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Messages - Deadmanwalking

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16
I have now added Mythic Mental Toughness to the Senior Council, The Archive, Eldest Brother Gruff, and Cowl.

Corpsetaker, Thorned Namishiel, and Nicodemus have been given Supernatural Mental Toughness.

Grevane, Morgan, Tessa, and the Summer and Winter Ladies have all been given Inhuman Mental Toughness, as (on reflection) has Luccio.

Of all these, I've only added a Catch to Nicodemus. The rest I don't think we have evidence for.

17
Well, uh, hello to anyone reading this. I've been away from these boards a long while, but I'm starting a new Dresden Files game in about a month (which always makes me more inclined to return to a forum), and these forums seem to have slowed down to a point I can easily keep up with them. So...I'm back for at least a while.

I'll probably be updating the builds in this thread somewhat based on the rules in The Paranet Papers (mostly, adding supernatural or Mythic Mental Toughness as appropriate, but a few other things seem likely to get adjusted as well), and have already changed all the links in the first post so they work with the new website.

EDIT: Added Mythic Mental Toughness to The Merlin, Eldest Brother Gruff, and Cowl and Inhuman Mental Toughness to Morgan. The other Senior Council members, Grevane, and Corpsetaker, will be receiving some as well, though I'm still internally debating amounts (the Senior Council will all have at least Supernatural). Luccio, I'm pretty sure, lost a level of this in the body swap. I'm still considering whether that leaves her with Inhuman (meaning she had Supernatural before), and whether Peabody's mind manipulation may have damaged her a bit, dropping it down to nothing even if that were the case.

18
Yup, no reason you couldn't do that. Because Deceit is already the skill for that it's only an advantage if you're using Discipline or need to look like them really fast,but there's no reason it wouldn't work.

19
DFRPG / Re: Making effective PCs that aren't wizards?
« on: March 15, 2013, 07:36:38 PM »
I...I've created some horrid fishy abomination. I'm...proud? Appalled? I'm not really sure.

On a more serious note, I'd like to add a clarification to this. As I understand the rules, you have 2 Evocation Focus Item Slots and 2 Thaumaturgy Focus Item Slots, so you can only get +2 to offensive control. The other 2 slots need to be spent on bonuses for Control or Power of your Rituals, or for Enchanted Items.

Harry's 3 Evocation Focus Items argue that you most certainly can do that as a Wizard, as do the Item Slots descriptions listed under Evocation and Thaumaturgy. The rules-text on Channeling and Ritual is a lot more restrictive, though, so it's possible that the particular build in question would have issues...albeit those would be easily solved by buying a level of Refinement.

20
DFRPG / Re: Making effective PCs that aren't wizards?
« on: March 15, 2013, 12:58:20 PM »
The problem with Evocation is that it's not very good defensively (the numbers are potentially high, but you need a different Focus Item for it, and it takes an action), meaning you're relying on a non-peak skill for defense, and you can't do it very long. The character you hypothesize has a base of Legendary to hit, sure, but his attacks are only Weapon 3-6 and, as you note, he's pretty much limited to 4 attacks, and he's a huge target with only Good defenses at best, and no Toughness abilities. Now, if you use his remaining Refresh properly you can plug those holes (defensive Enchanted Items are some of the best defenses available in the game)...but that will use up their remaining Refresh, and is necessary to avoid just getting taken out as a glass cannon.

A physically potent character could easily have Great (or, with True Strike, Superb) attack at Weapon 7, Superb defenses, and Toughness powers and he could have them all day long, actually, you could do that with only 5 Refresh as, say, a Changeling with a magic sword:

Skills: Great Weapons, still has all his other skills free.

Stunt: Footwork (as the Fists Stunt, but for Weapons)

Powers:

Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Cod Iron [+3]

Item of Power (Sword) [+2] effecting;
Supernatural Strength [-2]
True Strike [-1, as the Sword of the Cross power of the same name]

There, quick example. And that's not even getting into non-combat characters and how useful they can potentially be. Or the potential brokenness of Incite Emotion. Or how potentially awesome Beast Change is. Or a host of other things. Wizards are indeed cool and powerful...but they aren't unbeatable, or the only useful things around.

21
DFRPG / Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« on: March 14, 2013, 02:56:25 PM »
The first is actually true, but the feeling within our group was that it felt too expensive that you need to buy all the bits and bobs separately.

Well, are you including Human Form? That's a pretty universal rebate for shapeshifters.

And where do you draw the line? Do you need to buy Claws for a wereraven in order to actually have them even though you are a bird, etc. Or a beak. Or a trunk for were-elephant (ok that's a joke but you get the meaning I hope).

