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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Thessaly on June 05, 2012, 03:29:19 AM
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As we've seen throughout the Dresden Files, Names have power and meaning. The full and proper recitation of a name for the former, and clues as to their true nature in the latter. Monoc Securities, for instance --"Monoc" is derivative of two words, mon meaning one and oc meaning eye. It's one of our first hints as to the nature of the man in charge, Odin One-eye, Allfather.
To that end, the intent of this thread is to pool together what we know of all the names in the Dresden-verse for people curious and to otherwise occupy a few hours in good company.
We have several categories to delve into. People (broad subject - includes entities), places (areas and structures), and things (objects). Labels are pesky but can be useful for formatting. Contributions are greatly appreciated! As I don't want to start this off without the chance to talk to people, nor take away from the fun of posting said contributions, I'll start this off fairly simply and without a huge compilation of data. Of course, I will pool information as respectfully as possible and include citations where possible, both from this thread and piecemeal from others if the posters aren't available to do so themselves.
To narrow down my intentions: this is strictly Names, their origins and meanings, not who the people are, etcetera. Don't hesitate to add such, as I love theories and conversation, I'm just clarifying what will be collected. There's a lovely reference at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Dresden_Files_characters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Dresden_Files_characters) for character histories already. (Just remember, there are more people than listed there!)
So, let's start!
- People (presently formatted by last names)
Bob: No meaning, as it's not his true Name. It's my belief that Harry picked a Name intentionally devoid of reason to sever ties to Bob's past self. Possible connections: Bears striking similarities to Jack Kirby's creation, Etrigan, Merlin's demon half-brother, the son of the demon Belial. Merlin summons Etrigan and, unable to gain the creature's secrets, Merlin bonds the demon with Jason Blood, a knight in King Arthur's Camelot. This renders Jason immortal, though at times he considers this either penance or a curse. Etrigan resembles a squat, muscular humanoid with orange skin (the colour of Bob's eyes), horns, ears resembling bat wings. His DC Universe connections usually found him allied to the forces of good, mainly because of the alliance between the DC heroes and Jason Blood, a human to whom Etrigan is bound.
Carpenter, Michael: The name Michael is of Hebrew origin, meaning "who resembles God." Possible connections: {Biblical} Michael is the archangel (chief or principal angel) who defeats the dragon. He and Gabriel are angels given personal names in the canonical Bible. Many saints, emperors, and kings have bourne the name.
Carpenter, Molly: The name Molly is of Irish and Latin origin, meaning "star of the sea." Pet form of Mary (occasionally Margaret). In use since the late Middle Ages. Possible connections: In the past, "moll" had meant a prostitute or a gangster's girlfriend. (Making the use of this name uncommon prior to the late 20th century.)
Dresden, Harry: Nothing that fits yet. Family surname footnote: Dresden is the name of the capital city of the Free State of Saxony in Germany. Dresden has a long history as the capital and royal residence for the Electors and Kings of Saxony, who for centuries furnished the city with cultural and artistic splendour. Possible connections: The word Dresden means "people of the riverside forest." (Given the nature of Harry's name, as stated on WoJ, finding deeper meaning may be a fool's errand. Challenge accepted!) Possible connections: Similarities to Jack Kirby's creation, Jason Blood, a knight in King Arthur's Camelot. See reference under Bob. Jason Blood was bonded to Etrigan the demon by Merlin, who sought Etrigan's secrets. The immortality this bond granted him was often viewed a curse or penance. In one tale, Jason actually becomes Etrigan but later becomes himself once more. (Congruent of Ghost Story, wherein Harry becomes a spirit like Bob.)
Justine (no surname): The name is of Latin origin, meaning "fair." Justina was the original form. Possible connections: According to legend, Saint Justina (fourth century) was a Christian maiden who converted Cyprian, a powerful sorcerer.
Kumori: A Japanese word (kumori (hiragana くもり)) meaning cloudy or cloudy weather or shadow. Possible connections: Kumori is associated, if not an outright member, of the Black Council. Her actions in the Dresden books (which book? citation needed) were not those of a ruthless or heartless person. The Japanese words for black, Kuro, Kuroi, is noteworthy in the interpretation. (contributors: dimpwnc.)
