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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Kristine on August 08, 2012, 09:45:49 PM
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AAARG! Help I've painted myself into a corner and I can't get out...
I have a group that I have been playing Pathfinder with every Friday for the last year and a half. Two GMs alternate games so neither one will get burned out and they each get to play as well as GM - 2 weeks ago they both felt a little burned out and decided they needed a break at the same time soooo - having bought the Dresden Files RPG books and itching to play I decided to volunteer to GM a game and try out the system...Yeah, I'm not sure how that went.
Everyone had a good time (at least there were no complaints at the end) but I'm pretty sure I didn't use the fate points appropriately - I never got a chance to invoke an aspect and only one person used a fate point to increase a role. We were Playing the free write up called Night Fears http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/2011/04/26/casefile-night-fears/ and pretty much NOTHING went as planned. For those of you who don't know this is a 'feet-in-the-water' level game with 13-14 yr olds who stay in a haunted house on a dare and encounter ghosts.
After exploring the house and finding various clues, instead of sitting down to tell scary stories these kids decided to use all their abilities to start investigating the murder - so they skipped the entire 2nd act and just to throw in a little flavor I had Maggie's diary implicate a White Court Vampire; Skavis (hired as a gardener while Jerome was away at work) as the reason for the couples extreme despair reactions of murder and suicide.
Well the night ended with them giving rest to the murdered baby and mother and the character who talks to ghosts found out from the father that it was the fault of the white court Vampire and tasked them with finding the fiend and making sure he didn't do this to anyone else - I threw that task out there - thinking this was a one shot and we would never see these characters again...
The Gm who's week it would have been this week has been in a motorcycle accident (he's okay but recovering - and without health insurance it may take him a longer time) so the players have asked me to run again - with the SAME 14 yr old characters...taking on a white court vampire...
I figure I can lead them a merry chase through some LESS deadly enemies on their search for the vampire - maybe some more ghosts - but I also want to play the game with more of use of the mechanics that I don't seem to be using correctly.
help help help... the game is Friday
The PCs are:
Andy Drabyk, Jock in the Making
Chris Stein, Trickster Changeling
Donny Disney, Rich boy
Jaimie Collins, Psychic Bookworm
Mike Ng, Troubled Medium
Nicky Hamonic, Steadfast Best Friend
Terry Jefferson, Devout Follower of the Shepherd (good natured cultist)
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...so the players have asked me to run again - with the SAME 14 yr old characters...taking on a white court vampire...
Hope your friend recovers quickly! As for taking on a WCV, it shouldn't be all that difficult if they can a) catch him alone and b) the WCV isn't powerful enough to set up a block individual PCs can't bypass. Maybe throw in c) "if the PCs work together". :) (With 7 PCs they can easily set up a +12 for #7 to take advantage of and, with work / luck might push it as high as +24. That does require working together to stack aspects and pass tags.)
I figure I can lead them a merry chase through some LESS deadly enemies on their search for the vampire - maybe some more ghosts - but I also want to play the game with more of use of the mechanics that I don't seem to be using correctly.
Leading them through others makes sense...they're likely to run up against bouncers and be unable to get into any club the WCV may frequent. Talking someone into taking a message to the WCV and coming up with a reason for him to meet them should be interesting. Or there's the stalking method...either way they'll have to deal with human authority figures (of a sort) who may or may not know what the WCV is.
As for rules - which mechanics did you want to work on / emphasize?
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Hope your friend recovers quickly! As for taking on a WCV, it shouldn't be all that difficult if they can a) catch him alone and b) the WCV isn't powerful enough to set up a block individual PCs can't bypass. Maybe throw in c) "if the PCs work together". :) (With 7 PCs they can easily set up a +12 for #7 to take advantage of and, with work / luck might push it as high as +24. That does require working together to stack aspects and pass tags.)
You can stack aspects and combine dice successes?
Leading them through others makes sense...they're likely to run up against bouncers and be unable to get into any club the WCV may frequent. Talking someone into taking a message to the WCV and coming up with a reason for him to meet them should be interesting. Or there's the stalking method...either way they'll have to deal with human authority figures (of a sort) who may or may not know what the WCV is.
As for rules - which mechanics did you want to work on / emphasize?
I am under the impression that when played correctly you use fate points prodigiously and I only had one player use one once in the whole game. The players played the aspects so I didn't feel a need to tag them and they WERE headed in the right direction for investigation. so what am I doing wrong?
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You can stack aspects and combine dice successes?
You can use a given aspect once per roll. So player 1 can make a "Painted by the Spotlight" Maneuver, player 2 can make a Declaration of "Holding the Car Steady", and both could pass the free tags to player 3 who rolls Guns and adds 4 for the tagged aspects.
