ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Buscadera on October 27, 2010, 09:43:22 PM
-
I'm writing up a character for a Submerged game set in Florida and I was wanted to make a mostly-mortal explorer who had stumbled into the Fountain of Youth. Wizard's Constitution seems to handle some aspects pretty well (long life, eventual wound recovery, etc.) but there are certain things I don't think it covers everything I'm looking for so I created this power. It's mostly a mashup of Living Dead and Wizard's Constitution. Does it look balanced?
Eternal Life [-1]
Total Recovery - You’re able to recover from physical harm that would leave a normal person permanently damaged. You can recover totally from any consequence—excluding extreme physical ones—with no other excuse besides time; simply waiting long enough will eventually heal you completely. (Many wizards use this ability to avoid hospitals, where their tendency to disrupt technology can put others in serious danger.)
Fast Recovery - Out of combat, you may recover from physical consequences as if they were one level lower in severity. So, you recover from moderate consequences as though they were mild, etc. Consequences reduced below mild are always removed by the beginning of a subsequent scene.
Long Life - As a side-effect of your improved ability to recover from injury, your lifespan is significantly extended. In game terms this
will rarely have relevance, but it’s why you can talk at length about the events of the American Civil War and, depending on when you became immortal, you may be able to go back even further than that.
Death is a Nuisance - Unless wholly destroyed or killed by special means, you’ll continue to live on afterwards. No “death” result is ever permanent unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type).
Does it need anything else or is it overpowered?
-
Why not just take inhuman recovery with a +1 catch?
-
My only thought is that -1 seems rather low for that sort of recovery, and if it's gained from the fountain of youth you may want to use it as a catch of some sort
-
That's overpowered.
1) I don't see any catch on the recovery part. While it only is half as effective as inhuman recovery, the fact that it doesn't have a catch would increase its cost. So this is a strong +1, maybea +2 on its own.
2) Living Dead, for a -1 refresh, offers the Death is Nuisance part. However, you are also "unhealable" meaning you can't recover from consequences without supernatural help, and you are obviously dead or repulsive, meaning that you take a -2 to most social skills. And your ability has that without any penalties. This is a strong +2 on its own.
So, +4 refresh for this ability. I mean, barring special circumstances, not only you can't die but you heal faster too.
-
Feels overpowered to me, but honestly it would depend on the type of game.
A game that is all about intrigue and espionage, where death is a huge deal and not a casual event? Seems fine to me.
On the other hand, if you are playing a high lethality game designed with victory being simple survival, then I would say it is way under-costed.
-
So if I just ditched the Fast Recovery part, I'd be okay? At that point it's just Wizard's Constitution plus Death is a Nuisance from Living Dead. I assumed the -1 from Living Dead would cover the price of the whole.
Would bumping it up to -2 make it work? It just seems that paying -2 for what is essentially a -0 and a -1 ability feels a bit off.
-
Pretty sure this is one of those cases of something "being greater than the sum of its parts"
-
Living Dead is tough to decompose. It basically consists of one "power" ("Death is a Nuisance"), one "catch" ("Corpse Body") and one mixed power/catch ("Dude! You're Dead!"). Together, they have a net cost of [-1]. But you'd like to take just the beneficial part, which means you need to figure out how much that part costs.
Take a look at "Dude! You're Dead!" You get a +1 to Intimidation, but a -1 to all other social skills (Contacts, Deceit, Empathy, Performance, Presence, and Rapport). That's the equivalent of at least five (six negative minus one positive) 'negative' stunts, if you treat a "+1 to all uses of a skill" as a reasonable stunt, which is questionable.
"Corpse Body" is also a significant flaw. Someone kicks your shin and you now have a "Sore Shin" that will last until you find a way to fix it, and short of some sort of magical reconstruction, its not clear how to accomplish that.
Based on the flaws combined into the power, I'd say that "Death is a Nuisance" is much more than a minor ability.
