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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 01:09:40 AM

Title: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 01:09:40 AM
Over on RPGnet, people sometimes read through books and post their impressions as they go. This thread is a place for me to do that with The Paranet Papers.

I've already skimmed the book, but I'm just reading it properly now. So a lot of this will be new to me.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 01:30:04 AM
Awesome interior cover art. The actual cover is nice enough, but I like the posterboard with all the notes and strings especially. This is gonna be a pretty book in print.

The introduction is an introduction. Got nothing to say about it.

I read the Vegas chapter back when it was previewed. Might as well just copy over my comments from then.

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on November 09, 2014, 10:44:53 PM
Okay, finally read this thing. My (very nitpicky) thoughts, recording as I read:

The writing is really good. It's interesting, has a strong tone, and looks very game-able. And the side notes are both amusing and informative.

I'm curious what it means for the Accords to not be binding. My impression has always been that the Accords were enforced mainly by threat of violence, so...are Las Vegas-ians protected from Mab and company?

I'm disappointed by the approach to powerful characters here. With the exception of Fortunato and maybe Brianna, I don't think any of the characters written here are likely to survive more than a moment in a fair fight with Chest Deep or stronger PCs. And even Fortunato and Brianna could probably be taken out one-on-one by a Submerged character with a few FP to burn. This wouldn't be a real problem, except whenever someone's stronger than Fortunato Evil Hat leaves them stat-less.

Also, I wish they would list skills in the rating-first system they use on PC sheets. Much easier to read, I think. But that's just me being nitpicky.

Surprised that Corin doesn't have Rapport and Empathy skills listed. His description makes it sound like he should have high ratings in both.

Kinda neat to see a White Court Vampire with no Deceit skill to speak of. (I'm talking about Nelson.)

Wow, Arlene has a lot of skill points.

I don't get the animosity in the page 24 notes. Why is Murphy threatening Butters?

Freeing Hand looks like a decent custom Power. Maybe a bit on the weak side, but not useless at all.

Fortunato's description says that his Greater Glamours are of Legendary quality. But they're actually of Legendary + 1 quality.

Brianna's writeup should say Bows (Guns) instead of just Guns, like Fortunato's. Also, is her bow really weapon 4?

What foci do Brianna and the Ice Queen use?

I don't think a sword battle between Brianna and the Ice Queen is likely. Brianna's better with her bow, and they both have pretty strong attack spells. Also, I don't think much of the Ice Queen's chances in a fight with Brianna.

Silk's writeup is wrong. Lawbreaker's cost caps at -2. Unless there's some new rule in the Paranet Papers, of course. Also, enthralling people with Channelling seems a bit much. I wouldn't let a PC do that without Ritual or Thaumaturgy.

Bibliomancy is terrible. The flavour is there, but the power just isn't.

They should specify which Lawbreaker Power Moira has. I'm guessing First, since she killed that guy in her backstory. A bit indirectly, but it probably counts. Also, she needs at least Fair Lore for that focus. Unless they changed the rules, of course.

The Ghostly Concord stunt looks rather weak.

Not totally comfortable with the glorification of vigilante cops and hitmen here.

Not sure how Worldwalker is meant to work for Tommy. It almost looks like it's supposed to let him teleport from place to place, but Worldwalker doesn't work that way at all.

The idea of casinos making attacks to drain people's money is neat. Not sure if Resources is the best defence skill, though, it seems more like a stress track skill. Discipline could be used to resist temptation, or Empathy could be used to see through it.

I like the way everyone reacts to this talk of a demon and a seal. After all, if someone tells you their evil is necessary they're probably lying...but you can't just assume that they are. Wonder if this is gonna come up in the novels later...I mean, Jim is involved with the RPG to some extent. Maybe he shares plot seeds.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 03:29:36 AM
This Russia chapter looks really cool. I like the idea of a historical setting a lot. And the Russian Revolution is a good choice.

On page 57, the paragraph that starts with "a few years ago" is missing an indent.

I like the setup here, with the letters and the history lesson and such.

Heh, Simon Petrovich even writes with a Russian accent.

The backstory here is interesting. I like the idea of biomancer Rasputin, and I'm curious about how the apprentice situation went down. Interpreting Simon's letter as a kill order sounds like the sort of thing Lawbreaking would drive you to do...

Also, about the big Scottish Warden...was Morgan Scottish?

Odd that they had Rasputin shot by a hired gunman here. The way it went down historically was so much more dramatic...though it is a nice Harry parallel.

Normally I'd ignore this sort of thing, but since there's still time to fix typos..."Non-official mass communication—pamphlets, papers, and the like—are suppressed severely." looks off to me. "mass communication" isn't plural, so shouldn't that be "is suppressed severely"?

Similarly petty: "Investigating accusations of crimes against the Party and punishing them." is a dubious sentence. It's not the accusations that they're punishing.

I like the mortal-centric power balance here.

The suggested PCs are pretty awesome. Interesting characters, tied together by a common home, with a good mix of skills and personalities.

I wish they were a bit more optimized, though. They're pretty darn weak for Submerged characters, and I think pregenerated PCs should be on the strong side since they'll often be used by new players. Newbies need a leg up.

Also, two odd things: Sveta lacks a Trouble Aspect, and Lara apparently needs a focus to cast a 4-power fire spell despite her base fire power being 4.

Oh, goddamn it. Are they really going to let people use mental evocation attacks? Ugh...how can they possibly think that that's a good idea?

Huh, a two-Refresh Stunt? That's a new one. I like the idea, though.

Missing period in Boris's Motivation.

Is Presence really the skill for negotiating business deals? Eh, I guess it's as good as any.

Trappings of Summer is not a +1 Catch.

I'm not sure if the Saboteur Stunt does anything. Isn't that a standard Craftsmanship effect?

Dmitiri's church is a pretty cool setting element. But Sharik seems a bit weak. Even with BCV Powers, someone with Fair Fists is gonna struggle against a real fighter. Though I suppose the people thrown to him aren't real fighters.

Koschei's statblocks are a bit messed up. It says "OTHER ASPECTS" above the skills of his wizard version, and the spacing between skill names and ratings is inconsistent on both sheets. And the wizard version has a total Refresh cost of "-27 or more", but I count 45 Refresh of stuff on his sheet. And the vampire version has no listed Discipline, even though he's got 4 Hunger stress boxes and an extra Hunger mild.

All typos aside, the wizard version is surprisingly similar to the Koschei I'm using in Enduring the Apocalypse.

"any purely supernatural source of damage" is not a +0 Catch.

I thought Mother Winter was Baba Yaga.

As for her horsemen, "doing everything at Superb" does not a plot device make. It's not even enough to make a character scary. A Chest Deep combat character should be able to shred someone who "does everything at Superb" unless they have other Powers. Some stats for those horsemen would have been a good idea, I think...though space is an issue.

Hm. No stats for Rasputin or Simon. That's a shame.

All quibbles aside, though, I really like this setting. If I wasn't in three DFRPG games and an Ars Magica game I might give it a try. Though come to think of it, CanGames is coming up. I could run a one-shot there.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 05:20:03 AM
And now, the Neverglades.