You don't combine dice directly, instead you pass usable aspects & tags to an ally.
I am under the impression that when played correctly you use fate points prodigiously and I only had one player use one once in the whole game. The players played the aspects so I didn't feel a need to tag them and they WERE headed in the right direction for investigation. so what am I doing wrong?
I hesitate to call that correct so much as simply different styles. That said, if you had passed out fate points for the self compels as they played to their aspects I suspect they'd have used more instead of saving them. In my experience, scarce resources get saved while abundant resources get spent. You should also give yourself / NPCs fate points to spend - set an example. Preferably a painful one. ;)
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You can stack aspects and combine dice successes?
On any given roll, you can invoke every aspect only once. Usually the best way to defeat something is not to keep attacking, but to gather up as much aspects as you can for one final blow (that's the "stacking aspects" part). If you have multiple characters working together, each one can create aspects and give other players the free tag from those aspects to use on a subsequent attack.
I am under the impression that when played correctly you use fate points prodigiously and I only had one player use one once in the whole game. The players played the aspects so I didn't feel a need to tag them and they WERE headed in the right direction for investigation. so what am I doing wrong?
There should be a good flow back and forth of fate points, but I had trouble with that, too. A good way to get people to spend them is by being generous with them. If they see, that they can get them fairly easy, they might be willing to spend them. Try to compel your players for a lot of things, even minor things, you'll get the hang of it sooner or later. And they'll probably need them fate points, because they will be in a lot of trouble after a while *g*
You could give them a very inexperienced white court vampire to fight. One of those whites running around has to have produced offspring that nobody is aware of. So he will grow up not knowing what he is, but at some point during puberty, his hunger will probably get the better of him. Probably not sex (it is a bit young, but he could be a bit older than them), but maybe he's the highschool pretty boy, every girl wants him, he's got new girls making out with him every five minutes, that kind of thing. He gets stronger while the girls he feeds upon get weaker and sicker, to the point where it seems like an epidemic at the school.
Not sure if that's enough, but it might be a way to give your players a white court vampire that fits their characters and powerlevel. You can have his band of groupies stand between the players and him as his lieutenants, to build up for a big fight.
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You can use a given aspect once per roll. So player 1 can make a "Painted by the Spotlight" Maneuver, player 2 can make a Declaration of "Holding the Car Steady", and both could pass the free tags to player 3 who rolls Guns and adds 4 for the tagged aspects.
You don't combine dice directly, instead you pass usable aspects & tags to an ally.
I hesitate to call that correct so much as simply different styles. That said, if you had passed out fate points for the self compels as they played to their aspects I suspect they'd have used more instead of saving them. In my experience, scarce resources get saved while abundant resources get spent. You should also give yourself / NPCs fate points to spend - set an example. Preferably a painful one. ;)
UmbraLux is correct on both these points - Compels are the GM making the characters act a certain way (backed up by their Aspects) in exchange for a Fate Point to the PCs. Self-compels are when the PCs do this themselves, and should also be rewarded with FPs.
Passing on Tags is the main method of Teamwork in DFRPG, and FATE in general - a whole party working together can rack up colossal bonuses to dice rolls wothout spending a single FP.
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UmbraLux is correct on both these points - Compels are the GM making the characters act a certain way (backed up by their Aspects) in exchange for a Fate Point to the PCs. Self-compels are when the PCs do this themselves, and should also be rewarded with FPs.
Passing on Tags is the main method of Teamwork in DFRPG, and FATE in general - a whole party working together can rack up colossal bonuses to dice rolls wothout spending a single FP.
okay how do you 'pass on' a tag?
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okay how do you 'pass on' a tag?
The player who created an aspect can decide who gets to use the free tag for that aspect. You can use it yourself, or you can say "Player X can use my free tag", or "Whoever attacks next can use my tag", and so forth. Or a player can ask other players for their tags, if he thinks they could benefit him in his action.
Edit:
Just to make sure, you understand the tag itself, right?
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As for getting players to spend their fate points, I've found the best way to do that is to make their opposition even or a little higher than them in whatever skills are going to be opposed.
If you've got a socially-aligned character, put them up against a WCV who's on par with Rapport, Presence, and Deceit. Make it so that their enemies are strong enough that they'll have to spend a fate point here and there to keep from taking big consequences.
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The players played the aspects so I didn't feel a need to tag them and they WERE headed in the right direction for investigation. so what am I doing wrong?
Did they play their aspects in a way that made their lives more challenging and led to unexpected complications?
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okay how do you 'pass on' a tag?
Haru covered it. Players (not characters) may choose to pass the free tag on a newly created or discovered aspect to another player. Even if they don't, other players may spend fate to invoke the aspect when they interact with it.
