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Messages - Mira

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6841
DF Spoilers / Re: Will the Big Moment Come in Peace Talks?
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:01:36 PM »
Harry was not soul gazed by a majority of wizards during his trial because that would have brought a level of knowledge and understanding on both sides that was clearly not there in Summer Knight.

A soul gaze stays with you so you don’t want to look at warlocks more than necessary, it can give you some ugly memories that never disappear.

Yes to the second part, but the reason Harry wasn't soul gazed by the whole Council at his trial is the same reason Molly wasn't...  Protocol, the arresting warden does the soul gazing of the perp and testifies as to what he/she observed in that soul gaze.  Which, when you think about it opens another can of worms, interpretation is based on the mind and experience of the one doing the soul gazing.   

6842
DF Spoilers / Re: Love Potion, Huge Violation of 3rd Law?
« on: August 08, 2018, 11:55:28 AM »
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Being ignorant of the existence of date rape seems to be a willful choice in ignorance. SO DUDE! I don't need that kinda opinionated vitriol flung my way thanks... on a topic that's not supposed to relate to real world morality, that's directly the point of contention that Margret had with them fyi.

Thou flungist DUDE thine way first, so it was merely flung back at thou.....

Who says it has to be date rape?  Fantasy is merely a reflection of real world morality, why then have the Seven Laws in the first place?  Mainly to keep those with magical powers from taking unfair advantage of vanilla humanity...   What was the Korean kid and Molly guilty of?  Messing over another wizard?  No, screwing with the minds of vulnerable vanilla humans...  Use of magic to kill is seen as a perversion of magic, seems to be a rather moral view of it to me...  Someone is just as dead if the means is with a gun or a fire spell..
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*you'll find it quite unprovable that wizards are not related to or capable of becoming the fae. Indeed Molly's latent heritage and magical ability coincide with the possibility.

That wasn't the point, the point being the fae are not subject to wizard law...  Molly may be the exception because she is a wizard and now is Winter Lady... However I doubt that anyone on the Council will test that out least they piss off the whole of the fae world by severing her lovely head from her body for breaking the 3rd Law..
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Since when does responsibility matter to the laws?  Harry could go on a raping spree and the White Council wouldn't care unless he violated the laws which the potions don't.

The laws aren't about morality. 

I'd argue that they would if he used magic in any way to do his raping..  Guns don't kill people, people using guns do argument applies here I believe...  Making a love potion isn't a violation of the
Law, but perhaps using one to alter another's mind without permission may be...

6843
DF Spoilers / Re: Love Potion, Huge Violation of 3rd Law?
« on: August 08, 2018, 04:01:10 AM »
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DUDE, hold up, cause I have a woj from FB about not knowing the consequences of your choices is a fact of life. Note that the fae enchant food all the time too...

But wizards are not the Fae, are they?  And DUDE, this smacks of blaming the victim.. I  don't think this is what Jim meant or would apply to someone unknowingly being drugged and raped..
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    Jim Butcher  Yeah, but all your choices count, man. Not just the ones where someone says, "Are you absolutely sure about your answer."

    Making a choice is stating who you are. Unequivocally. You can talk as much as you want about whatever goodness you want--your actions are what matter. Those choices, in some cases to /take lives/, weren't subconscious.

    Molly said, "I'm in line with Winter." A BUNCH of times. And making statements like that add up--not because you're initialing a point on a contract for a lawyer, but because you are /changing yourself/ by making choices like that.

    Creating life, ending life. Those are the heaviest hitting choices, the ones that truly matter, the ones that are irrevocable.

    Choosing not to be self-aware enough to own what you're doing is a choice as well. One Molly didn't make. She knew about bargains. She knew the score. She didn't know how deep was the water she was getting into, but she ran and jumped off the cliff.
While true, Molly made choices, she had some idea of what they were, but she chose not to think that there would be consequences down the road for accepting Lea's "training.."  Not the same at all as accepting a drink because you are thirsty or to be sociable without the anticipation that it might be drugged and you could end up having sex against your will.. Especially if you have no clue that the person you are with is capable of drugging that drink..  It isn't the same as drinking to the point of drunkenness, that is a choice..  But even the consequences of that are not totally the victim's fault in the eyes of the law..   

