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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Direwolf513 on July 17, 2020, 04:59:48 PM

Title: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Direwolf513 on July 17, 2020, 04:59:48 PM
I suspect I’ll be in the minority on this but wanted to get my thoughts down on the latest book in the Dresden Files, Peace Talks.

To put a point on it, I’m very disappointed. While I’m certain that I’d overhyped the book quite a bit in my mind because of the wait, to have a very short book loaded with unnecessary fluff and rehashing of the same interactions we’ve had repeatedly was an unpleasant surprise. (I would add that charging $15 for a soft copy of such an abbreviated work is uncool by the publisher).

So much of the book, with its already very short runtime, was devoted to concepts we’ve already experienced over and over. Examples include:

1)   The effects of the Winter Mantle – right, we get it, it makes Harry want to screw and fight. He’s been dealing with that (and monologuing about it) for the last three books now. Devoting so much time to him essentially complaining about it adds nothing to the story and diminishes the character. It would have done better service to the character to have him say something along the lines of “the Winter Mantle continued to drive me towards the darker side of human emotion, something I’d been able to mitigate to an extent through an enforced regimen of heavy exercise” early in the book – that would have acknowledged it was still there and something he had to keep in mind while moving the character forward a bit AND giving a nod towards Harry’s increased physical strength.

Side note – there is so much talk of the violence and cruelty of winter. What about stillness? Anyone who’s been outside on a snowy night in a rural area knows how still and quiet winter can be. It would be nice for some of that to come into the equation. The series deals with balance a good bit and the idea of stillness would be a nice balance to the violence, particularly if done as kind of a “calm before the storm” kind of thing. Something like, “the stillness of a snowy winter’s night settled over me as I prepared my strike” would be nice.

2)   Michael – hey, look, Harry has a moment of personal turmoil, goes to Michael, gets advice, and sallies forth… just like he did in Skin Game, and similar to interactions with Michael in Proven Guilty and Small Favor. Michael’s a great guy and a solid character, but can we maybe get some growth from Harry to indicate that the conversations he’s had with Michael in the past weren’t just wasted breath and he’s actually internalized some of these things?

3)   Murphy – yet another case of Harry wanting to protect Murphy, her telling him she makes her own decisions, and him coming to the realization that he can’t run her life for her – the same realization he’s had over and over for years. If I had a nickel. It would be nice to see her character grow a little bit and realize that she DOES have limits and that going to battle in her very limited (or not? More below) condition puts handcuffs on Harry. She knows he’s irrational about protecting the people he loves and so would be keeping one eye on the fight and one on her (which could get them both killed) yet wants to go be a distraction because “it’s my life!”

4)   Lara – Yep, super(naturally) sexy. Check. At what point does Harry put mental defenses into place, the way he’s done in the past against pain (see Small Favor) to mitigate her influence? A wizard should be able to do that, I would think. Instead, he’s still drooling all over himself with the extra added bonus of yet ANOTHER opportunity to talk about the Winter Mantle and its nasty attitude! Hooray!

Then we get into some new stuff that didn’t track:

1)   Butters – The threesome scene was totally unnecessary and felt very forced (and like a little wish fulfillment on the part of the author, honestly). I assume that Butcher is trying to show the change in Butters over time, but he’s not acting like a Knight of the Cross – he’s acting like a Knight of the Sidhe. If he’d replaced Fix, that would be one thing, but he didn’t. Having him casually threaten Harry (the whole “tell anyone and I’ll knock your teeth out”) felt very off when held up against what we’ve seen from the other Knights – but would have been perfectly in keeping with the attitudes of the Sidhe.

2)   McCoy – Well, that escalated quickly. Right from the jump, McCoy was a different character than the one we’ve known since Summer Knight. I get it, under stress, etc., but he’s been under tremendous stress before and not been so completely irrational. Then, after the underwhelming fight between them where Harry spends as much time fanboying as fighting (“Hell’s bells, was he better than me!”), we get the old “tough to learn that your parents aren’t perfect” thing – except we’d already gotten that in Blood Rites when Harry learned about the Blackstaff. It took him two years to get over that one – let’s do it again! Also, to have the setup of the White Court doing something horrible to him BEYOND Lord Raith killing his daughter and NOT say what it was seemed weak. I’d expect that we’ll get the story in the next book when Harry and Ebenezar make up and talk through things (very possibly as Ebenezer is lying in a pool of his own blood counting his last breaths), but it felt contrived that Harry, a private investigator, wouldn’t INVESTIGATE that a little more since it’s a massive clue as to why Ebenezer is acting so irrationally.