It helps to remember fate points (and tags) are a meta-game concept. Characters need to interact with an aspect to use it but don't have to be the one who set it up or even know about it in character. Location aspect are a good example - characters may not know they're standing in a Ley Line but they certainly may interact with it when using magic...and gain a bonus from it when invoked.
Similarly, player 3's character may or may not realize player 2's character is keeping the car steady. But since he's in the car he is interacting with the aspect and may either use the free tag (if player 2 allows it) or simply spend a fate point of his own to invoke and use the aspect.
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Similarly, player 3's character may or may not realize player 2's character is keeping the car steady. But since he's in the car he is interacting with the aspect and may either use the free tag (if player 2 allows it) or simply spend a fate point of his own to invoke and use the aspect.
so player #3 is trying to shoot something out of a car window but has no skill in firearms (0) so player #2 who is driving the car and trying to keep it steady rolls 4 dice on his drive skill and ends up with a +3 result...if player #2 advises they are keeping the car steady to help #3 with his shot - player #3 gets +3 on his action?
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The driver sets up the shot first by rolling to create the aspect "keeping the car steady" or just "steady" using his driving skill. If successful, the shooter can tag that aspect for a +2 or reroll on his shot.
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Also now that you have played a session, I would highly suggest reading a good chunk of the "aspects" and "playing the game" sections. Reading them again after having hands on time makes a lot of things make more sense.
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The driver sets up the shot first by rolling to create the aspect "keeping the car steady" or just "steady" using his driving skill. If successful, the shooter can tag that aspect for a +2 or reroll on his shot.
does he need to spend a FP for that?
PS:
OMG - I soo want to include this traffic barrel monster in my game as a construct...
(http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/3/7/3/140373_v1.jpg)
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so player #3 is trying to shoot something out of a car window but has no skill in firearms (0) so player #2 who is driving the car and trying to keep it steady rolls 4 dice on his drive skill and ends up with a +3 result...if player #2 advises they are keeping the car steady to help #3 with his shot - player #3 gets +3 on his action?
Close, but player 3 would get a +2 for tagging the 'steady car' aspect (tagging or invoking an aspect always gives +2). He doesn't get player 2's roll result.
does he need to spend a FP for that?
Only if player 2 doesn't pass the free tag or when that free tag has already been used.
Aspects newly created or discovered by a roll (Assessment, Declaration, or Maneuver) get one free 'tag' - one use without spending a fate point. That does have to occur reasonably quickly but with the exception of Assessments*, new aspects generally don't last too long.
*Thaumaturgy is another potential exception - but that's another discussion entirely.
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The first person to tag it may do so for free. Any time it gets tagged after that, the person must use a FP.
Edit: What UmbraLux said.
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do NPCs with negative aspects -if they get their aspects tagged - have to spend the FP they 'earn' toward their natural negative refresh - or can they spend them in that same scene as it's happening to increase their rolls? in other words - does negative refresh negate when the players tag the NPCs?
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NPC Fate Points work just like PC Fate Points. Having a bigger Refresh for the Cap means they just start wtih no Fate Points. If they get FP, they work exactly hte same way as if a PC got FP.
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do NPCs with negative aspects -if they get their aspects tagged - have to spend the FP they 'earn' toward their natural negative refresh - or can they spend them in that same scene as it's happening to increase their rolls? in other words - does negative refresh negate when the players tag the NPCs?
Refresh and Fate points are semi separate. While refresh does determine how many Fate points you get at any refresh event during the game, you can easily gather up Fate points in other ways (like compels). The only way to get refresh is by letting go of powers (or getting more refresh at a milestone).
One thing about the use of aspects, since I feel that there is a bit of confusion, and I remember having the same issues there.
You can generally do 2 things with aspects: invoke and compel, both of which cost fate points.
A compel is pretty straight forward, it makes the character in question act in a way according to the aspect.
Invokes are good for 3 things:
- get +2 on any roll
- reroll any roll (someone made a chart once, for when it is better to take the +2 or when to reroll)
- invoke for effect
That last one is a bit weird, because it can pretty much be anything the table agrees on. Often an invoke for effect is used to start a compel on one or multiple targets. For example, you can invoke your high concept of wizard for effect that you hex all the light in the building, and the GM now compels everyone on the new found "darkness" aspect, because nobody can see a thing.
And then there is a third thing you can do with aspects, that's the tag. If anyone creates an aspect during the game, that aspect comes with a free tag. That tag can be spend for any of the invoke options above, the only difference is, that it does not cost a fate point to do so. That's what makes creating aspects in a conflict so powerful, it's basically free bonuses on your attacks.
If you want to compel someone with a newly created aspect, that's usually when you use the "invoke for effect" option.