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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Radijs on August 12, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
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I think this question's probably come up before and its one of the few things that irks me about DFRP and fate in general.
Recourses is a skill.
If my character's dead poor he'll stay that way, even if the adventure means we find several suitcases full of money, unless I spend several sessions slowly increasing my recourses skill (and maintain my skill pyramid while I do so) my character will continue being poor.
He could wallpaper his (tiny) appartment with 100 dollar bills but still not have a penny to his name.
The same goes for gear and goodies (Focii, enchanted items etc) You've got a certain amount, and its more or less fixed.
I want to loot the bodies! I wanna run my hands through grubby piles of cash! How can DFRP/FATE handle this?
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Aspects are, I think, the best way to deal with this. One thing to remember about a low resources score is that it doesn't just represent not having any money, it also represents not being great at having money available. Remember that with aspects your character can be a millionaire who can't swing the funds to bribe a rent-a-cop in a crunch. As a GM if I handed out fat stacks of cash to the character I would probably tell them all that they have the aspect (or even a couple of stacked aspects if it's a really large amount of money) "Cash on Hand" or "Briefcase of Bills" or the like and tell them that those aspects will stick until the end of the next story. Also of course tell them that if they want an excuse to raise their resources this would be a good opportunity.
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For money that makes sense.
How would it work for magic stuff? IE: The evil wizard has the Superstaff of Doom, I clout him with mine and decide that I'm morally bankrupt enough to use the SoD and add it to my collection of magic items? Even though I'm already out of slots for focus items and such.
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That is one of those places where mechanical balance bumps into story, personally I would give the player three options.
1) Spend refresh to buy the Staff of Doom, I would allow some major restructuring to allow for this.
2) The character may use the Staff of Doom until the end of the current story but then gives it up permanently at the stories conclusion (the how can vary, delivers it to the Wardens, gifts it to a powerful fey, breaks it in the final conflict etc).
3) Allow the character to use the Staff of Doom until the end of the current story and then change one of his aspects to represent his ownership of said staff. I would generally tell the player to assume that he doesn't always have it on him (he may spend a fate to Declare that he does with the aspect) and that he hasn't fully learned to control it. Dependent on the nature of the item I may also occasionally compel the aspect to force the character to spend a fate or two (I wouldn't NPC them with this without their permission though) to gain some permanent access to the IoP (similarly to how Changlings work).
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If the Superstaff of Doom is a focus or magic item it wouldn't work for someone who used magic differently than the wizard who crafted it. Now, if you manage to wrest the Superstaff away from its wielder in a climactic moment I would personally waive this rule during that confrontation, but in general stealing another wizard's focus or enchanted item doesn't give you access to its power.
If it's an IoP then you'd have to either pay the refresh cost for it and potentially lose control of your character or pay a fate point for any scene in which you wanted to make use of it.
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This has come up a couple of times:
Money: Aspects. Our GM rules that loot related aspects stick until the end of the story arc and that you can tag them once for free on a single Resources roll during this story arc.
Items: Nothing is free. If we find an item, we are allowed to use it in that scene. After that, if we keep it, we must spend FP equal to the refresh it is worth (for an IoP), or a single FP for Potions/Applicable Enchanted Items (Foci have been ruled to not work for casters other than those who made it/it was made for without invoking an aspect to justify it). The caster is unable to recharge an enchanted item they haven't made without research, so it's only good for a limited number of uses.
Eventually, if we use these things a lot, we are asked to incorporate them into our character at the next appropriate milestone (Significant for boosting Resources, Major for incorporating IoP, and Minor for shuffling Enchanted Items).
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There is another thread active right now that discusses this exact issue. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28205.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28205.0.html)
There seems to be a possible solution for this in another Fate-based Game called "Bulldogs!"
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He could wallpaper his (tiny) appartment with 100 dollar bills but still not have a penny to his name.
That's because he wallpapered all his money to his apartment walls instead of putting them in a bank account. :)
For money, your GM can also just give you a bonus on resources rolls until he decides the cash is gone. It doesn't NEED to be an Aspect, although it certainly can work that way as well.
For items, well, I gotta agree with the other posters here. You maybe can "preview" them that scene or even that session, but if you want always-on access to them, you pay the refresh. That's for refresh-costing Items, though. Items with a capital I.