That said, there's a rather cheap way to kinda-sorta get this sort of ability, if your GM is ok with it. First, take your choice of Wizard's Constitution [-0] or Inhuman Recovery [-2]. Then give yourself an aspect along the lines of "I'm not dead yet!" or "Just a flesh wound!" or, better yet, High Concept that refers to your repeated failure to stay dead. Then, any time you are taken out by something that should kill you (but could conceivably fail to), you can now invoke your aspect to narrate your way out of dying. This would require that (a) your GM is ok with that use of an aspect, and (b) that you can come up with a reasonable way to survive. That means it works well for the times when you are peppered with a hail of gunfire, throwing you over the side of the bridge into the river (luckily the bullets missed vital organs for the most part, and you managed to get caught on a branch further downstream). It doesn't work so well when the local Warden lops off your head 'on screen'. Note that Fate points are less of an issue, since you'd generally be gaining a couple just by being taken out.
This is still very powerful, which is why I mention several times that you'd need to get GM buy-in.
-
This sort of thing has been done before. Here's one example: http://www.vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/SamplePowers/Deathless.html (http://www.vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/SamplePowers/Deathless.html)
-
I really think people are overreacting with how supposedly undercosted this is supposed to be.
Its not as good as everyone seems to be thinking imo, and to me its worth -1 refresh easily no more.
-
This really is a consult your GM power. Were I the GM I think I wouldn't have a single issue with Death is a nuisance but with the recovery I might add a little cost or ask you to work it out a bit. But clearly others would have an issue with it, so it might be an individual thing.
-
Question: is it better or worse than inhuman recovery? If it were worse (less useful) then I'd accept the -1 refresh cost.
However, it is significantly more useful. So it should cost more than inhuman recovery.
-
In what way is this significantly more useful than inhuman recovery?
-
In that you can enter a physical fight fight with any opponent, and unless you are disposed off in one specific way -say, sunlight or faith powers if you're undead- you don't really die. And as soon as the fight is "over" and your enemies think they've won, you just rise and shoot/bite them in the back.
In effect, losing a physical fight is not an actual loss for you unless the other guys know that you are immortal and do something to prevent you from attacking again.
-
In effect, losing a physical fight is not an actual loss for you unless the other guys know that you are immortal and do something to prevent you from attacking again.
I see where you're coming from. However, I don't think that's the case. You could easily have a taken out result that is as good as dead, something like blown into so many pieces it will take 100 years to collect yourself. Death doesn't happen that often. Inhuman recovery's shrug it off would come into play much more often, making it a more powerful power.
-
Based on all of this talk, I think the power would be reasonable if I removed the Fast Recovery from Inhuman Recovery. So with that gone, I think the power would work as:
Eternal Life [-1]
Total Recovery - You’re able to recover from physical harm that would leave a normal person permanently damaged. You can recover totally from any consequence—excluding extreme physical ones—with no other excuse besides time; simply waiting long enough will eventually heal you completely. (Many wizards use this ability to avoid hospitals, where their tendency to disrupt technology can put others in serious danger.)
Immortal - As a side-effect of your improved ability to recover from injury, your lifespan is extended indefinitely. In game terms this
will rarely have relevance, but it’s why you can talk at length about the events of the American Civil War and, depending on when you became immortal, you may be able to go back even further than that.
Death is a Nuisance - Unless wholly destroyed or killed by special means, you’ll continue to live on afterward. No “death” result is ever permanent unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type).
-
Ok, the starting points for this power are:
Wizard's Constitution [-0]
Description: You are a wizard, or are like a wizard—incredibly long lived for a human, able to recover from injuries just a little better than the next guy.
Note: This ability is replaced by any Inhuman or better Recovery or Toughness ability, if any such abilities are taken. In terms of game effects, the uses of this ability are so minor that they’re really almost cosmetic; hence the zero cost.
Skills Affected: Endurance.
Effects:
Total Recovery. You’re able to recover from physical harm that would leave a normal person permanently damaged. You can recover totally from any consequence—excluding extreme physical ones—with no other excuse besides time; simply waiting long enough will eventually heal you completely. (Many wizards use this ability to avoid hospitals, where their tendency to disrupt technology can put others in serious danger.)
Long Life. As a side-effect of your improved ability to recover from injury, your lifespan is significantly extended. In game terms this will rarely have relevance, but it’s why the Senior Council of the White Council of wizards can talk at length about the events of the American Civil War (many of them were there) and several can go back even further than that.
