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Messages - Deadmanwalking

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2536
DFRPG / Re: signators of the accord and accord cities [many questions]
« on: April 04, 2010, 01:17:22 AM »
Where is that coming from?  The opposite of doing everything to hurt humanity, could be doing everything to ignore humanity, because "interference would be an unkindness.  We should let them fight their own battles."  For the Wizards against the monsters, they remained neutral.  They probably remain neutral against others.

Not exactly, they aren’t just the opposite of Winter, they are almost compelled to actively oppose it (Summer Knight and Small Favor both discuss this aspect of the two Courts), which means that when Winter’s plans involve hurting people, Summer tries to save them. And vice versa potentially, but Winter doesn’t exactly help people nearly as often.

Thanks for the quote on that.  That's pretty good evidence.  It's followed, iirc, with Harry saying something like "I already do that", and Luccio saying "Now you'll do it in a Grey Cloak".  It was while she was trying to convince him he had to join.  But not to join the council.  That was to join the Wardens.  The Wardens are a part of the Council, but not even the most significant percentage of them.

Yep, you remember correctly.  :)

And yeah, the Wardens aren’t the whole of the Council, but they are the most active portion of it, with a lot of the rest sitting around doing magical research and other things like that.

The killing of the Law Breakers is good work.  It's like the government that waits until a toxic spill happens and then cleans it up.  It is in their own enlightened self-interest since that is what the Council exists FOR.  It is not done in order to protect people.  If it was to protect people it would be proactive.  They would find potentials everywhere they could and warn them, bring them into the fold.  Create ranks of supporting lower level magic users within the council membership so that they could also have a voice to express their needs, fears and become protected from the other signatories of the Accords.  Instead, they decide they can kill them at will, but don't offer them the most basic levels of protection.

The Council may have been a wonderful organization when it was pulled together, but it isn't anymore.  There are good people in it, but, like Cowl says, it is rotten at the core.  He didn't just mean Peabody, I don't think.

True, to an extent, but I think we’re talking past each other a bit here: I’m in no way saying the Council doesn’t have it’s bad side or doesn’t act in large part due to self interest. So did, say, the U.S. during World War II…but that doesn’t mean they weren’t the good guys compared to what they were facing.

Just throwing in my two cents, the Summer and Winter Courts are neither evil nor good.

Oh, I agree, at least in the moral sense. They’re Fae and thus alien. But again I think our definitions may be slightly off: I referred to the Summer Court as the good guys, in a good guys vs. bad guys context. Their motivations may be alien, but from a human perspective, they’re on the right side.

Like Bob says Summer winning against Winter would usher in a great period of growth and life; which would be better for things like disease than for any kind of “higher” beings. They’re locked in a perpetual contest and either side winning would be extremely bad. Winter may represent a more entropy ridden and deadly system than Summer but they aren’t necessarily bad. Granted most of the ones we see aren’t nearly as fluffy and nice as the gruffs, who were only doing their job, but the eldest queen of winter seemed pleasant enough which seems to imply that others may be as well. The Summer court probably has their share of predators stalking the night as well.

This I don’t agree with. In a discussion of universal balance, sure, yeah, either side’s victory would be awful, because they impact the ecosystem of the earth, and yes, there may be perfectly benign Winter Fae and cruel Summer Fae…but that’s not the normal way of things. In the normal scheme of things, the Summer Court protect and nurture humans in exchange for favors (they like deals every bit as much as Winter), and the Winter Court have men dance to death or women raped for their entertainment. Are the Summer Court every bit as alien, at heart, as Winter? Sure. But they are differently alien, and in a way that is usually less inimical to humanity.

And the White council probably started out with noble intentions but has over time become increasingly self interested. They do good work and fight the good fight when it needs doing but for the most part they just want to safeguard the status quo.

There are actually some sound logical reasons for the Council not to take a more active role in things (Luccio argues them well in Turn Coat), but more importantly, I’m not arguing motivation, I’m arguing what side they’ve aligned themselves with, and they’ve very much decided to protect and defend humanity.

2537
DFRPG / Re: signators of the accord and accord cities [many questions]
« on: April 03, 2010, 09:49:14 PM »
In what way does the Summer court fight against those that prey on humanity?  What large Council actions have we seen to protect the humanity from the monsters?  We've seen Harry, the Paranet, and Elaine. We've seen him call upon Ramirez from time to time to stop magic anti-magical goings on.  But I don't think we've seen the council ever act out in anything but enlightened self-interest.

