin kicking out Harry for being too successful out of fear. Arthur Langtry is the most powerful mortal practitioner alive, but he isn't a great leader, which is what you would expect from an organization that promotes members based on personal power/skill not ability to lead and make decisions. He seems to be driving the WC off a cliff for fear of not being the guy in charge... He is too defensive, too inactive, too afraid.
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Being strong enough to face most foes and being rotten in the core and collapsing are not mutually exclusive.
I think the WC is both strong enough to face most of the threats out there AND teetering on the edge of collapse. It comes back to the fact that there are individual members of the WC that are absurdly powerful ...
Remember -- the WC was losing the Rampire War.
They had lost so many Wardens & other combat-wizards, they were training up kids as combatants. That is a desperation move, right there.
Then the Ramp's pushed Harry Dresden too far, and it cost them everything.
All of the powerful wizards have a few "OMG" tricks up their sleeves... the Blackstaff showed up with a private army of Kenku, fer cryin' out loud! Not to mention Mother Winter's Walking Stick...
But Dresden arrived with *ALL*THREE*SWORDS*OF*THE*CROSS* . Remember, just *one* Knight with *one* Sword was able to take out a (capital-D) Dragon.
If the Ramp's had just kept up their same campaign, they very-likely would have won; or if not an outright victory, done sufficient damage that other predators would have moved-in and taken their own bites.
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Remember -- the WC was losing the Rampire War.
They had lost so many Wardens & other combat-wizards, they were training up kids as combatants. That is a desperation move, right there.
Then the Ramp's pushed Harry Dresden too far, and it cost them everything.
All of the powerful wizards have a few "OMG" tricks up their sleeves... the Blackstaff showed up with a private army of Kenku, fer cryin' out loud! Not to mention Mother Winter's Walking Stick...
But Dresden arrived with *ALL*THREE*SWORDS*OF*THE*CROSS* . Remember, just *one* Knight with *one* Sword was able to take out a (capital-D) Dragon.
If the Ramp's had just kept up their same campaign, they very-likely would have won; or if not an outright victory, done sufficient damage that other predators would have moved-in and taken their own bites.
And now that the Reds are gone, what remaining faction has the power and the desire to take out the White Council?
The Formor would have the best shot but they are limited by being a mostly water-bound nation. Also, after BG, everyone is at war with them so the Council won't stand alone.
The White Court doesn't do open confrontation and don't really have a need. Nothing they do violates the Laws of Magic.
The Blacks don't really have the power. Drakul can take any one of the Senior Council but any two would be a real fight and three or more might take him. They lack the numbers and they are too vulnerable during the day.
Mab is alternately amused and annoyed by the Council but she sees them as useful tools for her real job. Ditto Titania.
Who else is there? The Denarians are too few plus the KotC will join that fight, the Ghouls lack the numbers and the power, Vadderung is an ally, the Svartalves aren't aggressive, the Jades have never made an appearance and Ferrovax isn't concerned about the world on that level.
The Council is fading fast but they're still a force to be reckoned with. Think of them as the equivalent of Great Britain in the real world. The US and China can take them, and maybe the USSR also but no other country wants to face them even though they're a far cry from the glory days of the British Empire.
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Somewhat I think they are respected, of at least tolerated as a necessary function of reality by most of the supernatural "good guys"( really just the people in the know). Not because of whom they are but of the enormous power they potentially have. Active creation. A necessary component of reality given intentionally in my mind to the weakest denominator available. It's a power that can bring outsiders in, give existence to things that don't. It's sussed out in SK mortal magic would give winter a huge power advantage, an element they don't have, imagine what a Walker could do with that.
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Remember -- the WC was losing the Rampire War.
They had lost so many Wardens & other combat-wizards, they were training up kids as combatants. That is a desperation move, right there.
Then the Ramp's pushed Harry Dresden too far, and it cost them everything.
All of the powerful wizards have a few "OMG" tricks up their sleeves... the Blackstaff showed up with a private army of Kenku, fer cryin' out loud! Not to mention Mother Winter's Walking Stick...
