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Messages - babel2uk

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16
DFRPG / Re: Wards and Thresholds
« on: November 15, 2010, 10:59:22 AM »
However, the threshold imposes 2 refresh worth of penalty to the vampire's powers and the vampire loses its supernatural strength - it is reduced to inhuman. Furthermore, the threshold imposes a -2 penalty to all of the vampire's rolls. Therefore, the vampire rolls at +4 against your Ward of 6, and its chances to break through are lower.

I'd have thought that since the ward and the threshold occupy the same boundary, and wards are supposed to be an advanced immune system for thresholds, that the ward takes precedence, so there's no reduction in the vampire's power until they try to breach the threshold itself (i.e. once they've reduced the ward to the same value as the threshold). I may be wrong - if so point me to the relevant paragraph.

I'm also puzzled as to how it reduces the vampire's attack roll as well as their damage bonus from their strength - the rulebook says that it only reduces damage by reducing the atatck roll if the damage bonus has been reduced to 0 - which it hasn't been if they've still got inhuman strength.

17
DFRPG / Re: How do you make Thaumaturgy casting interesting?
« on: November 15, 2010, 09:57:37 AM »
Actually, that isn't entirely correct. Even if you got 4 discipline, calling power is dangerous. You might roll a -4 (1 in 81 chance) and take huge backlash and fallout.

I've seen that happen 3 times in a row for one of the PCs in my game. The other PCs are now really wary about her casting any spells at all.  :D

18
DFRPG / Re: Wards and Thresholds
« on: November 15, 2010, 09:54:21 AM »
Now, if there was a hostile caster of some sort, attempting to cast spells at or into the cottage, in order to breach the Ward around the cottage, either to damage the Ward of someone/something inside, they would need to be able to direct a Legendary (+11) shift spell, just to get 1 shift of effect past both the Threshold and the Ward.

The way I understand wards is that the caster would only need to get +9 shifts to breach the ward. Thresholds don't add on to wards, they simply allow them to be created over a large area. Without a threshold you can only establish a ward over a very small area (so there's no problem with warding a locker, or a toilet seat). If you have a threshold to work with you can cover the area covered by that threshold. Thresholds generally are very weak compared to what's easily achieveable with a ward. You have to be somewehere really special to have a threshold above 4 or 5, a basic ward can quite easily be double that, with bells and whistles on top.

From YS p277

Quote
Wards don’t have a “scale” concern, the way that veils do, and they cannot move. They are almost always tied to a particular place’s natural
thresholds—think of them as a super-boosted immune system—so they are limited by the size of that threshold. Without a threshold they can only be set up to cover a small area at most—usually a point of transition such as a doorway or intersection.

19
DFRPG / Re: Magic can make you rich! (Wait, no it can't)
« on: November 15, 2010, 09:32:23 AM »
METHOD TO GET RICH:
Transmute base metals to gold, or conjure gold out of thin air.

WHY IT WON'T WORK:
As with the other conjurations/transmutations everything has a duration. While it's not impossible for someone to conjure up gold or transmute another metal into gold, sooner or later that gold will return to the base metal or vanish into thin air.

Another reason - and it's pure speculation - conjured/transmuted gold isn't as effective in magical applications as the real thing.

STORY IDEA: NB This is more of a background idea than a specific storyline. Someone has already conjured up a huge amount of gold. A staggering amount in fact, possibly conjured to pay for Napoleon's empire building. Unfortunately the wizard in question died just after Waterloo. This in and of itself, is not the problem. The problem lies in what happened to the conjured gold. The conjuration was very well done, designed to last many mortal lifetimes. And over the past three centuries the gold has been dispersed across the globe. While some of it was crafted into plates, chalices, jewelery etc, much of it was in the form of coins and bullion. Coins and bullion that has since been passed around, melted down and used for a variety of other purposes, including electronic componants in aircraft, missiles and satellites. And the duration has just come to an end. What starts off as a series of mysterious electronic failures in aircraft, escalates as several key satellites begin to fail. Museums and private collectors report thefts of valuable gold artifacts from the Napoleonic wars.

