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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Mrmdubois on February 01, 2013, 12:06:49 AM
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My idea is for something like:
Verbal Riposte:
On a successful Social Defense with Rapport the player may sacrifice his next action in order to turn that defense into an immediately successful attack.
This is basically just Riposte rewritten for Social combat.
Two questions, is this a legit stunt? Is it worth the bother?
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Social attacks typically lacking weapon values, I would suggest that this stunt very easily becomes quite a bit less valuable than the original.
If I were running your game, I'd call it 'legit', but underpowered and probably give it a small additional bonus (perhaps instead have an automatic maneuver, at user's option at time of use).
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Yeah, I kind of figured the lack of a weapon value would have an impact on its value. What would, I think, make this more viable is if it didn't eat up the next action.
So instead it would look like this.
Verbal Riposte:
On a successful Social Defense with Rapport the player may turn that defense into an immediately successful attack.
This is messing with action economy though so has to be handled carefully.
To get into further specifics of the character I'm building I was planning on giving him an enchanted item for Rapport which would create Aspects he could tag, so I already planned to have plenty of those.
On the other hand being able to place Aspects automatically on a defense without the aid of magic items might nicely complement the magic and make him not so dependent. Thoughts?
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Automatic maneuver (but not attack) without eating up the next action might be a nice compromise.
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Works for me.
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Is there a way to get a weapon rating on social attacks?
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With a cleverly-worded stunt, sure. Teflon Persona offers an armor rating, so why not?
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Hmm.
Cutting Remark (Rapport) You have a quick wit and a razor-sharp tongue, and aren't afraid to put them to use. Your Rapport attacks become Weapon:1, but utilizing this stunt reduces the potential for friendly interaction.
Subtle Horror (Intimidation) You are really, really scary. Like, scary enough that you can make people soil themselves and flee screaming in primal fear. Your Intimidation attacks become Weapon:1.
EDIT: Lowered weapon rating in accordance with suggestions.
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Is a Weapon Rating of two really appropriate? Seems like most stunts that add to damage potential only do so by one. Unless they're fueled by FP of course.
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Yeah, look at Lethal Weapon under Fists for one that adds 2. A flat Weapon 2 is a bit much, it needs to be more limited by circumstance than those two are.
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That stunt requires Martial Artist, though that may have been the limitation you were indicating.
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If you feel that makes more sense, i'll edit it. Social combat isn't my forte.
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That stunt requires Martial Artist, though that may have been the limitation you were indicating.
I was mostly talking about the 'doesn't work against armor' thing...but needing Martial Artist is also a factor, yeah.
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Lethal Weapon does not require Martial Artist. At least not in the print book.
It doesn't need to require Martial Artist either...it's not like it's tearing up the game's balance or anything.
I think that Cutting Remark and Subtle Horror are pretty dull. Not necessarily overpowered, but not interesting enough.
PS: Have you looked at the Homebrew Stunt list?
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Lethal Weapon does not require Martial Artist. At least not in the print book.
Huh. Teach me to respond without looking at the book. I was originally talking the armor restriction, though.
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Yeah, the armour restriction has always been enough for me.
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Actually Sanctaphrax the first place I turned was the custom stunt list. Lots of cool stuff there, but none of it seemed quite like it fit the bill for getting an edge in a social conflict the way I was imagining it. I don't have the best head for numbers though so feel free to make me some suggestions.
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Ah, okay.
I don't think I can tell you what would fit your character, but if you have a concept in mind I can try to write you something.
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He's a crafting ritualist but big on the social stuff too. I already took Teflon Persona and Reading the Surface so he's socially durable, and can get a read on people quickly. I'm trying to steer clear of Deceit, so Rapport is his main "attack" skill. I'd like to ramp it up a bit somehow or be good at turning the tables in a social situation. He's got political ambitions so I plan to grab Pointed Performance and probably other stunts that could be of help in this area later.
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I have no idea on mechanics (beyond just stealing Riposte's outright...which I think would be better than some others seem to believe), but thematically, calling it something like 'Witty Comeback' seems ideal. Being able to respond to people's social assaults with serious wit is both cool, clearly at least potentially Rapport, and fits the mechanics of something Riposte-like pretty well.
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I'm probably going to have to drop out of the discussion here. My understanding of how Riposte works is hazy at best, and my understanding of why it isn't useless even less so.
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Maybe something that lets you use Rapport to attack people's reputation would be good. Making people look like fools or bastards would be handy for a politician.
Mechanically, this'd be a simple extra trapping for Rapport.
PS: Riposte is useful because it gives you an automatic hit. If I've got a bunch of Speed and I defend at Legendary, a character with Riposte can still hit me easily if I throw an Average attack at them. Plus it lets you capitalize on a really good defence roll.
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I understand the automatic hit, I just don't understand why anyone would take it. If you've got the Weapons that thematically necessitate taking this, i'd imagine it would be better to actually attack instead of inflicting, at best barring Strength, 3 stress.
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At the beginning of this thread I used the exact wording for Riposte, just replaced Weapons with Rapport. So don't feel like you have to drop out.
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I understand the automatic hit, I just don't understand why anyone would take it. If you've got the Weapons that thematically necessitate taking this, i'd imagine it would be better to actually attack instead of inflicting, at best barring Strength, 3 stress.
Uh...I think you misunderstand how Riposte works. If someone attacks you at Good and you defend at Superb with a Weapon 3 sword, and you use Riposte, they take a 5 stress hit. Your defense roll becomes an attack and their attack their defense, with all that implies. Hence awesomeness, and why I think a social version with Rapport is fine.
Or at least that's how I've always read it, had it explained to me by the game's creators, and is strongly implied by the 'when your defense roll converts to an attack roll.' bit.
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Huh. I was apparently misreading the hell out of that, then. That's a pretty awesome stunt.
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Yeah, the way Deadman says it works is how I'd always thought it worked too. Someone mentioned the weapon rating thing so I thought I was wrong in my interpretation. Even if I'm not, I'd be interested in reading other people's ideas for cool Social stunts.
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Maybe something that lets you use Rapport to attack people's reputation would be good. Making people look like fools or bastards would be handy for a politician.
Mechanically, this'd be a simple extra trapping for Rapport.
PS: Riposte is useful because it gives you an automatic hit. If I've got a bunch of Speed and I defend at Legendary, a character with Riposte can still hit me easily if I throw an Average attack at them. Plus it lets you capitalize on a really good defence roll.
So basically like Contact's Rumormonger Stunt? Or is there a better way to reword that?