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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on October 04, 2020, 04:50:56 PM
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Justine trying to con her way onto Demonreach with an outsider in possession of her is a huge plot hole. She’s already been on Demonreach. She was there while the Outsiders assaulted the Island in Cold Days.
If she was already possessed by an outsider (HWHBeside said he’s held her since she started getting close to Lara that goes back to White Night) why didn’t she use her position to sucker punch everyone and release the horrors in the Well? Why wait?
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Well first, Maeve's comment on Demonreach suggests Justine was of interest to her and Beside, but not that she was already infected.
Second, even if she was, maybe she was laying in wait for Maeve to take down the defenses so she could get in. But then Mab showed up and things went downhill.
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Well first, Maeve's comment on Demonreach suggests Justine was of interest to her and Beside, but not that she was already infected.
Second, even if she was, maybe she was laying in wait for Maeve to take down the defenses so she could get in. But then Mab showed up and things went downhill.
If her presence on Demonreach... at all... is a problem as the scene in BG implies then why didn’t she pull the trigger when everyone was locked in combat and Alfred was, if not “neutralized” extremely busy?
HWWBeside said he’s been in possession of Justine since she got close to Lara that’s White Night she fed serious information to Thomas and Harry in Turn Coat. That also puts a very different spin on the scene with Thomas in Ghost Story. She needed Thomas dependent.
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Jim has so many threads dangling he's losing track.
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If her presence on Demonreach... at all... is a problem as the scene in BG implies then why didn’t she pull the trigger when everyone was locked in combat and Alfred was, if not “neutralized” extremely busy?
HWWBeside said he’s been in possession of Justine since she got close to Lara that’s White Night she fed serious information to Thomas and Harry in Turn Coat. That also puts a very different spin on the scene with Thomas in Ghost Story. She needed Thomas dependent.
That's why I'm saying she wasn't infected at that time. The text suggests otherwise. It makes more sense that she was infected on her mission to Corb's domain pre-Even Hand. Maybe they infected her and faked the escape, or maybe she was infected without her knowing in the process of a successful mission.
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Remember- Nemesis wasn't just trying to trick itself onto Demonreach- it specifically wanted to be invited down into the caverns below the Island.
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Remember- Nemesis wasn't just trying to trick itself onto Demonreach- it specifically wanted to be invited down into the caverns below the Island.
Ooh, yeah that.
I was going to say that Demonreach is actually exhausted after reaching all the way to Chicago to capture Ethniu. Demonreach was at basically full strength in Cold Days, though its Warden wasn't.
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Justine trying to con her way onto Demonreach with an outsider in possession of her is a huge plot hole. She’s already been on Demonreach. She was there while the Outsiders assaulted the Island in Cold Days.
If she was already possessed by an outsider (HWHBeside said he’s held her since she started getting close to Lara that goes back to White Night) why didn’t she use her position to sucker punch everyone and release the horrors in the Well? Why wait?
It may not have been possible then, or she may not have known about it until Harry got full control of the island, then it purposes would be better known. Harry didn't even know what he could do as Warden, if he had, Shaggy would be doing hard time now.
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Jim's editor Anne Sowards commented in the Barnes & Noble Q&A that there is at least ONE major plot hole that she noticed that Jim said is necessary to future books.
Maybe this is it.
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Jim's editor Anne Sowards commented in the Barnes & Noble Q&A that there is at least ONE major plot hole that she noticed that Jim said is necessary to future books.
Maybe this is it.
And here I figured it was the Cristos was burned and badly injured against Ethniu but apparently recovered in time for the Senior Council vote.
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If Justine is being possessed, how would Thomas have the True Love Protection from someone who wasn't really in control of themselves, or possibly even truly in love at all?
Though that does torpedo my theory that Nemesis can't possess mortal humans.
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If Justine is being possessed, how would Thomas have the True Love Protection from someone who wasn't really in control of themselves, or possibly even truly in love at all?
Though that does torpedo my theory that Nemesis can't possess mortal humans.
Would Thomas have protection of True Love? Justine would, and did, at least at one point. But would Thomas be safe from the others?
As for the Beside not infecting mortals thing, that really seemed out the window after the Cold Days list, but full control is still somewhat surprising. They have to abide by the thrice asked rule but not other mortal limitations?
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I'm convinced that this is one of the things that happened the night of Bianca's party. If you remember, before that, Justine was with Thomas because she had a condition that made her basically insane, and Thomas feeding on her made her even out. Yet after Bianca's party she went for years without being fed on and she was just fine.
