Bob specifically mentioned that it had to do with timing. Not relationships.

Guess I need to go re-read my Dresden stories... <sigh> 

<heh>  Over in the Ars Magica rpg community, the same debate comes up regularly. 

There are plenty of ways that one could get wealthy relatively quickly (in either game-universe).  In the Dresdenverse, the key catch (it seems to me) is that the Universe itself is a moral place.  You get Lawbreaker Stunts even if the WCouncil has no idea you've done anything wrong.  And if you want to get rich via magic... well, you have to really believe.  You have to take one of the fundamental creative forces of the universe, and use it for something as banal and petty as getting wealthy... and really believe that this is the right thing to do. 

That's... pretty pathetic, morally speaking. 

The older you get (in general, I know there are exceptions) the more conservative you get.  The Council is grotesquely rich because they have invested -- conservatively, but consistently -- for a very VERY VERY LONG TIME.  The only reason they don't own the whole world is that they aren't the only investors with the same sort of continuity & track record.  Given Salic Law and standard mortal inheritance, I'm sure that there are "wizarding families" (to use something from the Other Harry) who are also quite wealthy, albeit not on WCouncil scope.

Given how long-lived wizards tend to be, I expect that mundane methods of building wealth -- conservative, long-range investment strategies -- probably suffice, even for individuals who aren't inheriting from generations of wizards before them...

However, if a player wants to GetRichQuick(tm), remind them that it's easy:  just spend their advancement points on Resources, maybe grabbing a Resources Stunt to enhance matters.  If they do *NOT* buy the Resources, then you're afraid -- as GM -- that Something Will Happen to their GRQ scheme, and "somehow" they won't have the benefits that high Resources gives them.  If they want stories that lead to improved Resources, go for it!  Possibly even handing out the Resources *AS* the reward, not as points for them to spend on Resources.

A serious problem we had with Fate when we started was that, like other RPGs;...well here is the metaphor I commonly use; A veteran soldier in your game should have superior skills to the idiot I was just forced to graduate from his basic infantry course two months ago. PLUS; he should still be a functional human being off the battlefield. if a basic soldier IRL is competant enough in 4-6 weapons to qualify, can navigate, apply an bandage, carry a backpack a long ways, use a radio and still have a good chance of being a decent driver, 10% chance at a trade, 20% chance at knowing computers, and so on; a veteran character, should start with that and build on it.

We found it very, very hard to create a pure mortal who could fight and function out of combat in fate at less that a submerged level and even then there were glaring shotcomings.

Let's take your veteran soldier:
Skill 4: Guns
Skill 3: Fists, Athletics
Skill 2: Drive, [Something Civvie (but militarily useful in support/logistics)], [Something Com-Spec, Mil-Tech, etc]
Skill 1: 2-3 Civvie Skills (at least one of which, and maybe all, have SOME use in the military), + 1-2 Military Skills (maybe with some civvie uses)
2 Stunts for Combat; 1-2 stunts useful in the military AND as a civilian; (maybe) 1 Civvie stunt
He is, frankly, pretty kick-ass on a mortal-only battlefield.  He's far from incompetent in civilian life.  When he de-mob's, he can go straight into some physical job leveraging off his Athletics, or maybe use Vet's Benefits to ramp up one of those Skill-2 skills (i.e. most ComSpec/MilTech jobs have direct civvie analogues) by a level or two & become pretty kick-ass on the civilian front, too.

Yes, he's in over his head if you throw him into a Submerged game!  But then again, the other PC's shouldn't be Submerged, either -- their Skills and Stunts will be on par with his.  Even if they're supernatural, his Guns, Fists/Athletics, and surplus of FatePoints should have him holding his own, on AND off the battlefield.

Just out of Basic, he probably looked like:
Skill 3: Guns or Athletics
Skill 2: Athletics or Guns, Fists
Skill 1: Drive, [Something Civvie (but militarily useful in support/logistics)], [Something Com-Spec, Mil-Tech, etc]
1 Combat Stunt, 1 Military/Civilian crossover stunts, 1 Civvie-centric stunt

Yeah, he's relatively "weak" in the Dresdenverse... but one good roll with Guns:3 using an M-16 will take out most foes, even supernatural ones.  And this guy is On the Beach!  As a civvie, he's not much... hired to do unskilled/semi-skilled physical labor off his Athletics, likely.