Langtry, Arthur: The name Arthur is of Celtic origin appears to have been first found in the Latin form Artorius, which is of obscure origin. Other possible sources include artos, the Celtic word for "bear" and an Irish Gaelic word meaning "stone." Surname footnote An ancient name of several spellings derives either from the village of Langtree, near Wigan in Lancashire, or from Langtree near Torrington, in Devon. The traditional explanation for the name is "the high tree," such places being commonly the local tribal meeting place, however the Devon village name may be "the high tor." Possible connections: An obvious connection to Merlin (his position throughout the DF books) through the Arthurian legends by way of his first name. (contributors: dimpwnc.)
Luccio, Anastasia: Anastasia is of Greek origin, meaning "resurrection". From the word anastasis. Surname footnote: Luccio literally translates to "perch," so nothing relevant (yet). Possible connections: Body swapping from an older to a younger woman, or something foreshadowed for later. (contributors: Icecream)
Macanally, "Mac": Mac is a name of Gaelic origin and means "Son of." Surname footnote: An honest to goodness Irish name, not nearly as whimsical as it appears. The usual form of this name in Irish is Mac an Fhailghigh, the derivation of which is obscure (in modern Irish failgheach means poor man). These words are pronounced approximately MacAnally and this is quite a common alternative form of the name in English.
Marcone, John: John has a biblical reference, it was the name of the longest-lived of the 12 apostles. Surname footnote: Marcone is recorded in over one hunded spelling forms from the English Mark, dating back to Roman times. It originates from the popular pre-Christian baptismal name "Marcus", itself a development of the word "mar", meaning to gleam, although there is also a possible asscoiation with "Mars", the god of war. Possible connections: Bears some similarities to Vandal the Savage, a supervillain and sometimes ally of Jason Blood in DC Comics. Savage is immortal, and has plagued the earth with crime and violence since before the beginning of recorded human history. He is a brilliant tactician with immense technological prowess. He is one of DC's most persistent villains and has fought hundreds of heroes throughout history.
Mallory, Elaine: The name Elaine is of Greek origin, meaning "sun ray; shining light". French variant of Helen. Surname footnote: Mallory is an English surname thought to be derived from a French word meaning "beautiful." Possible connections: One potential choice is (author) Thomas Malory's Elaine who acted as bearer of the Holy Grail. The same Elaine who tricks Lancelot into sleeping with her, trapping him in the role of her lover. Also of note, In Once and Future King, like Elaine of Astolat, she also commits suicide -- which mirrors what she nearly accomplishes in White Night at the hands of a Skavis. (contributers: dimpwnc)
Martin (no surname): The name is of Latin origin, meaning "dedicated to Mars". The name originates with the Roman war god, Mars.
McCoy, Ebenezar: The name Ebenazar is of Hebrew origin, meaning "Stone of help." Surname footnote: McCoy is an Anglicisation of its Irish Gaelic form Mac Aodha, meaning "son of Aodh" (an old word for "Fire", a Celtic deity). Possible connection: The expression "The real McCoy", colloquially means "the genuine article." (Harry has used the idiom in the books -- Death Masks, chapter 14.) (contributors: Elegast, dimpwnc, and Serack.)
Morgan, Donald: The name Donald is of Gaelic origin, meaning "great chief; world mighty". Donald is one of the clan names of Scotland. (Recorded as Donald, Doneld, Donnell, and the patronymic Donaldson, it is derived from Mac Domhnall, or the son of Domhall, composed of the elements dubro meaning world and val -- to rule.) Surname footnote: Morgan is of Welsh, Irish, and Scottish origins. In Welsh origin it means either "great kingdom" or "great hundred". (contributors: dimpwnc.)