The powers are purely mechanical, so you draw the line at the mechanics: Does the Raven fly? Then it needs wings. Does it get the +4 stealth and al assorted other benefits and disadvantages of being Diminutive Size? Then it gets that power. Does it get the +2 damage from Claws? Then it has that power. A Raven with only Wings, for example, would do normal unarmed damage with it's attacks and would be big enough that Diminutive size didn't apply (a very reasonable idea). One with Claws does more damage, one with diminutive Size is susceptible to all that stuff.

I can see the balance-issue being the most pressing one, but luckily I have awesome players so we can handle that on the fly (pun intended).

I strongly advise against this. Even one Refresh makes a huge difference in this game. Giving it out free is a bad idea on par with giving out free levels in D&D.

I acknowledge that I'm on a thin ice here as a total DFRPG newbie, but this bit about werecreatures just didn't feel "logical" to any of us. Or maybe it's the baggage how more familiar systems approach werecreatures..

You're thinking of it wrong. One power almost never defines a creature type, which is what you're suggesting. And being able to turn into an animal is cool enough to be a creature type, not just a single trick.

Anyways, thanks for your input.

Always happy to be of assistance.  :)

22
DFRPG / Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« on: March 14, 2013, 01:45:37 PM »
Regarding the were-creatures.. I hear what you are saying and that's how I read it too, though it doesn't make sense to me. Also this "You take on the shape and appearance of the beast.." suggest to me that you take the actual shape (including size), but obviously there's room for interpretation. I'll leave it at that as I'm not here to argue about the rules and I'm sure there are reasons for the system to work like that (most likely game balancing ones).

Sure, you look like a Raven. Or whatever. But appearances aren't everything. You want the actual mechanical benefits of other powers, you have to buy them. And yeah, game balance is definitely the primary concern with that.

And the good thing about RPG's is that you can change things you don't like. :) I'm tempted to make the beast change a tad more comprehensive (and more expensive to buy).

The thing is, at the moment, for practical purposes, Beast Change already does cost more, and is modular, by the simple expedient of including other powers if you pay for them, and only if you pay for them. Any additions to that are likely to be either unbalancingly overpowered or utterly pointless.

23
DFRPG / Re: Blood drinker interpretation
« on: March 14, 2013, 01:40:30 PM »
It's not quite that clearly worded, but that's probably the right interpretation, yeah.

24
DFRPG / Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« on: March 14, 2013, 12:02:16 PM »
What Vairelome said. On #2 specifically, giving out other powers just because a player has Beast Change is like giving everyone who takes the Blood Drinker power Inhuman Strength for free because vampires are super strong. It's true of the creature type, but that just means that creatures of that type need to buy additional powers, not that they get them for free.

You could take Beast Change (Tiger), Beast Change (Raven) and Beast Change (Gibbon). Going by your ruling, the first would be by far the best one to pick, since it gets you Claws, Inhuman Strength, and probably Inhuman Speed for free (Tigers all have those things, after all), while the Raven gets only Wings and Diminutive Size, and the Gibbon gets nothing beyond the skill-swap. So, to avoid that problem, the mechanics are effect-based: All the power gives you is skill-swapping and passing for that creature. You want other stuff you need to pay for it (though you can, of course, use Human Form to get something of a discount).

25
DFRPG / Re: Force of Will
« on: March 09, 2013, 03:18:14 AM »
A -1 Power that lets you grapple with Conviction, without the need for an invoked Aspect, sounds right. I mean, there's already a Stunt for Blocking, but Grappling is different (and much more like what the power does) and sounds good for this.

26
DFRPG / Re: Social Conflict Examples
« on: March 08, 2013, 09:29:13 PM »
Well... that's good to hear.  :)
Like many folks, I have a group of D&D-style players trying to make the jump, and they're looking for hard rules.  The Social skills seem solid, but the Social conflics seems to be very fluid, which makes sense, but is hard to teach.

No more fluid than most social rules. Bear in mind Maneuvers and Invoking for effect and you should be good.

Those all make sense.  Do you have any stories of how they worked in play?

None of those are actually an example from play per se. All are just situations that are appropriate. I have had PCs bargain for information with a contact and interrogate a capture sorcerer, though. Both of those worked okay.

So, what does the Social stress track actually represent?  Does it change depending on the scene?
The book seems to switch it between your reputation among your peers, and your ability to put up with intimidation.  Which seem like very different things to me.

What does the physical stress track represent, being tired or being actively injured? The answer is both. Same with Social Stress. As someone mentioned, what social stress really represents is your composure and ability to keep your cool. Bad reputation, flipping out, being scared, all those are examples of Consequences you might take from losing said cool.

This makes sense according to the Social Conflict chapter, and a bit of common sense from how the skills are written up.  I just wish there were some more examples of which is appropriate when.

That'd be nice, yeah. Though all of what I list is explicit in the skills chapter. What situation were you thinking of?