But Dresden arrived with *ALL*THREE*SWORDS*OF*THE*CROSS* . Remember, just *one* Knight with *one* Sword was able to take out a (capital-D) Dragon.
If the Ramp's had just kept up their same campaign, they very-likely would have won; or if not an outright victory, done sufficient damage that other predators would have moved-in and taken their own bites.
Yes exactly... the organization is trying to collapse and the absurd power level of some of it's individual members just says "No." so it doesn't... for now...
Harry with the Swords and Eb with the Kenku or a defunct Soviet satellite are three great examples.
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I'd also see the power level of some items in the Councils hands would keep others away from pushing them over the edge. At least with Eb holding the Blackstaff everyone (who needs to) knows where it is, same most likely with a few other item's in vaults in Edinburgh.
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I'd also see the power level of some items in the Councils hands would keep others away from pushing them over the edge. At least with Eb holding the Blackstaff everyone (who needs to) knows where it is, same most likely with a few other item's in vaults in Edinburgh.
And now "items in Harry's hands."
Most of the supernaturals realize Harry has the Eye of Balor. It makes many of them nervous... but preferring not to challenge Harry directly. Not the least, I think, because of worry where else the Eye might wind up, in the general chaos & confusion of a big fight.
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The Blackstaff is an item of power from Winter, I doubt it can be used on the Winter Knight, without Mother Winter taking it back.
As regards the most powerful items historically associated with the White Council, Excalibur and the Holy Grail, they are in Harry and Nicks hands. Indeed no-one seems ready to trust the White Council with any important artifact, preferring Hades to hold them.
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The Blackstaff is an item of power from Winter, I doubt it can be used on the Winter Knight, without Mother Winter taking it back.
I don't think she can just magically take it back... (she can't summon it like a Denarian can summon their coin)
Also the Black Staff isn't a weapon that you can 'use on the Winter Knight' it is more like a filter or shield that protects you from the taint (for lack of a better word) of the Black Magic you use, Eb can do all the same spells with or without the staff, it just corrupts him if he does it without the staff.
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My guess it was a bargain with Mother Winter before even Eb’s time and whilst Eb wouldn’t use the Blackstaff on Harry, some less clued in wielder of the Blackstaff will probably do so should the Merlin seek to appoint a new Blackstaff who would try to use it against the Winter Knight, in such circumstance the bargain would be broken and the Blackstaff would go to the nearest agent of Winter, Harry.
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My guess it was a bargain with Mother Winter before even Eb’s time
The problem with theories based on theories... is that they make for weak support, especially as they get farther out.
"It is her way," Mother Summer said, smiling. "She rarely leaves our cottage anymore. She lost her walking stick ... But it is terribly painful for her to travel, even briefly..."
Not a Bargain, possibly a bet. We are meant to believe a theft or it was misplaced.
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Not really, Winter is in cahoots with elements of the White Council the Gatekeeper is proof of that.
We have been given clues that the Blackstaff is Mother Winters missing walking stick, most recently in Battle Ground Eb’s shadow in wielding it is that of a Crone.
Mother Winter is an Intellectus, she knows exactly where her walking stick is at all times. Therefore Eb holds it with at least her tacit consent, which she can withdraw at any time.
In The Law Mab steps in when there is an attack on the company car, she sees it as an embarrassment, an attack upon her Knight with the Blackstaff would be seen in the same vein by Mother Winter.
Harry as the Winter Knight is specifically Mab’s agent in the mortal world, but he is also Mother Winters.
Eb in attacking Harry didn’t use the Blackstaff.
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The thing is woj says it was stolen which I find to be a key word considering how fae like Jim will be with his answers. And that MW would really like it back.
🤔 Though I'm thinking the Black staff is actually more MW's agent than than the WK. It's a pretty big piece of whom she is on some levels and clearly has a will and form of its own. The biggest difference between mantle and staff here is the presumed placement of the mantle itself, but the effects and descriptions of function remain similar enough even as the precise abilities differ.