Murphy, Karrin: Karrin as a girl's name is a variant of Catherine (Greek), Karen (Danish) and Katherine (Greek), and the meaning of Karrin is "pure." Surname footnote: Murphy is an Anglicized version of two Irish surnames: Ó Murchadha/Ó Murchadh ("descendant of Murchadh"), and Mac Murchaidh/Mac Murchadh ("son of Murchadh") / derived from the Irish personal name Murchadh, which meant "sea-warrior" or "sea-battler". (Muir meaning "sea" and cath meaning "battle"). A stretch to imply meaning (a warrior) on so common a name, but it makes for good genealogy at least. Possible connections: The female Shining Knight (a play on words of Karrin's name) and the warrior woman Exoristos (The Exile in Greek), a companion of Jason Blood. Murphy's displacement and eventual loss of her job as a police officer make her an exile in similar fashion.
Raith, Lara: The name Lara is of Latin origin, and means "protection." From "Lares", referring to the individual gods of Roman households, the protectors of home and fields. Also possibly (Latin) "cheerful; famous". It may also be traced to the Greek Larissa. Surname footnote: a Wraith is an apparition of a living person supposed to portend his or her death. Possible connections: Lara might be a reference to Lara of the novel Dr. Zhivago. The Lara in that story is a quintessential femme fatale who uses her sexuality to seduce and control the men around her. She also has a tempestuous relationship with her mother's lover (at one point she tries to shoot him); she starts out somewhat in his thrall, but ends up manipulating him. (Sound familiar?) (contributors: dimpwnc.)
Raith, Thomas: The name Thomas is of Aramaic origin, and means "twin." Possible connections: {Biblical} one of the 12 apostles known as "doubting Thomas" as he has an unusual mixture of pessimism and zealous faith. Some say his full name was Judas Thomas (Judas the Twin), and the nickname distinguished him from Judas Iscariot.
Rudolph (no surname): The name is of Old German origin, and means "famous wolf."
Sanya (no surname): Sanya is a variant of the Arabic word Sani (masculine of Saniyya (feminine)) and means "splendid; brilliant; benevolent," et al. (No surname limits further connections to the sword.)
More later!
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Reserved for places & things. (Uncertain of how large a post's digit count is, so better safe than sorry.)
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Arctis Tor: Tor-- "high, rocky hill," O.E. torr "tower, rock." Obviously cognate with Gael. torr "lofty hill, mound," O.Welsh twrr "heap, pile;" and probably ultimately from L. turris "high structure" see tower). But sources disagree on whether the Celts borrowed it from the Anglo-Saxons or the other way round (shamelessly copied from here: http://etymonline.com/?term=tor). and Arctis relates to arctic/cold/winter
I'm not sure exactly how to best arrange this; feel free to adjust it to fit the format better.
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There's a theory bouncing around that Harry has some flavor of Power based on his ability to Name people and things. You might want to look that one up. Some I agree with (Lash, Mouse) others I think are a stretch (Shagnasty, Uri) but it could tie into what you're talking about here.
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not quite sure this is what you're looking for but...
Anastasia : From the Greek Ανάσταση Anástasi̱ meaning "resurrection." :D . Some forshadowing.
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This is some really well put together information!!! I think I used to be close to this articulate in highschool but the Army made me dumberer.
Dresden, Harry: The name Harry is of Old German origin, and the meaning of Harry is "home ruler." Family surname footnote: Dresden is the name of the capital city of the Free State of Saxony in Germany. Dresden has a long history as the capital and royal residence for the Electors and Kings of Saxony, who for centuries furnished the city with cultural and artistic splendour. Possibly irrelevant, the word Dresden means "people of the riverside forest."