I've been convinced that Justine was be nemfected since nemesis was identified; it allows beings act against their nature, and Justine was suddenly this totally cool and put together person. I'm convinced that this is another one of the 'several things of significance' that happened that night, of which Harry was unaware. Her saying that it was when she started getting close to Lara was just another ploy, imho, to get Harry to think that Lara is the one who infected Justine (You know, since the ploy of getting Justine into the depths of Demon Reach was clearly failing).
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I'm convinced that this is one of the things that happened the night of Bianca's party. If you remember, before that, Justine was with Thomas because she had a condition that made her basically insane, and Thomas feeding on her made her even out. Yet after Bianca's party she went for years without being fed on and she was just fine.
I've been convinced that Justine was be nemfected since nemesis was identified; it allows beings act against their nature, and Justine was suddenly this totally cool and put together person. I'm convinced that this is another one of the 'several things of significance' that happened that night, of which Harry was unaware. Her saying that it was when she started getting close to Lara was just another ploy, imho, to get Harry to think that Lara is the one who infected Justine (You know, since the ploy of getting Justine into the depths of Demon Reach was clearly failing).
He was pretty regularly feeding on Justine until the events of Blood Rites, Harry even makes an argument based on it after the monkey chase IIRC.
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I'm convinced that this is one of the things that happened the night of Bianca's party.
In Blood Rites, a nearly comatose Justine points the good guys to the Deeps. Doing so jeopardizes the ritual Raith was performing, which was to summon Behind. What you're proposing would mean Beside worked against summoning Behind.
I just don't see the point in thinking the enemy is lying. Everyone thought it was a Maeve lie to Lily that Beside/Nemesis was involved with everyone, now there's an argument that Beside is lying again.
There's just no point to it. It'd hurt Harry more if he thought every moment he'd had with Justine had been with Beside; that their shared experience in the basement at Bianca's had been a lie, that it'd been Beside who showed up at his door in nothing but a ribbon.
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I've been convinced that Justine was be nemfected since nemesis was identified; it allows beings act against their nature, and Justine was suddenly this totally cool and put together person.
This is the big clue imho. I believe it happened some time before White Night via Nemfected Vitto Malvora or the sad remains of Outsider-connected Papa Raith. Justine was almost reduced to a veggie state after Blood Rites. You just don't recover from something like this so thoroughly. The only thing that was left of the person Justine was the newly acquired True Love. Which made her a very interesting candidate around WCV. I think the recovery for Thomas' sake was the hook Nemesis used to bait her and her work to get close to Lara the price she had to pay. Nemesis must have realized the potential in her position early on: Lara would love to have a PA who can't be fed upon by other WCV and who is emotionally connected to the family via Thomas.
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Ooh, yeah that.
I was going to say that Demonreach is actually exhausted after reaching all the way to Chicago to capture Ethniu. Demonreach was at basically full strength in Cold Days, though its Warden wasn't.
It is not demonreach who is exhausted, it is Harry. Alfred can't do anything actively without Harry's command as the warden and with Harry barely holding on, there is very little that can be done.
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I'm convinced that this is one of the things that happened the night of Bianca's party. If you remember, before that, Justine was with Thomas because she had a condition that made her basically insane, and Thomas feeding on her made her even out. Yet after Bianca's party she went for years without being fed on and she was just fine.
I've been convinced that Justine was be nemfected since nemesis was identified; it allows beings act against their nature, and Justine was suddenly this totally cool and put together person. I'm convinced that this is another one of the 'several things of significance' that happened that night, of which Harry was unaware. Her saying that it was when she started getting close to Lara was just another ploy, imho, to get Harry to think that Lara is the one who infected Justine (You know, since the ploy of getting Justine into the depths of Demon Reach was clearly failing).
Exactly, that is my point as well. Also Nemeses might have the ability to just hibernate in Justine's brain until needed. So the true love thing between her and Thomas wouldn't be affected until such time as Nemeses needed it to be affected. Timing is everything, no doubt it was aware of Harry's little spiritual walk about in Ghost Story.. Suddenly Justine gets the idea that if she had lesbian sex with a friend, it would break the protection and she and Thomas can have sex? How many years had they been together by then? Why hadn't they thought of that or done something that simple before? I remember either in a book or short story, Justine is wearing a nifty rubber suit so she and Thomas can touch. Also with thinking Harry is dead at the time and what Shaggy did to him in Turn Coat, Thomas is vulnerable psychologically in ways he wasn't before, easier for her to control. That move was deliberate to pave the way for the eventual conception of the baby, which began the avalanche. Some one mentioned a Trojan Horse, Justine was a beautiful Trojan Horse, and Nemeses almost pulled it off, but Harry is star born and that made all the difference.