I actually mentioned that specifically:

The Summer Court opposes the Winter Court at every opportunity, considering who and what the Winter Court are and do, that qualifies as protecting humanity early and often. Their motivations vary somewhat by individual, but they do it. I'd go into more detail, but we honestly don't have alot more detail on the Summer Court. I'll just note that with the exception of Aurora and Titania we've never seen a member of the Summer Court do anything that could be described as evil except under direct orders from a Queen (which they are incapable of disobeying).

The Council, meanwhile, hunts down and stops anyone who breaks the Laws of Magic, which are legitimately bad people preying on humanity for the most part, even Harry admits that. Or did until the Vampire War, anyway, and since then they've been fighting vampires and their allies instead.

Additionally, to quote Dead Beat, Luccio gives a specific rundown of what being a warden means:

"That it will be your job to protect mortals in this area. To be vigilant against supernatural threats in your region, and represent the Council in matters of diplomacy. To aid and assist other wizards who come to you for aid and protection, and, when required, to strike at the enemies of the Council, such as the Red Court and their allies."

The Senior Council may not be the nicest folks on Earth, but protecting mortals from magical threats is explicitly part of a Warden's mandate. Every Warden we've seen takes that seriously, and every one but Harry seems to always get the Council's backing on it, and even Harry usually gets said backing. An organization's leaders and politics aren't the sum of what it is and does. A Police Department whose chief is corrupt and playing politics can still be one of the good guys if the officers take their job seriously and protect people.

2538
DFRPG / Re: signators of the accord and accord cities [many questions]
« on: April 03, 2010, 09:17:13 PM »
No worse than the White Council also defines the a number of less savory groups probably.  Like, "No worse than the Spanish Inquisition", or "No worse than the Courts of Star Chamber".  "It's all for a good cause" could probably be another phrase, just like was used with those other organizations.

Now, now, Harry's predjudices aside, the White Council is a force for good in the world as a whole. They do indeed do horrible, unforgiveable, things on occasion...but they're also some of a very few people who can stand up against the supernatural evil in the world and do something about it. And they do.

I'm not saying either the Summer Court or the White Council are pure champions of all that's good and right, but they are on the right side, fighting against the monsters that prey on humanity. Neither of them preys on humanity for sustenance or for the sake of doing so, and both try and stop some of those that do (the Winter Court and warlocks and black sorcerers, respectively). That makes them the 'good guys' as far as I'm concerned.

Still, you are right in a sense, I picked the White Council deliberately as a comparison as opposed to, say, the Knights of the Cross, because neither the Summer Court nor the White Council are as pure as driven snow, but that doesn't make them the bad guys.

2539
DFRPG / Re: signators of the accord and accord cities [many questions]
« on: April 03, 2010, 08:44:35 PM »
I'd have to say that Summer aren't entirely part of the good guys either.

Actually, by Dresden Universe standards I'd say they are. They're not perfect, certainly, but they're no worse than the White Council. We've seen them at their worst in the books, in large part because our Protagonist has ties to winter, and because Titania has a personal grudge against Harry, but they seem to be honorable, and legitimately much nicer people than the Winter Court.

In any case, whether the Summer Court are the nicest folks ever wasn't really my point, just that the Winter Court is less nice, and probably qualify as evil for most practical purposes.

2540
DFRPG / Re: signators of the accord and accord cities [many questions]
« on: April 03, 2010, 08:29:50 PM »
1]: Not a full one. Monoc Industries is a signatory, as are the White Council, the Denarians, the Archive, apparently several dragons and possibly a few minor gods, as are the parties mentioned below, and likely quite a few others, but these are all I can remember off the top of my head.
1a]: It's all. Jade Court and Black Court have both been explicitly mentioned as following the Accords.
1b]: There are probably individual shapeshifter signatories, but almost certainly nobody with the authority to sign for the shifter community as a whole.
1c]: Yeah, both Courts of the Fae are signatories (hence the name), and I'd say Winter qualifies as evil. And the Denarians being signatories is mentioned in Small Favor.
1d]: As Enjorous stated, no, because they don't want to tie Jim's hands.

