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Messages - OZ

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31
Are you seeing anything at the Comicon for the author events? I see the stuff for panels that Jim is on, but then a big TBA for Friday for "author event"? Is this a signing that will be held sometime on Friday?
I don't know. I see that Jim is scheduled to be signing books from 12 to 1 on Friday and Saturday and from 1:30 to 2:30 on Sunday. Does anyone know how many books are allowed? One? Three? In addition to the spotlight on Jim Butcher, I want to see the Magic Systems: Urban Fantasy vs Epic Fantasy panel and maybe either the comedy one or the setting one. Other than that I think I'll just play it by ear. I wouldn't mind seeing a panel with Rothfuss or Modesitt and there are a few panels that actually sound interesting because of the subject matter rather than the authors that are on them. This is my first Comicon so I'm not sure whether I should be scheduling everything that I can or keeping my schedule as open as possible. I really want to spend some time just people watching.

32
For some reason I was thinking the Poisoned Pen was Friday night. I have other obligations Thursday. Oh well. I'm planning attend several of Jim's panels and the Spotlight on Jim Butcher event.

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MSD!! I didn't know you posted any more. I actually splurged and bought a ticket to Comicon. I haven't decided whether I'm going to the Poisoned Pen signing. I hate to take room from someone that can't make it to Comicon. On the other hand it's always fun meeting new fans of Jim's work.

34
Author Craft / Re: How do you think/plot on a novel's scale?
« on: May 18, 2014, 10:54:37 PM »
You seem to be arguing why you think short stories are better than novels. That's not what you asked. You asked what the difference was. Novels by their very definition are not going to be as "tightly woven" as a good short story any more than a short story is going to be as "tightly woven" as a good poem. It seems that the heart of your problem is that you don't like novels because they aren't short stories. You don't like extra plot lines. You feel that the main plot is the only important plot and everything else is only meaningful as far as it serves the main plot. In other words you prefer short stories. That's fine. That's your personal preference but don't attack people who are trying to help you write a novel by telling them you don't like novels. Your reasoning is circular and serves no purpose.

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Author Craft / Re: How do you think/plot on a novel's scale?
« on: May 17, 2014, 01:50:41 PM »
I don't know that I can add anything to the great responses you have gotten from superpsycho and meg_evonne but let me try to emphasize some of the points that they have made.

Quote
Caution: Writing long still requires every word, sentence, and paragraph add to the story and be necessary just like in shorts, but you give yourself the latitude to explore in order to satisfy your reader.
ME is, as usual, right on. I think this may be the heart of your trouble. If you are reading novels that have a lot of unecessary words then either they are poorly written or you are missing some of what's going on in the story. If you are reading stories where the secondary plots are not related or needed then again either you are missing something or the stories are poorly written.

Another way to think of novels is that they are a little closer to real life. In real life a police detective (for example) is going to have more obstacles than just catching the killer. He (or she) may have a family. He may be alone and wish he had a family. He may have conflict with coworkers. He may face budget problems either at home or at work. He will have other cases that have to be worked in addition to the main one. He might have health issues. These things are not separate from the main plot. Any one of these could keep him from solving the case. They are not artificial additions. They are real life issues.

Just look at what you face in trying to be a novel writer. It's not just a single plot line of "do I have the talent?" or "can I get this novel published?". It's do I have the time? Can I find an agent? Can I find a publisher? Can I figure out how to successfully make my short stories into novels? Do I have a full time job that I'm trying to juggle with my writing? How about friends and family? Are they supporting my efforts? Are they hindering them? What if my car breaks down or my kids get sick or I get sick (I don't know anything about your personal life so I'm obviously just creating random what-ifs.) What if my dead beat sibling shows up at my door and wants to move in?

All of these things and a thousand more can and will (if applicable) have an affect on your success as a novel writer. They are obstacles that have to be overcome. They are all sub plots to the main plot of you trying to write and publish a novel. That does not mean that they are not directly connected to the main plot. Some of them, like family, friends and health, may actually be bigger than the main plot. Some of them like car problems or bad plumbing may be subplots that only occupy a chapter or two but all of them play a part.

A short story might tell how you discovered the difference between novels and short stories. A novel might tell how you went from writing short stories to become a published novelist. Each story is important. Each is different.

Sorry for being so long winded. I guess I need more work on my short story skills.

36
Author Craft / Re: How do you think/plot on a novel's scale?
« on: May 17, 2014, 02:52:11 AM »
I'm sure volumes could be written about this subject but I'll attempt to at least get the ball rolling. There can be many different things that will lead to the difference in length between a novel and a short story. These are not necessarily absolutes but hopefully they will give you some ideas.

