The maximum isn't really set, but you can rule common sense on it. It is pretty doubtful a plain jane ward attached to a middling threshold beats 10-15 in total complexity.
As to how many tags, you get as many that are justifiable thematically. For the friendly wizard, maybe 10 shifts. For the paranoid Warden or power-mad sorcerer, you can expect the ward to be... Stronger.
I am thinking about putting a limit on the number of Declarations one can make when casting a ritual, but at the same time, it doesn’t feel good to do that. One the other hand, I would very much like the players to use Fate Points or Consequences when casting rituals, but when they have “free” Declarations, I can’t see any player ever using Fate Points or Consequences (given the Wizard have enough time to cast the ritual in question).
As I interpret the rules in regards to Wards and complexity, a PC could without too much effort (from a rules perspective) create a Ward with a complexity of 50 (or more!), given that he gets enough time. There are no limits in terms of the number of Declarations a Wizard can make (as long as he can explain them from a narrative perspective), so making 25 Declarations (to get 50 shifts!) should be OK (as long as his GM is agreeing to it). It would also be perfectly safe to cast the ritual once the Wizard gets a Discipline of 5+ (as at this level, he can feed 1 Shift of power to the ritual per exchange, without risk failing the spell).First, the Declarations take time and get harder the less inventive they are. By the time you get to your third "I buy some more magic herbs", you are rolling against Fantastic (+6) difficulty. Second, trying to channel 50 shifts of power would encourage me to do stuff like restrict the Discipline roll by Endurance or compel appropriate Aspects to raise the difficulty of the control roll. All it takes is one hiccup when you are fooling with that much power to transform yourself and your sanctum into a smoking crater.
Temporary Aspect: High On Stimulants
Temporary Aspect: Eight Empty 2-Liter Bottles Of Mountain Dew
Temporary Aspect: It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed...
There, solved your problem for staying up... (knows and knows of waaay too many computer geeks...)
Just remember, the more shifts you have to control, the more dangerous it gets. one failed control check can kill you. Easily. Picture this: you got a 50 shift spell, you've got 4 shifts left, and roll so poorly that you fail the control check. Either way, your taking 46 shifts of damage, from fallout or backlash. Say bye bye to your wizard. That's the danger of bigger spells. So the pratical limit is the number of shifts of damage you can take. Stress track + 20 (2 mild, 4 moderate, 6 serious, 8 extreme).
Temporary Aspect: High On StimulantsThat's fine and dandy until one of the latter two is compelled so you have to pee. :)
Temporary Aspect: Eight Empty 2-Liter Bottles Of Mountain Dew
Temporary Aspect: It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed...
There, solved your problem for staying up... (knows and knows of waaay too many computer geeks...)
What bothers me is that, if the Wizard have enough time (and Discipline 5+), the player could simply say "I create a complexity 20 [or 30, or 40 or whatever] containment circle for my summoning, and as I can't fail the roll, so I suppose it is successful, right?". Given enough time and creativity, the player should be able to come up with enough Declarations to make it work.Remember that thaumaturgical rituals are stories. Something that shifts 40 power isn't served by 20 Resources rolls to gather occult knick-knacks. To do that sort of big juju, you need big ley lines, the stars in the right formation, exactly the right consecrated dagger, a virgin born on the correct day of the correct year, etc. Multiple Declarations raise the bar. By the time you are past the first half dozen, they should be getting into the +6 difficulty range and just gathering what you need should be a task in itself, a sub-plot that can see complications. If you treat rituals (particularly the big ones) as just an exercise in math and game mechanics, it is rife for abuse and really loses something in terms of magic being interesting.
That's fine and dandy until one of the latter two is compelled so you have to pee. :)That's why you make a simple Declaration: Cather & Bag
You aren't going to be doing big rituals that often. So the following is usually acheivable by a wizard;
5 shifts via base Lore
usually 1 shift for specialization
Up to 5 shifts via focus, if focused in that type of rituals
4 shifts from 2 mild consequences
4 shifts from 1 moderate consequence
4 shifts from knowing the right incantation and using appropriate mystical symbolism (Lore declarations)
4 shifts from clearing your mind of distractions and making the appropriate visualizations (Discipline declarations)
4 shifts from evoking a strong magic circle and believing in what you are doing (Conviction declarations)
2 shifts from buying thematically appropriate materials (i.e. iron filings vs fey or holy water and sea salt vs demons - Resources declaration)
We are already at 33 shifts with only fairly basic declarations for the important skills that most wizards with a +4 or +5 to those skills should be able to do easily. It takes 7 exchanges for making said declarations and, for controlling with maximum safety, another 33 exchanges to cast the ritual. So, say 40 minutes for the whole thing if every exchange is a minute.