Those beasts sound pretty cool. I guess I'm a sucker for magical wildlife.

"Don't brag or claim more than you are"...this is really nitpicky, but shouldn't that be "claim to be more than you are"?

That slang sidebar actually made me laugh out loud.

I think knowing the Fount's location might be a worthwhile Supernatural Sense. And since "any purely supernatural source of damage" isn't actually a +0 Catch, Alec's got a point of Refresh to spare...

Also, Alec should probably have at least Average Performance. He says he plays the fiddle.

Interesting to see the WHITE COUNCIL TRAINING on Miss Lizzy...

There's a period missing in the note about giving Manny the Pure Mortal bonus. Which you should do, by the way. Charging someone 2 Refresh for Wizard's Constitution is pretty unfair.

Manny's Driving stunts seem redundant, since Stunts generally don't stack fully.

Dougie's tracking skills probably deserve a Stunt or a Supernatural Sense.

The suggested PCs here are decent in my opinion. Not as cool as the Russians, but while they're hardly optimized they don't seem as weak as the Russians either. And it's not like they're badly written or anything, it's just that the Russians are really neat.

Bit weird that they talk about Albus not messing up machinery right next to a statblock with Mana Static in it. Regardless, Machine Speaker is pretty neat.

Coat-Like-Midnight has a typo in his statblock: it should say Pack Instincts, not Pack Instinct. Also I was really surprised to see that he doesn't have Cloak of Shadows. Still, I like the character a lot.

The Colonel's statblock claims he has Good defences, but they only look Fair to me. And he's weirdly lacking in any ability that'd let him zap someone into ashes. I was expecting Channelling or something.

I don't see why the Conquistador is labelled a plot device. It sounds powerful, but not that powerful. And it's likely that it'll attack the players at some point, so some numerical stats would be really useful.

The Sentinel seems more plot-device-y, but it has stats. And it seems to be stronger than the Conquistador, so...really, the Conquistador seems to have no business being beyond stats.

That aside, the Sentinel statblocks are hinky. Ritual and Seelie Magic seems redundant. There's a missing space between "Supernatural Sense (Sonar)" and "[-1]". There's a missing comma between "+1 mild consequence" and "Armor: 2" in the Fomor version. The Catches seem undervalued. And it's weird that one version has Hulking Size and the other doesn't...the thing's size isn't in dispute, is it? I guess maybe it's to let the Fomor version use Stealth...

I'm pretty sure Listening is a Power on Harry's sheet now. It should probably a Power on Missus Simmons' sheet too, for consistency's sake.

Swampjack should probably have foci.

I thought "politesse" was a typo, but no. Turns out it's a word.

If Withered Jim is creating giant mutant bugs, then his Insectomancy probably isn't just Summoning and Binding with a different type of being.

Are there really no stats for the Savages?

Overall I think this is a solid setting, but it's not really to my taste. Small town drama isn't my thing. Exploring the wilderness is more my speed, but that's only a side element here.

Ah well. Not everything is aimed at me.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 09:55:42 PM
As for Las Tierras Rojas...

I'm with Murphy regarding the Mexican police. Seriously, they're horrible.

I'm liking the art in this book. That doesn't just go for this chapter, but I forgot to mention it before.

Missing space in "Such a thing was simply inconceivable.You keep using that word."

Dubious sentence: "This threat can hammer that home to the PCs, either by using it to complicate their lives with all sorts of enemies or by tempting them with that power." The threat isn't using itself.

This stuff about ancient being re-emerging ought to be useful in my own post-Changes game...

This bit about the Keepers being kicked out of the Council is odd, in my opinion. There aren't so many Wizards that the Council can afford to do that sort of thing casually. And sabotaging the enemy in a war doesn't seem like a bad thing at all. Maybe Peabody had them doing some seriously nasty stuff...but then why not go further than kicking them out?

Interesting plot hook with Thomas and the Old Gods there. I guess the Inca pantheon is a Venator target.

Information obtained through torture is generally rubbish, so I'm not sure how seriously to take the details about the Old Gods. Interesting, though, that the thirteen Lords of the Outer Night cannibalized thirteen gods.

The first paragraph on page 163 is indented. This is odd, since the first paragraphs of sections in this book aren't generally indented.

Being petty again: "Some of these are pretty much guesswork, while some of it is based on other notes that Alejandra included" sounds off to me. The use of "some of these are" doesn't match with the use of "some of it is".

I wonder how canon this all is. Will future Dresden novels deal with this stuff?

Alejandra's Extensive Training Stunt looks a bit overpowered when you compare it to Armed Arts.

I just noticed that the way focus bonuses are worded in this book varies from statblock to statblock. Probably not a problem, though.

Not sure why "Perception" is capitalized in the description of Mitchel's veil.

Izel's statblock is really weirdly laid out.

No idea why Galena is labelled as a plot-level NPC. From the sounds of things, she could be weaker than an ordinary mortal. Or stronger than Mab, who knows. But it seems odd to assume she's so strong.

Vargas has only Average Contacts and Resources. Which is odd, since her description says "She uses her position, her wealth, and her contacts to gather allies for Winter in their war with Summer over Gran Chaco."

Capac's mental Catch is missing. And he has an earth power specialization despite not actually being capable of earth evocations. Maybe it was meant to be spirit, to match his amulet?

Ramirez is surprisingly good at fistfighting and surprisingly bad at mind magic. I wouldn't let him do the stuff he's described as doing without using Ritual.

The last paragraph of the pink post-it note on page 189 is almost exactly the same as one of the paragraphs on page 188. That must be a mistake.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: blackstaff67 on March 15, 2015, 02:24:15 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 14, 2015, 03:29:36 AM
I thought Mother Winter was Baba Yaga.

Baba Yaga made an appearance in my first DFRPG adventure...and yes, so did I.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: wyvern on March 17, 2015, 08:47:50 PM
On Baba Yaga: I think she's Mother Winter in the same way that Vadderung is Kringle: same person, different aspect or mantle.  And the thought that she's looking for a mortal champion of her own meshes fairly well with (Cold Days spoiler)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 29, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
And I'm back. Time to read the Nevernever chapter.

I've got high hopes for this one, because I really like the Nevernever as a setting. My players will confirm; my games tend to end up there an awful lot.

Why is Butters saying he used to be a monster? Is it an "arrow to the knee" joke?

The other notes are pretty funny, I'm liking the tone here.

This Faerie Bargain campaign looks interesting.

"we are cheese upon the sauce and dough of creation"...I like Peregrine, I think she and I would get along.

Huh, I've been mispronouncing demesne. I think I'll stick with my way.

I like the PCs for Faerie Bargain quite a bit. Interesting personalities, strong relationships, and solid stats. My only real complaint is that Emily's Saboteur stunt seems to do nothing. I might also restrict Leave No One Behind to maneuvers and blocks, and give Ian some Fists/Might, but whatever.

I like the themes and threats, too. And the advice for wilderness play looks like good stuff, though I disagree with the comment about micromanaging supplies being boring.

Missing space in "But that doesn’t mean you can’t use Resources to make a declaration about what youalready have." Might not be much point in mentioning it now, but oh well.

The Magical Geographic Society and Underground Railroad game ideas sound like a lot of fun.

