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The Dresden Files => DF Books => Topic started by: Zembo on May 21, 2017, 07:35:18 PM
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We know that Harry has an apartment, an office, bills, presumably dental appointments...but what about the rest? Does Morgan have a little home with a pet parakeet? How do other wizards earn money? Is using magic to earn money frowned upon, as in "I magically make these pebbles look like gems until I'm far away"? That's probably an unlikely scenario, but most of the wizards don't seem like they have money or a day job. Justin had a home and such, but anyone else? I tried to avoid spoilers as best I could. :)
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Well, Harry said in one of the earlier books that compound interest and a lifespan of over a few hundred years make you rich somehow.
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That's true, I'd forgotten that. I guess the Council probably has accountants? Can't see the Merlin walking into the local branch of a bank.
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If I recall correctly, wardens receive a stipend. If the wizards have a stipend, it makes sense that the council would also have a stipend. Then there's Ebenezer who has a (profitable?) farm to run.
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That's true, I'd forgotten that. I guess the Council probably has accountants? Can't see the Merlin walking into the local branch of a bank.
Wish I did accounting for the Council. I wonder if they adhere to the IFRS.
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Harry has mentioned that the council has a whole department dedicated to watching the councils financial affairs. That money can be used as a weapon amongst supernatural nations just as much as swords and guns.
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Bet they also have legal counsel, mostly for basic things like contracts and legal advice. Though it might also come in handy for those rare court dates for other matters.
It does seem like the council tends to be self-independant. But there has to be the occasional mortal on hire to perform services that the Council might have trouble with.
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Bet they also have legal counsel, mostly for basic things like contracts and legal advice. Though it might also come in handy for those rare court dates for other matters.
It does seem like the council tends to be self-independant. But there has to be the occasional mortal on hire to perform services that the Council might have trouble with.
Tami, while I agree in general, at the same time I wonder why?
We know LtW Keeps up his medical degrees.
Why not the same thing with a Wizard Lawyer?
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How would a wizard lawyer handle "acts of God" when dealing with multiple gods?
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How would a wizard lawyer handle "acts of God" when dealing with multiple gods?
Subpoena the gods?
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Subpoena the gods?
ROFL
Serve them a writ.
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Well, I seem to recall mention that Mab has passed the Bar, sooo...
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And don't many of the Wizards of the White Council have chevrons or the like on their stoles indicating various degrees and the like?
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And don't many of the Wizards of the White Council have chevrons or the like on their stoles indicating various degrees and the like?
Yup:
Everyone present was wearing his or her formal robes, all flowing black, with stoles of silk and satin in one of the various colors and patterns of trim that denoted status among the Council’s members. Blue stoles for members, red for those with a century of service, a braided silver cord for acknowledged master alchemists, a gold-stitched caduceus for master healers, a copper chevron near the collar for those with a doctorate in a scholarly discipline (some of the wizards had so many of them that they had stretched the fabric of the stole), an embroidered white Seal of Solomon for master exorcists and so on.
I had a plain blue stole with no ornaments whatsoever, though I’d been toying with the idea of embroidering “GED” on it in red, white, and blue thread. Molly was the only one in the room wearing a brown robe.
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So there are plenty of ways that wizards could earn a living separate from the magical.
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So there are plenty of ways that wizards could earn a living separate from the magical.
Yes, but that creates change, and old-school wizards hate change.
First of all, they couldn't stay in one place for too long, unles it's a secluded place or a multimillion people city because people would start to freak out. Second, getting a new identity is kinda hard, depending on where you live and how much are you willing to break the law. It also requires resources and contacts, mortal contacts.
Too much trouble, imo.
And that got me thinking, what date of birth is on Ebs drivers licence?
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Yes, but that creates change, and old-school wizards hate change.
First of all, they couldn't stay in one place for too long, unles it's a secluded place or a multimillion people city because people would start to freak out. Second, getting a new identity is kinda hard, depending on where you live and how much are you willing to break the law. It also requires resources and contacts, mortal contacts.
Too much trouble, imo.
And that got me thinking, what date of birth is on Ebs drivers licence?
Do we even know that he has one? He is old enough that he might have learned to drive before there were licenses...
/Ulfgeir
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Do we even know that he has one? He is old enough that he might have learned to drive before there were licenses...
/Ulfgeir
I think most states require them now, so he'd have to have a valid one with a fake year of birth. Either that, or he uses the Blackstaff to get away with mind wammies every time he gets a ticket.
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I think most states require them now, so he'd have to have a valid one with a fake year of birth. Either that, or he uses the Blackstaff to get away with mind wammies every time he gets a ticket.
That's what I was going for. Mundane stuff and wizards don't go well together.
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I think it's been mentioned a couple times (possibly by Harry) that there can be and are wizards who use their magic to make a crapload of money in ways that might be stretching legality or ethics in the mortal world. Buying and selling information, using magic to stack the odds at a casino, summoning demons for lottery numbers, etc.
