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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Griffyn612 on April 06, 2013, 02:06:00 AM
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So what do we think about the golden light emanating from Harry's dream-staff during the mental whammy showdown with HWWBf?
I lifted my staff and golden white fire began to pour from the
carved runes as I gathered power into it.
We've seen the staff glow a variety of colors, but golden-white is a combo I don't think we've seen before, at least in the staff. There was at least one occasion that golden light emanated from the runes of his blasting rod, but as a fire magic construct, gold/yellow/red/white might be common.
The only other golden glow I could find reference too (real quick search) was a golden glow around Ammoracchius in GP, which seemed to be a natural color for it in opposition to Harry's blue wizard light.
Amoracchius burst into conflicting shades of blue and golden
light, as my power wrapped around it, a coruscation of sparks
that made Mavra howl in surprise and pain.
Do we think this was a temporary thing since it was in his head? Or do we think it might be a sign of another change? Maybe some aftereffect of his death and rebirth? Or a new manifestation of soulfire, which I believe has previously been portrayed with a bluish light.
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I think, given that there was, IIRC, mention of Soulfire pouring from the cracks in the ground in that conflict, it implies that the WG (or some Archangel) approves of Harry's use of Soulfire. Especially in that circumstance.
I don't think Soulfire is intrinsically linked to Harry's Starborn status, but in a mental struggle like that, I think it can help, for sure.
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I think, given that there was, IIRC, mention of Soulfire pouring from the cracks in the ground in that conflict, it implies that the WG (or some Archangel) approves of Harry's use of Soulfire. Especially in that circumstance.
I don't think Soulfire is intrinsically linked to Harry's Starborn status, but in a mental struggle like that, I think it can help, for sure.
But the glow of Soulfire has been shown to be blue and white. The staff glowed a golden-white. That doesn't match the Soulfire we've seen him wield so far. Are you saying you think that the golden-white light was Soulfire, but backed by a higher power?
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Higher Power, or Harry Power.
It was either an infusion of WG, or Starborn "energy" (whatever that is). Any other explanation is a huge stretch IMO.
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Higher Power, or Harry Power.
It was either an infusion of WG, or Starborn "energy" (whatever that is). Any other explanation is a huge stretch IMO.
I was thinking it might be a side effect of his crossing over and back. We've seen him use Soulfire, Hellfire, Winter Knight power, and his own power with a staff, and it wasn't golden. But I have a hard time believing the WG would take an active roll in things. Maybe it could have been an angel casting their lot in, but with it coming from his staff, I got the idea it was internal.
Maybe it could be this 'starborn' power. We haven't really seen him use starborn power before, so maybe his power turns golden in the presence of an Outsider.
That'd be a handy detection tool. :o
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Maybe the golden white light represents faith magic on some fundamental level, not just WG related magic?
Normally Harry's use of faith magic is limited to powering his amulet against supernatural beings.
The confrontation in his mind with Sharkface is sort of the first moment that Harry finally accepts and embraces his duty and his purpose in the greater scheme of things. Starborn, Warden, Winter Knight, Uriel's champion, etc.
So maybe the light symbolized some internal power.
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My vote is Starborn power, but backed by Soulfire. I don't think Soulfire is any sort of Kryptonite for Outsiders at all, but I think for a Starborn, it's still a multiplier.
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I was thinking it might be a side effect of his crossing over and back. We've seen him use Soulfire, Hellfire, Winter Knight power, and his own power with a staff, and it wasn't golden. But I have a hard time believing the WG would take an active roll in things. Maybe it could have been an angel casting their lot in, but with it coming from his staff, I got the idea it was internal.
Maybe it could be this 'starborn' power. We haven't really seen him use starborn power before, so maybe his power turns golden in the presence of an Outsider.
That'd be a handy detection tool. :o
I also think Harry influences soul fire he begins to understand it. In CDs when he was freeing himself from Mother Winter's bonds, it became something different. It was no longer as Harry put it something to add to a spell as a power boost, but something from with in him, him or if you will his soul.. Since the staff is an extension of his power, yeah I can see soul fire being a part of that.