3)   Murphy (part two) - She does the staggeringly stupid thing of cutting off her own casts to go put herself in harm’s way - but not as much as should have been the case. We get the bit in the beginning about how she “doesn’t get to be [her]” anymore and yet she has no trouble putting a sneak attack on a freaking Valkyrie who is already on her guard. Didn’t really seem too burdened by what should have been crippling injuries, huh?

4)   Thomas – no time was spent trying to figure out why Thomas did what he did (or even proving conclusively that he DID do it). Based on how the Sidhe operate, if Thomas was used by someone else, he was just the tool (much like the Little Folks killing Aurora at Harry’s direction). As the situation is being adjudicated under the Accords (a Sidhe convention), wouldn’t it have made sense to figure out what the hell happened? It’s not like Harry’s not used to working under absurd time constraints.

5)   Continuity – the book mentions the Tunguska event being the fallout of the last Dragon (capital D) being killed – but didn’t Michael kill Siriothrax after that? And didn’t Ebenezer claim credit for Tunguska when talking about his dirty work as the Blackstaff? I suppose he could have been killing a Dragon, but it doesn’t really pass the smell test. And then there’s Harry talking about the last time he was in the BFS castle was when he was a ghost – except that he was there at the end of Skin Game. I get that there’s a ton of lore to keep up with, so maybe the beta readers/editor should have caught that kind of thing, but it takes me out of the story when I see something that doesn’t match up with what’s gone before.

And then just some personal quibbles:

1)   Starborn every 666 years, huh? Good thing no one’s ever used 666 as a mystical number before. Eye roll. Let’s get some “seventh son of a seventh son” action going, too, to keep the cliché train rolling.

2)   The lack of information flying around was annoying. We’ve got McCoy pulling the “I’ve said too much already” crap, for crying out loud. There are literally packs of Outsiders materializing on the streets of Chicago – maybe this IS the right time to talk about Outsider-related stuff?!? Hey, Ebenezer – what if another pack shows up when you’re not around and Harry’s by himself? Wouldn’t it kinda make sense for him to know what’s going on simply to be able to protect himself??? Clear that Butcher is wanting to drag the audience along and is doing so by dragging Harry along with dialogue that doesn’t really make sense in the context of the moment.

3)   Tying in with lack of information is Harry not telling Ebenezer up front about who Thomas is. I’m sure Ebenezer would have stormed off in a huff, but he would then have had TIME to think on it.

Side note – I know that Butcher lies in the WoJs, but in one he said that Ebenezer already knew about Thomas and didn’t really want to deal with it. Frankly, that’s a much more compelling and human approach than that a member of the Senior Council of the White Council of Wizards doesn’t even know about his own daughter’s children.

4)   Lara attacking Harry on the island even though she saw how he operated there in Turn Coat felt off. I get she’s upset about her brother, but not even ASKING what happened before attacking was a bit squirrely.

5)   Marcone, the most prepared, buttoned-up guy in the entire series, has exactly one guard on an extremely high-priority prisoner when he’s serving as a neutral location for a formal Accords matter? Really? And he’s being held in a freaking basement? Really really? No – Marcone’s better than that. But, hey, we needed a chance to show Lara’s sexiness and I guess an orgy of her seducing four or five guys at once would have been in poor taste (allusions to threesomes are, I guess, the limit).

6)   Conjuritis… Good grief… he’s gonna sneeze stuff out of the air… And everyone knows what it is but him? Given what’s going on in the book, does stupid slapstick really fit? What purpose did that serve other than goofy sight gags?