When it comes to equipment, I generally am pretty forgiving. My group picked up a dagger that can hurt ghosts, some tricked-out M4s and some SWAT-issue MP5s, body armor, etc. As far as I'm concerned, they have those things. Nothing there is anything I would charge refresh for, not even the ghost knife. Although since they haven't spent any points, they know I can take it away if I feel like it. In fact, there's been a funny side-story about the group's assault rifles all being held by the one player who never makes it to gaming. Whenever anyone else can't make it, our in-game explanation is that they've gone to track down Jimmy Pale Wolf and get those guns back before he trades them for sexual favors or Alf pogs or something.
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If you want to quantify liquid resources you could borrow the Legends of Anglerre treasure system. Each unit of treasure can be turned in for a +1 to a single resources roll. It's similar to the temporary aspects idea, but a little more granular, and allowing a player to write "2 units of resources" on his or her sheet might make it seem more "real" to them.
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in our games we ignore the resources skill entirely, except with NPCs and even then, it;s mostly dealt with via GM fiat
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Give the players green-colored fate point chips, and tell them that each chip represents a one-shot free-taggable "Wad of Cash" aspect, useable to boost rolls in which expending money would provide a benefit (rolls to buy stuff, bribery attempts, etc). Note that you could write this down, instead (e.g., "Wad of Cash" x3), but I think having chips would be more amusing. Be careful not to have too many of these chips in play...
This is basically identical to DFJunkie's idea, but skinned a bit differently.
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Give the players green-colored fate point chips, and tell them that each chip represents a one-shot free-taggable "Wad of Cash" aspect, useable to boost rolls in which expending money would provide a benefit (rolls to buy stuff, bribery attempts, etc). Note that you could write this down, instead (e.g., "Wad of Cash" x3), but I think having chips would be more amusing. Be careful not to have too many of these chips in play...
This is basically identical to DFJunkie's idea, but skinned a bit differently.
I like the overall concept but I think I'm going to go with something like this instead.
Tell them that each dollar in their wallet represents a one-shot free-taggable "Wad of Cash" aspect, useable to boost rolls in which expending money would provide a benefit (rolls to buy stuff, bribery attempts, etc). Dollars will not be returned at the end of play.
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Lmao. Just choked on coffee.
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I like the overall concept but I think I'm going to go with something like this instead.
Hm. I do see the appeal. And there are no obvious balance issues that I can see. I look forward to hearing how it works out. And I also look forward to getting my 15% royalty check...
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$1 per tag?
Way too cheap. A character with Mediocre Resources could buy an island for the OoC price of a sandwich.
Think bigger.
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Way too cheap. A character with Mediocre Resources could buy an island for the OoC price of a sandwich.
Hrm, good point. $1 for the first tag, $2 for the 2nd, etc...? Make it table-wide and it could add up pretty fast.
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Or maybe ten bucks a tag, divided by the character's resources. Seems like a perfectly fair way of doing it.
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Fair, shmair. Smokes n munchies don't buy themselves.
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Giving a +X to resources for a specific amount of money doesn't really make sense story-wise because what you can buy with the resources skill goes up logarithmically (a +1 to resources equals a multiplication by 10 of amount of spendable cash). Personally, my group uses a rule that treasure has a specific resources score that can be used to replace one's own resources score (for better or worse) for a specific number of purchases.
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Or maybe ten bucks a tag, divided by the character's resources. Seems like a perfectly fair way of doing it.
First, determine what your expected number of Wads of Cash will be.
Next, estimate the amount of money you'd need to make the payments on a new BMW.
Divide the second number by the first to get your cost per tag! Suggestion: double the result, just in case. Blame it on the economy.
If actual useage lags, options include:
1) Allow flexibility in what Wads of Cash invokes can be used for. "I cast Magic Missile. I attack the Darkness! Here's three Wads of Cash for a +6 to my roll!"
2) Allow Wads of Cash to be used to buy off compels. COMPEL OFTEN! "Hm. I see that you are a Wizard of the White Council. Well, unfortunately you just accidentally hexed the high power cables, and one snapped and is heading right for your head. (Holds up a chip.) Ah, buying it off with Wads of Cash, eh? Then the wire narrowly misses you. But then, there's another CRACK! as the next cable over snaps and is whipping right toward your head! (Holds up a chip.)
3) Normal invokes now cost a Fate point PLUS a Wad of Cash!
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All humour aside, ALurker raises a good point. His approach sounds pretty reasonable to me.
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First, determine what your expected number of Wads of Cash will be.
Next, estimate the amount of money you'd need to make the payments on a new BMW.
Divide the second number by the first to get your cost per tag! Suggestion: double the result, just in case. Blame it on the economy.