Windsnap's Catch should only be worth +1, since he only has 2 Refresh of Toughness to attach it to.

Is that an evil beaver-man? I should write stats for that.

The episodic campaign advice reminds me a lot of admiralducksauce's Highway to Hell game. I wonder if that's still going on? And that reminds me, is Undertown still going?

Saul's Catch shouldn't be worth +2, since he's only got 2 Refresh of Toughness. And also because it doesn't give him any weakness that Item of Power doesn't already give him.

Stat quibbles aside, I like the scrapyard scenario.

Argh, they're allowing mental attacks with evocation. Why? Why? Why?

I like the approach to "plot device" characters here. The mountain and the tree have good reasons not to have full character sheets and the things they can do are spelled out clearly enough for play.

Huh. They're interrupting each other in the notes. How's that even possible? You can't really interrupt text...

Why do so many of these NPCs have stunts from Your Story? The whole message of that chapter was "don't stick to these, make up your own stunts".

Then again, making up stunts has its perils. Home Defence probably shouldn't give +2.

That threshold-revocation trick would probably make a good Power. Would need something a little extra to be worth a Refresh, though.

Maybe I should take back my praise for their handling of "plot device" characters. The Tarantula definitely deserves a sheet. It's exactly the kind of monster that I'd want for a big fight scene.

I think there's a typo in the stats of its brood. Their stunt says says that they make Great Endurance rolls to spin webs, but they only have Good Endurance. Maybe there's a +1 bonus from the stunt that's not explicitly mentioned?

And that's an iffy use of "Human" Form, if you ask me. If you can't change back, that Power doesn't belong on your sheet. And why's their total Refresh cost unknown? Their Powers are right there.

The Piasa also deserves a proper sheet, but if they wanna stick to an outline and conserve space I see no problem with that. Though I do kinda wish they'd stop using the term "plot device", it's getting on my nerves.

Seems to me that the existence of this book breaks the pact with the Piasa. Tom's Crossing might not be happy with Paranet once this comes out.

Entropy as an evocation element, huh? I like it.

"an old woman who isn't much use in a fight"? She can toss out accuracy 6 weapon 6 attacks without breaking a sweat! (Which means her rote is underpowered, incidentally.) And with a defensive item, she could be pretty durable...

Control probably shouldn't be bolded in Auntie Ten's Thaumaturgy specializations.

It would be very easy to turn a "Safe Place" hobo sign into a "Dangerous Place" sign into a "The Shit Has Hit The Fan" sign. Wouldn't be so easy to change the sign back. Wonder if that's intentional...

Kinda tragic how lame the demon's Breath Weapon is. Makes me glad I use Natural Weaponry.

Blah, Demonic Co-Pilot.

Some odd bolding in Vincent Garrow's specializations. Also, his statblock seems to think that he has a Crafting strength of 5. He doesn't, though.

Vasiliki's statblock is off in a number of ways. No Lore skill, odd bolding in the specializations, no space between (Seelie Magic) and [-2], no mental toughness Catch, no comma between the Evocation specializations.

"You want to see a mad scientist, Borden? Keep it up!" is a great line. I should use it sometime, though it's debatable whether statisticians are actually scientists.

Why does the axe-wielding madman in the bunny suit have Great Empathy?

The Jersey Devil's Supernatural Strength should cost 4.

Turns out Evil Hat doesn't let Strength apply to Breath Weapon. It's starting to seem like they always interpret ambiguous rules in the way that makes the game less balanced. I mean, did Breath Weapon really need to be worse? Especially when you already have Claws and Fists > Weapons...

Man, that Cursed Car statblock is a mess. 4 Refresh of Powers, +2 rebate...-4 final cost? And why does it give Claws and Hulking Size? Why would driving an evil car turn you into a giant with claws? Because the car is big and dangerous, and therefore its driver should also be big and dangerous?

Okay, that's enough complaining. It might not be obvious, but I actually really liked the Urban Legends section. And the chapter overall, actually. I think this one has displaced the Russia chapter as my favourite.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 07, 2015, 02:40:55 AM
Man, I can't believe I'm still not done this book. Anyway, onto the spellcasting chapter.

I'm a bit apprehensive about this one, since there are a lot of ways it could mess up the game. The spellcasting rules are a bit delicate, balance-wise. And they already screwed up deeply by allowing mental evocation attacks.

Looks like Evil Hat has come around to running sponsor debt the way I run it. Good to see.

"it’s unlikely a sponsor will allow debt to accumulate higher than a character’s spent refresh" wow, that's really generous. I'd cut off the debt supply well before that. There's also a suggested rule for letting sponsors slap characters with mental attacks, which strikes me as deeply stupid.

The new Soulfire rules look pretty good. A definite improvement on the Your Story rules. But it has serious clarity issues.

Is the +1 power or complexity bonus for creating things applicable to enchanted item strength? By a strictly literal reading it isn't, but it looks like it's meant to be.

More importantly, does Soulfire's cost get reduced with other spellcasting powers the way most Sponsored Magic costs do? If so, holy crap this is powerful.

And does Soulfire give item slots? Balance-wise I don't think it should, but by default Sponsored Magics do and there isn't anything saying Soulfire doesn't...

The Magic in the Nevernever section is fine. I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, which is kind of a shame, but it's well-executed.

"lock-picking rote"? Rotes are evocation-only.

"a lot of psychomancy involves getting into someone’s mind, which means they’ll be able to use Discipline to resist (also, that’s very close to Lawbreaking; tread carefully)"...I don't think that's close to Lawbreaking. I think that's an incredibly clear example of what the Third Law prohibits.

"So, assessment with magic should be really, really easy (Good or less) if the target can’t resist your spell"...well, that's one of the sillier things I've read recently.

"Attacks cover any magic intended to harm or permanently change the physical and/or mental state of a target. Pretty much any magic in this category, directed against mortals, is a violation of the Laws of Magic."...no, that's not how the laws work at all.

"In normal cases, presume the complexity is based off the target’s Discipline, and equal to the severity of the hit you’d need to do in order to inflict the effect you want."...why Discipline? Most magical attacks don't really affect the mind.

"Let’s presume he doesn’t know about the attempt, so he doesn’t get to roll."...what? That's not how this game works at all!

"Keep in mind that all the normal rules for stress and consequences apply here, so you have to take that into account. Just like with evocation, you can’t control how your target elects to take the damage—you can only throw your power at them and see how it lands."...pretty sure that's the opposite of how it works in Your Story. Are they changing the rules? Do they not know them? Is the original book just written misleadingly? Who knows.

It says "if you’re in a place where people are inclined to believe in magic (or alone, such as placing a maneuver on a scene or casting a spell on yourself ), this may go down all the way to Mediocre." and "Remember! You can do more than one maneuver and add their value together, for multiple invokes." so if I'm reading right, Wizards are supposed to be capable of placing infinity aspects on themselves with a 1-shift ritual. That must be a mistake.

The advice on blocks isn't very good, but at least it doesn't contradict the rules.

Did they just change the base duration of conjuration spells?

The combat Thaumaturgy rules seem decent.