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Not really, Winter is in cahoots with elements of the White Council the Gatekeeper is proof of that.
We have been given clues that the Blackstaff is Mother Winters missing walking stick, most recently in Battle Ground Eb’s shadow in wielding it is that of a Crone.
Mother Winter is an Intellectus, she knows exactly where her walking stick is at all times. Therefore Eb holds it with at least her tacit consent, which she can withdraw at any time.
In The Law Mab steps in when there is an attack on the company car, she sees it as an embarrassment, an attack upon her Knight with the Blackstaff would be seen in the same vein by Mother Winter.
Harry as the Winter Knight is specifically Mab’s agent in the mortal world, but he is also Mother Winters.
Eb in attacking Harry didn’t use the Blackstaff.
A: The Blackstaff isn't a weapon, it protects you from the taint of Black Magic you don't use it against someone.
2nd: it is as likely as anything else that Mother Winter lost the black staff in a bet with say Uriel, and he gave it to the Black Council and MW can't take it back without upsetting him and or going back on her given word... this might be an agreement with the original Merlin or someone else.
Finally my point was that Mother Summer said "LOST", she can't lie, so lost in a bet, misplaced, something like that, but she can't have loaned it to the WC for example.
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I never said that it was a weapon, but Eb was trying to kill Harry, exactly what the Blackstaff protects against. It allows the user to kill using magic without the consequences such an act normally entails. Eb could have easily summoned the Blackstaff to show how serious he was.
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OG Merlin either stole it or won it in a bet the same way Harry in Cold Days won the Wild hunt in. Power cant be given, in freely. MW is among the most powerful beings in the universe. Noone steals from her with out her consent. Similar to how Harry and co stole from Hades
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OG Merlin either stole it or won it in a bet the same way Harry in Cold Days won the Wild hunt in. Power cant be given, in freely. MW is among the most powerful beings in the universe. Noone steals from her with out her consent. Similar to how Harry and co stole from Hades
Except Harry didn't steal from Hades, he passed the test that Hades had set up and gained the Artifacts as a result. The test being if you weren't clever enough and strong enough to get into the vault to get them, you weren't either clever enough or strong enough to wield them.
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My guess is the true origin of the Blackstaff is passed down from Blackstaff to Blackstaff, the current Merlin may not know what it actually is, and its true origin. Ordering Eb to pass it to his lackey means that Eb is unlikely to tell him squat.
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My guess is the true origin of the Blackstaff is passed down from Blackstaff to Blackstaff, the current Merlin may not know what it actually is, and its true origin. Ordering Eb to pass it to his lackey means that Eb is unlikely to tell him squat.
WoJ is that the Blackstaff chooses his own successor...
I don't think the Gatekeeper, Warden, or Blackstaff are offices of the Council, I think they are offices that when held are usually held by members of the Council. The Merlin and the Sr Council are the only offices of the Council. (well Peabody's and other administrative offices exist... as does the Commander of the wardens (little w))
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The Merlin is unlikely to respect precedent in his hatred of Eb (and Harry) if Eb won’t deal with Harry then he will seek to strip Eb of his position on the Council and the Blackstaff. That too may break the deal for the use of the Blackstaff.
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WoJ is that the Blackstaff chooses his own successor...
Can you find the cite for that, please? I've seen it before, several times, so I believe you.
Thing is, the citation that I know about says something else:
Would you tell us how a person gets choosen to be The Blackstaff of the White Council?
Heh. He picks up the Blackstaff with full knowledge of what he’s in for if he does. If you can find someone crazy enough to do that, and reliable enough to be trusted with it, he gets the job.
-- https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-harrys-mortal-allies/
I don't think the Gatekeeper, Warden, or Blackstaff are offices of the Council, I think they are offices that when held are usually held by members of the Council. The Merlin and the Sr Council are the only offices of the Council. (well Peabody's and other administrative offices exist... as does the Commander of the wardens (little w))
I don't think we have WoJ on this, but I agree with you.