A novel allows for more characterization. One of the biggest faults of many novel writers (IMHO) is creating caracitures with no depth, villains that are completely evil with no redeeming features and no reason for their evil, heroes that are noble and good just because. In a short story where one doesn't have the time or space to develop characters completely, it can be acceptable to focus on one or two characteristics that are important to the story. In a novel one can take the time to let readers get to know characters. There is more time to show rather than tell what makes a character tick. It is also possible to develop secondary characters to a far greater degree than can usually be done in a short story.

Probably the biggest difference is found in the plots. One of my professors used to say that a long story with a single plot was just a short story that needed to be edited. A true novel will have several intertwining plots. To give some examples that are cliched but still affective in the right hands, the main plot of a murder mystery might be finding who the killer is. In addition to this however there may be a plot line about the main character's struggle with addicition. There may be a romance, there could be struggles with bills or dealing with the death of a loved one. In fantasy stories it is common for the characters to find it necessary to adjust to a gift in their life or a curse. They may have been transported to a new world or have just become aware of the magical world that secretly exists in the shadows. These secondary plots can be as long as the main plot or "short stories" imbedded in the novel that play out over a few chapters. In the case of series, some of the plots may actually be longer than the individual novel.

Novels also give you more space to engage in "world building". If you are setting your story in a fantasy world and are following the adage to show rather than tell, then the longer length of the novel gives you more time and space to show the reader the world you have created and the rules that govern it by actually putting your characters into situations that demonstrate whatever you think is important for them to know.

The difference is not so much that the idea is "big" enough for a  novel. Although they overlap, they are very different art forms. Some would say the short story is more difficult because you have to condense everything down. Probably the best way for you to see the difference would be to search out some authors that have taken their short stories and rewritten them into novels. It is fairly common in genre fiction. Normally I could think of a dozen but right now I am blank as to examples. I am sure someone here will be able to come up with examples for you to examine.

37
Author Craft / Re: Published Author On Board
« on: May 17, 2014, 02:19:06 AM »
Difficulty in writing more mainstream fiction or difficulty in generating interest from mainstream publishers, if you don't mind me asking?

38
Calendar Event Discussion / Re: Jim at Phoenix ComiCon - June 5-8
« on: May 09, 2014, 06:31:32 AM »
I wanted to go to Coppercon as well but I was broke at the time.

39
Author Craft / Re: Character Development - Chicken or Egg Approach
« on: May 06, 2014, 04:01:26 AM »
Sorry for the delay in replying but my nephew got married over the weekend and I haven't done much on the board. The setting is modern suburban although much of the story will take place elsewhere in the old cyclone, rabbit hole, wardrobe type shift.

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Author Craft / Re: Character Development - Chicken or Egg Approach
« on: May 02, 2014, 11:59:07 PM »
Quote
Names are an opportunity; they allow you to imply things about background and social context.

I think this is one of the reasons that I struggle. I want the names to say something and sometimes I feel like they are not saying what I want them to.

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Author Craft / Re: Character Development - Chicken or Egg Approach
« on: May 02, 2014, 01:38:52 PM »
I like to know my main characters, both "heroes" and "villains" very well before the story begins. I will often even sketch out a history for them even if it never appears in the story. That's just their starting point though. The events of the story will change them just as major life events can change most people. I didn't check any of the boxes though because the one thing I usually struggle with is names. I will sometimes change the names several times before I find one that feels right.

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Calendar Event Discussion / Re: Jim at Phoenix ComiCon - June 5-8
« on: May 01, 2014, 05:51:25 AM »
I bought my event pass tonight before the price went up so I guess I'm in for sure. The Sheraton ballroom sounds like a great idea. Now people can just line up to get good seats rather than waiting to get any seat at all. Now I have to figure whether to spend the money to park downtown or ride the lightrail in.

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Calendar Event Discussion / Re: Jim at Phoenix ComiCon - June 5-8
« on: April 29, 2014, 02:24:04 AM »
Oh, and for what it's worth I don't think I'll be dressed up either. There don't seem to be many roles for fat, balding middle aged men. I did threaten my daughter that I could wear a black wig and no shirt and claim to be Kull but she unfortunately has known me enough years not to be dismayed by my attempts at humor. She just laughs and says go for it.

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Calendar Event Discussion / Re: Jim at Phoenix ComiCon - June 5-8
« on: April 27, 2014, 03:51:33 PM »
The Barrio Cafe has a few dishes that I really love. The poblano pepper stuffed with chicken, spices, nuts and fruit (garlic, onions, pecans, apricots. I think there are a few more) is really good. I think it would be fun to meet other forum members. I often see them talking about it at other conventions. I assume we will be seeing most if not all of Jim's panels so maybe we could arrange to meet before or after one of them.

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I went to see Jim at the Poisoned Pen a few years ago when he was here. (Small Favor had just come out if I remember right.) It is a great store and I it was (and still is ) only the second time I had seen him live so it was a lot of fun but it's not a large building and it was standing room only. I don't know if the fact that he is also at Comicon will result in a smaller, more intimate crowd or if the fact that his popularity has steadily increased will result in an even larger crowd.

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