That...is a freaking awesome theory.

It is, isn't it?  Like I said elsewhere in-thread, I don't think it's a true theory, because I don't think it holds up to closer scrutiny.  But I love it anyhow!

The idea that the WCouncil has so screwed themselves over, applying this massive "Now you become a sociopath" magical whammy atop the already-corruptive nature of that kind of magic... or maybe that they have gotten corrupted themselves... or maybe that the "Black Council" is actually so old that they have suborned the execution process and some portion of the time the executioners ARE members of the BCouncil who ARE doing it as a blood-rite... hrm... that one actually holds up:  it isn't ALWAYS a blood rite, only when the BCouncil can arrange for their moles/shills/dupes to be the only ones present; but they've been running an increasing percentage of "warlock executions" as blood-sacrifice rituals over the centuries...

Maybe I'm just odd, but...I don't really see the appeal of large numbers. An accuracy 10 attack against defence 7 is identical to an accuracy 5 attack against defence 2, mathematically speaking. So what's the point?

Well... everyone likes to be an epic badass, don't they?   

Sure, these are the same mathematically.  But they are VERY different, narratively!   

That Accuracy 5 shot was an impressive knife thrown from 25 feet, hitting the ghoul who was about to grab the child.  The Accuracy 10 shot was thrown from 50 feet -- through a doorway that was being slammed shut! -- pinning the ghoul's hand to the wall. 

Or something, maybe my difficulties are off...   

Point is, the high-numbers games allow for much more badassery, which is often fun.

Hi there

I'm looking to see if there is a document that I could hand out to those new to the dresden files that shows what would be reasonable to know if you're:
clued in vanilla mortal
vampire (of different ilks)
changeling
wizard
practitioner
werewolf (of various ilks)

My Google-Fu is weak today so thought I would come to the experts ;-)

"It all depends."
Seriously, the power-level descriptors largely do what you're looking for.
A werewolf probably won't be any less than "feet in the water," and only that naive if remarkably isolated; but they could well be fully Sumerged, or more.  These are intended to measure both power-level and relative amount of knowledge.  I think exact degree of informed-ness is intentionally left to each group, however...

I am expanding an old campaign me and my buddy used to do as a 2-player for my regular gaming group. But the problem is that most of these guys are totally new to TDF and their fantasy background is giving them a bad taste for one of my favourite aspects of TDF; the balance. Maybe I should not have led off with; "you can't play a vampire without being a bad guy, in general" But I did. These guys are more used to "catch-less" powers, so the give and take and consequences have sort of turned them off.

Honestly, it sounds a bit as if this game may not be the best match for your group...  

Try explaining that the Universe itself seems to be a moral place, that it's a natural law of the Dresden universe that gives Lawbreaker Stunts.  Tell them about Refresh seen as free will, and that monsters who have given into their hungers have lost enough will to resist, slipping from PC-worthy to mere NPCs.  Monsters cannot really change or grow, they can only be true to what they are... except, sometimes, with the involvement of  free-willed mortals.

Good luck!

There's a big ol thread with spare character-concepts...  each is anything from a few lines to a fully-statted and playable sheet with extensive backstory notes, and a couple of examples, iirc, of the whole multi-phase / shared-backstory chargen.

I haven't seen anything so far in the books that contradicts the hypothesis that the Laws of Magic exist because the White Council has been enforcing them in what amounts to a millennium long ritual powered by the blood sacrifice of thousands of Warlocks.

Hmm.

Y'know, that is a fascinating observation.   Nothing to contradict the hypothesis... anything (besides the close Council/natural laws' correspondence) in either novels or DFRPG to suggest this IS so...?

The one "execution" we saw (the Korean(?) warlock) DID have a huge portion of the Sr. Council on-hand... and, IIRC, a circle...

There was no overt Ritual Magic happening, or Harry would've noticed... but those Very Heavy Hitters might have been able to slip some minor continuity-of-tradition rituals past him.  He was hardly at the top of his investigatorial game in that scene...