"Blackstaff" is an unofficial title, an acknowledgement of how-things-are. Ditto "Gatekeeper."
I'm not even sure they're aware of "whoever is linked to Demonreach" actually being a "Warden," to be honest. I think it would Freak Them the F'k Out to learn that there is a Warden (with a cap-W), and that Harry Dresden is it: there being a Warden rather implies that such a person is in charge of their (small-w) wardens (since both the Well/prison and the White Council itself are the OG Merlin's work...) .
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The snippet from Eb's diary implies he knows the "original purpose" of the island. Tho what he'd actually say that is is debatable. Could be he knows more than us the reader, or less. Although we know it's function, do we really know why it was built/necessary to begin with?
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The snippet from Eb's diary implies he knows the "original purpose" of the island. Tho what he'd actually say that is is debatable. Could be he knows more than us the reader, or less. Although we know it's function, do we really know why it was built/necessary to begin with?
I suspect -- since those books apparently go all the way back to the writings of the OG Merlin himself -- that Eb (if any mortal wizard) has the best notion of what the OG Merlin's plans and intentions were.
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The Merlin is unlikely to respect precedent in his hatred of Eb (and Harry) if Eb won’t deal with Harry then he will seek to strip Eb of his position on the Council and the Blackstaff. That too may break the deal for the use of the Blackstaff.
I'm not sure there is a "deal" as-such. WoJ says:
Q: Can you tell us a little more about the black staff?
A: The staff keeps Eb from going crazy, mostly. Also, the White Council stole it from someone. And they really want it back.
I doubt even Eb could hold the staff by main force (nor obscure trickery) if Mother Winter herself came to take it from him. So if (per WoJ) she "really wants it back," there's some reason she hasn't got it.
The WC's possession of the Blackstaff may be due to them fulfilling a certain suite of conditions such that the Fae (who are very rules-bound) aren't allowed to reclaim it.
Maybe they somehow "tricked" the fae into a bargain (got granted some relatively-unlimited boon & expected it to be "make me immortal" or "restore my family to its rightful role & properties" or what-have-you; but claimed the Blackstaff instead, "stealing" it that way... and now the Fae are bound by that bargain).
But given WoJ that they "stole" it, there can't be a "deal" for the Blackstaff.
Unless of course Jim changed his mind!
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Can you find the cite for that, please? I've seen it before, several times, so I believe you.
Thing is, the citation that I know about says something else:-- https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-harrys-mortal-allies/
"Eb took up the Blackstaff in 1884-1885 somewhere in there.” And “The Blackstaff chooses his successor." - Jim 2016 DF Reddit podcast Q&A
https://youtu.be/4Gmu76ritoQ?t=2959
It is also the last Eb blurb on the link you provided.
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I don't think we have WoJ on this, but I agree with you.
"Blackstaff" is an unofficial title, an acknowledgement of how-things-are. Ditto "Gatekeeper."
I'm not even sure they're aware of "whoever is linked to Demonreach" actually being a "Warden," to be honest. I think it would Freak Them the F'k Out to learn that there is a Warden (with a cap-W), and that Harry Dresden is it.
No, no WoJ on that, hence all the ‘I think’s, speaking of… I think they know, and I think they are freaked out… why else kick Harry out of the club?
Kemmler was Warden, then another, then Harry… the post hasn’t been empty for that long… I think they know and I think it scares them… I would guess that part of what made Kemmler was demonreach… I think he probably listened to too many of the inmates… and took some advice and knowledge… I think they are afraid that Harry is on the same path.
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My theory was that Aleron Fortier was the Warden before Harry, and that his murder by Peabody was a premeditated move to sever the connection with Demonreach so that Peabody could assume the link and control of Demonreach.
He was obviously working to a particular end and may have been feeling out who was the secret Warden on the Senior Council, only making his move when he was sure. Unfortunately before he could get to the island, Harry had assumed the link blocking any attempt by Peabody to assume it himself. When he arrived with Maeve (via a Never Never link in Winter) he may have hurriedly tried the ritual only to almost immediately be blocked. That is a motive for Peabody both arranging the death of Fortier and in going to the island.
