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Messages - psuliin

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OK, I have to ask something. I know that "BAT" refers to the series finale in 4 or 5 books. But what do the letters stand for?

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DF Reference Collection / Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« on: January 15, 2013, 05:59:39 PM »
My bet here is that Simon's "death curse" looked like a major explosion followed by collapse of his fortress, and there was no checking for his body without moving hundreds of tons of rubble.

I think the White Council would do that if they had to. If Simon were taken alive by the Red Court and turned then the damage to the Council would be incalculable. They simply had to verify that he was dead, or find him if he was not.

But there's reason to believe that this didn't happen. In Summer Knight we find a description of the aftermath of Archangel.

"The Wardens said that they couldn't be sure, but it looked like someone let the killers in past the defenses. They didn't get away unscathed. There were the remains of half a dozen nobles of the Red Court. Many of their warriors. But they killed Simon and the rest."

The only way they could get a description like this would be if they could go in and see for themselves. WoJ confirms this, talking about the effects of a death curse: "See what happened to all the vampires around Simon when they assaulted his compound immediately prior to the onstage events in Summer Knight." (emphasis added) It certainly sounds as though the effects of Simon's death curse could be seen by someone. It even suggests that his body was actually there. But if it was not then the White Council would still have to verify his death one way or another before they could sleep at night.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« on: January 15, 2013, 08:52:27 AM »
Like I said, if in fact Simon's body was never found then that should have set of all kinds of alarms in the White Council. Them simply assuming that he was dead and that the body had been destroyed or removed is the least likely of all possibilities.

First, it's just never wise to assume that a member of the Senior Council is dead until you see the body. Harry himself has cheated death, and he doesn't have nearly the power, subtlety, or experience of someone like Simon Petrovich.

But even more important, the WC could not afford to make that assumption. If they were wrong, then the logical assumption was that Simon had been taken alive by the Red Court and that a member of the Senior Council was in danger of being turned into a vampire. If that happened then the Reds would gain an enormously powerful new member and a fatal load of the WC's most secret information. The had to either make sure that Simon was dead or find him (and either rescue him or kill him).

I grant that the case for Simon = Cowl is a strong one, but if it turns out to be true then the story needs to explain how Simon convinced the WC he was dead, and "the body was missing" is not going to do that.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« on: January 14, 2013, 11:08:44 PM »
If they are skilled enough to fake being low-level practitioners, perhaps.

Of course. My point was that even a Warden (Justin) was able to take two apprentices and keep them secret from the White Council until they were skilled enough to fake the Council's tests (Harry never got the chance to, of course). If Justin could do it then presumably others could. So it seems likely that there are several powerful practitioners out there who are either completely unknown to the Council or who are more powerful than the Council realizes they are.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« on: January 14, 2013, 09:07:01 PM »
Harry and Elaine were unknown to the White Council while they were being trained by Justin DuMorne (who was not only a member of the WC himself, but a warden). Harry didn't become known to the Council until he killed DuMorne.

We know this because Elaine disappeared after DuMorne's death and showed up later in California. The White Council tested her, but she deliberately threw the test and was not inducted. However there's no indication that they asked who had trained her (even though she clearly had been trained), or that they even cared. Elaine might not have come to their attention at all if she hadn't tried to operate openly.

So it seems clear that people of WC-level power can and do operate outside the White Council, and even do so without their knowledge.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« on: January 14, 2013, 07:18:14 AM »
One more piece of evidence that Cowl = SP: Cowl seems to be closely and recently acquainted with the wardens and how they feel about Dresden. That implies someone either on the Senior Council, very close to the SC, a leader of the wardens, or some combination of the three. Simon Petrovich fits all of those parameters.

There are two points that I think may make this theory less certain, however.

First, while the wizards listed in the OP are the only SC-level wizards named in the novels so far, LTW clearly indicated that there were several others who might have been tapped to the Senior Council. Whether any of those have the contacts with the Wardens necessary to say some of the things Cowl has said is unknown.

Second, I think several things suggest that Simon Petrovich's body was found at Archangel. WoJ talked about the vampires found "around Simon," seemingly destroyed by his death curse. And also if his body had NOT been found then I think that would have been noteworthy. I certainly wouldn't presume that a member of the Senior Council was dead until I saw the body (and maybe not even then), and I don't think other members of the SC would do so either. Even more important though, if Simon's body had NOT been found then one obvious possibility would be that the Reds had taken him alive. And that would be a top-priority emergency for the Senior Council, due to the possibility of Simon being turned and converted into a member of the Red Court. That would be a disaster. The fact that this never came up leads me to think that Simon's body was found at Archangel.

Now, another poster suggested that Simon/Cowl could have died and then used Corpsetaker-style body-jumping to escape. But if he did that then how did his new body sustain the serious injuries that we believe he suffered?

On balance, I think the weight of evidence is slightly in favor of the theory, but some questions do remain.

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DF Spoilers / Re: This is an ON TOPIC discussion board
« on: January 13, 2013, 06:53:38 AM »
So me commenting on threads that were here before I joined is frowned upon?  :-\
Not necessarily. Generally Thread Necromancy is held to mean commenting on threads that have lain dormant for several weeks or months, unless the commenter adds something really revolutionary to the thread.

If a thread that predates you is still active, or at least dormant for only a week or two, I don't think anyone will mind.

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