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I really hope that JB clarifies this sometime (the moment of infection) because I don't see Nemesis compatible with true love. Also, is the baby infected?
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I really hope that JB clarifies this sometime (the moment of infection) because I don't see Nemesis compatible with true love. Also, is the baby infected?
I hope not, I hope there is a way to remove the infestation. It is also clear that it pretty much takes a star born to detect when someone is infested. Maeve went a very long time before Mab realized it, Lea apparently was so far off the rails early on, then realized herself what was happening and surrendered to Dr Mab's ice treatment. Neither Lara nor Thomas apparently had any clue that anything was amiss with Justine. Harry almost didn't until it was too late, but exhausted as he was he finally was able to put two and two together and get four. He may have earlier but other than taken aback a little by Justine's reaction back in Peace Talks he didn't suspect anything. Why? Because he had no real reason to at that point, though a huge honking clue, as I said in an early threat that perhaps it may have been Justine who called up the Outsider corner hounds.
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If Justine is being possessed, how would Thomas have the True Love Protection from someone who wasn't really in control of themselves, or possibly even truly in love at all?
Though that does torpedo my theory that Nemesis can't possess mortal humans.
that might be the plot hole... Leah took Susan's memory so as to aquire her love for Harry thinking love would protect her. I assume since it was foreign, and love for Harry the changer/starborn that it opened her for Nemesis through the knife when she thought it would protect her... Now we have a couple that we KNOW had true love for each other and one of them is Nfected... That's fishy..
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I suspect Fidelacchius will be instrumental to remove Nemesis, at least from the baby.
The problem I see is: Is the baby useful for Nemesis now? Perhaps as a host, and protection to herself while she is carrying. So perhaps (hopefully) they are safe now. But what after the baby is born? Will he or she be useful for Nemesis or will it try to kill him/her? Because that will happen before the year until the wedding and all that.
Also, having Nemesis perhaps compete with the Hunger parasite? Thus helping Justine to conceive?
Lastly, we have seen in a short story that a Lamia is susceptible to Thomas power while inhabiting a human body, so...will Justine/Nemesis being susceptible to a full attack by Lara?
Agree about the corner hounds.
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Oof, you just gave me an idea... What if Nemesis isn't Nfecting Justine directly, but getting inside her defenses by possessing the babe..? Their life energies are pretty much melded from the sounds of PTs dialogue..
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that might be the plot hole... Leah took Susan's memory so as to aquire her love for Harry thinking love would protect her. I assume since it was foreign, and love for Harry the changer/starborn that it opened her for Nemesis through the knife when she thought it would protect her... Now we have a couple that we KNOW had true love for each other and one of them is Nfected... That's fishy..
Maybe not, if the true love protection is strictly a White Court thing, it wouldn't matter if the host is infested with Nemeses or not. Since the host is only protected from being fed upon by another White Court vampire.
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Maybe not, if the true love protection is strictly a White Court thing, it wouldn't matter if the host is infested with Nemeses or not. Since the host is only protected from being fed upon by another White Court vampire.
see the whole Lea thinking she could take on that which stalked us all by being in love idea touched on above. It's been implied she thought she could use love for Harry to gainsay Nemesis. Indeed, the kiss on Thomas's neck was supposed to be the litmus test for that, which she had passed.
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If Justine is being possessed, how would Thomas have the True Love Protection from someone who wasn't really in control of themselves, or possibly even truly in love at all?
Though that does torpedo my theory that Nemesis can't possess mortal humans.
Thomas didn't have the protection, Justine had the protection because Thomas loved her. The protection is against being fed on by Wampires, there's no indication that Thomas ever actually had this protection (nor has he needed it thus far).
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that might be the plot hole... Leah took Susan's memory so as to aquire her love for Harry thinking love would protect her. I assume since it was foreign, and love for Harry the changer/starborn that it opened her for Nemesis through the knife when she thought it would protect her... Now we have a couple that we KNOW had true love for each other and one of them is Nfected... That's fishy..
I don't know what you're talking about at all. At what point does anyone propose that love protects against nemfection?
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I don't know what you're talking about at all. At what point does anyone propose that love protects against nemfection?