"slapping a consequence or two on an entity can gain you a powerful ally"...this blatantly contradicts what you said earlier about thaumaturgical attacks.

Power-granting thaumaturgy rules have apparently been completely rewritten. And the new rules look abusable to me. But if used as intended they're probably fine.

The necromancy rules are not so fine. Even if you ignore the blatantly mis-costed Catches in the examples, these rules are garbage. I don't even recommend reading them.

"Forcing your target to take one of their physical, mental, or social consequences. (Example: Direct damage spells like Victor Sells’ heart explodey spell, invasive mental trauma, and so on. These are always Lawbreaking—YS232—so don’t do these.)"...that's not true, and YS232 doesn't say that. This is depressing to read.

Cheer-Saving Thaumaturgy rules look pretty good apart from that. People who find thaumaturgy tedious will probably be really glad for them.

Elemental philosophy sections are fine, but I'm not sure exactly what they're useful for.

Reflexive shields...bah. Power-creeping rubbish.

"If you try to do this in your game, understand that it’s impossible to do with thaumaturgy"...Harry totally does it in Changes. It doesn't seem terribly difficult for him.

I really don't understand why using evocation elements you don't know is an option now. Does Evil Hat think that Wizards weren't versatile enough?

"If you allow this in your game, it shouldn’t be an excuse to just throw together a cherry picked list of powers that seem cool."...why not?

Mental Toughness rules look pretty solid. Different from how we did them, but not necessarily worse.

Overall...there were some good bits in this chapter, but it's a very mixed bag. I wouldn't recommend using most of it in your games.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Locnil on April 12, 2015, 05:12:29 PM
Woah, hold on. Been away for a while. Paranet Papers is finally out?
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 12, 2015, 11:57:01 PM
Quote from: Locnil on April 12, 2015, 05:12:29 PM
Woah, hold on. Been away for a while. Paranet Papers is finally out?
Well, the PDF is out if you preorder the book, which comes out around June 1. :) http://www.evilhat.com/home/the-paranet-papers-instant-pdf-preorder-is-live/ (http://www.evilhat.com/home/the-paranet-papers-instant-pdf-preorder-is-live/)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 13, 2015, 12:01:30 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 29, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
And I'm back. Time to read the Nevernever chapter.

I've got high hopes for this one, because I really like the Nevernever as a setting. My players will confirm; my games tend to end up there an awful lot.

....The other notes are pretty funny, I'm liking the tone here.

....Okay, that's enough complaining. It might not be obvious, but I actually really liked the Urban Legends section. And the chapter overall, actually. I think this one has displaced the Russia chapter as my favourite.

Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 14, 2015, 11:40:32 PM
You're welcome. Did you write that one?

The credits list you as a "Secret Weapon", whatever that means.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 19, 2015, 12:39:33 AM
I've only worked on a few Evil Hat projects, but collaboration is the deal. :) And I think my fingerprints are the clearest on "The Ways Between."
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 19, 2015, 09:15:25 PM
Good job, then.

Don't take my criticism too harshly; even if I think some of the decisions here are bad or baffling or bafflingly bad, I've been pretty impressed with the book overall. I probably come across as unusually negative because the errors are almost all errors of mechanics or editing, and mechanics and editing happen to be what I'm good at.

Anyway, onto Goes Bump.

It says that only one or two people per generation are likely to see an archangel, but I'm pretty sure more people than that have seen archangels in Chicago in just the last few years.

For some weird reason the Ick has no listed Athletics skill. The description says they have Fantastic defences, which implies Great Athletics, but if they're counting the bonus attachers get from Hulking Size it could mean they have Superb Athletics. Also the Catch math is wrong; I'm pretty sure that's a +2 Catch. Researchable and only exploitable by a small class of people. Description says the thing is probably an exceptional tracker, but the statblock gives it no tracking skills at all.

God section probably shouldn't recommend running away. If someone in this game is really powerful, they're probably also almost inescapable.

Implanted humans are surprisingly tough. About as good in a fight as the Red Court, I'd say, if reasonably well-equipped.

Balance of Fomor Magic looks iffy. On many characters it'll be weak, but that specialization double-dipping could get scary. And why does it cost 5 here when it costs 4 on the Sentinel's sheet?

Couple of minor errors in the Fire Jotun statblock. Notes say it has Great initiative and +17 lifting/breaking Might, but it actually has Good initiative and +19 lifting/breaking Might.

Channelling is amusingly bad on something like a fire giant. It can make a Superb weapon 9 attack with a club, or it can make a Good weapon 3 attack that costs stress with a fireball...even if it has foci that weren't mentioned, the magic's a bit feeble.

Skinwalker statblock is a mess. Even ignoring the miscosted Mythics...the Catch is miscosted, Modular Abilities and Supernatural Sense are missing, it probably shouldn't have Mimic Form when it already has True Shapeshifting, and it really should have skills.

Mistfiend statblock is a bit off. Skill formatting is bad, the Always On addition to Gaseous Form is a drawback that costs Refresh for some reason, and the Catch it too broad. If magic hurt it normally, any Senior Council member could have snuffed it out pretty easily. Made of Death is okay, but shouldn't cost so much for characters who don't have Gaseous Form. And I can't say I'm happy to see Myrk return.

The Einherjar aren't meant to be PCs? Why the heck not? They seem like perfect PC material to me.

Odd that Bogeymen are described as weak when they have 12 Refresh of Powers including Physical Immunity. Just going by stats, one of them could take out a lot of the stuff in this chapter.

I think they're overselling the Lords of the Outer Night here. Harry and company aren't much stronger than a Submerged group, and they beat those guys. Sure, they had help, but so did the Lords. That aside, the advice to run is bad given how Speed and spellcasting work. Better to surrender and try talking.

Even with complete immunity to sunlight, a red court vampire's Catch would still be worth at least +2.

I really don't think that centipede deserves Physical Immunity. And its notes seem to have forgotten that Speed adds to Athletics defence rolls.

The Web power is interesting. Pretty close to multiple actions. It looks more or less balanced to me, though, assuming the block lasts until broken.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 20, 2015, 12:17:29 AM
Hey, out of interest, did you grab the updated PDF that was posted on 3/18?

http://www.evilhat.com/home/paranet-papers-pdf-updated/
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 21, 2015, 05:50:52 AM
Not until now. I'm doing this read-through with the original PDF.

I thought about getting the updated one when I first heard about it, but it seemed the changes were minor so I decided to go ahead with the original. Upside is it's consistent, downside is there are a few more typos.

Anyway, now for Goes Bump. The final chapter.

Good margin-humour here.

There's a spacing error in Ancient Mai's Lore skill. Also, her notes say that she can casually control 6 shifts in elements she doesn't specialize in...but she's specialized in every element she can use.

Maybe I should revise my Bob stats to include the Sight or some Supernatural Senses.

I like Butters' I Have Just The Thing stunt. I may have to steal it. Some of this other stunts look rather narrow though.

A little uncertain about Molly's "Spell" power option. It's an interesting idea, and I've tried making something similar myself, but I think it might be exploitable.