7)   Murphy (part three) – having her in the role she played relegated Goodman Grey, one of the most dangerous and capable people Harry knows who would, as a shapeshifter, REALLY have come in handy for the rescue/heist, to a bit part role. That’s a VERY interesting character – give him more airtime, please!

Now, I’m going to get the next book because I love the series and want to see how it comes out. But man, this book was a miss. Too short, rushed, and full of either unnecessary filler, stuff that ran counter to previous books, or just oddities (like Conjuritis). I’m really hoping that this book isn’t indicative of how the rest will be written because it’s nowhere near the standard Jim Butcher has set to date.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: BrainFireBob on July 17, 2020, 05:12:06 PM
Point 6. The frying pan. Harry didn't sneeze the frying pan into existence. Someone else, with the mortal gift of magic, that was thinking of pancakes. Someone who makes sense to have a "child's" wizard disease who could pass it to maybe a family member who'd never had it.

The two combine to point to Maggie having what Eb already listed as a criteria- proof that she'll have mystical power.

But unusually clumsily done by Butcher, agreed.

Heck, maybe Eb's got cancer.

As I recall, what Butcher said was that he knew everything he'd need to know to figure it out, but was really hostile to the idea and so hadn't. Not quite a lie if I recall correctly.

Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Mira on July 17, 2020, 05:50:20 PM
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To put a point on it, I’m very disappointed. While I’m certain that I’d overhyped the book quite a bit in my mind because of the wait, to have a very short book loaded with unnecessary fluff and rehashing of the same interactions we’ve had repeatedly was an unpleasant surprise. (I would add that charging $15 for a soft copy of such an abbreviated work is uncool by the publisher).

Totally agree, I feel like someone wanted to make more money so they split one book into two.  There really was no reason to make two books out of this, unless in Battle Field it gets into the weeds a bit more about what behind all of this.
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3)   Murphy – yet another case of Harry wanting to protect Murphy, her telling him she makes her own decisions, and him coming to the realization that he can’t run her life for her – the same realization he’s had over and over for years. If I had a nickel. It would be nice to see her character grow a little bit and realize that she DOES have limits and that going to battle in her very limited (or not? More below) condition puts handcuffs on Harry. She knows he’s irrational about protecting the people he loves and so would be keeping one eye on the fight and one on her (which could get them both killed) yet wants to go be a distraction because “it’s my life!”

I think it was thrown in there to please her fans who've wanted the relationship consummated for years.  To me there is all kinds of foreshadowing that she isn't going to survive the next book. 
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1)   Butters – The threesome scene was totally unnecessary and felt very forced (and like a little wish fulfillment on the part of the author, honestly). I assume that Butcher is trying to show the change in Butters over time, but he’s not acting like a Knight of the Cross – he’s acting like a Knight of the Sidhe. If he’d replaced Fix, that would be one thing, but he didn’t. Having him casually threaten Harry (the whole “tell anyone and I’ll knock your teeth out”) felt very off when held up against what we’ve seen from the other Knights – but would have been perfectly in keeping with the attitudes of the Sidhe.

Yup, that isn't just a light saber he keeps in his pocket.. I agree, Butters acting the tough guy just seems weird.
Quote
2)   McCoy – Well, that escalated quickly. Right from the jump, McCoy was a different character than the one we’ve known since Summer Knight. I get it, under stress, etc., but he’s been under tremendous stress before and not been so completely irrational. Then, after the underwhelming fight between them where Harry spends as much time fanboying as fighting (“Hell’s bells, was he better than me!”), we get the old “tough to learn that your parents aren’t perfect” thing – except we’d already gotten that in Blood Rites when Harry learned about the Blackstaff. It took him two years to get over that one – let’s do it again! Also, to have the setup of the White Court doing something horrible to him BEYOND Lord Raith killing his daughter and NOT say what it was seemed weak. I’d expect that we’ll get the story in the next book when Harry and Ebenezar make up and talk through things (very possibly as Ebenezer is lying in a pool of his own blood counting his last breaths), but it felt contrived that Harry, a private investigator, wouldn’t INVESTIGATE that a little more since it’s a massive clue as to why Ebenezer is acting so irrationally.

