For those who were involved in the discussion in the DF Spoilers section in the Peace Talks Update thread, let us continue here.

For those watching or wanting to come in I shall summarize.

We are debating how an intelligence (human or otherwise) makes a choice, and somewhat how an individual shops at the supermarket.

Do you require emotion? Can robots make choices? How do you choose what the best value for money is? Should it be the law that price compared to weight is available on the shelf label or should we all be able to do the math in our heads? What is a good value proposition? And so on.

I know this doesn't quite fit the pattern, but could there be Denarian or members of the Circle in Storm Front?

Someone had to give Victor Sells the knowledge of the heart-ripping spell, which Vadderung implied was the same one as the Red Court uses in Changes.

Someone had to give Sells his Three Eye recipe, or at least guide him on how to invent such a thing.

Someone had to give him the knowledge of how to summon the Toad Demon.

My bet is the Circle. We are introduced to Bianca in this book, and we know that the Circle/Black Council wanted the war between Wizards and the Vampire Courts to happen. This whole book, the heart-ripping spell in particular, led Harry to Bianca. Where she ended up killing her assistant, and held Harry responsible.

Interestingly, Harry says that no Vampire sorcerer could pull that spell off (outside of the Nevernever). My belief is that Harry was wrong and that he was too naive and arrogant to believe any being but a mortal could do it. He also mistakenly believed that it was more likely a woman who did it as "women hate better". Aside from that ridiculous unsubstantiated statement, I also believe that these little issues were a result of Jim being such a young and inexperienced writer at the time. So perhaps much was retconned.

But if Harry's initial hypothesis is (still) true and even a Vampire Sorcerer couldn't pull it off outside of the Nevernever, I think that indicates that knowing Bianca couldn't pull it off they (the Circle/Black Council) had to use someone else.

The Circle killed a girl from the Velvet Room and one of Marcone's employees. So to me that seems plausible enough that they might have wished to get the only local loudmouth wizard to investigate, knowing he did consulting work for S.I. and knowing he might aggravate Bianca. Hell perhaps they actually knew something like that event would happen, as Wizards gain foresight over time AND clearly many supernatural types have prescient powers.

The whole book is a set up for the war, in order to end the White Council and establish an unobstructed New World Order (assuming that is the Circle's end game).

In Blood Rites Bob drops a pretty throwaway hint - "a fine thrall is so controlled they might not even know that they are a thrall at all, and it last long-term." He says this when explaining the difference between thralls and Renfields. Harry responds "just like Dumorne did to Elaine" to which Bob says "Sure - but it takes a lot of time and a certain amount of empathy"

So we know that Elaine was enthralled by Justin Dumorne - this was well established in Summer Knight (at least by Elaine's word...although it makes sense as Justin tried to do it to Harry and Elaine likely wouldn't have just gone along otherwise).

But two things are implied here:
          1) Justin had a certain amount of empathy towards Elaine and Harry.

          2) Someone is probably a thrall in the series, but they have no idea they are, and it has been going a long time.

It makes sense that Justin had a certain amount of empathy towards Harry and Elaine. From his scenes with Harry (aside from combat) it seems that he was a tough love sort, but did show warmth and affection. He may have been mad or corrupt, but he seems to have actually liked if not cared about his foster children.

Secondly, if Justin were Cowl - Elaine still being a thrall makes perfect sense. Hell, even if he isn't it still makes sense. She has definitely acted quite suspiciously throughout the series, with only plausible explanations helping her get out of trouble.

But what if Harry was the one still enthralled?

Would he even know? Would someone have picked up on it? There are some hints that this might be possible. For instance, in Summer Knight the Gatekeeper says Ancient Mai fears that Justin's teaching may have warped Harry in ways he cannot even see. While it is meant to read that it is more to do with the values that Harry might have learned from his time with (and even against) Justin, it also hints that Harry might not even be even able to tell if he has been shaped and controlled so. Another thing is that beings are constantly messing with or trying to mess with Harry's mind and Will. It is one of his greatest fears and weaknesses, and is a recurring theme in the series. Lasciel, Mab, Molly have all successfully messed with Harry's mind without him knowing for a long time. It could well be that a gifted psychomancer like Justin did just that, perhaps Harry only believes that he beat Justin and that there was a fire or perhaps there was a fire and a duel but the enthrallment wasn't fully broken (as we do know that Justin was attempting to enthrall Harry just before the final duel, and indeed got Harry to drink human blood as part of it and we all know how powerful human blood is, magically speaking). Constantly, most of the Council (especially the Senior Council) are worried about him being this Darth Vader like villain. Many of his enemies often believe that he will join their side, and knew his Mother (which is part of the reason many on the Council worry about him). Hell at one stage Nicodemus even believes that Lash has taken over Dresden and that it is in control. All this could be foreshadowing.

The obvious flaws are that during his star trial he would have likely been examined for such tampering, and Ebenezar would have looked too, plus likely a member of the Senior Council (unless it was Simon who vouched...which might hint all sorts of things, we know he is implied to have misled the council many times before). But presumably Mab or Molly would have noticed when they poked around in his head, or anyone else too.

Still though, the enthralled sleeper agent is a distinct possibility based on Bob's statement. I think either Elaine or Harry, or both, are enthalled.

Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/4Gmu76ritoQ?t=2959
Quote

    Eb took up the Blackstaff in 1884-1885 somewhere in there.  The Blackstaff chooses his successor.