This is more of a general comment, but it kinda bugs me how anti-optimized the canon characters are. Seems to me like the Dresden Files Role-Playing Game should encourage playing characters similar to the people in the Dresden Files novels. But in practice, being like Harry means wasting lots of Refresh...so the system discourages it pretty strongly.

While I'm on the subject of general comments, I'm liking the non-mechanical stuff here. The writeups are generally informative and interesting. Aspects are pretty solid too.

Wait, they're letting people Declare enchanted items mid-session? It's like they think Wizards are underpowered or something. Also, Harry's bear buckle and unicorn hair rope don't actually follow the rules. Can't say I approve of this nonsense.

I'm not very impressed by the claim that it would be a terrible thing if wizards tried to improve society. Generally speaking, people who try to make the world better make the world better. Heroism works.

Huh, the Gatekeeper looks nothing like I imagined him.

"We don’t really want to speculate on what a -100 refresh character might look like (and you shouldn’t either)"...sez you. I wrote up a -100 Refresh character a while ago, and I'm still satisfied with those stats. If Scion ever shows up in either of the Worm games I'm in, I'd be happy to see that character sheet used.

The plot device section is reasonably well-done even though the philosophy behind it is silly. Interestingly, the quality of the section shows the silliness of the philosophy pretty well; if you follow its advice, a plot device basically becomes a regular character with very high stats. Which is exactly what it should be...

I really think Listens To Wind should have the Doctor stunt. His description specifically notes multiple medical degrees! Also there's a spacing error in his Discipline. And I'm not sure whether these stats are up to the challenge of fighting that skinwalker...but whatever, the skinwalker stats are bad anyway.

I think Martin's a bit understatted. His crazy triple-agent gambit indicated some serious skill at manipulation, and he seemed to be well-connected in the Fellowship. Give him some stunts, I say.

Spacing errors in Ebenezar's Conviction and Discipline. And the costing on his staff is messed up.

Nice to see that they revised Sacred Guardian. Shame they didn't do the same with The Bark. Also, I think Unity of Senses is redundant with those Supernatural Senses.

"In fact, why do I even need to be in your game?" You tell 'em, Murphy.

Like Martin, Peabody could use a stunt or two to represent his mundane skills.

Does Thomas really deserve Fantastic Resources?

Susan is missing a Catch for her Recovery.

Not sure why Sanya has Fantastic Endurance. Stamina isn't really his main thing, is it?

Also not sure why anyone would find Harry killing Slate hard to believe. Morally, I'd say killing Slate is considerably better than killing a lot of supernatural monsters.

I wonder if that Terry Pratchett line predates the man's death.

I think Binder deserves better skills. He's a reasonably competent guy. Kind of a shame that they didn't include minion rules for him, but I can see why they didn't. Minions are hard to make rules for.

I don't think Warden Chandler's specialization pyramid works. He's got four +2s and only two +1s on his evocation.

Kind of odd that guys like Harry and Morgan have no Mental Toughness, given how many newly-statted characters have it. But I guess that's unavoidable when you're writing the rules as you go along.

Christos might deserve some political stunts...but maybe this is just my own stunt-happiness talking.

Missing period at the end of the margin note on page 348.

Father Roarke suffers no penalties due to range...does this game even have range penalties? Also, guy probably deserves better Contacts.

Stevie D's notes say that he has Good defence, but I don't think that's true. Guy's got Mediocre or Average Athletics, after all.

Those new Power options for Flesh Mask are just terribly written. Vulnerability to sunlight is a matter of compels and Catches...so if you want to change it, change Aspects and Catches. Cover and Shelter are a bad idea executed badly.

"Obviously, the energy required for such a spell is massive and its particulars can’t really be statted in game terms." Not so! I statted it up a while ago, it wasn't that hard.

"Psychomancy" is misspelled in the Baroness Leblanc's statblock.

"But really, why would you bother?" I think this line belongs in the little blue box to the left.

There are some minor errors in Mag's statblock. Superhuman Mental Toughness should be Supernatural Mental Toughness, he has only two Evocation elements before his Sponsored Magic is taken into account, and the description of his staff says "offensive" once and "offense" once. The asymmetry bugs me.

On a related note, why is "Control" bolded in all these thaumaturgy specialization lists?

There's an extra space above Marcy's high concept. And her notes don't perfectly align with the description of her beast form skills, but honestly some complaints are too pedantic even for me. So I won't go into detail.

Nothing has "Superhuman Strength" and "Inhuman Reflexes", which aren't actually things. His notes get his initiative wrong and have a page XX error.

Interesting that Arianna turned herself white to talk to the White Council. Are they a bunch of racists? That aside, I don't think she deserves a statblock this powerful. I mean...Mythic Strength and (two kinds of) Toughness? Really? Two Epic Skills and a Legendary? I don't think she was that powerful. Also there's a page XX error and some skill spacing issues. And her mental and hunger tracks should have two extra mild consequences, not one.

The Mythic Recovery and Concession sidebar is sensible, but doesn't go far enough. Inhuman and Supernatural Recovery have similar issues. And even without Recovery, having concessions pay FP is kind of a silly rule.

"Marcone even set Maria"...I think "set" should maybe be "sent" here, but I'm not sure.

I like the Fully Auto Florentine stunt.

I think making Tilly a mortal was a good call. I could see this guy as a PC.

"Well, it’s more of a reference book. People don’t usually read it from cover to cover…" I don't know why I find it funny to read this after doing exactly that, but I do.

"Just seems odd for it to end so abruptly." Same goes for this thread, actually. So I'll make a wrap-up post after this one.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 21, 2015, 06:08:46 AM
Well, I'm done. Not sure how productive this was; when I write down my thoughts as I go, it really emphasizes my nitpickiness. And that's not a trait that needs much emphasis.

Anyway, overall I'm fairly happy with the book. But not thrilled.

There's some great setting material here and some great adventure ideas. The writing is generally solid, and it's fun to read. Thing is, the crunch is a mixed bag. I feel like the people writing this didn't really have the best grasp of the system's weak points. And there are quite a few minor errors here and there that could've been caught in editing.

I wish I hadn't been so busy recently, because if I had had the time to do this whole read-through in a day or two I could've caught a lot of stuff that ended up going to print. Ah well.

Hey, jeditigger. Is there some way I can apply to be a proofreader or a beta tester or something?

Because I think I could've improved the editing (and maybe also mechanical rigor) of this book if I had gotten an earlier look at it, and I'd like the chance to do just that if Evil Hat puts out another DFRPG book any time soon.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 22, 2015, 01:45:34 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on April 21, 2015, 06:08:46 AM
Hey, jeditigger. Is there some way I can apply to be a proofreader or a beta tester or something?

Because I think I could've improved the editing (and maybe also mechanical rigor) of this book if I had gotten an earlier look at it, and I'd like the chance to do just that if Evil Hat puts out another DFRPG book any time soon.

Well, I'm not a PM; I'm just a creative monkey on the EHP team who lends a hand with the other tasks when needed. :) But you can check the Evil Hat site for when Fred and company mention needing help. And I know fresh rounds of testing are about to happen on some games. :)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: vultur on April 23, 2015, 03:06:55 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on April 19, 2015, 09:15:25 PM
I think they're overselling the Lords of the Outer Night here. Harry and company aren't much stronger than a Submerged group, and they beat those guys. Sure, they had help, but so did the Lords. That aside, the advice to run is bad given how Speed and spellcasting work. Better to surrender and try talking.