Okay that brings up one of my confusions:  Discipline is the go-to skill for Mental defense, but it can also be used as a Social defense?

Occasionally, and mostly only vs. Intimidation, but yeah. Mental conflict is actually pretty rare, so it's hardly unbalanced.

I think there was even a description of how a social situation can cause Mental stress, namely because of the relationship between the two (abusive parent/spouse).

Yes. Like I said, extreme situations.

Also, it seems odd (in comparison to Physical conflicts) that Rapport can be a go-to for Defense (like Athletics) AND be an offense as well.  Or how attacking with Presence is comparable to attacking with Endurance?

Well, you can attack and defend with Fists and Weapons, too Hell, there's even a Stunt that makes Fists universal on defense. And Presence isn't Endurance any more than Conviction is. It's force of personality, and

Yeah, it was the slight contradictions between the skill descriptions and the Social conflict explanation that confused me.  Not to mention the comparison to Physical skills, which are more cut and dry.

What contradictions?

Here's another question to throw out there...

What about mixing conflicts? 
The most common one: when in the middle of a Physical conflict, you throw an Intimidation attack.  Does that works against your Social or Mental track?

I know all the Spellcasters want it to be Social (we want to cast spells with Mental stress).

It's implied that Discipline is what to roll for defense, but you'd still take Social stress.  But if your Social track represents your reputation, not your ability to withstand direct insults with no one watching.

As mentioned above, it'd be Social, and represent you getting angry or scared and losing your cool. Which is why Discipline could be used to resist it, at least potentially.

27
The latter. Just some grunts with the stats from the book for some additional muscle.

Well, summoning and binding has three steps:

#1: Create Warding Circle (Complexity 8-10 or so to really ensure the Spectre can't escape...this part, and only this part, probably only needs to be done once. Definitely only once if you add in some duration.)
#2: Summon Spectre (Complexity 6 or so)
#3: Bind Spectre (Complexity sufficient to take them out...call it 12 shifts if they can't take Moderate or worse Consequences)

You could potentially do Step 3 en masse as a Zone Wide spell for 2 more shifts (so 14 or so)...but that involves summoning up a whole bunch of Spectres and not having them bound for at least a bit.

28
Nope! No explicit cap. And no explicit difficulty to summon anything. Summoning doesn't work like that.

Summoning is basically a really good magical Contacts roll...so the caps have to do with what you want of them, how hard they are to find the contact info on in the first place,and similar issues. Think of it the same way you'd think of hiring a mundane army/posse if you had high Contacts and Resources. there are numerous potential logistical issues, but no hard difficulty per se.

Now, binding is a slightly different matter, that's effectively a Thaumaturgy spell to take someone or something out or inflict consequences on it and works accordingly. That'll work based on your and their Conviction.

So...do you want to just summon up some spectres and bargain with them, or do you want to bind them to service? The latter is a much longer and harder process...but does get you your muscle free of charge.

29
DFRPG / Re: So I have to ask...
« on: March 07, 2013, 03:05:05 AM »
There are fossilized squirrel-like critters from millions of years ago. How hardcore would that be? I'm envisioning Monty Python and the Holy Grail only with a squirrel instead of a rabbit and a drumbeat in the background...

30
DFRPG / Re: Social Conflict Examples
« on: March 07, 2013, 02:57:01 AM »
I'm having trouble figuring out how Social Conflict is supposed to work.

You are not alone, many have this issue.

What is an appropriate situation for it to be used?

An interrogation, a bargaining session at a Faerie market, a treaty negotiation, an attempt to seduce a Freeholding Lord who doesn't wish to be seduced but does want to know why you're trying. Y'know, any social stuff where two parties are both trying to beat the other at something.

What skills can cause Stress at any given time?

Deceit, Intimidation, and Rapport, mostly, though Presence can do so sometimes as well. Resources can also be used when bribing or offering to bribe people. Contacts can be used as an attack skill if doing a whispering campaign or something like that, but not in person.

When is it Social or Mental Stress?

Only supernatural powers, actual torture or a few other really extreme things are Mental Stress. It's almost always Social instead. If you have any doubt which, it's almost certainly social.

What skills defend against which?

Empathy can defend against everything, as can Rapport. Deceit can defend against most stuff, but is modified by Rapport when doing so, and generally precludes Deceit attacks when used this way. Discipline and Presence can occasionally be used when appropriate (almost always only vs. Intimidation...though Discipline might work to resist seduction, too). Several other skills like Presence can also be used for Blocks, but not usually defensive rolls per se.

YS seems to be very loose with this, and doesn't give the best examples.  So I'd like to hear how you've used it in your games.

It's a little shaky on the first part, but absolutely clear on the others if you read the skill descriptions (and the social combat section) thoroughly.

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