This why Jim won’t reveal the identity of the previous Warden, it is someone we have met and is therefore significant to the narrative, but is dead by the events of Turn Coat. Of the Wizards we have met who have died that is just DuMorne and Fortier, and the timing is much better for Fortier.
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🤔 I thought the island has sat dormant since kemmler was the warden? I remember woj they were trying to kill him the last time before he could make it back to the island, presumably to do a darkhallow I think. I'd think Justin would be the obvious choice if there'd been one in-between tho. Then they'd have pretty good reason to fear the 3rd in line warden.
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My theory was that Aleron Fortier was the Warden before Harry, and that his murder by Peabody was a premeditated move to sever the connection with Demonreach so that Peabody could assume the link and control of Demonreach.
He was obviously working to a particular end and may have been feeling out who was the secret Warden on the Senior Council, only making his move when he was sure. Unfortunately before he could get to the island, Harry had assumed the link blocking any attempt by Peabody to assume it himself. When he arrived with Maeve (via a Never Never link in Winter) he may have hurriedly tried the ritual only to almost immediately be blocked. That is a motive for Peabody both arranging the death of Fortier and in going to the island.
This why Jim won’t reveal the identity of the previous Warden, it is someone we have met and is therefore significant to the narrative, but is dead by the events of Turn Coat. Of the Wizards we have met who have died that is just DuMorne and Fortier, and the timing is much better for Fortier.
That's an intriguing theory. At a guess, all of the SC wizards would be capable of performing the ritual. We know nothing at all, that I recall, about LaFortier's magical talents or strengths (other than "strong enough to get a SC seat"); nor his personality or preferences. Would he want to be The Warden? Would he even be willing? We dunno.
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The Senior Council wanted someone strong enough to master Demonreach in the ritual, but with no real interest in being Warden, not after Kemmler Fortier would have been a perfect absentee warden.
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My theory was that Aleron Fortier was the Warden before Harry, and that his murder by Peabody was a premeditated move to sever the connection with Demonreach so that Peabody could assume the link and control of Demonreach.
Interesting, it would mean it is possible for Christos to NOT be black council… the default assumption being that Fortier was killed to free his spot for the black…
Obviously it could be two birds and they wanted both. But interesting theory… I like it.
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The Senior Council wanted someone strong enough to master Demonreach in the ritual, but with no real interest in being Warden, not after Kemmler Fortier would have been a perfect absentee warden.
AFAIK, we have almost no info about him.
Nothing to judge "no real interest in being Warden," yea or nay.
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🤔 I thought the island has sat dormant since kemmler was the warden?
The WOJ on Kemmler came from someone asking who was the previous Warden. Jim wouldn't answer the last one, but he did volunteer Kemmler being the next previous before that.
"Eb took up the Blackstaff in 1884-1885 somewhere in there.” And “The Blackstaff chooses his successor." - Jim 2016 DF Reddit podcast Q&A
Eb also said New Madrid was one of the disasters he'd caused with it, though, and that earthquake was sometime in the 1810's. So either Jim was answering that one off the cuff and misspoke his timeline, or Eb borrowed the staff for a one-off before taking it up permanently.
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Eb also said New Madrid was one of the disasters he'd caused with it, though, and that earthquake was sometime in the 1810's. So either Jim was answering that one off the cuff and misspoke his timeline, or Eb borrowed the staff for a one-off before taking it up permanently.
I think he meant that the Blackstaff enabled him to use the kind of magic that would cause such a thing by protecting him from being corrupted by it.
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I believe like Christos, Fortier tended to represent African and Asian interests on the White Council, leaving him little opportunity to visit Demonreach in North America. There was also concern that with Eb finally accepting a seat North America was over represented hence Christos.
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After a rereading of SF, I have to conclude that there was no Warden over Demonreach at the time.