Out of the blue, Eb is just a pissed off old man warning Harry that they are out to get him, but no explanation as to who or why, save it sounded like a rehash of Summer Knight.. Take away his wizard status?  Based on what?
Quote

3)   Murphy (part two) - She does the staggeringly stupid thing of cutting off her own casts to go put herself in harm’s way - but not as much as should have been the case. We get the bit in the beginning about how she “doesn’t get to be [her]” anymore and yet she has no trouble putting a sneak attack on a freaking Valkyrie who is already on her guard. Didn’t really seem too burdened by what should have been crippling injuries, huh?

Except the Valkyrie did get the drop on her, and if the boat hadn't been docked at Demonreach that could have been the end right there... So she had a couple of grenades, that would have just blown her up,  Valkyries are immortal.. She got saved because Harry as Warden of the island had the upper hand.  The impression I got was Murphy did move very slow, and she didn't leave the boat did she? 
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4)   Thomas – no time was spent trying to figure out why Thomas did what he did (or even proving conclusively that he DID do it). Based on how the Sidhe operate, if Thomas was used by someone else, he was just the tool (much like the Little Folks killing Aurora at Harry’s direction). As the situation is being adjudicated under the Accords (a Sidhe convention), wouldn’t it have made sense to figure out what the hell happened? It’s not like Harry’s not used to working under absurd time constraints.

That is my biggest complaint about the book, that and what in the hell was the summit meeting all about anyway?  And if it was that important why wasn't the Merlin there?   
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1)   Starborn every 666 years, huh? Good thing no one’s ever used 666 as a mystical number before. Eye roll. Let’s get some “seventh son of a seventh son” action going, too, to keep the cliché train rolling

Yeah, it is very weird because it is also considered the sign of the Beast.. 
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2)   The lack of information flying around was annoying. We’ve got McCoy pulling the “I’ve said too much already” crap, for crying out loud. There are literally packs of Outsiders materializing on the streets of Chicago – maybe this IS the right time to talk about Outsider-related stuff?!? Hey, Ebenezer – what if another pack shows up when you’re not around and Harry’s by himself? Wouldn’t it kinda make sense for him to know what’s going on simply to be able to protect himself??? Clear that Butcher is wanting to drag the audience along and is doing so by dragging Harry along with dialogue that doesn’t really make sense in the context of the moment.

Which goes back to your original point, why was this need to make two books?  This book was way short on information, or even build up to the big moment when the Titian appeared..
[quote

6)   Conjuritis… Good grief… he’s gonna sneeze stuff out of the air… And everyone knows what it is but him? Given what’s going on in the book, does stupid slapstick really fit? What purpose did that serve other than goofy sight gags?quote]

What exactly was the point of that?  Unless in the next book he disables the Titian by sneezing on it, thus being able to transport it off to Alfred and the Island.

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Now, I’m going to get the next book because I love the series and want to see how it comes out. But man, this book was a miss. Too short, rushed, and full of either unnecessary filler, stuff that ran counter to previous books, or just oddities (like Conjuritis). I’m really hoping that this book isn’t indicative of how the rest will be written because it’s nowhere near the standard Jim Butcher has set to date.

Agreed on all those points.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
Is this the grievance thread?  If so, I'll share my critical notes.


Okay, now things I'm grateful for.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Direwolf513 on July 17, 2020, 06:16:23 PM
Except the Valkyrie did get the drop on her, and if the boat hadn't been docked at Demonreach that could have been the end right there... So she had a couple of grenades, that would have just blown her up,  Valkyries are immortal.. She got saved because Harry as Warden of the island had the upper hand.  The impression I got was Murphy did move very slow, and she didn't leave the boat did she? 

I was referencing the scene at the Raith Estate where Murphy uses an elbow bump and puts the pistol up under Freydia's chin to convince her that Murphy could carry her weight. As bad as her injuries were, engaging in activity like that should have been agonizing, particularly as she was wincing in pain from beginning to fool around with Harry.