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I thought since the light was creating snowflakes the whiteness was his winter power. Harry hasn't found his faith yet. Not that he couldn't. Harry using faith magic is seen in FM, But i think unknown to harry his symbol actually represents the goddess who gave humans magic (think its an eygptian myth?) to do with it what he believes its for, a tool for humans against the greater powers. I say this is likely because I'm pretty sure the goddess is who made an appearance in SF to calm Harry. When harry starts using faith magic we'll know.
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I thought since the light was creating snowflakes the whiteness was his winter power. Harry hasn't found his faith yet. Not that he couldn't. Harry using faith magic is seen in FM, But i think unknown to harry his symbol actually represents the goddess who gave humans magic (think its an eygptian myth?) to do with it what he believes its for, a tool for humans against the greater powers. I say this is likely because I'm pretty sure the goddess is who made an appearance in SF to calm Harry. When harry starts using faith magic we'll know.
Against Bianca in SF he did use a kind of faith magic, it saved his life. He said at the time that the reason a Cross works against a vamp is a person's faith. He said he has faith in his magic and he used his pentacle in the same way as a Cross.
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Against Bianca in SF he did use a kind of faith magic, it saved his life. He said at the time that the reason a Cross works against a vamp is a person's faith. He said he has faith in his magic and he used his pentacle in the same way as a Cross.
i AM aware of this and excluded it intentionally. Holding up a cross believing it will repel evil isn't magic, its faith. Harry even explains this, even says other wizards do believe their deity interacts with their power. By faith magic i presume a magical working applied with a measure of pure faith. Harry calling light to his amulet isn't really any more magical than a dark ages ignorant peasant repelling vampires through shear belief. Now Micheal slewing off vampires whilst spouting prayers or healing Harry in Smf, that could be faith 'magic'.
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i AM aware of this and excluded it intentionally. Holding up a cross believing it will repel evil isn't magic, its faith. Harry even explains this, even says other wizards do believe their deity interacts with their power. By faith magic i presume a magical working applied with a measure of pure faith. Harry calling light to his amulet isn't really any more magical than a dark ages ignorant peasant repelling vampires through shear belief. Now Micheal slewing off vampires whilst spouting prayers or healing Harry in Smf, that could be faith 'magic'.
The fact that a dark ages ignorant peasant can repel a vampire is magic almost by definition. It might not be flashy and cool, but it is effective.
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i AM aware of this and excluded it intentionally. Holding up a cross believing it will repel evil isn't magic, its faith. Harry even explains this, even says other wizards do believe their deity interacts with their power. By faith magic i presume a magical working applied with a measure of pure faith. Harry calling light to his amulet isn't really any more magical than a dark ages ignorant peasant repelling vampires through shear belief. Now Micheal slewing off vampires whilst spouting prayers or healing Harry in Smf, that could be faith 'magic'.
Harry clearly states that the protection invested by the amulet is from his faith in magic. And that magic glows blue.
I thought since the light was creating snowflakes the whiteness was his winter power. Harry hasn't found his faith yet. Not that he couldn't. Harry using faith magic is seen in FM, But i think unknown to harry his symbol actually represents the goddess who gave humans magic (think its an eygptian myth?) to do with it what he believes its for, a tool for humans against the greater powers. I say this is likely because I'm pretty sure the goddess is who made an appearance in SF to calm Harry. When harry starts using faith magic we'll know.
White sounds like Winter, but golden-white does not. There was a combination of powers getting used in that scene, and I don't doubt that some of it was WK related. But the golden light seems like something else.
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White sounds like Winter, but golden-white does not. There was a combination of powers getting used in that scene, and I don't doubt that some of it was WK related. But the golden light seems like something else.
Harry is now the chosen Champion of the golden calf from Exodus. The BAT culminates in a fist fight between Harry and Moses.
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Could it be a color taken from his sanctum, DR? Not the well, but the genius loci itself?
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Could it be a color taken from his sanctum, DR? Not the well, but the genius loci itself?
Does anyone remember what color the eyes of DemonReach were described as in TC?
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Does anyone remember what color the eyes of DemonReach were described as in TC?
TC, chp 36
Its eyes flashed, burning more brightly, sending out tendrils and streams of greenish fire in a nimbus around its head.
Not gold.
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TC, chp 36
Not gold.
Well there goes that potential clue.
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Well it could be that gold color because of the parasite. She is in Harry's head and since that is where the battle took place it makes sense, to me anyway, that she could participate if she so chose to. That certainly could affect the color of the lights from the runes. Everything else does.