For a more specific storyline, perhaps the wizard in question linked his conjured gold to an item (kind of a sympathetic link for his entire gold conjuration). Some nasty enemy warlocks have gotten their hands on the item and have ascertained that they can make key sections of one country's defence network stop working if they can dispel the magic on the key item.

The item in question was in the hands of the apprentice to the original wizard (himself now a wizard of some repute) and he's been regularly maintianing the spell because he knows what the gold has been used for. Unfortunately he's never been able to duplicate his former master's expertise and his own enchantments can only maintain it for a few years at a time. The PCs are asked to investigate his murder (or maybe he's a friend to them and they decide on their own to find his killers), and discover the item to have been stolen. Now they have to work out who has it and why.

If you use the idea of the gold being transmuted rather than conjured from nothing, and don't want to explore the possibilities of the gold having been used in electronics, then you have the option of the PCs being brought in to investigate several high profile gold artifact thefts, where the artifact has been replaced by an exact duplicate in lead. In this scenario you can ignore the apprentice and the key item, but you can explore what happens when a large amount gold in one of the world's bullion stores is suddenly found to have been replaced by lead.

20
DFRPG / Re: Magical items and non-magical PCs
« on: November 12, 2010, 11:03:06 AM »
From the box on page 109 (emphasis mine):

Quote
Powered Props

A player may want to take a prop aspect for an item that has supernatural power attached to it, to signify a “trademark” item (think King Arthur and Excalibur). This is a great idea, but keep in mind that your character may need to invest other resources (such as stunts, or time and effort) to possess props of particular power. In other words, it’s not enough to give yourself an aspect saying you have a Sword of the Cross—you’ll also have to buy the sword as a facet of your supernatural abilities. Or to look at it a different way, the prop aspect is more about the relationship you have with the prop than it is about the prop itself and what it does.

To my mind the human with a frost sword just as an aspect wouldn't work. Harry's pentacle works because of what it means personally to him, it holds no power to drive off vampires that another pentacle wouldn't - in the same way that a christian priest could pick up any crucifix and drive away a black court vampire, it wouldn't have to be his own personal family heir loom crucifix.
It does give him other effects that are part and parcel of what it is, but they're not supernatural as such - for example it's silver, it's inherited, so it fulfils the Loup Garou catch, it's not a magical item because it does so. Harry uses it as a focus for his light spell, but doesn't have to. Again, it's not actually the item that's responsible for the light.

21
DFRPG / Re: Blood Magic - Repercussions?
« on: November 12, 2010, 10:15:39 AM »
1st Law is about killing. Hurting is in no way part of the Laws.

I didn't say it was, but I couldn't remember whether the line I'd read was in the section under the First Law where it talks about grey areas, or whether it was just in the powering a ritual using consequences section. I did point out that I couldn't remember which of the two it was in - it turns out that it's in the inflicting consequences to power a spell section. No, hurting someone to power a ritual isn't a first law violation. But it's the first step on a slippery slope towards that end if it's something that is repeated often.

From YS Page 269:

Quote
Of course, truly desperate or sociopathic wizards go beyond just self-sacrifice, harnessing the power that comes from the physical and emotional sacrifice of others. The torture or murder of another sentient being is perhaps one of the most heinous acts that a wizard can commit in the pursuit of magic, even (or especially) if the victim surrenders to it willingly.

And from a paragraph later:

Quote
This sacrifice essentially represents that the wizard is willing to go to greater extremes. He enters that territory where, in order to get what he wants, he’s willing to enter a conflict with someone, put his own emotions and health on the line, or complicate his life and the lives of others.

The section then goes on to discuss killing and the First Law - which is why my memory had linked it with the First Law section of the rule book.

22
DFRPG / Re: Invoking an Aspect as lightweight spellcasting
« on: November 12, 2010, 09:09:38 AM »
Let's all take a deep breath, and try hard not to flame each other. I assume you have positive intent, please respond with the same courtesy.