If you haven't seen it before, here is Jim's explanation of how he came up with the name Harry Dresden (well parts of it, there are other outtakes from interviews that talk about mashing together his middle names into the mix based off of other magicians)
How Jim came up with the name "Harry Dresden"
Harry Dresden, the name itself, I had just watched a videotape of one of my favorite movies at the time, which was Cast a Deadly Spell, and the tape would stop, and I would rewind it and try to play past it and it wouldn’t go past, but at this part in that movie where the main character, Fred Ward’s character, H. Philip Lovecraft shows up at the gangster bar, and the gangster’s henchman comes walking up to him and says, ‘(sneering voice) Harry wants to see you.’ And Fred Ward goes, ‘Oh. Harry wants to see me.’ ‘Harry wants to see you now.’ And what I got to hear about six times as I tried to fast forward past the stuck part of the tape was ‘Harry wants to see me. Harry wants to see me. Harry wants to see’ like that. And then I said, ‘Okay, the heck with that, I’m going to try and find something on normal television, which I hate, because there’s commercials. And, so I’m skipping through channels, it’s like eleven thirty on a Friday night in Kansas City, and I actually find a channel that’s showing reruns of Babylon 5. So it’s like, ‘Okay, acceptable.’ And I’m watching the episode of Amazon 5 (sic), with this ‘Harry wants to see…’ stuck in my head, and then Box Lightner (sp?) is on there playing his character with (deep voice) the gravelly Box Lightner voice, and he’s there talking about various military attacks that have happened throughout history, and one of the attacks that he mentions is (deep voice) 'Dresden'. ‘Harry wants to’ Dresden, it’s just stuck in my head. ‘Harry wants’ Dresden, okay fine, Harry Dresden, character name, get out of my head. And that’s where the name came from.
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Reserved for places & things. (Uncertain of how large a post's digit count is, so better safe than sorry.)
The post character limit is 20k including code. Usually when I paste the text into word, the character count that can be blocked is closer to 19.7kish (Yes I have hit this cap many times with my own reference posts)
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I don't know if these are too tenuous, but here goes:
Rawlins, Henry: last name possibly an homage to "Easy Rawlins", an African-American noir detective by Walter Mosley ("Devil in a Blue Dress" is the first in the series).
McCoy, Ebenezar: possibly a reference to the expression, "The real McCoy", which means "the genuine article." (JB is aware of the expression, as Harry has used it a few times). First name: Hebrew, "Stone of Help."
Elaine Mallory: Last name possibly a reference to Thomas Malory, author of Le Morte d'Arthur. First name is greek for "brightness"; could also be a reference to one of the many Elaines in the Arthurian legend. One potential choice is Malory's Elaine who acted as bearer of the Holy Grail. IIRC, this is the same Elaine who tricks Lancelot into sleeping with her, trapping him in the role of her lover.
Raith, Lara: --edit, sorry, I didn't see you already had this one, but it's a different potential reference than the one above--Lara might be a reference to Lara of the novel Dr. Zhivago. The Lara in that story is a quintessential femme fatale who uses her sexuality to seduce and control the men around her. She also has a tempestuous relationship with her mother's lover (at one point she tries to shoot him); she starts out somewhat in his thrall, but ends up manipulating him. (Sound familiar?)
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Not much to add, but I recall mention that somebody found out that Fitz (maybe Fitzgerald) meant bastard. Which led to the speculation that he might be McFinn Jr. Of course, I think Jim put something of a kabosh on this speculation, in that he hasn't got any long term plans for Fitz's character.
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McCoy, Ebenezar: possibly a reference to the expression, "The real McCoy", which means "the genuine article." (JB is aware of the expression, as Harry has used it a few times). First name: Hebrew, "Stone of Help."
Here is a great analysis on the name McCoy by Elegast found here
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,30581.msg1297607.html#msg1297607
Amusing coincidence: Mac Aodha (MacCoy) means son of Fire in Gaelic! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCoy_(surname)) I wonder if Harry's predilection for fire is a common trait in his bloodline.
I think this is quite awesome.
Not much to add, but I recall mention that somebody found out that Fitz (maybe Fitzgerald) meant bastard. Which led to the speculation that he might be McFinn Jr. Of course, I think Jim put something of a kabosh on this speculation, in that he hasn't got any long term plans for Fitz's character.
I wrote a lot about that here
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,27953.msg1192958.html#msg1192958
Edit: and I linked to it yesterday in response to something else the OP posted about.
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Updating after work. Interesting so far!
@Serak: I never saw that article, re: Jim's naming of Harry. Thanks for that!
Having read his Codex Alera series and then the Dresden Files, I quickly took note of the significance Jim often attributed to names. As with all things, sometimes the meaning behind a name or place is accidental. For instance, Dresden being the seat of kings in Germany is illuminating, but probably insignificant; it's not like Harry's going to bear one of the swords. (To stir the pot, there's more than one Dresden, although she's probably assuming another surname?) To that end I'm sure I'll be posting irrelevant information in parts that sound interesting, but which will likely get pruned or otherwise truncated later for brevity and ease of reading. As Joe Friday from Dragnet was so fond of saying, "Just the facts, ma'am." It's a place to start, anyway.