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I could see Lasciel being symbolized by a golden light, before her fall, for sure.
Most of the ways that she represented herself to Harry seemed to invoke classical angel themes - even if she was no longer worthy of them.
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Harry clearly states that the protection invested by the amulet is from his faith in magic. And that magic glows blue.
I have no idea why this is a reply to my statement? I know its blue. Like you say though yea, it glows blue based on his belief in the symbolic pentagram, not as an actual spell, enchantment or drawing on of his wizardly abilities. In a couple books he really goes into detail about it representing magic being mankinds tool to aid them and representing order and control. Harry has faith in little else and says so repeatedly. Calling light and repellin vamps while "magical" to peasants isn't magic as defined in the DV. Harry summons his faith, but rarely summons faith based magic. Faith, love and hope being powers all their own in the DV.
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I think it means Harry has reached the upper level, and his mind, body, and soul are one... It was a sacrifice, it took hard work, but its a way of life.
http://youtu.be/PWVhiIisH30 (http://youtu.be/PWVhiIisH30)
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Higher Power, or Harry Power.
It was either an infusion of WG, or Starborn "energy" (whatever that is). Any other explanation is a huge stretch IMO.
What about a Higher Harry Power??
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Well looking at the scene it can't be soulfire because soulfire light is coming from the cracks in the ground. IMO it isn't starborn because thats dark energy. ok quick question then most likeliest resolution, before Harry ever gets lash influenced does his staff glow gold from fire? Likeliest I can think is its a metaphysical representation of harry drawing on his core beliefs. Pentagrams 5 points magically are(IIRC) earth, wind, fire, water, spirit. soulfire-spirit, water-ice, cracked ground-earth, flurry-wind and the gold light-(usually associated with summer/summer flame)fire. His meta-self is representing his beliefs by showing symbolic forces.
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Well looking at the scene it can't be soulfire because soulfire light is coming from the cracks in the ground. IMO it isn't starborn because thats dark energy. ok quick question then most likeliest resolution, before Harry ever gets lash influenced does his staff glow gold from fire? Likeliest I can think is its a metaphysical representation of harry drawing on his core beliefs. Pentagrams 5 points magically are(IIRC) earth, wind, fire, water, spirit. soulfire-spirit, water-ice, cracked ground-earth, flurry-wind and the gold light-(usually associated with summer/summer flame)fire. His meta-self is representing his beliefs by showing symbolic forces.
Source please. Or is this one of your WAGs?
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Source please. Or is this one of your WAGs?
WAG, thats the opinion part. IMO starborn status is the result of an undefined cosmic ritual, based on what Lash explains in WN. Seems she's describing the cosmic vending machine of series of events+ confluences of energy equals a can of soda starborn status. Its the closest you can get to outsider born and I believe how walkers are made. hhwbh is the watcher of these things maybe? I only say this because everyone see's the taint on harry, harry assumes its because they dueled. (which shouldn't apply to hhwb4 mentioned in SF) However I found a president for similar hhwbh entity in Kincaid. Harry 'sights' the demon he is, metaphysically. He also see's in his wake(walking behind him sorta) a shadow of the same creature. I say this is the mark of his ancestry, that which came before and follows, Its how scionism translates to the sight.
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I still say it's because Harry is the Last Dragon! Can't believe you guys didn't bite on that video!
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To add a bit. The very last thing that happens after harry shouts "bring it on!" is a voice, not Harry's voice, shakes the ground and sky making an outsider potentially greater than mab recoil. (he's the cloud) THAT is starborn power manifest. Another BR hint is when harry is changed by redirecting the entropy curse. Thats very similar to meryl slowly getting trollier when channeling her birthright. ripping away part of her humanity(soul damage?) in the process. I think this is why WOJ kincaid has chosen but still retains superhuman ability, reflexes, infrared sight, ect. He tore most of his humanity to bits and changed himself by it but in the end chose humanity, but kept the upgrades and demonic taint, though I imagine he would look different to the sight if he wasn't still a murderous 'human' then you'd only see his shadow, what for Harry is hwwbh. ??? Its possible whole races of halfborn are made this why. Halfborn because they channeled their power, changing them, but only half of it is ever born.