But let's go back to Molly's original choice, to go into the minds of her friends to "help" them stop their addiction...  Her friends did chose to take drugs to the point of doing physical harm to themselves.. However that did not acquit Molly from her choice to break the Law by entering their minds without their permission to alter them.  Her friend have to be responsible for their original choices, but so does Molly..

Yes, while it is a choice to accept a drink or to drink from a glass or cup handed to you, your responsibility... That doesn't get the one who drugged the drink in the first place to have sex against the other person's will off the hook in terms of responsibility.


6844
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court WAG
« on: August 07, 2018, 08:48:51 PM »
Well, yeah.  To start with she was smarter than her daddy, which is why she is where she is and why he is currently a sock puppet.  To continue, Harry took himself off the board.  Short sighted on his part if I do say so.  Makes you want to scream, WHAT WAS HE THINKING?

Whamps, I love it. ;D

  But she would still be his sock puppet if Harry hadn't told her about what his mother's death curse did to her daddy..

6845
DF Spoilers / Re: Love Potion, Huge Violation of 3rd Law?
« on: August 07, 2018, 08:47:03 PM »
Doesn't the law against transformation also specifically mention that you can't transform someone against their will?  So obviously consent makes a difference in more situations than just mental magic.

  Well, if a person unknowingly drinks a love potion, that is transforming someone against their will.  One may consent or accept a drink, but would one consent if one knew there was something in it to make them do what he or she didn't want to do?

6846
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court WAG
« on: August 07, 2018, 02:27:16 PM »
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Do you think eating Madeline, demon & all, made Lara more powerful? It seems to me like she significantly upped her game after TC. I believe Ebenzer is going to pay somehow for treating her like a rag doll on the island. At the end of Changes, she’s able to divert resources of the US Navy into going to Chichen Itza. By Ghost Story, she & Marcone are the 2 most powerful people in Chicago.

I don't as far as the demon goes, but killing Madeline would go a long way of making her more powerful in the minds of the rest of the clan. 

6847
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court WAG
« on: August 06, 2018, 08:07:14 PM »
Lara is definitively eating from her father right now, it is the best way to make sure of his weakness.

She was able to do it once she found out about his physical weakness as a result of not getting nourishment from his demon due to Margaret's death.  Before she found out though she didn't even try.

6848
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court WAG
« on: August 06, 2018, 04:44:23 PM »


    I think there are more factors than just the strength of the demon involved.  I think any of the White Court is capable of cannibalizing each other on a one on one fight.  I think Lord Raith understood this, that is why he killed off his male children in fear that they might challenge him someday.  His daughters he dominated sexually, feeding upon them from the moment they reached puberty with fully engaged demons. 

6849
DF Spoilers / Re: Will the Big Moment Come in Peace Talks?
« on: August 05, 2018, 04:59:44 AM »
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As for the deaths at Biancas, I imagine that it's chalked up to them not knowing who, if anyone, actually was killed by the fire vs already dead.  Though given the grudge some folks held against him, you'd think they'd try a bit harder to look into it.

   Harry did feel guilt that he actions might have killed some of those at the party.. However it was Michael I believe that said, 1] as you say  no way of knowing who may have died from Harry's fire rant since most were dead or about to die in any case.. 2] It was never Harry intent to kill the young people at the party, if any died by fire it was indirect consequences not as actual targets of Harry's spell.  Which brings up the question, yes, killing with magic breaks the First Law... But one does that go for those who happen to die because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and not the target of the actual spell?

6850
DF Spoilers / Re: Will the Big Moment Come in Peace Talks?
« on: August 04, 2018, 07:56:11 PM »
I doubt even Harry's enemies on the Council would want to hash out their problems with him during PT. The Council would hate showing disunity or weakness in front of the assembled who's-who of the Accords powers even more than they hate Harry. With all the other powers around, it's a better opportunity for trying to manipulate Harry into a duel with someone who overpowers him. But taking him out in-house is better done later and not in front of so many witnesses.