No where, the true love protection protects against the emotional feeding by the form of the Hunger demon that infests the Raiths.. There is no fine print about it protecting against infestation from Nemeses.
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I don't know what you're talking about at all. At what point does anyone propose that love protects against nemfection?
if your paying attention it's there, not everything in the DF is simply spelled out for you. Lea had a plan, that plan included confronting nemesis, taking on the aspect of love was done intentionally, ergo part of her plan. Logic isn't rocket science thankfully,
There's a specific Woj about how Jim writes the DF so that you can figure out what's going on sans one important clue you'll have to spring board on your own.. snot that hard, just takes an open mind. It's not in the fine print, it's in between the lines 😉
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if your paying attention it's there, not everything in the DF is simply spelled out for you. Lea had a plan, that plan included confronting nemesis, taking on the aspect of love was done intentionally, ergo part of her plan. Logic isn't rocket science thankfully,
The athame was the tool used to nfect Leah. Your reading suggests that Leah somehow knew before she got it that the athame was somehow conveying a seed (for lack of a better word) of Nemesis. Yet later on in the series she spits about "treacherous gifts" which suggests that she definitely didn't know that the athame would nfect her.
I just don't buy it.
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The athame was the tool used to nfect Leah. Your reading suggests that Leah somehow knew before she got it that the athame was somehow conveying a seed (for lack of a better word) of Nemesis. Yet later on in the series she spits about "treacherous gifts" which suggests that she definitely didn't know that the athame would nfect her.
I just don't buy it.
she already planned on confrontation with Nemesis, "thought I could handle that what stalks us all". I'm not even sure what the Atheme has to do with gainsaying this at all. However, since she knew whose knife it was, it's entirely possible she took the knife to open nemesis up to HER thinking true love would be her protection.
She knew who the blade belonged to, and we have WOJ itself that who the blade belonged to was what was important about it.
Theres nothing to buy.
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I really hope that JB clarifies this sometime (the moment of infection) because I don't see Nemesis compatible with true love.
Are you saying true love would protect Justine from infection, true love protection would go away if she was infected, or that she couldn't get true love protection if she was infected?
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she already planned on confrontation with Nemesis, "thought I could handle that what stalks us all". I'm not even sure what the Atheme has to do with gainsaying this at all. However, since she knew whose knife it was, it's entirely possible she took the knife to open nemesis up to HER thinking true love would be her protection.
She knew who the blade belonged to, and we have WOJ itself that who the blade belonged to was what was important about it.
Theres nothing to buy.
I don't think Justine planned anything, she is a victim. Nemeses infected her, brought her sanity while stealthily softening her up for HeWhoWalksBeside. Her true love burned Thomas when he tried to touch her and feed on her, but it couldn't protect her from Nemeses.
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I don't think Justine planned anything, she is a victim. Nemeses infected her, brought her sanity while stealthily softening her up for HeWhoWalksBeside. Her true love burned Thomas when he tried to touch her and feed on her, but it couldn't protect her from Nemeses.
Leah my dear, not Justine.
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(Lea actually, not Leah)
Going back a moment to Justine, has she people pretending to be a risk for her? Or what is that Gary detected? I believe Harry said Lara's people, the feds and another party were following them in PT? (I need to reread it, but I was waiting to do a rereading of the full duology)
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she already planned on confrontation with Nemesis, "thought I could handle that what stalks us all". I'm not even sure what the Atheme has to do with gainsaying this at all. However, since she knew whose knife it was, it's entirely possible she took the knife to open nemesis up to HER thinking true love would be her protection.
She knew who the blade belonged to, and we have WOJ itself that who the blade belonged to was what was important about it.
Theres nothing to buy.
Yes, there is and I'm not buying either😂
It's been a while since this was discussed here but if I remember correctly, the original Morgana was the hottest candidate for who the Athame belonged to. The idea that Lea intentionally grabbed a Nemesis-vector is somewhat special imho. Mab's second would have known better.
Back to Justine: if True love should be incompatible with (an active?) Nemesis-infection, her sudden diet-planning in Ghost Story could have been a ploy to hide the fact that she doesn't have it any more. But I am not convinced. There is no reason to assume that Nemesis changes every aspect of a person. At least not at once. As the protection is what made Justine the perfect agent around Lara, I rather doubt it that Nemesis did not try to conserve it for as long as it could.
Maybe she lost it at some point but she definitely still had it in Turn Coat.