That's why you make a simple Declaration: Cather & BagDude. You /don't/ want the GM compelling /that/ aspect.
That's why you make a simple Declaration: Cather & Bag
The usual wizard has Lore 5, Conviction 5, and a +5 focus for Thaumaturgy complexity?Even an untrained, beginning wizard can have 2 skills at +5. What are they going to be? As for the focus, all wizards get 4 focus slots for free by the base template. So any ritualist that specializes will already have a +4 focus for that.
Declarations don't necessarily take an exchange, particularly not when dealing with Thaumaturgical preparation. Buying supplies doesn't take seconds. Lore declarations such as you refer to represent research (what you know off hand is accounted for in your Lore rating contribution). Similarly, the Discipline declarations should represent meditation and ritual that takes time to do.Most declarations do not take time at all. A resource declaration not that you go buy a ritual component but that you have bought such a component already in the past when making your wizard's lab for example. Harry Dresden doesn't go bying stuff every single time he makes a ritual - he has stocked some supplies already. As for how much time it takes to meditate, it depends on your ability; an early Harry Dresden took two hours to fully prepare for a ritual. A more mature Harry Dresden could make a circle in his mind while sitting on a couch.
Also, note that you are performing this ritual with three Consequences, any or all of which the GM can tag to make your Control rolls harder.Nope. You sacrifice the consequences before you make most other time-consuming preparations and by the time several scenes of preparation are finished, the milds would have already recovered. Wizard's constitution is an amazing thing.
Even an untrained, beginning wizard can have 2 skills at +5. What are they going to be? As for the focus, all wizards get 4 focus slots for free by the base template. So any ritualist that specializes will already have a +4 focus for that.You presented this as an average wizard. It is not. It is a highly specialized wizard. And not all wizards put their magical skills at the top of their pyramid. Of the four wizards in my game, the apex skills are: Empathy, Resources, Conviction, and Lore.
Most declarations do not take time at all. A resource declaration not that you go buy a ritual component but that you have bought such a component already in the past when making your wizard's lab for example. Harry Dresden doesn't go buying stuff every single time he makes a ritual - he has stocked some supplies already. As for how much time it takes to meditate, it depends on your ability; an early Harry Dresden took two hours to fully prepare for a ritual.You are incorrect. The stuff lying around is /specifically/ what your Arcane Sanctum represents. Anything else is things you acquire in preparation that takes time as you acquire further components and do further research. Re-read page 266-268. It is very clear on this. It is similar to the example of using a Declaration to case a building with Burglary. It isn't instantaneous or represent knowledge you had before, it represents what you discover after taking the time to, you know, case the building. To quote page 268 under Adjudicating Preparation:
A more mature Harry Dresden could make a circle in his mind while sitting on a couch.Because he has a higher Lore, which means he can do it really well off-the-cuff.
Nope. You sacrifice the consequences before you make most other time-consuming preparations and by the time several scenes of preparation are finished, the milds would have already recovered. Wizard's constitution is an amazing thing.I wouldn't allow that. The point of Consequences is that they have, you know, CONSEQUENCES. If they go away before they are relevant, you are going against the system. The set durations are guidelines which they explicitly tell you to adjust so that the consequence is felt. Besides, thematically the caster of a spell doesn't cut their palm and drip blood on the circle and then go do something else for four hours before casting the spell. The sacrifices that consequences represent are the last thing you do, as the casting of the spell starts.
Thaumaturgy is as written very easy. I may have gone too far in making it otherwise, I guess.
I'm not as concerned with declarations as I am with consequences.
That sounds like a real jerk move to me. I certainly wouldn't want to get compelled like that when I'd spent twenty minutes real time (and all my fate points) on a ritual..
@zenten: That sounds like a real jerk move to me. I certainly wouldn't want to get compelled like that when I'd spent twenty minutes real time (and all my fate points) on a ritual.
I feel that folks may be inadvertently forgetting that the GM is generally setting the DCs for the Lore Declarations. The rules mention (at least for Divination effects like Harry's tracking spell) to just let certain low-power Thaumaturgy rituals work, without requiring the "minigame" that is the spell construct and empowering phase.