Most of my information as to the meaning and significance of names is largely things I've picked up over the years, or purloined from the web at large via google. Some of it may be a little fanciful, as we try to read meaning into it like a tarot card, but it's fun nonetheless. Something to note: there are perfectly wonderful compilations of character histories on wikipedia, which is why this thread serves as more of a speculative look into the meaning of the names involved. Some of it will be simple, some of it will be eye-opening; they can't all be gems and that's fine. :)
Also, my thanks to everyone for picking it up and running with it!
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@Serak: I never saw that article, re: Jim's naming of Harry. Thanks for that!
Ah, when you get the time, I highly recommend that you go through my "DF WoJ compilation" which is stickied in the WoJ section and also linked in my sig. It is absolutely chocked full of tidbits like that one. It's also something like 14 posts that are nearly 20k characters each so it might take a little while to get through it.
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I'm quoting from the Dresden Files Wikia article (http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Lasciel) here:
The name Lasciel most likely derives from the Latin, "lascivus", which can mean: wanton, playful, frisky, lustful, lewd, lascivious, etc. This is consistent with Lasciel's description as a temptress. It would then appear that "-el" was artfully affixed to the end, mimicking the Hebraic, theophoric naming convention of having a word for God in the name. For instance, one translation of "Uriel" is, "God is my light". Some credibility for this theory is that most angels in popular cultres have names that end in -el, and The Dresden Files convention of mixing and matching languages.
A much less likely origin of the name could be the Italian "lasciare", most often meaning "to leave (something behind)", which is used in one of Dante's most famous lines in his Inferno: "lasciate ogne speranza voi ch'intrate"/ "all hope abandon, ye who enter".
There have been other topics delving into the subject of Lasciel's name... I'll look really quick and see if I can find them and will come back and edit this post with links if I do.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32214.0.html
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--> Updated to here <-- minus places&things which will be affixed shortly. Also trimmed some irrelevancy and broadened others for the sake of fun.
There's a theory bouncing around that Harry has some flavor of Power based on his ability to Name people and things. You might want to look that one up. Some I agree with (Lash, Mouse) others I think are a stretch (Shagnasty, Uri) but it could tie into what you're talking about here.
The act of naming implies all beings with independent will have the ability to Name something, especially true of Wizards. When Harry shortens Uriel's name to Uri and dropping El, literally God, the removal of God from Uriel is a corruption of the archangel's name and a blow to his beliefs. It has an ominous significance. Call a man something (murderer, criminal, animal) and chances are eventually he'll believe it or otherwise act on or because of it.
Let all who Name things truly use care and wisdom.
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Kumori Japanese for cloudiness/shadow.
Langtry, Arthur Last name is Old English for "tall tree" or "dweller by the long tree"; old established Devon family. First name: Arthurian legend is at least here a clear connection, given his position as Merlin. Etymology: several schools of thought; potentially Welsh for "Bear Man" (arth-gwr), or Latin for "brightest star" (Arturus).
Morgan, Donald Last name is Welsh in origin; actual meaning of name is disputed, with meanings ranging from "m'or" (sea) to "mawr" (big) and "cant" (100, cycle) to "can" (bright). Could also potentially (and more appropriately) be related to the Irish Murchadh ("sea warrior"). Donald: Gaelic; either an Irish Gaelic form of the Hebrew name Daniel, which means (appropriately) dan+el: "judge from God" or Scots Gaelic, from "Domhnall" (world ruler).