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Yes, there is and I'm not buying either😂
It's been a while since this was discussed here but if I remember correctly, the original Morgana was the hottest candidate for who the Athame belonged to. The idea that Lea intentionally grabbed a Nemesis-vector is somewhat special imho. Mab's second would have known better.
Back to Justine: if True love should be incompatible with (an active?) Nemesis-infection, her sudden diet-planning in Ghost Story could have been a ploy to hide the fact that she doesn't have it any more. But I am not convinced. There is no reason to assume that Nemesis changes every aspect of a person. At least not at once. As the protection is what made Justine the perfect agent around Lara, I rather doubt it that Nemesis did not try to conserve it for as long as it could.
Maybe she lost it at some point but she definitely still had it in Turn Coat.
ETA: Maybe that soul-gaze with agent Denton in Fool Moon already showed Nemesis' modus operandi: it clings to a defining aspect of a person and slowly corrupts it. With Denton it was his drive to fight evil, which is also a good quality per se...
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Denton was nemfected? (I forgot about him)
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@pirate. No there's not cause I'd don't care about selling you on anything. What exists exists, what is is, and the points of my theory stand firm. We already know she tried to take on Nemesis, her knowing better is ilrelavent, she did so with purpose.
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Leah my dear, not Justine.
No, Justine... She didn't plan, Nemeses did..
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No, Justine... She didn't plan, Nemeses did..
but I wasn't talking about Justine at all..
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but I wasn't talking about Justine at all..
Okay, sorry.
she already planned on confrontation with Nemesis, "thought I could handle that what stalks us all". I'm not even sure what the Atheme has to do with gainsaying this at all. However, since she knew whose knife it was, it's entirely possible she took the knife to open nemesis up to HER thinking true love would be her protection.
She knew who the blade belonged to, and we have WOJ itself that who the blade belonged to was what was important about it.
Theres nothing to buy.
I think that was a bit more complicated. I've wondered if Lea was infested before she got the Knife, because of the way she acted when we first meet her. I am more convinced now that she was merely power hungry, which left an opening for Nemeses. This is why this particular gift was selected to be presented to her.
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Denton was nemfected? (I forgot about him)
There's a WoJ that Nemesis didn't show up on stage until Grave Peril. I think both the Gatekeeper and Lily said the enemy was behind it. If all three statements are true, then Denton wasn't infected but was a tool of Nemesis.
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There's a WoJ that Nemesis didn't show up on stage until Grave Peril. I think both the Gatekeeper and Lily said the enemy was behind it. If all three statements are true, then Denton wasn't infected but was a tool of Nemesis.
Via Cowl, maybe.. I believe it was he who gave Denton the wolf belts. I think in the soul gaze Harry caught a glimpse of Denton kneeling and taking them from a robed figure.
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What Lily says about Nemesis in Cold Days:
"A disease. A parasite. A poison... You must have seen the contagion spreading. It has been before your eyes for years. It is a kind of spiritual malady. A mental plague. An infection slowly spreading across the earth. It changes that which ought not change. It destroys a father's love for his family by twisting it into maniacal ambition. It distorts and corrupts the good intentions of agents of mortal law into violence and death. It erodes the sensible fear that keeps a weakly talented sorcerer from reaching out for more power, no matter how terrible the cost. Each of them tainted by the contagion. It destroyed them. I saw what it did to her [Aurora]. I didn't know what was happening to my friend, but I saw it changing her. Twisting her day by day. I loved Aurora like a sister. But in the end, even I could see what she had become."
What Maeve said, with the now-obvious lie about Lea's infection:
"Remember your godmother, bound in ice at Arctis Tor. That was when my mother trapped her and spread the contagion into her. Think of the creatures of Faerie Wyld who have been behaving irregularly and unpredicably. Think of the strange conduct of some of the Houses of the White Court, changing their diets after centuries of stasis. Think of the Fomor, active and aggressive again for the first time in millennia. None of these things is coincidence. It spreads, a force that will upend the world and all of us with it."
SO, the question is, how much is it Beside spreading disinformation to make the threat seem overwhelming and unstoppable, and how much of it is Jim Butcher pulling back the curtain and showing us what's been going on for all these casefiles?
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Via Cowl, maybe.. I believe it was he who gave Denton the wolf belts. I think in the soul gaze Harry caught a glimpse of Denton kneeling and taking them from a robed figure.
That's where I'm at. Whether or not he was infected, I'm not so sure.