*sigh* The problem with forums like this is that the reader gets to assign tone to the post that simply isn't intended. I suggest you re-read my post and rather than envisioning someone yelling its contents at you like a drill instructor or a dalek, imagine someone amiably discussing your proposal over a drink. And do me the courtesy of not accusing me of flaming because you've misinterpreted the tone of my post.

The +2 pure mortal bonus is a game balance mechanic. It's useful because powers are much more powerful per point of refresh than stunts are. the +2 refresh helps balance that.

Yes, exactly, it's a balancing factor for someone with no supernatural abilities whatsoever.

The point of this post was trying to imagine something that doesn't have any powers at all, but still explores supernatural declarations. I understand your opinion that this is a concept that either:

a) shouldn't be explored at all

or

b) should lose the +2 refresh and might as well take powers.

Then you understand wrongly. To cover the points raised here (and again, imagine this as an amiable chat rather than an attack on you).... First up, you've just said that you want a character that has no supernatural ability, but can nevertheless make declarations that are supernatural in nature. There's a world of difference between what you're proposing as hedge magic, and making a normal declaration using a mundane skill. Using hedge magic you're creating something that doesn't already exist. Using a mundane skill means that you are taking advantage of something that already exists. Mundane declarations have to have logic behind them - you couldn't (as joe average) be stripped of all possessions and thrown naked into a cell, and then use a mundane resources declaration to say "I have a keychain flashlight on me!", certainly not without serious rationalisation as to why you'd still have it (and I'm thinking about the watch in Pulp Fiction as an example here). Using hedge magic you could make the declaration with no logical reason as to why you'd have a light source.

Point a: um, we are discussing it! I already said that I have no problems with the very minor spell casting effect using fate points rather than a purchased power but it would have to be carefully policed - full blown Wizards have to beat a difficulty of 3 to put an aspect on a scene magically, you want to be able to do that automatically without a test in the same way that a declaration works, but with the flexibility of spellcasting.

Point b: I don't quite see where you're coming from on this. The +2 bonus is exactly that, it's a bonus for playing a character with no supernatural abilities whatsoever. The moment you add an ability to use magic at any level (even if it is as minor as this) you remove the character from the category of pure mortal and no longer get the bonus. The way I see it when you're creating a character the +2 for being a pure mortal should be the last thing you deal with on your character. Think of it this way... in a 10 refresh game you create your character on the basis of 9 points worth of stunts. After you've finalised everything, if you've got no supernatural abilities you then get given 2 extra points of refresh to spend either on more stunts, or as fate points. You shouldn't be approaching character creation from the point of view of "Well, I'm a 12 Refresh character" from the start.

If you're able to cast minor effect spells by spending fate then you arguably have taken a power, you're just not spending points on it. You've still got (in a 10 refresh game) your full compliment of 9 available points to spend on stunts, and the ability to use minor magic. The only 'must' for this character is a High Concept that they can invoke for the effect.

23
DFRPG / Re: Invoking an Aspect as lightweight spellcasting
« on: November 11, 2010, 11:40:42 PM »
OK, I have no problem with the idea of very minor magical effects using a fate point rather than a roll and stress, but I do have a problem with the character also getting the +2 Refresh for being a 'pure mortal' on top of that. I'd also find the stunt idea unacceptable too. Because what you're basically doing is saying this character has a supernatural ability, but doesn't suffer the refresh downside to having that ability. Stunts are for things any mortal can accomplish, magic is explicitly a supernatural ability, and semantics aside about powers being supernatural stunts (they're really not the same thing) supernatural abilities of any type remove a character from being pure mortal.

And the argument that you're only going to be able to do things that you could do without magic doesn't wash either. You could say the same thing about many magical maneuvers - hell one basis of thaumaturgy difficulties is "If I could do this with a skill how difficult would it be?". Yes, you're basically making declarations using your hedge magic, but they're declarations that wouldn't be possible in the same way (or at all) without magic. There's a massive difference between having a keychain flashlight or a lighter, and having a flame dancing on the palm of your hand.

