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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SintraEdrien on December 07, 2017, 02:20:33 PM
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So, WoJ has it that Mab is "clearing her debts", balancing her scales and paying back favors to get free from obligations.
What happens if there is a tiny favor that she owes to a mortal who then dies before repayment?
How could this be? I am positing a mortal human who: is an only child, whose parents are deceased, whose grandparents are deceased, who has no aunts/uncles (never existed or deceased without issue), who has died without essentially any other living family.
His material estate would (usually) be escheated to whichever unit of government of his residence/locality/citizenship handles such things, but what about a favor owed by Mab? If he had had descendents, I think the favor would be passed down as part of the bloodline "inheritance", as it were, the same way that the favor owed by Thomas to Cat Sith is still owed to whichever entity becomes the new Cat Sith, but where does the the favor owed to a deceased childless mortal go? Mab is still bound to pay it back somehow!
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Even if the nearest blood relation is so far that mortal inheritance law has lost track of them, there has to be someone. A 12'th cousin twice removed, or something.
Given the importance of favours to the Fae, I would expect they (all of them, not just the Queens) have a limited form of intellectus covering who they owe favours to. Sort of like how they just know the laws of their court instinctually.
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I don't have the answer (this would make a great convention question for Jim), but I think there has to be some mechanism of clearing the debt. Obligation is a part of the Fae's nature. I'm sure a way has been worked out to cover this potential scenario.
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Me neither, this sounds like one of the difficult and nearly inpossible scenerios.
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Don't forget the transfer of debt, like how Harry gave his owed favor to Charity in PG.
If Mab owes something and CAN'T repay it, it's possible for someone else to take on that debt.
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Perhaps the God of that person's afterlife inherits the favor ultimately. So Hades, Satan, God, etc all could inherit depending. They also could divvy up the favor by their rules.
So perhaps the soul in some instances would indeed be paid back, or allowed the opportunity to be paid back at some point.
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Can favors be paid back in the afterlife?
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Can favors be paid back in the afterlife?
Well, Harry sort of did it.
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Can favors be paid back in the afterlife?
Which afterlife? According to some the afterlife is full of payback.
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Dealer's choice.
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So in order to repay a favor you have to act in accordance with the debt-holder's wishes. If the debt-holder dies and the debt is not able to be passed along his/her bloodlines it might be possible for Mab to clear her debt by acting in accordance with the debt-holder's perceived wishes (governed by the same internal rules that apply to all Fae). For example, maybe Mab could pay a wergild to a charity supported by the debt-holder.
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You should just mention fairy debts in your testament.
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God, imagine what someone like Marcone could do if he decides to go into the Faerie mortgage business and begins purchasing everyone's debts. Suddenly, instead of Mab owing ten thousand favors to ten thousand people, she owes ten thousand favors' worth of obligation to one man.
Are the Fae the only ones subject to this? Would, say, Hades be compelled to repay a debt?
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Even the RPG doesn't have an explanation for transference of debts after debt.
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Are the Fae the only ones subject to this? Would, say, Hades be compelled to repay a debt?
I don't know if Hades would be compelled to fulfill a debt in the same way the Fae are since it is intrinsic to their nature. However, the "old world" seems to be built on courtesy, host rights, debts/obligations. Although Hades may not be compelled by nature, it would be very bad form to not honor a debt. I see the rest of society turning on him if that were to happen.
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I don't know if Hades would be compelled to fulfill a debt in the same way the Fae are since it is intrinsic to their nature. However, the "old world" seems to be built on courtesy, host rights, debts/obligations. Although Hades may not be compelled by nature, it would be very bad form to not honor a debt. I see the rest of society turning on him if that were to happen.
Sure, decorum may compel him. Even Kincaid was pretty gung-ho about honoring Harry's debt, and he's not a particularly upright citizen.
But Fae seem to gain power in concert with obligation; the whole "power has purpose" speech from Mother Summer indicates, to me, that their entire hierarchy is determined by power, which is proportional to obligation. Lea claims similarly that her status upgrade after the receipt of the athame (treacherous though it was) increased her obligation in turn to Mab.
Maybe it's like DC, which is held together with backroom deals and blackmail (THIS IS A JOKE. DO NOT BE OFFENDED BY MY REMARK, WHICH IS AN ATTEMPT AT HUMOR, AND MAY IN FACT BE ONLY SLIGHTLY MORE HUMOROUS THAN THIS DISCLAIMER).
I'm just wondering if someone could buy and sell intangible debts from other entities. Imagine what a few Wall Street types could do to organize these things into the supernatural equivalent of financial instruments.
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Or the occasional "deal with the devil."
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There already is a "broker" for the transfer of debt ....
The Order (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0304711/)
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There already is a "broker" for the transfer of debt ....
The Order (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0304711/)
Never seen that movie. Any good?
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I wouldn't say it's an "A" list movie, but I enjoyed it.
It's kind of like End of Days (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0146675/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_27).
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Recall that Harry was owed a debt by the Summer Court in SmFv and if Gruff killed him, Harry implies the debt won't ever be paid back, creating a black mark on the court.
So if someone with no living relatives died, I think it would be a mark Mab has to endure.
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Recall that Harry was owed a debt by the Summer Court in SmFv and if Gruff killed him, Harry implies the debt won't ever be paid back, creating a black mark on the court.
So if someone with no living relatives died, I think it would be a mark Mab has to endure.
I wonder if, in this type of situation, doing something for someone associated with the person might not alleviate some of the burden of an unpaid debt.
After all, Harry transferred his debt to Charity, and Summer was able to use that to help get Molly back in PG.
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I wonder if, in this type of situation, doing something for someone associated with the person might not alleviate some of the burden of an unpaid debt.
After all, Harry transferred his debt to Charity, and Summer was able to use that to help get Molly back in PG.
True, but that required an action on Harry's part. Harry specifically transferred the debt via oral agreement. If he's dead, can that debt ever be repaid? Perhaps if Harry died and became a true ghost (discounting Ghost Story), Summer may have rendered service to him, clearing his debt?
It's odd, because assets usually default to the next of kin, but not all debt is passed on—outstanding accounts are settled with the deceased assets, if they have any, and the remainder is divided among the estate. If someone dies upside on their mortgage, for instance, and doesn't have enough assets to cover the debt, the estate is not responsible for paying the rest (though the bank gets the house).
Maybe Harry should consider supernatural life insurance now that he has Maggie to worry about.
By the way, I just realized that Harry's apartment burning down was foreshadowed since Book Five, when he wrote down (and told us) about his fairy cleaning squad. It didn't matter anymore, because his house had already been arson-ed when he wrote it (sad face emoticon). I love in-universe justifications for things like that. Maybe his new pad can contract a fresh Fresh Squadron, but pay them with pizza. Or, I dunno, celery.
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I was thinking in the case where there is no next of kin. Kind of like if someone dies and all their assets go to the Church, because they have no one else. Maybe there's a Fae equivalent.
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I was thinking in the case where there is no next of kin. Kind of like if someone dies and all their assets go to the Church, because they have no one else. Maybe there's a Fae equivalent.
The church? Do you live in a theocracy? :)