@Griffyn612: Assuming Lily knew exactly what she's talking about, she didn't even say Sells' love and Denton's good intentions were destroyed/distorted, respectively. Much less that they were infected by Nemesis. She just really strongly implied it. Fairies.
I'm not saying they weren't infected. I'm saying that we don't know. If we can believe Jim, and we've seen him lie/change his mind in Christmas Eve, then they weren't infected.
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That's where I'm at. Whether or not he was infected, I'm not so sure.
@Griffyn612: Assuming Lily knew exactly what she's talking about, she didn't even say Sells' love and Denton's good intentions were destroyed/distorted, respectively. Much less that they were infected by Nemesis. She just really strongly implied it. Fairies.
I'm not saying they weren't infected. I'm saying that we don't know. If we can believe Jim, and we've seen him lie/change his mind in Christmas Eve, then they weren't infected.
Harry made Lily answer a direct question about Nemesis:
"Lily. Are you sure that this contagion you speak of is real, and works the way you say it does?"
Lilly looked like opening her mouth exposed her taste buds to something foul, but she answered, "Absolutely."
She then hedged her answer about something she wasn't sure about, which was Mab's supposed infection.
"Are you sure Mab has been... been infected?"
"I am all but certain," Lily said. "But I have not examined her for myself."
So we can see where she's willing to hedge some things but not others. As to how much of her initial conversation was due to knowledge she had as Summer Lady versus what she learned from Maeve (which may have been misdirection), we don't know. She was also sure she could sense Nemesis in people, but that apparently wasn't real.
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How did she say it works? (Rhetorical because you provided the quote). She didn't really say they were infected. Jim said they weren't. If it wasn't for Jim's statement, I'd assume they were infected. I'd still say we don't know. People on the forum have a tendency to ignore all of Harry's warnings about listening to the Sidhe. In context it's clear she's talking about Sells and Denton. Harry's repeatedly warned to not rely on context.
If I would get money for guessing right, my guess would be that Nemesis was behind Sells and Denton, but they weren't infected, just manipulated.
Just to add to your point, we now know that the Ladies are incapable of just giving a straight answer.
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Without a bargain.
Harry tells Maeve to "cut the evil kinktress routine and we can get down to brass tacks"- and she does
Ramirez offers to assist Molly if she levels with him in Cold Case. She can suddenly speak to him straight regarding the issue at hand.
You have to offer the Ladies a bargain to get straight info. Or maybe just the Sidhe.
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How did she say it works? (Rhetorical because you provided the quote). She didn't really say they were infected. Jim said they weren't. If it wasn't for Jim's statement, I'd assume they were infected. I'd still say we don't know. People on the forum have a tendency to ignore all of Harry's warnings about listening to the Sidhe. In context it's clear she's talking about Sells and Denton. Harry's repeatedly warned to not rely on context.
If I would get money for guessing right, my guess would be that Nemesis was behind Sells and Denton, but they weren't infected, just manipulated.
Just to add to your point, we now know that the Ladies are incapable of just giving a straight answer.
I'm in the camp that using dark magic corrupts a person with <insert term for the corruption>, which opens doors in the mind that otherwise remain shut. Nemesis/Beside can then whisper through those doors, twisting the individual without actually possessing them.
The Corruption would occur without Beside, but Beside can make it worse and guide it. I think that's what he did with Sells and Denton and the rest. He never possessed them fully, he just whispered and twisted using the corruption as a gateway.
But with Lea, Aurora, Maeve, Cat Sith, and Justine, there seems to have been some level of actual possession. At least for three of them. We're not 100% on Aurora or Maeve being possessed. They may have been corrupted and twisted by whispers, but not possessed. We only see Lea (on ice), Cat Sith (on boat), and Justine (on boat) be outright controlled.
So obviously, Harry should never go anywhere on a boat with anyone ever again. And also, maybe Justine is a scion or changeling of some sort after all, which allowed for the possession, whereas a full mortal human wouldn't due to free will laws. But I could also see where enough corruption and whispers could leave a human open to possession. After all, Before was in a human body (and a somewhat joking post-script WOJ is that it was Vito) and Behind was (briefly) in a human body.
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That's where I'm at. Whether or not he was infected, I'm not so sure.
He may not have been infected, but Denton was seduced and then corrupted by the addictive power of the belts. He could have been enthralled by Cowl, which is perhaps just a step short of infesting with Nemeses. Perhaps the judgement was that the belts were enough influence to get the result they wanted.