24
DFRPG / Re: Blood Magic - Repercussions?
« on: November 11, 2010, 07:15:33 PM »
I seem to remember a line in the section on the First Law (I may be wrong on the location of the line - it may be in the inflicting consequences to power a spell section), that seems to say that hurting a willing victim to power a ritual is as bad or worse than harming an unwilling person.

I'd agree with the general point of view that using someone with supernatural regeneration as a living battery for thaumaturgy is likely to change your personality for the worse over time. It's not as immediate as gaining Law Breaker, but it's certainly something I as a GM would be looking at if it was a regular occurance. And if it became too regular I'd probably insist that one of the character's minor milestones was spent re-wording an aspect to reflect the change to a slightly darker view. If the willing victim was the same one time and again I'd probably insist on a similar aspect change for the victim.

You'd arguably reach a stage where the wizard simply starts assuming it'll be OK to use the victim to power a spell, and the victim will reach a stage where they will quite happily bleed to death (or have their minds reduced to jelly) because "the wizard would never hurt me!"

25
DFRPG / Re: Why is the white court catch worth +0?
« on: November 11, 2010, 10:08:30 AM »
The boxed text under focussed practitioner defines those using ritual or channelling as using aspects of true magic. The sponsored magic is speculation based on that providing a thematicly focused version of ritual and channelling, and the fact that supernatural creatures can have thaumaturgy and evocation (or channelling and ritual). Just my take on it though. YMMV

26
DFRPG / Re: Why is the white court catch worth +0?
« on: November 11, 2010, 08:36:25 AM »
The rule book seems to view channelling and ritual as true magic. So anyone who has either one also counts. There's an argument that anyone with sponsored magic also counts too.

27
DFRPG / Re: Wheel of Time DFRPG conversion
« on: November 10, 2010, 08:35:14 PM »
Personally I'd do Wolf Brothers senses with Echoes of the Beast.

28
DFRPG / Re: Wheel of Time DFRPG conversion
« on: November 10, 2010, 05:18:08 PM »
Is Mat's Luck just an aspect of a ton of Fate points and some mortal stunts or is it an ability that chewed up Refresh?

I'd say it could easily be handled with the Aspect of "Dark One's Own Luck". Part of me wants to say that ta'veren ought to be a power - it certainly can have huge effects on the character and those around them, but since people aren't usually permanent Ta'veren (with noteable exceptions) I'd be more inclined to model it as a temporary sticky aspect. Invoking that for effect along with "The Dark One's Own Luck" strikes me as a great way to model Mat's inability to lose during his night preparing to leave Tar Valon. The book after-all doesn't dwell on each game, just gives a sense of the mounting winnings as he feverishly makes his way around the city. I can see a couple of compels in there as well forcing him to keep on playing even though he's getting seriously freaked out.

29
DFRPG / Re: Why is the white court catch worth +0?
« on: November 10, 2010, 01:10:01 PM »
As for anecdotal evidence of love not being common, I had still never claimed true love was common.  My own assessment is that True Love is literally one in a million.  But even that is a "Rare" class of people, which is worth +1 (according to the Catch pricing guidelines as written).  Nobody has even attempted to argue that the number of people truely in love on this planet is 2.  And that's what would be necessary to qualify it as +0.  Heck, nobody has even claimed True Love is possessed by fewer than 50 people on Earth.

Actually I have no problem whatsoever believing that there are far less people in the world who have true love than who have access to true magic. There's quite a large number of people comparitively that can use True Magic - which is what classes as a "Rare" group.

30
DFRPG / Re: Wheel of Time DFRPG conversion
« on: November 08, 2010, 04:44:43 PM »
I thought males were just as capable of linking as females are, but you can't create a circle greater than thirteen people without members of both sexes. I could be wrong though it's been years since I've read the series.

I can understand why you've mis-remembered. Males are unable to link. It takes a female channeller to initiate a link. Up to 13 women can link at any one time without a male channeller present. If the number in the link rises above 13 it requires a male channeller to take control. Generally male channellers are individually stronger than female channellers. Females generally have more affinity for air and water, males for earth and fire, both sexes have similar affinity for spirit.

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