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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on November 17, 2021, 04:23:47 PM
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How were the serious beings contained in Deamonreach contained in the first place? Once they were aware of what would happen to them if they went to Demonreach why would any serious bad guy be willing to go there?
Was there one massive snatch early in DR’s history? Seriously, how did the prison get filled?
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There is no official book or WoJ on this so I can only guess that most were bound elsewhere and transferred to the island to be held there.
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There is a huge summoning ring on Demonreach, it was shown in Cold Days.
If you know the true names of the being you are targeting you just summon them.
Ethnui obviously isn’t the Titans True Name and Harry didn’t have decades to find it out and compose a summoning ceremony. He could do a binding with the name Ethnui with the aid of the Spear and at Demonreach’s ultimate extension.
The other point is we don’t know what the Crown of Thorns can do, I have posited that it is a god level set of thorn manacles. If Harry can figure out what it can do (and it surprised me he had figured out the placard) and it is what I have posited, then Harry can go out and use it to depower potential foes, to transport them to Demonreach, whip it off and put them down, as an alternative to creating a summoning.
Harry is actually good at Summoning, Mother Winter, The Summer Queen, and the Winter Lady were all summoned, as was the Goblin King. He didn’t think he stood a chance summoning Ethnui, so didn’t try. He disn’t Have time to ascertain what he needed.
I suspect though after taking some one down he can control the released and summon them back easily via the summoning circle should he need to. Ethnui is is crude prison parlance Harry’s “Bitch”.
Summoning Marcone/Namshiel Jim has given us clues all along -in his description of the character, a stack of dollar bills for the colour of his eyes, a luxury yachting cap for the yachting tan (preferably owned by Marone), an expensively tailored suit made by Marcone’s tailor ro Marcone’s measurements , a well balanced throwing knife used to kill, a tiger for its soul and Helen Beckitt’s daughter at the centre. Harry knows this after the soul gaze and investigation of Marcone over many years.
Ever wonder why Jim repeats certain things in Harry’s descriptions of characters? I bet it is actually Harry’s subconscious making the assessment for summoning and binding. His subconscious is much smarter than his conscious.
Marcone isn’t Marcone’s real name, when Harry finds that out he can summon him, with everything he knows about Marcone, and with him Namshiel, from Demonreach.
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Marcone isn’t Marcone’s real name, when Harry finds that out he can summon him, with everything he knows about Marcone, and with him Namshiel, from Demonreach.
Oh I believe it is, Harry has called him by his first name as well. I think if Marcone had another name Harry would have found out what it was when they had that soul gaze so many years ago.
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How were the serious beings contained in Deamonreach contained in the first place? Once they were aware of what would happen to them if they went to Demonreach why would any serious bad guy be willing to go there?
Was there one massive snatch early in DR’s history? Seriously, how did the prison get filled?
It took the combined effort of a bunch of demigods and wizards to get one Titan into the crystal. Do you buy into the idea that you can just summon some of them, assuming that you knew their true name? I'll offer some ideas that don't even rise to a WAG.
Go smack some demigod on the nose and then run, And when he chases you lead him back to the circle. Which would make the circle a bear trap. See Jeremiah Johnson for details.
Go to the future and build the empty prison in multiple times and then start the apocalypse. As you trap them you use the power of the ones you trap to snatch the rest, rinse and repeat. Bonus points if you create a timeline where they no longer exist.
That's all I got.
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Why yes I do using the full power of Demonreach (which Harry can’t yet and the right info.
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I get the impression that summoning is more knocking on the door than forcing an appearance.
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Why yes I do using the full power of Demonreach (which Harry can’t yet and the right info.
I'll state the obvious and say that if the prison is empty then you can't use the full power.I get the impression that summoning is more knocking on the door than forcing an appearance.
It didn't appear that way in Dead Beat.
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It didn't appear that way in Dead Beat.
It did in Cold Days. Harry wondered if Titania would actually show.
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It depends upon how perfect and powerful the summoning is. The mention of a name ‘Hades’ is enough to get attention, but to command appearance and bind requires much more planning and thought.
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It did in Cold Days. Harry wondered if Titania would actually show.
Harry doesn't know Titania's true name = knock on door. He had a book telling him the Erlking's true name = command to appear.
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Harry doesn't know Titania's true name = knock on door. He had a book telling him the Erlking's true name = command to appear.
We don’t know that with certainty. That is speculation at best.
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Controlling an inhuman being via its Name is a shady area of magic, only one step removed from taking over the will of another mortal. According to the White Council's Seven Laws of Magic, that's a capital crime—and they make zero-tolerance policies look positively lenient.
By Summer Knight it is pretty much fleshed out as canon, subject to the needs of the story. Although he almost never refers back to it, the method of calling out to Toot for instance is laid out in Storm Front. If you know the name you can make a connection. If you have the will you can compel the creature you are summoning. The circle traps them. This is the basis for summoning the Earl King in Dead Beat. The text of Die Lied der Erlking is his true name.
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Really big sticky tape they try to run over and get trapped
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Oh I believe it is, Harry has called him by his first name as well. I think if Marcone had another name Harry would have found out what it was when they had that soul gaze so many years ago.