So to my thinking - the most significant event of that time was the Berlin Conference and the Scramble of Africa. This allowed a channel for old European rivalries and helped set the stage for WWI.

So Eb takes up the Blackstaff, right as Kemmler is helping set up the first World War. What was Eb really up to and what caused him to take up the position?

The original Merlin in the Dresden Files is a VERY mysterious character. He formed the current version of the White Council, created the Catholic Church, was keeper of the Swords, created Demonreach and was its first Warden, probably was first Gatekeeper (at least mortal wise), saved the important text from the fires at the Library of Alexandria and wrote the 7 Laws of Magic, and probably a whole bunch of other stuff. Seems quite full on. Some of the magic he has performed was so advanced, so impossible, it seemed impossible to a regular user a few lifetimes later.

However when we go searching the internet we realise Merlin is much more complicated. It was Geoffrey of Monmouth who formalised the character we know today. He combined the welsh folk hero druid Myrdinn Wyllt (Merlin the Wild) and/or Merlin Caledonensis and Ambrosius Aurelianus (a Romano-Brit war leader) to form what he called Merlin Ambrosius (in Welsh: Myrddin Emrys) (Old Welsh: Embreis).  So we have this madman prophet druid cross war leader wise man. He was a cambion (born of a woman and an incubus - a sex demon that seduced women and impregnated them with demonic spawn). This is the original source of his powers in Monmouth's stories. Eventually he engineers Arthur's birth and the kingdom of Camelot. He serves as Arthur's advisor until eventually he is either killed or sealed away by the Lady of the Lake (sometimes called Nimue).
In latin his name is Merlinus.

He became associated with the tale originally attributed to Ambrosius Aurelianus, the tale of two dragons. In it a powerful warlord called King Vortigern is trying to build a tower that keeps crumbling, and is told by his advisers that he needs the blood of a bastard to stop it crumbling. However the real reason it keeps collapsing is that two great dragons are fighting beneath it: a white dragon (representing the invading Germanic Saxons) and a red dragon (representing the Celtic Britons; originally representing the Welsh). It is Merlin's wisdom in the retelling that solves this.

Eventually Merlin in his early days goes on to create Stonehenge, uses his magic to disguise Uther Pendragon so he can sneak into Tintagel Castle unnoticed and impregnate the wife of his enemy Gorlois, Igraine. This is how he engineers Arthur's birth. 

Here is where things get crazy. In later retellings by Robert de Boron (a french poet), he is actually created to be a demon spawn to become the Antichrist in order to reverse the Harrowing of Hell (the event where Christ after his crucifixion descended into Hell to free all the souls trapped there since the beginning of the world). But he is baptized at birth which frees him of Satan's power and so the plot is thwarted. However he keeps his knowledge of past and future, has great shape-shifting powers, is a joker, and is obsessed by the Holy Grail.   

His apprentice is often Arthur's half-sister Morgan Le Fay, which in the traditional tales they are not enemies, contrary to the later works. Often she is either a lover or unrequited love interest. In some tales he is also the teacher of Vivienne (Nimue) the Lady of the Lake.

So to my thinking - we have a lot of differences and yet a lot of similarities and call backs in the Dresden Files to the original tales. Morgan's knife is a weapon involved in great magics, powerful as Amoracchius, which may not be evil in and of itself. However as the Circle had it, and it was tainted with Nemesis or whatever leads to nemesis (some say Power could be), it probably was involved in some dark stuff at one time or another. He held the swords, one which was Amoracchius under the name Excalibur, and the Holy Grail features heavily in the later Arthurian tales.

Merlin in the Dresden Files is probably pretty dead or at least out of commission. We are told he is NOT the british prisoner in Demonreach. Which could again be misdirection, or perhaps he is down there but a different prisoner. Or he is elsewhere. I would say if he is around in some form, chances are Morgan Le Fay is too and so is Nimue. In Hellboy, Nimue is the Queen of Blood and a peer of the Queen of Darkness Hecate. It would not at all surprise me if she existed too - and was in fact either underneath a fairy Queen mantle OR perhaps Nimue or Morgan or both lead the Fomor or Circle. I know this is getting a bit convoluted but there are definitely big connections.

So perhaps Merlin was half White Court vampire, half mortal. Perhaps he was a starborn too (the antichrist thing). He likely was a shapeshifter of LTWs level or higher. He also has great knowledge of future and past. He could just as easily be Harry (via TT), or related to him through one family or another.  Yes this is all quite nuts - yet there is plenty of the secrets of the future tales I think embedded in here.

What are your thoughts?

Morgawse, Morgause...whatever you like. She is referred to by this name in the poem of the same name by A.E. Housman. She is the Witch-Queen of Orkeney who in is the daughter of Gorlois and Igraine (King Arthur's mother), Uther Pendragon takes Igraine as his wife making her Arthur's half sister. In some versions she is also Morgana Le Fey's sister too. And she is mother to Gawain, Agravaine, Garheris, Gareth and Mordred (who slays Arthur, and is his son...)

Highly convenient name considering Merlin's involvement in the Dresden Files.

So is Mab then Margause? A witch in a line of witches descended from Medea and Hecate? How do both Athame's fit in?

Mab did say she was once mortal...

Why isn't he dead?

If everything that stands upon the Earth on Halloween is mortal, from the Ladies to the Archangels, why isn't he dead? Harry blew his head off! Yet the dark cloud rushing away yowling implies that he survived?

So are Outsiders more than immortal? Was Bob wrong about conjunctions and Halloween? Are there exceptions?