Mallory, Elaine: The name Elaine is of Greek origin, and the meaning of Elaine is "sun ray; shining light". French variant of Helen. Surname footnote: Mallory is an English surname thought to be derived from a French word meaning "beautiful." Possible connections: One potential choice is (author) Thomas Malory's Elaine who acted as bearer of the Holy Grail. The same Elaine who tricks Lancelot into sleeping with her, trapping him in the role of her lover. (Citation needed.) (contributers: dimpwnc)
McCoy, Ebenezar: The name Ebenazar is of Hebrew origin and means "Stone of help." Surname footnote: McCoy is an Anglicisation of its Irish Gaelic form Mac Aodha, meaning "son of Aodh" (an old word for "Fire", a Celtic deity). Possible connection: The expression "The real McCoy", colloquially means "the genuine article." (Harry has used the idiom in the books - citation needed.) (contributers: Elegast, dimpwnc, and Serack.)
Here are the requested citations:
Example of "real mccoy" usage:
[Harry]:"Valmont duped the third party into taking a decoy. Then she grabbed the real McCoy and ran." (Ch. 14, Death Masks.)
I'm not sure what citations you want here; it's probably TMI, but it was fun skimming Morte. Feel free to pull out whatever you want, or leave it all here if it's too much speculative detail.
-Elaine of Astolat: Tennyson's "The mirror crack'd from side to side/the curse has come upon me cried/the Lady of Shalott." In Morte, she falls in love with Lancelot, cares for him when he is wounded, and, when he spurns her, dies of grief[XVIII,XX]. The physical description of Elaine Mallory and Elaine of Astolat are quite similar.
-Elaine of Corbenic, Pelles' daughter: bears the Holy Grail a few times[XI,II],[XII,I]. Falls in love with Lancelot and tricks him into sleeping with her--twice[XI,II-III],[XI,VIII]. Via an enchantment, he believes he is sleeping with Guinevere. Elaine has Lance's kid--Galahad [XI,III]. Lance goes mad with grief, and they stay together for a while [XII,IV-VI]; that's the end of her story in Morte. In Once and Future King, like Elaine of Astolat, she also commits suicide.
[edited to add] One question--are you only interested in etymologies, not in popular culture references? If the goal is actually finding JB's inspiration/allusions, pop culture refs are probably significant/useful. Some names also clearly are pop culture refs, e.g. the tiny tinkerbell-fairy Elidee->LED, the WOJ that explained the origin of Harry Dresden's name, and another WOJ I remember stumbling across that said that Billy and Georgia's names came from a TV program (I did a brief check and couldn't find it....Serack, as resident WOJ rockstar, do you remember it?)
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WOJ I remember stumbling across that said that Billy and Georgia's names came from a TV program (I did a brief check and couldn't find it....Serack, as resident WOJ rockstar, do you remember it?)
Billy and Georgia cam from Ally McBeal, which Shannon watched a lot of while Jim was writing.
*looking for the WOJ now*
*I completely failed at finding the right WOJ. Help someone? Anyone? Help?*
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Billy and Georgia cam from Ally McBeal, which Shannon watched a lot of while Jim was writing.
*looking for the WOJ now*
*I completely failed at finding the right WOJ. Help someone? Anyone? Help?*
Yah, that's right although I am having trouble finding it too. Jim didn't even realize it conciously at the time. I think it was years later when Shanon was watching reruns that he realized it.
The forum search engine is giving me a response full of nothing (what I call it when I get 25 hits without the actual search term in them). I thought it might be in the atlanta signing, but it isn't in the transcripts.
Maybe it was in one of the 2 audio interviews he did late last year. It was a rather recent WoJ
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Yah, that's right although I am having trouble finding it too. Jim didn't even realize it conciously at the time. I think it was years later when Shanon was watching reruns that he realized it.
The forum search engine is giving me a response full of nothing (what I call it when I get 25 hits without the actual search term in them). I thought it might be in the atlanta signing, but it isn't in the transcripts.
Maybe it was in one of the 2 audio interviews he did late last year. It was a rather recent WoJ
I don't know about the audio interviews, but the WoJ is typed out explicitly here
http://www.orbitbooks.net/2011/04/26/something-borrowed/
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Yeah, it was definitely the intro blurb he included before "Something Borrowed" in Side Jobs. :)
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Ahh yes. Yaknow, I have been wanting to record each of those blerbs into the WoJ section. I've tried to work a request up the ladder for permission from Jim to write them down vertabatum but the closest I have got is the Admin staff saying "He's buisy, but it should be no problem"
The next time I do some WoJ work I will probably start a new topic quoting those intro's plus the intro to WTTJ, which also has some interesting tidbits.