Otherwise, six Denarians wouldn't have been able to set up shop there for 2-3 days without the White Council showing up. I can't believe that the island doesn't have some way to alert the warden of an invasion by powerful mystic forces who are setting up a camp for an prolonged stay. (At minimum, the time it takes to break Ivy.)
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After a rereading of SF, I have to conclude that there was no Warden over Demonreach at the time.
Otherwise, six Denarians wouldn't have been able to set up shop there for 2-3 days without the White Council showing up. I can't believe that the island doesn't have some way to alert the warden of an invasion by powerful mystic forces who are setting up a camp for an prolonged stay. (At minimum, the time it takes to break Ivy.)
... ??!?
Unless the Warden was OK with having Denarian houseguests.
Just sayin'
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Unless the Warden was OK with having Denarian houseguests.
Just sayin'
The island didn't have a Warden at that time, only Alfred. It was doing it's best with psychic vibs to keep people off the island and the defenses that kept the actual prison hidden. That is why Alfred was so relieved when Harry came along and unwittingly bonded with it, thus becoming it's Warden.
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After a rereading of SF, I have to conclude that there was no Warden over Demonreach at the time.
Otherwise, six Denarians wouldn't have been able to set up shop there for 2-3 days without the White Council showing up. I can't believe that the island doesn't have some way to alert the warden of an invasion by powerful mystic forces who are setting up a camp for an prolonged stay. (At minimum, the time it takes to break Ivy.)
If Fortier was the warden at that time he likely had issued standing orders to Alfred to keep people away from the island but without violating the laws of magic, so the feeling wasn't strong enough to drive them away, just to make them avoid if reasonable, and otherwise to not interact with people showing up.
We know from Cold Days that the Island doesn't have a way to warn the Warden remotely... so no it couldn't call in a White Council strike team, especially on short notice with the Warden absent from the island.
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This ties in with the absentee warden theory, Fortier may not have been to the island in decades, and Alfred was working to long established protocols.
If he hadn’t visited for decades this would have made it more difficult for Peabody to identify the Warden, especially if Cowl is Nameless. There is a way through Winter to Demonreach used by the Gatekeeper and Maeve (Mab didn’t trust Harry appearing suddenly on the island and she can teleport). Kemmler still held the Wardenship when died (finally?) in 1961 allowing a new Warden to take it on, one of the Senior Council so Fortier did the ritual and never went back, all before Nameless went into Winter leaving Nameless frustrated not knowing who the new Warden is and subject to Winter Law. Nameless partnered with Kemmler and that connection would explain Nameless knowing about the Warden, the ritual, and about Demonreach’s defences (the latter he was in a position to pass onto Maeve).
Nameless original purpose in seeking asylum in Winter may have originally been to get access to Demonreach which makes me wonder - did he sell out Kemmler to the White Council to get a new Warden appointed, one who Mab wouldn’t block in the NeverNever? Did Nameless have Justin as a sleeper agent with instructions to recover Bob and The Word? We know Peabody was a sleeper agent, and if my theory was correct he was inking the Senior Council to identify and then kill the current Warden. Peabody was the Plan B.
The plot to undermine Winter through Nemesis would have come along later.
Fortier was one of the Senior Council who voted against Harry, did he suspect DuMorne, and this was why DuMorne retired from the Wardens after Kemmler and was worried about Harry’s connection to him? Was that the reason he was absent from Demonreach (or one of them)? Nameless association with Kemmler was known, so Fortier would have known this, and was worried about Nameless being in Winter and refused to use the Winter Short-cut? This actually paints Fortier in a much better light, his distrust of Harry then makes sense, he might have concluded Harry was being prepared as a weapon to assassinate him to free the Wardenship. Was Justin mind-controlling Elaine and then Harry to get them inside the White Council as apprentices under his control in the same way that occurred with the Captain?
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Just reading what's here, I think it's a sham anyway. The warden previous to Harry was Harry.
DR has intellectus, it has trouble separating events in time, someone arrives whom he knows is warden even though it's not the WHEN it's not going to matter to him, here stands Warden.