So long as you're not breaking the Laws of Magic, the White Council doesn't care one bit what else you're doing with your magic. Harry's perpetual near poverty is mostly self-flagellation on his part. Case in point -- he could've made a mint signing on with Marcone.
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Yes, but that creates change, and old-school wizards hate change.
First of all, they couldn't stay in one place for too long, unles it's a secluded place or a multimillion people city because people would start to freak out. Second, getting a new identity is kinda hard, depending on where you live and how much are you willing to break the law. It also requires resources and contacts, mortal contacts.
Too much trouble, imo.
And that got me thinking, what date of birth is on Ebs drivers licence?
the Paperwork of Identities would likely only have become a significant issue in the last couple decades the bulk of bureaucracy went digital, only in the last few decades, at best. Prior to that it would take nothing to get a piece of paper dropped in the appropriate drawer, at which point Bob is (literally) your Uncle. I have assumed that is one of the common services that the Council provides for members, along with the financial corps and whatnot.
As far as the issue with identity, that isnt really that big of a deal most of the time. Martha Liberty lives with her family and the truth is known. Many professions are handled by correspondence, and have been for hundreds of years, without difficulty (this is historically a primary way women have participated in Science, for example). Even today professionals in many fields might operate under pseudonyms. And that's assuming they decide to do anything directly, rather than the more traditional (for Wizards) idea of having catspaws and proxy's.
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I think most states require them now, so he'd have to have a valid one with a fake year of birth. Either that, or he uses the Blackstaff to get away with mind wammies every time he gets a ticket.
You have to be stopped in order to get a ticket. If you drive under the speedlimit and keep your vehicle in good working order, there is no reason to be stopped.
With Eb driving a pre-WWII truck, that's in shining condition, I'd bet that he never gets stopped, just because his Truck is so nice.
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If Listens to Wind can go back to medical school on a regular basis, Im quite sure Eb can get a drivers license. I doubt that is the sort of new-fandangled thing that the average stuff-shirt on the Council has the patience to keep up with, and thus would be a needed service for the Council and their bureaucromancer corps to provide the membership.
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Well, Q, maybe.
Universities may or may not require a birth certificate.
ALL states require one for proof of age.
Forging one should not be an issue, and I'm willing to bet that is how they get around the system for now.
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Well, Q, maybe.
Universities may or may not require a birth certificate.
ALL states require one for proof of age.
Forging one should not be an issue, and I'm willing to bet that is how they get around the system for now.
I have to believe that an actual medical school would not require proof of identity. Of which said drivers license would be one. Im actually a bit curious which would be easier to fake: a local modern identity or a foreign immigrant under the guise of visiting professor or some such?
But to the broader point of the Council's ability to adapt to modern systems and documentation requirements, Im of two minds. On the one hand we're talking about something that has really only changed with the advent of digital records that they cannot access, so they'd have had centuries (ie the history of bureaucracy itself) to figure out how to slip a line on a page or a page in a drawer to make something "official". But they've kept pace with technology as much as their murphionic issues allow, and the wardens at least use modern police and military tactics (chicken or egg question there, tbh). On the other hand, the average WC member was born in a time when electricity was a novelty, and who have been cosmically barred from learning otherwise first-hand. I guess that's why I dont credit the average member to have the patience or access to learn about modern forgery, but the organization as a whole seems to have the focus, foresight, and resources to make up for it. That being said, I suspect that more and more of it is being handled by proxies, clued in Allies like the Ventatori, hired Lawyers of skill and discretion, Mortal-saavy NN denizens (I hear Mab is a Licensed Lawyer), or even simple bribery.
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I agree, Q.
Remember that Luccio enjoys reading about computers and their applications.
I have no doubt that the Wouncil has a cadre of Vanilla mortals doing all kinds of things with tech that they cannot.
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I dunno, guys. Maybe it's simpler in USA, but Europe is a buerocratic hellhole. For instance, for me to be able to use the seal/stamp/whateveryoucallit of the company I work for, I hed to get a letter of authorization from the company and had do sign some bogus paper and notarize it. Then I had to go to the ministry of public administration for them to put their own stamp on that piece of paper, so they knew and officially recognized my stamp. At all the locales visited, I had to provide my personal ID and a copy of my contract.
And that's just for one friggin thing. And for each and every one of them, there's a whole lot of paperwork.
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Oh, it's pretty bad here in the US too. And what's worse, it's different for each state and the Federal government.
Sometimes Cities and Counties get in the mix as well.
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Sometimes Cities and Counties get in the mix as well.
You're lucky :'(
And don't get me started on corruption in the even worse shithole that is the Balkan peninsula.
Edit: our corruption is worse/on a higher level than that of the black council or the wamps. They seem like sloppy amateurs to our professionals.
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I'm sure they get fake identities the old fashioned way, the same way vanilla mortals do now. They have to provide proof of identity to go to Univeristy in any country, and most of them have a lot of money to buy those kinds of things.
If regular humans are able to create fake identities for a lot of money, I'm sure wizards can too paying the same people. And they mention at one point that wizards don't have any limits on using magic to make money as long as they don't break the laws of magic. So they could do some outright unethical things in our eyes if they keep to the laws. Harry and Ebs talk about it at one point in Changes I think.