Eh, I'd argue that Harry, Sanya & Murphy at least are well above Submerged (probably ~17 base Refresh/Fantastic skill cap) by Changes, and all three plus Susan are drawing on quite a bit of Sponsor Debt and/or Temporary Powers in that fight.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 23, 2015, 03:38:16 AM
They are indeed well above Submerged, but they've spent their Refresh and skill points in suboptimal ways. So they're not actually much more powerful than sensibly-built Submerged characters.

Quote from: jeditigger on April 22, 2015, 01:45:34 AM
Well, I'm not a PM; I'm just a creative monkey on the EHP team who lends a hand with the other tasks when needed. :) But you can check the Evil Hat site for when Fred and company mention needing help. And I know fresh rounds of testing are about to happen on some games. :)

Alright, noted. I'm not so keen on helping with other Evil Hat games, though; this is the only one I'm really into.

Fred's note on the updated version says "Any errors that remain will have to go into an errata file."

Is there a special place for me to submit the other errors I've found? Or should I just email them over?
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 24, 2015, 01:42:56 AM
Already on it. But thank you!
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: zakmo86 on April 24, 2015, 01:39:16 PM
Before I bought the book, I thought @santaphrax's critique was a little harsh. Since buying it, I have to almost agree with most of the things he's saying. The book feels rushed and like the creators lost excitement about it before they began (I can imagine creative meetings going something like, "We'll start on our part once the art starts coming in. I know we've been waiting, but there's not a lot we can do until we have the go ahead from legal and approval on the art. The fans will just have to deal. Just check email the designer to remind them. Now shhh; Kickstarter."). The best: the new settings/cities. The characters and settings are really cool and it's sort of nice/very interesting to see all the variety.

The worst part: if you're sensitive to editing and consistency in layout, this book will drive you nuts. The stat blocks don't always match. This is minor for me, but some people will find it very annoying. The worst part for me is the "clarifications" on spellcasting and new powers. After my first perusal, and even now after reading and re-reading, I have more questions than answers. My impression is that the creators got fed up with opinionated players posting about rules and criticism from the most avid fans of the game (which should be a good thing; people really care about the universe and game setting and that's why they criticize even if we might sound like trolls). It's like the creators wanted to just put something out so people would shut up about it. This is most clear in the stat blocks for some of the characters from the book. Binder for example: he has one power that costs an insane amount of Refresh. It was like someone said, "Our deadline was a year ago, just throw some $*i! skills in, make it sponsored magic (or call them Plot Level NPCs), and let it fly. We've got to get back to our Kickstarter."

Even the tone of the writing sounds like someone speaking to an audience they're annoyed with in later sections.

Maybe my expectations were too high because Your Story and Our World were so good and because Fate as a system is my favorite system. I was left feeling a little disappointed, though.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: potestas on April 25, 2015, 09:37:19 PM
i love the new book I love the clairifications especially the ability to use spells to duplicate powers. Its an excellent addition and I look forward to more...probably in a while. Thank you

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 25, 2015, 10:25:45 PM
Just speaking for myself, I appreciate constructive feedback of any variety, because it helps me do better next time. :)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 26, 2015, 04:44:54 AM
Quote from: zakmo86 on April 24, 2015, 01:39:16 PM
Before I bought the book, I thought @santaphrax's critique was a little harsh. Since buying it, I have to almost agree with most of the things he's saying.

Thanks. In an odd sort of way, that's high praise.

Quote from: zakmo86 on April 24, 2015, 01:39:16 PM
The book feels rushed and like the creators lost excitement about it before they began (I can imagine creative meetings going something like, "We'll start on our part once the art starts coming in. I know we've been waiting, but there's not a lot we can do until we have the go ahead from legal and approval on the art. The fans will just have to deal. Just check email the designer to remind them. Now shhh; Kickstarter.").

I dunno. It's possible that there was some rushing, but I think the main problem is just that Evil Hat doesn't do rigour very well.

Your Story and Evil Hat have many of the same problems as the Paranet Papers. For example, look at the example spells and magic items in Your Story. They frequently ignore the rules. And IIRC the version of Fate Core that went out before the fan-editing process was pretty messy.

Some people are really into numbers, game balance, and getting the crunch exactly right. I'm one of them. I'm not sure if anyone like that works at Evil Hat.

Quote from: zakmo86 on April 24, 2015, 01:39:16 PM
After my first perusal, and even now after reading and re-reading, I have more questions than answers. My impression is that the creators got fed up with opinionated players posting about rules and criticism from the most avid fans of the game (which should be a good thing; people really care about the universe and game setting and that's why they criticize even if we might sound like trolls).

If they were responding to opinionated players, it probably wasn't the ones around here. Because if they were responding to us, I think they would've explained how Feeding Dependency was intended to work. And some other stuff like that.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: zakmo86 on April 26, 2015, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: jeditigger on April 25, 2015, 10:25:45 PM
Just speaking for myself, I appreciate constructive feedback of any variety, because it helps me do better next time. :)

The book really did have some awesome sections; I particularly liked almost every piece of artwork (I think Evil Hat has some great art directors), the stories and characters in the new locations were really interesting, and some of the new rules were informative, if a little confusing.

Particularly the Spell power on Molly's write up that gives you a rebate on a Power (I think that's where it's at). Does anyone have clarification on how that's suppose to work? I guess the number one question I asked myself with the magic addendum was usually along the lines of, "Why would they make it work that way? It makes it worse, not better." It just sounded at times like the authors were thinking of a particular situation when writing things. Like they were irritated someone out there wouldn't understand their creative genius and they had boundaries-pushing greatness to work on instead wasting their time on clarifying something that was perfect the first time.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on April 26, 2015, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on April 26, 2015, 04:44:54 AM
If they were responding to opinionated players, it probably wasn't the ones around here. Because if they were responding to us, I think they would've explained how Feeding Dependency was intended to work. And some other stuff like that.

Just to be sure, I want to say I'm speaking only for myself here. :)

I don't post here much - too busy with a full-time job and working on two other projects for EHP right now - but I like to read what's going on, see how people are using the games. I know other Evil Hatters are lurking, even more sporadically than me in posting. So we see the feedback, read the suggestions here and on other forums...just not everything will make it into a game for a variety of reasons. Jim's work is so flaming popular (Harry? Flaming? Get it?) that we could probably have two 2K tomes and just scratch the surface of what people want to see!

If you guy feel really passionate about helping out, keep an eye on evilhat.com's news to see when the next round of playtesting comes up.

:)
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: zakmo86 on April 27, 2015, 02:16:33 AM
Quote from: jeditigger on April 26, 2015, 06:49:49 PM
Just to be sure, I want to say I'm speaking only for myself here. :)

I don't post here much - too busy with a full-time job and working on two other projects for EHP right now - but I like to read what's going on, see how people are using the games. I know other Evil Hatters are lurking, even more sporadically than me in posting. So we see the feedback, read the suggestions here and on other forums...just not everything will make it into a game for a variety of reasons. Jim's work is so flaming popular (Harry? Flaming? Get it?) that we could probably have two 2K tomes and just scratch the surface of what people want to see!