Follow this with Woj on who sent Shagnasty,"someone who considers him cheap muscle." We now know the Warden can unleash any being in DR under his own Will, as we learned with ethniu. Considering what he can call up, Shagnasty IS cheap muscle to him. Notice how the damage to Thomas is suddenly undone to the point of never being talked about again after a few books? Because next time Dresden went through the timeloop he made sure to cover Thomas with the geas of what shaggy was and wasn't allowed to do. Shaggy knew taking Thomas would hurt both Harry's, if not why. It was his petty revenge for being pawned out. The empty hallow Harry lays in for his recovery, was Shagnasty's. An empty reticle in an otherwise full room seems odd til you consider where the other one went.
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Follow this with Woj on who sent Shagnasty,"someone who considers him cheap muscle." We now know the Warden can unleash any being in DR under his own Will, as we learned with ethniu. Considering what he can call up, Shagnasty IS cheap muscle to him.
Given Harry seems to have essentially PTSD from his brush with the skinwalker, I'm not sure how a future version of Harry would end up loaning him out as cheap muscle to anybody. If there came a need to release something, I almost think he'd pick something objectively a bit worse instead, just because of his subjective anything-but-Naagloshii bias.
Mirror universe dark Harry probably wouldn't have the same qualms, though.
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Given Harry seems to have essentially PTSD from his brush with the skinwalker, I'm not sure how a future version of Harry would end up loaning him out as cheap muscle to anybody. If there came a need to release something, I almost think he'd pick something objectively a bit worse instead, just because of his subjective anything-but-Naagloshii bias.
Mirror universe dark Harry probably wouldn't have the same qualms, though.
where'd that bias come from? Not from when he'd never let him out before? Timeloops are particularly funny in the DF, with conservation of history an all.
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This ties in with the absentee warden theory, Fortier may not have been to the island in decades, and Alfred was working to long established protocols.
If he hadn’t visited for decades this would have made it more difficult for Peabody to identify the Warden, especially if Cowl is Nameless
And you lost me...
A bunch of perfectly good Theorizing and then you go and cram in a pet theory...
How does Cowl being Nameless or not being Nameless affect Peabody's ability to identify the Warden who doesn't visit for decades?
Nameless was introduced too late and in a side story, he can't be Cowl.
The empty hallow Harry lays in for his recovery, was Shagnasty's. An empty reticle in an otherwise full room seems odd til you consider where the other one went.
The are no empty hallows, not because Demonreach is full, but because Demonreach grows new ones as needed, and in the unlikely event of a hallow not being needed... it clears them out.
We see Demonreach withdraw the water from trees to get rid of the creatures in the trees, we see a full prison and Harry asks if Demonreach can hold something as big as Ethniu and Alfred says size isn't an issue, so Harry tells him to prepare a cell. Hallows are created at need and if needed destroyed at need. There are NEVER empty hallows. the Hallow Harry was in was Harry's Hallow. it was created for Harry and not seen later during his recovery because it no longer existed because it was no longer needed.
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Because Nameless ensconced himself in Winter, if the Warden has access to a way through Winter to Demonreach and visited regularly Nameless was in the perfect position to identify the Warden and pass that information to Peabody. Because of the absentee warden Peabody had to identify the Warden through less direct means i.e. mind control inks and slips made by the Senior Council under their influence which could take decades.
This presumes that Mab’s Ice Garden in Arctis Tor where those who have displease her are placed in ice crystals for long periods. Merlin and Mab were of course a ‘thing’ so giving Mab the back door key to Demonreach makes sense. If so Harry can easily get from the Winters Knights quarters to the Ice Garden both in Arctis Tor and to Demonreach. If only Harry had access to a fortress staffed by warriors of Winter in the Mortal World he would then be able to forge a safe connection to Demonreach and avoid the tedious but dangerous journeys by boat.
Being stuck in Winter without identifying the Warden must have chapped Nameless ass.