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I'm sure they get fake identities the old fashioned way, the same way vanilla mortals do now. They have to provide proof of identity to go to Univeristy in any country, and most of them have a lot of money to buy those kinds of things.
If regular humans are able to create fake identities for a lot of money, I'm sure wizards can too paying the same people. And they mention at one point that wizards don't have any limits on using magic to make money as long as they don't break the laws of magic. So they could do some outright unethical things in our eyes if they keep to the laws. Harry and Ebs talk about it at one point in Changes I think.
Another benefit is the longevity and long-term activities they can do. In other work of fiction (White Collar tv show) the topic of forgery and Fake Identities came up pretty often. The Holy Grail of Fake ID's came up once: an old-timer in the industry had a couple "perfect" ID's, because he'd literally been raising them like pets for years. They didnt need to fake records, they had actually filed for various life events real-time for these fake "people". They had bank accounts, tax history, the whole nine. It occurs to me that this could be a common way to go about it for an organization of Wizards; in RL you arent going to find people willing to devote the lifetime of effort it would take, but when the members of an organization live for multiple lifetimes, it becomes far more practical.
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I think it's been mentioned a couple times (possibly by Harry) that there can be and are wizards who use their magic to make a crapload of money in ways that might be stretching legality or ethics in the mortal world. Buying and selling information, using magic to stack the odds at a casino, summoning demons for lottery numbers, etc.
So long as you're not breaking the Laws of Magic, the White Council doesn't care one bit what else you're doing with your magic. Harry's perpetual near poverty is mostly self-flagellation on his part. Case in point -- he could've made a mint signing on with Marcone.
I'd really like to see that in Mirror Mirror - that would be really cool to see Harry and Marcone take over Chi-town and then go at each other.
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And don't many of the Wizards of the White Council have chevrons or the like on their stoles indicating various degrees and the like?
N ever heard that, but we do know that Listens to Wind actually goes back to Med school every so often to learn new medical techniques, and does in fact practice as a doctor on a reservation, I assume. We know Ebenezer is a farmer. I am sure they are all quite rich seeing how they are smart, long lived, and have magic powers. I am sure they live in m any different ways. Edinburugh is very luxurious, so the WC has a ton of cash.
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N ever heard that, but we do know that Listens to Wind actually goes back to Med school every so often to learn new medical techniques, and does in fact practice as a doctor on a reservation, I assume. We know Ebenezer is a farmer. I am sure they are all quite rich seeing how they are smart, long lived, and have magic powers. I am sure they live in m any different ways. Edinburugh is very luxurious, so the WC has a ton of cash.
Turn Coat, Chapter 47. The quote was posted not long ago in this very thread :P
And don't many of the Wizards of the White Council have chevrons or the like on their stoles indicating various degrees and the like?
Yup:
Everyone present was wearing his or her formal robes, all flowing black, with stoles of silk and satin in one of the various colors and patterns of trim that denoted status among the Council’s members. Blue stoles for members, red for those with a century of service, a braided silver cord for acknowledged master alchemists, a gold-stitched caduceus for master healers, a copper chevron near the collar for those with a doctorate in a scholarly discipline (some of the wizards had so many of them that they had stretched the fabric of the stole), an embroidered white Seal of Solomon for master exorcists and so on.
I had a plain blue stole with no ornaments whatsoever, though I’d been toying with the idea of embroidering “GED” on it in red, white, and blue thread. Molly was the only one in the room wearing a brown robe.
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Another benefit is the longevity and long-term activities they can do. In other work of fiction (White Collar tv show) the topic of forgery and Fake Identities came up pretty often. The Holy Grail of Fake ID's came up once: an old-timer in the industry had a couple "perfect" ID's, because he'd literally been raising them like pets for years. They didnt need to fake records, they had actually filed for various life events real-time for these fake "people". They had bank accounts, tax history, the whole nine. It occurs to me that this could be a common way to go about it for an organization of Wizards; in RL you arent going to find people willing to devote the lifetime of effort it would take, but when the members of an organization live for multiple lifetimes, it becomes far more practical.
Awesome. This has now entered my headcanon. Of course that's how they do it.
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I suppose some wizards change their first name occasionally. Most first names tell a lot about when you were born. I mean, who calls their kid Ebenezar these days?
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You know, another way someone like Listens-to-Wind could go back to school every decade or so is to get to know the dean and be honest with him.
Then the next Dean and so on.
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You know, another way someone like Listens-to-Wind could go back to school every decade or so is to get to know the dean and be honest with him.
Then the next Dean and so on.
Or pay for a building.
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Or pay for a building.
That would work too.
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It's the murphionic thing that I see as the biggest problem. Though even Harry was able to design something to suppress that, way back in DM; his only failed because Harry lacked sufficient emotional control, an area that LTW is supposedly particularly skilled at. So if anyone could design a charm to prevent an SC level wizard from exploding all the computers and sensitive medical equipment, it would be him. Or maybe him with the help from a master magical crafter like Mai.