It's frustrating when such a tantilizing WoJ escapes my being able to easily reference it because I don't have it in the WoJ section. I knew I had read it rather recently (I read most of Side Jobs earlier this year), and hadn't really been familiar with it before.
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--> Updated to here <--
Some nice work so far. I seemingly lost the bulk of some of my extrapolations (mostly in regards to the swords and their bearers) somewhere along the way and I'm rebuilding it from memory and researching information I did the first time around. Not to mention this little endeavour will let me savour re-reading the books in anticipation of Cold Days that much more.
Here are the requested citations:
Example of "real mccoy" usage:
[Harry]:"Valmont duped the third party into taking a decoy. Then she grabbed the real McCoy and ran." (Ch. 14, Death Masks.)
I'm not sure what citations you want here; it's probably TMI, but it was fun skimming Morte. Feel free to pull out whatever you want, or leave it all here if it's too much speculative detail.
That's excellent. In the case of DF-specific information, as this is a spoiler zone, I'm not worried about spoiler information being displayed. In the meantime I'm condensing requested citations to book name and chapter number. In the case of non-DF information, it'll mostly be for information I can't verify myself at an earnest glance online, and the name of the source would be wonderful. (Book or movie title, author or director name, etc.) If it's on Wikipedia, that'll likely pop in a normal search I'll do to verify so I wouldn't worry much about that.
One question--are you only interested in etymologies, not in popular culture references? If the goal is actually finding JB's inspiration/allusions, pop culture refs are probably significant/useful. Some names also clearly are pop culture refs, e.g. the tiny tinkerbell-fairy Elidee->LED, the WOJ that explained the origin of Harry Dresden's name, and another WOJ I remember stumbling across that said that Billy and Georgia's names came from a TV program (I did a brief check and couldn't find it....Serack, as resident WOJ rockstar, do you remember it?)
I'm not certain yet. I'd like to know of course, but I'm tempted not to re-compile that information. If there's a connection between why the name was chosen and who the character is, absolutely. Otherwise, if it only fills the object of trivia, I'd say mentioning it would be lovely but I won't compile it, preferring to leave it in the WoJ so it fills a purpose too.
To this end, I added a 'possible connection' tag to infer certain things not immediately found in the meaning of the names, but rather connections to popular culture or other books (or medium) unrelated to the Dresden Files. A wonderful example of this is that you (dimpwnc) edited your reply later (after I included it) to amend that Elaine also committed suicide in two of the Arthurian tales you read. That provided a connection with what the Skavis did to her and her near-suicide attempt in the DF books. That's definitely what I'd love to include; more of the same if you any of you fine and worldly folks can find it!
Jim's frequent use of paraphrasing movies and literature has always been one of the things that cemented the Dresden books for my fertile imagination. It makes them more real when you can think of them existing in the same place as your own. Recognising little tidbits, be it a quote or a similarity to another work, always gives me a good laugh and makes me feel closer to the author.
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So, I've been thinking and I've some new connections to many different characters that mostly spin some old Arthurian legends and, well, comic books. Some of this is inspired by Jack Kirby, a comic book artist and editor.
My theories began with similarities between Bob and Etrigan the Demon (he was one of Jack Kirby's DC Comics creations). Etrigan was the son of the demon Belial, and half-brother to Merlin. He has orange skin (the same colour as Bob's eyes), horns, and ears shaped like bat wings.
Merlin summoned Etrigan to gain his secrets and unable to do so, bound him to Jason Blood, a knight in King Arthur's court. This rendered Jason immortal (similarities to Harry) and he often thought of it as penance or a curse. After the Fall of Camelot Jason Blood and Madame Xanadu (those of you that read Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur, she is identified as Nimue, youngest sister of Morgana/Morgaine Le Fay) keep traveling England for an unspecified time, assembling a rag-tag team of Dark Ages based heroes and villains, like Vandal Savage (solid ties to Marcone), the female Shining Knight and the warrior woman Exoristos (The Exile in Greek -- solid ties to Karrin Murphy) to fight Mordru and the Questing Queen (connections to Cowl). As eventually they parted way, Jason Blood resurfaces in recent times, becoming a prominent demonologist in Gotham City.