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The are no empty hallows, not because Demonreach is full, but because Demonreach grows new ones as needed, and in the unlikely event of a hallow not being needed... it clears them out.
except the hallow Harry laid in was still empty while he lived on the island. Theorizing is great. Don't tell me mines invalid based on one yours tho. DR didn't withdraw the water of his own cognizants, he understood the thought that went through Harry's head.
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Because Nameless ensconced himself in Winter, if the Warden has access to a way through Winter to Demonreach and visited regularly Nameless was in the perfect position to identify the Warden and pass that information to Peabody.
Winter is a BIG place... I believe winter is bigger than the surface of the Earth...
IF the Warden has access to a way through Winter, AND the Warden uses it... Nameless would be less likely to catch him then Peabody who at least was at the same starting point...
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It depends on whether Nameless knew where the gate came out in Winter, remember Nameless is likely older than Mab, her and the Merlin would have been the gossip of the day, and if Nameless knew about Demonreach being built by Merlin then yes Arctis Tor is the likely destination and to be congruent Mab’s personal prison within it, so Mab is guarding the back door and behind her Mother Winter.
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It depends on whether Nameless knew where the gate came out in Winter, remember Nameless is likely older than Mab, her and the Merlin would have been the gossip of the day, and if Nameless knew about Demonreach being built by Merlin then yes Arctis Tor is the likely destination and to be congruent Mab’s personal prison within it, so Mab is guarding the back door and behind her Mother Winter.
No, I don't believe the island's only never never connection is Arctis Tor... Peabody knew another because I don't think he could have gotten to Arctis Tor without discovery. Gatekeeper could have taken Arctis Tor.
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Maeve brought Peabody, there is route to outside Arctis Tor to the Phobophages lair via Pell’s theatre in Chicago. Peabody uses the same way from Edinburgh to Chicago as the Senior Council, got his photo taken, hailed a cab or got a lift from Nameless to Pell’s, opened a way to the lair, met by Maeve who smuggled him into Arctis Tor and opened the way to the Island bringing a load of giant spiders from Winter.
Nameless had been expelled from Arctis Tor following Proven Guilty, it likely added to Mab’s deduction that Maeve was hopelessly compromised the help she gave Peabody..
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Maeve brought Peabody, there is route to outside Arctis Tor to the Phobophages lair via Pell’s theatre in Chicago. Peabody uses the same way from Edinburgh to Chicago as the Senior Council, got his photo taken, hailed a cab or got a lift from Nameless to Pell’s, opened a way to the lair, met by Maeve who smuggled him into Arctis Tor and opened the way to the Island bringing a load of giant spiders from Winter.
Nameless had been expelled from Arctis Tor following Proven Guilty, it likely added to Mab’s deduction that Maeve was hopelessly compromised the help she gave Peabody..
I will have to go re-read, but my understanding was that Peabody came to Chicago, poked around, left by the same Way, then came to the island with a human. I don't think he took a Way at Pell's and I didn't think Maeve was a candidate for his companion... (I had initially assumed the pair was Cowl and Kumori so I could be getting this wrong)
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Peabody appeared on the island with one other person and the winter spiders he didn’t travel by boat, that means a Way or teleportation, the winter spiders were accosting wizards travelling the Ways, so that is the logical method. Someone high up in Winter was trying to isolate the WC from Chicago. Peabody was photographed coming out of the waypoint in Chicago, no explanation is give as to how he got from there to the Island, but we know a viable route existed from Chicago to Arctis Tor and therefore Maeve. Peabody just needed to get across town to Pell’s. It would be handy if he had an ally resident in Chicago to drop him off on Pell’s Nameless would be ideal, especially if this were his/Cowls long term plan to install Peabody as Warden.
Basically this was Cowls/Nameless long-term plan, one of the reasons he first associated with Kemmler, and then sought Asylum in Winter. Peabody was his mole in the WC working to become Warden and access the lore of the inmates, Maeve ran interference on the Ways through Winter to Chicago and got Peabody to the Island because nemfected.