2]: Not explicitly, but there's no reason you couldn't have one.
2a]: That's up to you, since it'd be a creation of your game.

2541
DFRPG / Re: The Preorder
« on: April 02, 2010, 07:05:53 PM »
I think people may be being overly optimistic. Selling out on the first day seems unlikely (even if I am going to be buying my copy then). The first week, now? That's a bit more plausible. Sold out before the official release date? That actually sounds extremely likely. Just my two cents.

2542
DFRPG / Re: The Preorder
« on: April 02, 2010, 01:15:54 AM »
I will not refrain from gushing. You are awesome, and I am as happy as a kid at Christmas. I've been looking forward to this game for years now, and it shows all the signs of being well worth the wait. This is great, and you deserve all the thanks in the world.

2543
DFRPG / Re: Dependencies and involuntary change refresh discounts
« on: April 01, 2010, 07:26:50 PM »
So -6 Refresh Cost, total. With -2 worth of powers on all the time, and another -6 worth only during the full moon? A bit pricy for a PC, but then you don't have to play one...

Also, if you skip the Inuman Speed, they're only -4, and IMO a bit more playable.

2544
DFRPG / Re: Spell Maneuvers
« on: March 30, 2010, 03:04:16 AM »
I will second that  ;D

And I'll third it sight unseen, just from the Nevermore chapter, Harry's sheet, and Rick Neal's Q&A. It looks awesome;D

2545
DFRPG / Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
« on: March 29, 2010, 04:00:30 AM »
dont disadvantages Give you points? Atleast that's what I saw in the baltimore book, things like "catch: faerie crap. +2"

Absolutely! But of the listed things, only Human Form is a disadvantage. Making the Were-Form total out at -3. Unless we're missing something, of course.

2546
DFRPG / Re: Wierd Character Ideas
« on: March 27, 2010, 05:58:26 AM »
Yeah, I honestly think we need the rules before we can work out how to do that one mechanically. Cool idea, though.

2547
DFRPG / Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
« on: March 26, 2010, 01:43:37 AM »
Wow looks like I hit a nerve here I want to quote my own original post so you can all read it again. My intention was never to try to create a prohibition for the whole game or even the forums what I posted was a challenge to our collective creativity.
In this post I was asking for more not less. I was trying to break a pattern in increase the variety of inspiration that we have available to us. What annoyed me is that the majority of the response was to defend the pattern instead of taking up the challenge. Since There have been a few good examples. My next post will be one or two examples of my own. 

I, at least, get that, but whatever your intent, your post came off as an attack on all characters like the ones presented. Which just isn't fair, and is likely to offend anyone who's ever seriously played such a character. You need to work on your phrasing.

2548
DFRPG / Re: Wierd Character Ideas
« on: March 26, 2010, 01:39:47 AM »
What class would work best?

Paladin, Cleric, or other Divine class, because building it actually works out right (Champion of God package plus Sponsored Magic with a focus on healing works quite well) or a mundane class like Fighter or Rogue (built with mundane stunts and maybe an Item of Power or three). Wizards and other Arcane classes would run into major issues with conflicting magic systems and the Laws of Magic.

Also, that sounds both hilarious and awesome. Particularly if the original player is another PC with magic of some sort. Imagine Harry's barbarian come to life...

2549
DFRPG / Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
« on: March 25, 2010, 08:49:31 PM »
Oh well I tried.

Welcome to Hot Topic were you can be different just like us.  :'(

Chill, man. There are plenty of characters who fit none of your stereotypes, your tone was just completely wrong for getting people to talk about them. Heck, look at the Dresden Files Asia recruitment thread, there are half a dozen characters in it, and none of them are really in either of your categories. Or look at the Weird Character Ideas thread, or re-read the Dresden Files themselves (which include the Alphas, Michael, Toot-toot, Murphy, Mouse, and probably a dozen more who don't fall under your stereotypes).

2550
DFRPG / Re: Question/Thought about sponsored magic
« on: March 22, 2010, 08:43:16 PM »
Is Faerie Magic not a sub-type of Sponsored Magic? It is listed separately on Rick Neal's page...hmm...this bears investigating.

I'm pretty sure it is, but listed seperately as a notable example, just like being Summer or Winter Knight is a specialized form of Emissary of Power but listed seperately.

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