Getting taken by Freydia on the boat makes perfect sense given the speed and strength advantages the Valkyrie has along with who knows how many years of fighting experience. Murphy just planned ahead and, even though she'd have died, she'd have prevented Gard from aiding her employer, which would count as a loss for her and so not an acceptable outcome.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 07:43:33 PM
At least we didn't get a long detailed description of Mac's place or how his old shield bracelet was soooooo much better.

@Grifter: Maggie isn't in the new school yet. There was a line about starting at a new school.

Wasn't the island previously 30 minutes from the harbor?

Marcone probably has enough legitimate interests to be super wealthy.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 07:53:25 PM
At least we didn't get a long detailed description of Mac's place or how his old shield bracelet was soooooo much better.

@Grifter: Maggie isn't in the new school yet. There was a line about starting at a new school.

Wasn't the island previously 30 minutes from the harbor?

Marcone probably has enough legitimate interests to be super wealthy.
It was always about an hour. 

I was really hoping he would have worked on a Way connecting to Whatsup Dock that he could take from Chicago.  We know there's some survivable path because Rashid went that way in Turn Coat.  He's got his mother's stone, which should help with Wayfinding, since it was said to track changes in the Ways. 
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 08:01:16 PM
His mom could track changes. The ruby is just her journal. I don't think it also comes with her natural abilities to chart ways.

The ruby has been vastly underutilized.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
His mom could track changes. The ruby is just her journal. I don't think it also comes with her natural abilities to chart ways.

The ruby has been vastly underutilized.
What Lea says is...
"It is the sum of her knowledge of the Ways. Every path, every shortcut, every connection. She developed enough skill at searching them out that she was eventually able to predict them. Ways may change from decade to decade, but your mother knew where they were and where they would be. Very few of mine own kind can say as much. That knowledge is the burden I hold in my hand, child."

I think the ruby contains even the knowledge to track the changes, as that was part of her knowledge of the Ways, and the ruby is the sum of that knowledge.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Hopefully we'll get to see. The ruby feels like Little Chicago. They're introduced as this awesome, earth shatteringly powerful thing. Then they just kind of go away. Kind of like the Winter Knight's mantel.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Direwolf513 on July 17, 2020, 08:30:06 PM
His mom could track changes. The ruby is just her journal. I don't think it also comes with her natural abilities to chart ways.

The ruby has been vastly underutilized.

Man, I'd completely forgotten about the ruby. Underutilized, indeed.

You know, it would be good if he actually DID get kicked out of the White Council for a while and made them all look stupid by bouncing around the Ways for a while staying ahead of them while saving the world that they're not smart enough to save. Then he can be invited back and give 'em all the finger. hehe
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Mira on July 17, 2020, 08:38:15 PM
I was referencing the scene at the Raith Estate where Murphy uses an elbow bump and puts the pistol up under Freydia's chin to convince her that Murphy could carry her weight. As bad as her injuries were, engaging in activity like that should have been agonizing, particularly as she was wincing in pain from beginning to fool around with Harry.

Getting taken by Freydia on the boat makes perfect sense given the speed and strength advantages the Valkyrie has along with who knows how many years of fighting experience. Murphy just planned ahead and, even though she'd have died, she'd have prevented Gard from aiding her employer, which would count as a loss for her and so not an acceptable outcome.

  Got ya, just read that part, missed on the first skim through..  Not only very painful, but if her limbs had been in a cast all those weeks, muscles do not respond all that great, it takes a few days, been there done that. 

No, the Murphy of old wouldn't have been taken on the boat like that, she would have been looking for it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Arjan on July 17, 2020, 08:54:05 PM
Man, I'd completely forgotten about the ruby. Underutilized, indeed.