If you guy feel really passionate about helping out, keep an eye on evilhat.com's news to see when the next round of playtesting comes up.

:)


For the record, the people behind Evil Hat and all the people who work on the different products they put out are super talented. DFRPG is by far my favorite TTRPG out there, followed by anything else Fate. It's also the only game studio that I know anything about besides the guys behind that one the dungeon and fire breathing lizards game. When I got my hands on Fate, it was like a light shining down from the heavens pointing me home.

Z
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: black omega on May 01, 2015, 04:44:41 PM
I've just glanced over the finished product, I'll get around to really digging into it this weekend.  Las Vegas just doesn't click for me, I'm not quite sure why yet. I was surprised and pleased to see something on the Russian Revolution.  But I'm a history buff, I'm not sure how many groups will actually have use for this section.

I have to admit, after playing Fate Core for a bit, it's hard to go back to the skill set of Dresden.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Rougarou on May 01, 2015, 09:36:05 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on April 21, 2015, 05:50:52 AM
I don't think Warden Chandler's specialization pyramid works. He's got four +2s and only two +1s on his evocation.

I seem to recall seeing this too, but if I'm not mistaken, the pyramid works if you throw his thaumaturgy specializations into the same pyramid. I found it interesting because it implies that I've misunderstood the rules on specializations this entire time... I also thought they had to be balanced entirely within evocation and thaumaturgy separately.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 01, 2015, 11:18:53 PM
Quote from: Rougarou on May 01, 2015, 09:36:05 PM
I also thought they had to be balanced entirely within evocation and thaumaturgy separately.

They do. Your Story page 183: "when you're calculating, look at Evocation and Thaumaturgy separately".

It's not an important mistake, but it is a pretty pointless one. The sort of thing that makes me wish I'd gotten an earlier look at the book.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: black omega on May 03, 2015, 04:08:56 PM
Finally got a chance to start going through the book.  Most of what Sanct says still applies.  I think the weird threat by Murphy against Butters got moved to page 28.  Though I would take Ice Queen's Weapon: 7 'fae forged longsword' over Brianna's Weapon: 4 bow unless Bri can run fast enough to stay away. Not sure why Ice Queen (much more a manipulation type than fighter) would have the best weapon in the book.  She should have goons for stuff like that.

So, what DID happen to Herbert Plainfield.  It's almost like the Dragon passed his position on to Herbert instead of letting the demon pick.  The intelluctus over Las Vegas would match this.  Herbert's comment about how he would use the knowledge differently than the Dragon also draws parallels.  Maybe this was a last strike by the Dragon against the Demon with him sensing his death was imminent.

The idea that the demon is holding the door closed on something even worse is ok, though about the only thing worse is mass slaughter.  Indications are that the ritual using the demon to seal that away had to be a long time ago.  But Sin City is a recent invention, so why did it suddenly need this, when it went centuries in the middle of the desert just fine?  If Dresden has doomed the city then something has changed.  These questions are asked later but there is no answer.  This is a limitation of the format, since the GM for the game won't know any more than the characters in the rule book.

Las Vegas really does seem like a great hunting ground for vampires of all types.  Especially White Court since there is so much intense emotion.  I wonder why Las Vegas is just for the losers in the white Court.  With the sheer wealth that passes through as well as all the power people that visit, it seems like a natural place to want influence.

I don't quite get the Followers of Ishtar.  Ishtar classically was a goddess of war and fertility (in various ways) including prostitution.  So having the Hand of Ishtar as the warrior who's against prostitution and the balding horndog who doesn't need roofies because he put four points into incite lust as the representative of the lust side seems strange. Can gods change their character significantly?  Odin in the books is pretty close to the Odin in the myths.  Maybe a little more trustworthy, but I have a feeling he knows Harry's importance against the Lords of the Outer Dark.  The way Butcher has described mantles of power makes it sound like they are very clearly defined.  I wonder if Ishtar got a new mantle from someplace, thus adding to her areas of interest.

Unseelie Accords not binding?  Really?  This is never explained and doesn't seem like it would work.  Based on the books cities or places don't sign the accords, groups or people do.  The White Court and White Council are part of the accords.  If Warden Ramirez blows up the Ice Queen like Harry did the Red Court Vampire I'm pretty sure there is nothing in Las Vegas that would make Lara Raith say "Oh, it was in Vegas?  We can't do anything then."  The idea the city is free of Mab's influence is pretty much invalidated by the presence of the Ice Queen.

Fortunato's picture so reminds me of a modern take on the Mad Hatter, appropriate for the head of Wanderland.

The Uccisori della Umbra funded by the mafia should be past tense on page 20, since Tommy's write up makes it clear they used to be, but are currently freelance.

I like the Hard Way Squad, that seems tailor made for PCs.  They sound like a Vegas version of the Untouchables.

"miserable White Court vampires have been ejected from the food chain by their more powerful brethren, and addicts hopelessly dependent on the Red Court’s saliva will do anything for another fix. "  This feels like it should be past tense.  The White Court's more powerful brethren were wiped out by Harry and while i'm sure the addicts are still hopeless there are no more red court vampires to give a fix.  Maybe some one bottles and stored their saliva?  Eewww.

I wonder how many cities have tunnel systems beneath them.  Probably more than I'd ever imagine.

I think they missed a chance by not spending more than two lines on how gambling can be done in Dresden.  It's not just social skills, as the Ice Queen will say while going over the odds of making her straight on the river.  So a little more idea of how to work Deceit, Rapport, Empathy, Scholarship, etc into contests in games of chance would have been nice.

Wait.  The demon has a hold on Las Vegas because if anyone came in with force it could just drop the seal.  But every indication is no one knows the demon is there (outside of this game book).  Unless we go all meta and assume this book is what's revealing to everyone the demon is there, so stay away.

Overall, Las Vegas is good for a brightly glittering game with a heart that is grim and potentially apocalyptic. Which does seem to fit the image of Las Vegas with the bright lights, the entertainments and gambling, as well as the despair, the poor and the dark side of things.  A little like a top winding down things are starting to become unstable, power players are ready to make their moves and the adult in the room (the Dragon) is no longer around to keep order.   Add in possible White Council interference and that could push things over the edge.  Strangely, you can just remove the Demon and the threat beneath Las Vegas and the game runs the same.  Since the demon is just watching he's not an active part in what's going on, and we don't have any clues to his motivation aside from the recent need to feed on corruption.  This is the weakest part of the city write up, IMHO, the rest of it can be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 03, 2015, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: black omega on May 03, 2015, 04:08:56 PM
Though I would take Ice Queen's Weapon: 7 'fae forged longsword' over Brianna's Weapon: 4 bow unless Bri can run fast enough to stay away.

Given that Brianna has Supernatural Speed, she can stay away pretty easily. But of course in an actual fight the Ice Queen would probably use magic to attack.