   From what Rashid implied it will be more important than  a mere hashing out of differences, or who hates or doesn't hate Harry..   He implied that it will be more of a life or death situation with repercussions that go way beyond Harry's life or the future of the Council.

6851
DF Spoilers / Re: Love Potion, Huge Violation of 3rd Law?
« on: August 04, 2018, 11:24:12 AM »
How old are you? As a young boy I could have wild monkey sex any time I wanted but only with myself. If you get older and your body deserts you in small ways and pressure builds up with job and family and you get tired sooner and not enough sleep anyway.

There is a huge market in viagra. If your partner tells you not now it can just mean that she is too stressed, too tired or emotionally empty after a long day at work. You would both like wild monkey sex but it is just not possible.

Now Harry makes that nice potion.

Really, Ill doers are ill deemers.

Viagra isn't a drug slipped on you unawares usually..  Let's not forget that Harry gave the love potion to Susan by accident under pressure of the attack..    If the portion is used like Viagra merely to enhance or to make sex possible voluntarily, that is one thing... But if it is slipped to someone to have sex when that person doesn't want it by breaking down their will, that is rape.   

6852
DF Spoilers / Re: Will the Big Moment Come in Peace Talks?
« on: August 03, 2018, 08:17:15 PM »


The Council isn't going to touch Molly as long as she is the Winter Lady... No way are they about to piss off Mab and start a war with the Winter Court.

6853
DF Spoilers / Will the Big Moment Come in Peace Talks?
« on: August 02, 2018, 02:44:22 PM »


    As I said, find it hard to get excited about Mirror Mirror, that is at least one book off, plus x amount of short stories...  I am much more interested in the next book, in particular what Rashid said to Harry on the dock on Demonreach in Turn Coat.. Mainly that his hour to confront the Senior Council was not over Morgan..  He implied that in some time in the future he would confront the Senior Council, but didn't elaborate....  My question is will this happen in Peace Talks?  But if you insist,it could happen in Mirror Mirror... Our universe Harry goes before the other universe Senior Council and tells them they have to kill his evil twin... All the while they are trying to kill him because he violated the Laws by showing up in the first place.

6854
DF Spoilers / Re: Will Harry be the big bad in Mirror Mirror?
« on: August 02, 2018, 02:32:35 PM »
  I think the big question isn't how bad etc Harry is or gets, but will he be aware that he is?   If he isn't how does he discover that he is?  Or in the biggest twist in history, he remains the villain for the rest of the series.... 

In the original Star Trek story, yes, there were nasty mirrors for Kirk and Company, but the Kirk and Company we know and love were wandering around in the parallel  Enterprise, shocked but aware and trying to fix things and get back to their own universe..   Meanwhile Spock and Company also became aware rather quickly that the Kirk and Company that showed up were not the good guys we know and love, locked them up and began to figure out a way to send them back and get their old Captain and Company back...

Sooooo.....  Based on that, since the story is told in first person, we won't suddenly have Harry run amuck as the new Kemmler...   He won't think he is doing anything wrong, and there won't be anyone to tell him that this isn't him... Because in their world, big bad Harry is normal!  I think it will go down like the original Trek,  Harry shows up in the mirror world and discovers big bad Harry and either tries to change him or kill him... Or he finds someone like Spock with integrity  in both worlds to kill him, most likely this will be Murphy, Michael, or Eb... 

So one can speculate, but as I said, years off, find it hard to get excited, that is an opinion and not stopping anyone else who wants to speculate... 

6855
DF Spoilers / Re: Will Harry be the big bad in Mirror Mirror?
« on: August 02, 2018, 10:41:01 AM »
I think the transition between books 16 and 17 will be similar to the transition between books 12 and 13.

Perhaps but that is years away...

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