You know, it would be good if he actually DID get kicked out of the White Council for a while and made them all look stupid by bouncing around the Ways for a while staying ahead of them while saving the world that they're not smart enough to save. Then he can be invited back and give 'em all the finger. hehe
He does not have it anymore. Dying can be inconvenient in that way.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
He does not have it anymore. Dying can be inconvenient in that way.
The ruby? He still had it in Cold Days.
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It was a simple silver pentacle, a battered five-pointed star bound within a circle, on a simple silver chain. The pentacle’s center was filled with a small red stone, cut to size. I’d once fastened the gem into place with hot glue. Apparently Mab had sent it to a genuine jeweler to attach it with something more solid. I touched the stone gingerly, and could instantly sense the energy within it, the psychic journal of my late mother’s travels.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Arjan on July 17, 2020, 10:14:53 PM
The ruby? He still had it in Cold Days.
I missed that one. I only knew he never really used it after Changes
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 10:27:22 PM
I missed that one. I only knew he never really used it after Changes
It's a shame, really.  He spent over a year on the island with no resources other than the stuff brought to him, and he couldn't test with the ruby because he was afraid of what was on the other side. I mean sure, he couldn't go anywhere because of the "parasite" situation, but still. In over a year he didn't toy with seeing what was on the other side of the Dock?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Arjan on July 17, 2020, 10:37:50 PM
It's a shame, really.  He spent over a year on the island with no resources other than the stuff brought to him, and he couldn't test with the ruby because he was afraid of what was on the other side. I mean sure, he couldn't go anywhere because of the "parasite" situation, but still. In over a year he didn't toy with seeing what was on the other side of the Dock?
A certain reluctance to experiment withe the ways on the island is understandable. I do not expect those to connect to the nicer places in the nevernever.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Paviel on July 17, 2020, 11:24:54 PM
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I assume that Butcher is trying to show the change in Butters over time, but he’s not acting like a Knight of the Cross – he’s acting like a Knight of the Sidhe.

Consensual non-monogamy seems perfectly in line with a Knight of the Cross to me.

The Knights of the Cross work for God, and God is love.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 11:47:44 PM
A certain reluctance to experiment withe the ways on the island is understandable. I do not expect those to connect to the nicer places in the nevernever.
On the island, sure.  But we saw Rashid arrive on the Dock that Harry and Thomas built. That probably wouldn't be an ideal point, but it should be serviceable.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Mira on July 18, 2020, 12:01:10 AM
On the island, sure.  But we saw Rashid arrive on the Dock that Harry and Thomas built. That probably wouldn't be an ideal point, but it should be serviceable.

  I seem to remember it being mentioned that the Ways that led to the island were very nasty and dangerous.  Apparently only Rashid and later Peabody cared to use them, the rest of the Senior Council arrived by boat in Turn Coat.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Grifter on July 18, 2020, 12:13:24 AM
  I seem to remember it being mentioned that the Ways that led to the island were very nasty and dangerous.  Apparently only Rashid and later Peabody cared to use them, the rest of the Senior Council arrived by boat in Turn Coat.
They did. But again, the dock is different. It was made from wood brought to the island, and made by brothers in an effort to make their continued interactions possible.  And per Rashid, he didn't come out on the island because he can't set foot on the island, because of the grudge.  So there's a Way there that might not be as bad.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Mira on July 18, 2020, 05:28:55 AM
They did. But again, the dock is different. It was made from wood brought to the island, and made by brothers in an effort to make their continued interactions possible.  And per Rashid, he didn't come out on the island because he can't set foot on the island, because of the grudge.  So there's a Way there that might not be as bad.

If there is, Rashid would know of it... However let's not forget that Rashid is a real bad ass, so he most likely could handle anything on his travels.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: legendarycreamer on July 18, 2020, 04:55:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that as Jim was writing the book it might have got away from him in length and he felt that he couldn't shorten it in a way he would be satisfied with, so he decided to write 2 books. The problem is that when he split it he might have rushed it which is why it felt underwhelming. I dunno I may be wrong though but it's my initial thoughts.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Direwolf513 on July 18, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
Consensual non-monogamy seems perfectly in line with a Knight of the Cross to me.

The Knights of the Cross work for God, and God is love.

Agape love is a bit different from carnal love. Also, while it’s not against any rules, so far as we know, it was jarring for him to be acting that way when the series has established the Sidhe Knights as being more interested in the carnal.

Just an opinion. Regardless of whether it works, it was unnecessary and added nothing meaningful to the story. Rather, it was just empty fluff in a book already loaded with it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: Mira on July 18, 2020, 06:13:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that as Jim was writing the book it might have got away from him in length and he felt that he couldn't shorten it in a way he would be satisfied with, so he decided to write 2 books. The problem is that when he split it he might have rushed it which is why it felt underwhelming. I dunno I may be wrong though but it's my initial thoughts.