If actual useage lags, options include:
1) Allow flexibility in what Wads of Cash invokes can be used for. "I cast Magic Missile. I attack the Darkness! Here's three Wads of Cash for a +6 to my roll!"
2) Allow Wads of Cash to be used to buy off compels. COMPEL OFTEN! "Hm. I see that you are a Wizard of the White Council. Well, unfortunately you just accidentally hexed the high power cables, and one snapped and is heading right for your head. (Holds up a chip.) Ah, buying it off with Wads of Cash, eh? Then the wire narrowly misses you. But then, there's another CRACK! as the next cable over snaps and is whipping right toward your head! (Holds up a chip.)
3) Normal invokes now cost a Fate point PLUS a Wad of Cash!
Now that's some quality thinking! I think I'd go payments + insurance though. Full coverage on a new BMW is likely to be on the brutal side.
All humour aside, ALurker raises a good point. His approach sounds pretty reasonable to me.
True. Might also specify that if number of uses > 10 it can be rolled up to one use of a higher level.
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10 might be a little much, but I agree with the idea.
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I think this question's probably come up before and its one of the few things that irks me about DFRP and fate in general.
Recourses is a skill.
If my character's dead poor he'll stay that way, even if the adventure means we find several suitcases full of money, unless I spend several sessions slowly increasing my recourses skill (and maintain my skill pyramid while I do so) my character will continue being poor.
He could wallpaper his (tiny) appartment with 100 dollar bills but still not have a penny to his name.
The same goes for gear and goodies (Focii, enchanted items etc) You've got a certain amount, and its more or less fixed.
I want to loot the bodies! I wanna run my hands through grubby piles of cash! How can DFRP/FATE handle this?
Not all fate games have resources as a skill.
Bulldogs! keeps resources separate and one's beginning resources upon character creation is influenced by the barter and gambling skills.
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If my character's dead poor he'll stay that way, even if the adventure means we find several suitcases full of money, unless I spend several sessions slowly increasing my recourses skill (and maintain my skill pyramid while I do so) my character will continue being poor.
He could wallpaper his (tiny) appartment with 100 dollar bills but still not have a penny to his name.
Storywise the explanation for this is that your character with a low resource skill not only doesn't have a lot of available cash, he also has numerous debts that he has to pay off. For example if Dresden ended up with a wad of $100 bills and didn't feel compelled (heh) to return it he would probably pay his rent and bills for the month and any back rent and then use the influx of cash to justify a few days off, so all in all it would have no real effect on his resource skill. If you think about it the resource skill not only represents how much cash you have, but also how you treat the money you do have. You could make a CEO with a resource skill of 2 because he obsessively invests his money and as a result never has cash available to spend on things, or a Cashier with a resource skill of 4 because he saves all of his money and doesn't waste it on luxuries.
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*****Random Ideas. YMMV****
As a GM you can largely prevent unexpected loot turning into a problem. Think about turning high value items taken from bad guys quickly turning into tags or social or mental conflicts. Marcone would never let a suitcase with half a mil just walk away. But in keeping with the loot that no longer has an owner...
Make each loot item a "Consequence".
Mild +2 to one resource check, lasts until the end of the next scene. The money you swiped from a thug's
wallet. By the end of the next scene you could have gotten to an ATM, and that small amount of cash
would be useful. Might be used to counter act a compel like "Lost My Wallet".
Moderate +4 to one resource check, lasts until the end of the story. This could be one valuable item or a sack of
cash, which may come in handy during the story. After that, it probably went for rent.
Severe +6 to one resource check, lasts until the end of the next story. Like the briefcase full of money Murphy
got during Aftermath. Its a lot of money, but if it stays around for too long, it will find itself dwindling
to pay rent, or smaller needs for the Paranet.
Extreme +8 to resource checks, lasts until the story says otherwise. Imagine the last season of Angel where
the team got Wolfram and Hart.
This could also be turned into another stress track for social or mental conflicts involving extortion or ransoms. You could take consequences to you Resource skill like you do your other stress tracks. If you have seen "Proof of Life",
you can see where I'm taking this.
Try to allow only planned loot, so you can stat in advance.
*edited for spelling errors.*
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I actually rather like this idea... it's scalable in an established, obvious way... and lasting in a much more appropriate way than aspects.
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YS278 states that magic items only work for the creator unless made specifically to be used by someone else. Thats the easiest fix in my opinion. The item simply was made to only work for the greedy bad guy caster. If you want the party to have access then it was made useable by anyone. Or, They find a Grimoire With the Item Recipe so they can make one themselves (perhaps a very rare component is needed though? hello story line.).