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DF Spoilers / Re: A thought About Butters
« on: November 26, 2020, 01:22:22 AM »
Look if AfroRussian can have detectable lineage to Saladin, then I'm quite sure Butters can have detectable line to Genghis Khan
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If we run with that idea what is getting Obliviated are the remnants of ancient primordial earthly spirits that never learned to play nice with the new status quo instituted by TWG. This creates some distance between the Oblivion War and the Outer Gates and explains why the Archive isn't hunting nemesis and the Walkers instead.
Okay, so if we go with the theory that they existed independently or were created to function independently my theory that a chunk of Lucifer got tossed outside and that made the gates is still possible.
I agree with you that the lesser ones may be corrupted gods but I think there's a distinct difference between the Outsiders and the Oblivion War. If there's a connection between the White Court and the Outsiders why would the Raiths take part in the Oblivion War as soldiers and why would Winter keep a mature Archive on the sidelines? She's a Lady/Queen level power with less restrictions. Unless she's the tactical nuke they keep in reserve it doesn't make much strategic sense to me.
My question is really were the Gates made by the Creator, a traitor (possibly seduced from outside), a Remnant of Outside left inside, or were they made by accident?
A traitor/remnant could explain why HWWBesides is known as nemesis or explain the story of Adam and Eve.
If something Magical is killed in the Never Never does it retain corporeal form or decay into ectoplasm?
I've repeatedly said some number of universes are created that are less than all possible choices. To oversimplify my head canon, there are two universes created by every act of free will. One where the actor chooses to act one way and another where they choose to act in a different way. Each choice is a choice to act beyond and in opposition to what an otherwise accurate deterministic model of the Dresdenverse would have predicted.
Determinists would say that the appearance of choice is an illusion and all biology, reason, thinking, etc. just boils down to physics.
What if there are thousands of possible choices and two universes result?
The problem with Free Will as Jim uses it, is that it is contrived and not subject to analysis. Thousands of choices got Harry to whatever point he gets to. By the time you get to whatever the event is, there really aren't any choices left to make, assuming that Dresden is who he is. You've already made them prior to that instant. Which is what Uriel is saying.
I still see no difference between love as an emotion and love as a force of virtue, heck, as a force of creation itself for that matter.
But true love is in the same category as the love that empowers Ammorachius. Or rather there is no difference.
Call it a pet Titan if you want, Jim muddies the water so much that what he chooses to call what makes little difference. He can call out the Titan if he wishes. So says Battle Ground. And he could maybe call out any critter in Demonreach. Did we read the same book?
These gods are primal elemental forces of the universe. They existed, according to WOJ, before Reality was made...in some form.
The new gods are Mab and the like. Mortals with mantles.
Sibelis is onto something, I think. I think the distinction between Gods and Angels is more about where they draw their power from, but in terms of origins they are all about the same. Considering the fact that they a existed before time (if you can really have such a thing), I would say that who is older isn't really relevant or even something that can be answered. Cause and effect didn't exist yet!
My theory has always been that the "Walkers" and such beings are the equivalent of archangels and the Old Ones are TWG level. But the main difference is what they are. Destroyers versus a Creator. I suspect the Old Ones cannot create a universe or anything meaningful, and therefore are unable to truly combat TWG. They can only destroy things, but they never can solidify or capitalise on territory they reclaim via destruction. TWG by contrast is taking up all the real estate with Creation, and every win grants even more space and makes it harder for the Outsiders and Old Ones to get that space back.
But that's just a theor
Emphasis added.
I'd say your's is an odd definition of against. It's often in one's best interest to act against one's nature.
I disagree with the intellect over emotion/instinct definition of free will. I'd more say free will is the ability to actually make a choice as opposed to a deterministic and mechanical view of reality in which we just respond to cause with effect, whether emotionally or intellectually.
If everything is a choice and every choice results in a reality where the consequences of that choice plays out, does free will even exist? Every choice must be made, so no choice is volitional. If it's not volitional, it's not a choice. Thus if everything is a choice and:
It seems inevitable because emotions are the expression of your nature which is linked with your spiritual power which is linked to your magic. Magic is strongly linked with emotions.
in the DF virtue and emotion are not mutually exclusive. They're the same thing in the DF, don't like it, argue with Jim on that one, not me..
Yeah, fine line between ordinary making love/lust, which brings pleasure upon which the White Court feeds, and true love. I think true love for a White Court Vamp is like Daedalus flying too close to the sun, the intensity of it literally burns them.
The expansion of IndoEuropean pantheons being the inspiration for the ancient god wars makes sense so almost all of them don't work. But how can we say that they are recent arrivals to Creation when Uriel says he was fighting wars before the planet formed (so at least 5 billion years ago)? Also who's to say all of these fights over creation weren't happening back during the paleolithic, this could just be the current edition?
Were they primeval beings who sided with TWG and took up mantles of power that were made for them, locking them into a role, or did TWG make them as expressions of his will and they are indistinct beyond that?
But that doesn't mesh all that well with Behind saying in the Ghost Story flashback that they ruled 'here' before and will again. He could technically be referring to the space itself, but that's not a great explanation.
What's going on with Outside and Outsiders is confusing. From what I've gathered from Lovecraft fans is that Outsiders are supposed to be confusing, so maybe that's the point.
Heck, TWG didn't need to do it all by themselves. Given the "Most Stories Are True" nature of the setting most creation myths could be true in some form or another and upon ascendancy to being Top God as it were TWG nailed the rules down and started to enforce things.
Also, if that's the case where TWG nailed created a bubble of reality out of pre-Reality that leaves us with three choices for the origin of the Gates: 1) they were created by accident, 2) they were a necessary byproduct of the creation process 3) someone/thing made them from the inside. #1 is my theory above, #2 we would need some confirmation from the Mothers or something, and #3 is the Nemesis thread that's going on.
Given that they leave a body full of ectoplasm behind it's almost as if they are to the Never-Never as the Never-Never is the materium.
I would say acting against your nature is acting against your emotional makeup, against your instincts. It is based on the idea that animals (and supernatural beings) have only instincts and never act against their nature while humans are unique in having a soul, free will (and maybe superior intelligence) and can act against their animal base instinct because of higher motivations and because they want to be more than their animal self.
Harry has chosen how he would live. Making choices which damage that perception of self would change him for the worse.