It did feel rushed, frankly like most of the Dresden related short stories we've gotten to appease us
the last few years.  One wonders if he has spread himself too thin, writing two new series that might peek his interest more. He is bored with the series, but has committed himself for a half dozen or more books.  Takes us, his fans for granted so feels he can be a little more slip shod. Or is he trying to stretch out the series over his twenty or so books plus the BAT when maybe fewer books a little more carefully written would serve better? 
Title: Re: Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Post by: knightedbishop on July 18, 2020, 07:22:22 PM
Things I enjoyed:
* The scene at Michael's house when they test the lightsaber of Faith and conclude there are angels bound to the nails, just the opposite of the Fallen in the coins. This was a nice reveal. It is well set up, to make sense (I immediately thought of Uriel saying he is only allowed to respond in a mirror of the original offense). Now as I re-read the series I will look at the Swords differently and wonder what the angels bound to them are thinking.

* Harry summoning Molly. Their conversations were great. Veered from metaphysical (the Lady's mantle and how it meshes with Molly being human) to the power dynamic between them (negotiating a favor), to Harry pushing Molly to talk to her family. As a gay man who was terrified to come out to his parents, even though I knew they would love me, I understood Molly's fear.

* Mab getting sucker punched. You can be a big shot and still be caught off guard. I would argue the political effect of creating doubt about Mab's power was far more devastating than the physical act. Ethniu is going to pay for that in spades later. Based on the Christmas Ever story Mab is still around and Ethniu is not. Mab will enjoy seeing Ethniu get screwed, and at the hand of her knight.

* Seeing the Accord signatories come together under Marcone's leadership to defend Chicago. In the end, the fate of the mortal world rests with mortal choices. Marcone's choices to remind his guests of their obligations made a difference. I could otherwise imagine the group fracturing. While brief, hearing Ferro and Vadderung say that in short order they could lock Chicago down between the two of them is a tangible way to show how powerful they are. 

* Binding Thomas. It was unique way to use Demonreach. I thought it was well-written and added richness to the island. I am wondering though how in the heck six thousand uber baddies got brought to the island to be imprisoned. I can't imagine them docile and chained up, riding a barge to the island.

I didn't enjoy:
* A lot of what others have said. It was short for a novel. It's unfortunately that the story was broken into two parts. It leaves Peace Talks with a lot of set up and no where to go...except wait.

* The bickering between Ebenezer and Harry. A little was fine. Eb turning into a raving mad man everytime they talked got old and seems out of character for someone as intelligent as Eb. Though maybe family is just his blind spot.

* Conjuritis. I don't know what the point was.

* The lack of actual peace talks.

* Murphy cutting off her casts and then voila, being able to catch a Valkyrie off guard with no problem at Chateau Raith. This is beyond credulity. Murphy herself says at the start that the doctors hope to get her back to a portion of normal functioning, not to athletic function. And she's walking and throwing down after weeks in casts? Either this is poorly written or there is something going on behind the scenes. Maybe a Faustian bargain was already made and she doesn't remember (intentionally). Maybe someone powerful hitchhiked into her body and is fueling her without her awareness.

And a theory or two:
* Now we know Starborn happens every 666 years. Anyone done any astronomy deep dives yet to see if there is a comet or some constellation that comes up that often? So who is hanging on, waiting? Rashid is the immediate first choice, given how old he is. Maybe Listens-to-Winds. I'm not sure how old he is. I don't think the Merlin or Ebenezer are old enough.
* I think Demonreach has a grudge against Rashid because he was the last Warden and he abandoned his post to become the Gatekeeper. I wonder if this will be Harry's path too. In the BAT the island is destroyed, the banefire is released, the baddies escape setting off the apocalypse. Since they are immortal they cannot be killed, but to win the battle they are exiled outside of reality. Rashid passes on the torch to Harry, and he becomes the new Gatekeeper. He writes the case files while manning the Outer Gates.