Read the Even Hand short story, Marcone flatly tells the reader (i.e. us) that his real name isn't John Marcone.
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Aha thought so, it’s been a while since I read Even Hand.
I am not even convinced Harry Dresden is named Harry Dresden, his name comes from the stage names of magicians, not their real names, so why would he reveal it so casually in the first page of Storm Front only to make a big deal of it later?
Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden may be
Eric Bouton Kotkin Dresden
I believe Ferrovax only enunciates Dresden in Grave Peril, I don’t have the book to hand.
Remember all Harry/Eric’s records were removed from the system when he was taken by Justin, Justin may have known his true name but he wasn’t able to enslave Harry so I suspect no, it was likely a private joke between Harry and his dad, his stage name and his real name.
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What is a "true" name? What is on a birth certificate somewhere or the name you are called all of
your life?
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What is a "true" name? What is on a birth certificate somewhere or the name you are called all of
your life?
Do you have faith in your birth certificate?
I think it is the name or names you have accepted or maybe those bestowed on you strongly enough but I think in the end you have to accept the name. Chauncey needed to hear the name from Harry’s own mouth. You do not get far with someone’s birth certificate.
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In Harry’s case it is the name his father bestowed upon him, not a birth certificate or other official document, or even what his friends call him now. It is the core of his identity.
With Marcone it may be similar, we see no family but it is what they would have called him.
Harry has picked up on this I think, his use of “John” in dealing with Marcone may be the truth, and that needles Marcone his real first name is likely John not Jonny or Johnnie (both of which are used in the files, and yes I think that is deliberate) it’s his last name which is assumed. Marcone is an Italian patronymic, I do not think Marcone is actually of Italian descent, but his father may have been named Mark or Marcus, and may have been from a military family as he is considered to have had military training. Navy given the “boaters tan” oft referred to.
I think the Tiger Soul is significant, and it is important, Harry only knows this as part of a Soulgaze. The only US military unit John could have served in given his age and associated with Tigers would be Attack Squadron 65 (VA-65), nicknamed The World Famous Fighting Tigers, which was disestablished in 1993, seven years before Storm Front.
Enough info for Harry to find Marcone’s true name?
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What is a "true" name? What is on a birth certificate somewhere or the name you are called all of
your life?
Jim doesn't say. Two possible ways to look at it using Marcone. The first that it is the name he was given at birth. The other would be that his true name is the one he took, the one who he is. I prefer a combo of the two.There are two parts of magic you have to understand to catch a faery. One of them is the concept of true names. Everything in the whole world has its own name. Names are unique sounds and cadences of words that are attached to one specific individual—sort of like a kind of theme music. If you know something's name, you can associate yourself with it in a magical sense, almost in the same way a wizard can reach out and touch someone if he possesses a lock of their hair, or fingernail clippings, or blood. If you know something's name, you can create a magical link to it, just as you can call someone up and talk to them if you know their phone number. Just knowing the name isn't good enough, though: You have to know exactly how to say it. Ask two John Franklin Smiths to say their names for you, and you'll get subtle differences in tone and pronunciation, each one unique to its owner. Wizards tend to collect names of creatures, spirits, and people like some kind of huge Rolodex. You never know when it will come in handy.
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Do you have faith in your birth certificate?
I think it is the name or names you have accepted or maybe those bestowed on you strongly enough but I think in the end you have to accept the name. Chauncey needed to hear the name from Harry’s own mouth. You do not get far with someone’s birth certificate.
But that's my point, what is a "true" name? The one written on your birth certificate or the one you answer to? They aren't always the same.. "George" maybe written on your birth certificate, but "Stinky" is the only name you've ever answered to or have been called, so which is the "true" name?
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It's also important to remember that your True Name can and does change over time. So just because growing up, you were called one thing doesn't mean that 50 years later your True Name is still that old one.
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Do you have faith in your birth certificate?
I think it is the name or names you have accepted or maybe those bestowed on you strongly enough but I think in the end you have to accept the name. Chauncey needed to hear the name from Harry’s own mouth. You do not get far with someone’s birth certificate.
Especially what happens if, say, your birth certificate and baptismal certificate do not exactly agree? Like mine? LOL!
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But that's my point, what is a "true" name? The one written on your birth certificate or the one you answer to? They aren't always the same.. "George" maybe written on your birth certificate, but "Stinky" is the only name you've ever answered to or have been called, so which is the "true" name?
OK, who else thought of the old Odd Couple episode with Oscar talking to the card game boys?
"Homer?"
"You think my mother named me Speed???"
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Or like thousands who immigrated here, my grandfather, he was told to change his name to a more "American" form of it, and it has been used by the family ever since.
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Or like thousands who immigrated here, my grandfather, he was told to change his name to a more "American" form of it, and it has been used by the family ever since.
Going back in my family records our sur-name was much more germanic when we arrived and it was “Americanized” in two generations.
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Going back in my family records our sur-name was much more germanic when we arrived and it was “Americanized” in two generations.
From the story I was told, it happened to my grandfather fairly quickly, what is weird, is the original form of his surname is fairly common now and is considered very American. I think movie stars and others in show business fit the question of what is their true name best. Very common for people to get their names changed when they go into show business, if they become famous/popular, in the eyes of the public, that is their true name, not the original.