Thing is, Brianna will always win initiative. And since the Ice Queen's Athletics is Average to Fair, and she's only got 3 physical stress boxes, Brianna can very easily hit her and put consequences on her. Once that happens, Brianna has a pretty crushing advantage.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Jebm on May 05, 2015, 12:07:41 PM
Having finally bought a pdf of the paranet papers, I'd say overall, I really liked it, but it kind of like they started rushing, half way through hence all of the spelling errors and write up problems.

The Las Vegas, and Russia start off pretty strong, the NeverGlade was interesting, if somewhat confusing with a few of the characters and powers they chose, and the Red Lands was okay, while the Road Trip Chapter was a mix of meh and just plain weird

For some of the character updates, it really seems like some of the new character's abilities were kind of undersold or put into the "Pointless to write stats for" category which is something that the first two books did as well, that really annoyed me
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 06, 2015, 02:22:44 AM
You really didn't like The Ways Between?

I thought that was the best chapter. Maybe it's the Nevernever fan in me.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Chee on May 06, 2015, 02:28:26 PM
Working on a full review myself. I love pretty much all the new setting stuff and the updated magic rules. I got the physical book last week and, boy, it is pretty. I do wish we had had time to proofread it for them.

A couple of disappointments for me were that we still didn't get any examples of non-casting powers in play. It would've been super helpful to see some play write ups of Incite/EmoVamp, Demonic Co-pilot, running a supernatural sense (like 'Nothing''s Sonar),etc. Not to mention maybe some updates on those. Demonic Co-pilot has got to be the worse, since it murders you to use it, it would've been cool to see it get a stress track like Soulfire or Hunger.

The stat blocks were a bit of a let down. There was a huge opportunity to throw in all kinds of new stunts and methods for making them from Fate Core. Plop. There is a severe lack of stunts across the board. Thomas should/could have them for stealth/investigation/weapons/guns/resources, Susan should have had some spy and reporter stuff, Martin was a master spy and sniper (could have had two straight from YS at least), and so on. Also, all these caster types and not one of them makes neat foci, its all specs and Enchanted items.

Speaking of that, all those magic types, they could have put together some new spell examples for each of them to put in the example magic area. Things like summoning ghost protectors, tossing curses at channeling speed, some of Dresden's blasts powered with Soulfire, and...so on, I guess.

Makes me want to go back and restat the characters myself. Really hope there is a vol. 4 and maybe have it cover less of the magic stuff and more of the rest.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 12, 2015, 12:44:52 AM
Just went poking through the book again, and now that I'm not so focused on the text I'm starting to pay attention to the layout and graphic design. It's really excellent.

Three cheers for Daniel Solis.

I think. He's the one listed in the credits for "layout and graphic design", anyway.

Quote from: Chee on May 06, 2015, 02:28:26 PM
The stat blocks were a bit of a let down. There was a huge opportunity to throw in all kinds of new stunts and methods for making them from Fate Core. Plop. There is a severe lack of stunts across the board. Thomas should/could have them for stealth/investigation/weapons/guns/resources, Susan should have had some spy and reporter stuff, Martin was a master spy and sniper (could have had two straight from YS at least), and so on.

I would've preferred more stunts too. Might just be my (or our) personal taste, but I find that a stunt or two really adds personality to a Power-heavy statblock.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Chee on May 12, 2015, 04:13:25 AM
Not that there is anything wrong with the powers themselves, in most cases. Just a couple of stunts thrown on top would have filled them out a little more.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: black omega on May 12, 2015, 04:21:01 PM
I was working on comments for Russia but a crash ate them.  I have Lazarus now, but that's after the fact.  Overall the history nerd in me really liked the Russian section.  The history info dumps combined with the more personal touch of Simon's story and the trouble he got in was enjoyable.  It's fun to read between the lines, and the notes do a good job of pointing these parts out and speculating what was really going on.  I'm not sure how many games will actually use this information, but it's well written.  The Russian Revolution was a fascinating and scary time.  The write up gets across alot of the bleak desperation of the time.  If the Bolshies don't get you, the supernatural will.  If winter doesn't starve or freeze you, Winter may.  The two versions of Koschei the Deathless were nice.  Baba Yaga is possibly the mantle of the Winter Mother but that information may not have been known at the time theyh wrote her up.  Baba Yaga's knights really should be scions, not plot devices.  Aside from that my only complaint is we needed a write up for Rasputin and I wanted one for Simon as well.  Rasputin was so involved in what was going on that not using him in a game based on this would be a shame.  He's also the most recognizable character from this period. 
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Lawgiver on May 12, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: black omega on May 12, 2015, 04:21:01 PM
Overall the history nerd in me really liked the Russian section.
I have the same positive reaction to the historical accuracy of Las Vegas. Wifey and I love the place and go as often as we can wrangle. I've learned tons about the city over the years (I'm creeping up on 58 very soon). I'm not bashful in saying that the designers not only captured a goodly amount of the place's 'essence' in their write up, they managed to put a very interesting 'spin' on it to fit it into the DV.  Good job, guys.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Chee on May 12, 2015, 10:04:31 PM
The Neverglades was my favorite. I think they did very well with the side boxes. The stuff on the culture, like vocabulary and proper manners, is spot on.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: jeditigger on May 15, 2015, 12:34:03 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 12, 2015, 12:44:52 AM
Just went poking through the book again, and now that I'm not so focused on the text I'm starting to pay attention to the layout and graphic design. It's really excellent.

Three cheers for Daniel Solis.

I think. He's the one listed in the credits for "layout and graphic design", anyway.

Yep. Daniel is the man.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 21, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
Got my physical book a couple of days ago. It actually arrived before the notification email, surprisingly enough.

Today I had time to look through it, and...it's a very nice book. No surprises in sight, so if anyone reading this is worrying about printing problems they should stop doing that now.

I feel like I should add more to this post. I guess...it has a nice new-book smell? And it's really heavy?
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: blackstaff67 on May 21, 2015, 03:24:53 AM
Hope the binding holds up.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 22, 2015, 12:06:32 AM
I'm optimistic. I have a copy of Your Story that gradually fell apart, and it never felt as solid as this one.

And as far as I know, no other Evil Hat books ever had that problem.
Title: Re: Where I Read: The Paranet Papers
Post by: blackstaff67 on June 08, 2015, 05:15:25 AM
Just got my hard copy of the book.  Being a self-professed Viking/Norse geek, I was somewhat underwhelmed by  the entries on Donar Vaderrung and the Einherjar.  Also somewhat let down by the lack of a real write-up on Gard's Rune magic--I was really hoping for a paragraph or three.
1) Perhaps the Einherjar are diminished due to Vaderrung's own diminishing; I really expected something tougher since these were the guys the gods wanted to have fight alongside them against the Jotuns. 
2) Perhaps they didn't bother reading Changes that deeply (or read the boards for hints) and didn't want to commit themselves to something that might've violated JB's canon.  Whatever.  A phone call would've solved that problem.

The rest of the book looks quite interesting and I'm otherwise satisfied with it.

Oh, and Sanctaphrax?  McCoy is definitely Sottish.  Name aside. JB gives his a burr when remonstrating The Merlin in PG, I think.  IIRC, a 'brogue' is Irish, a 'burr' is Scottish.  A long time living in North Ameriuca probably accounts for the transformation into an Ozark accent.