Etrigan is a demon from Hell who, despite his violent tendencies, usually finds himself allied to the forces of good, mainly because of the alliance between the heroic characters of the DC Universe and Jason Blood, a human to whom Etrigan is bound. Etrigan is followed by the long-lived Morgaine le Fey, who lusts for Merlin's secrets. That leads to Etrigan's first major battle. Over the years, Etrigan both clashes with and occasionally aids Earth's heroes, guided by his own whims and Jason's attempts to turn his infernal power to good use.
Remarkable what comic books can inadvertently shed light on.
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that last name for Michael's family: Carpenter. As in--the profession of Jesus' earthly father and most likely the profession he himself followed until his ministry? It's also more literal as Michael is in the construction trade.
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Talking of which (and apologies for being slightly off-topic) can any of you Americans tell this poor Brit WHY Harry was appalled that the Carpenters named their son Harry? There is a sports commentator named Harry Carpenter in the UK but I don't know of any other reference and it's obviously a joke in the book which I Just Don't Get... ::)
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Talking of which (and apologies for being slightly off-topic) can any of you Americans tell this poor Brit WHY Harry was appalled that the Carpenters named their son Harry? There is a sports commentator named Harry Carpenter in the UK but I don't know of any other reference and it's obviously a joke in the book which I Just Don't Get... ::)
I assumed that Harry Carpenter sounds too much like hairy carpenter.
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I assumed that Harry Carpenter sounds too much like hairy carpenter.
LOL ;D
To get back on topic, Marcone is not his real name either. I had assumed his real name would be something in the order of Gianmarco Something (Rossi maybe, as that's the Italian equivalent of Smith? ;D). The suffix -one is Italian for "big", so Gianmarco becomes John Marco(ne), implying that he is bigger in his new persona than he was before. Etymology, ftw!
Or, of course, he COULD just be called Marcone because he's a Mafia boss and his name is (sort of) like Capone...
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I assumed that Harry Carpenter sounds too much like hairy carpenter.
Harry anything can always sound like "hairy". But there are worse last names to go next to it than Carpenter.
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LOL ;D
To get back on topic, Marcone is not his real name either. I had assumed his real name would be something in the order of Gianmarco Something (Rossi maybe, as that's the Italian equivalent of Smith? ;D). The suffix -one is Italian for "big", so Gianmarco becomes John Marco(ne), implying that he is bigger in his new persona than he was before. Etymology, ftw!
Major life-altering changes coincides, betimes, a change in one's name. (Probably the only time, really.) The old name has no more relevance to who they are now than hair as a material binding to someone that shaved their head. There's no magical connection. It's theirs, but it no longer applies to them as how they are now. Besides, in choosing his own Name one assumes there to be greater abundance of meaning involved in the act that applies to their person.
Hairy Carpenter, ha!
I just figured Harry was dismayed as any boy or girl who has been teased about their name growing up. Incredulity that parents would willingly name someone with the same name is par for the course.
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Major life-altering changes coincides, betimes, a change in one's name. (Probably the only time, really.) The old name has no more relevance to who they are now than hair as a material binding to someone that shaved their head. There's no magical connection. It's theirs, but it no longer applies to them as how they are now. Besides, in choosing his own Name one assumes there to be greater abundance of meaning involved in the act that applies to their person.
I wouldn't be so sure. Have you seen this WoJ?
I read the short story from Marcone's point of view, Even Hand, and I noticed that John Marcone is not his real name. Is that going to be significant?
Sure is if somebody tries to cast a spell at him using the name John Marcone! That would be a big deal. We'll have to see how that works out. Actually the character that's really interesting is the Mirror Mirror universe Marcone, and we'll get to him in a few books.
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I wouldn't be so sure. Have you seen this WoJ?
If anything, it only confirms the theory (mixed with something I mentioned in another thread. (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32594.0.html)
However, that conversation has its own place at the moment, and isn't really part of the nature of this one.