Living Dead [–1]
Description: You’re dead, but you keep walking around. It’s kind of gross.
Musts: You’ve got to be dead.
Effects:
Corpse Body. Your body is a corpse. This means that you cannot recover from consequences with time, because your body does not regenerate. Any physical consequences you suffer are permanent until you take some kind of effort to remove them (know any good taxidermists?) or seek supernatural assistance to reconstruct your body.
Death is a Nuisance. Unless wholly destroyed or killed by special means, you’re already dead, and that doesn’t seem to have fazed you much. No “death” result is ever permanent unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type).
Dude! You’re Dead! And that’s pretty scary to a lot of people. When dealing with folks unaccustomed to the walking dead (and that’s most “regular” people), gain a +1 on Intimidation. The downside? Take a –1 penalty on nearly every other social skill (except Deceit). For every level of physical consequence you’ve sustained, increase the penalty/bonus by –1/+1. That said, the effect is short-lived with any one target—as they become accustomed to a reality where the dead walk, they eventually become inured to it as an additional reason to be terrified.
I suggest splitting the proposed new power into two parts. In other words,
Unaging [-0]
Description: You are practically immortal. Although you may still die by violence, you do not age past your prime and can eventually recover from almost any injury that does not kill you.
Note: This ability is replaced by any Inhuman or better Recovery or Toughness ability, if any such abilities are taken. In terms of game effects, the uses of this ability are so minor that they’re really almost cosmetic; hence the zero cost.
Skills Affected: Endurance.
Effects:
Total Recovery. You’re able to recover from physical harm that would leave a normal person permanently damaged. You can recover totally from any consequence—excluding extreme physical ones—with no other excuse besides time; simply waiting long enough will eventually heal you completely. (Many wizards use this ability to avoid hospitals, where their tendency to disrupt technology can put others in serious danger.)
Long Life. As a side-effect of your improved ability to recover from injury, your lifespan is practically unlimited. In game terms this will rarely have relevance, but you could easily have witnessed the events of the American Civil War, the fall of the Roman Empire, or Alexander's conquest of the Persian Empire.
Despite being 'more powerful' than Wizard's Constitution, the improvements are really little more than flavor text. Despite the character's potential lengthy life, the character's capabilities are still limited by skills on the character sheet. For example, the character's memories of ancient events will still be governed by Scholarship, with failed rolls possibly indicating that events were forgotten over the centuries, even if the character was there to see the events unfold.
The second part of the power is an upgraded version of Living Dead:
Undying [-?]
Description: As opposed to the living dead who stubbornly continue to walk around as their dead bodies rot, your body refuses to die.
Musts: You must have a Recovery power, including Wizard's Constitution, Unaging, or Inhuman Recovery (or better).
Effects:
That which does not kill me ... well, does not kill me. Unless wholly destroyed or killed by special means, you remain alive. Wounds stop bleeding on their own accord regardless of severity, organs continue functioning despite damage. You never suffer a “death” result unless special means are used. The GM determines what special means are sufficient to kill you, which will generally include total destruction of your body, removal of your head, cranial evacuation, etc.
Note that this power does not assist in recovery in any way. If your arm is hacked off, you will not bleed to death, but you will still suffer the Consequence(s) inflicted, and your arm will not 'grow back'.
The second power is a wildcard. It is like Living Dead, but clearly more powerful in that (1) you generally don't suffer even the nuissance of death (this is largely narrative in nature), (2) it allows normal recover and/or Recovery powers to work (which Living Dead does not), and (3) carries no penalties to social skills. Of these, the first is minor, and potentially carries both advantages and disadvantages (ie, if the guy who 'killed' you checks, he'll notice that you're still breathing and your heart is still beating). The other two are more significant, and it's hard justify charging less that two refresh for them. For example, difference between the 'normal' recovery of Wizards and the faster recovery of those with Inhuman Recovery is two refresh, then it seems reasonable that the difference between 'no recovery at all' and 'normal recover' is at least one refresh or more. Likewise, have a net penalty to five social skills can't possibly be a one refresh effect.
So at the very minimum, I see this as a [-3] power -- the original [-1] of Living Dead, plus at least one for each of the two improvements.
-
In that you can enter a physical fight fight with any opponent, and unless you are disposed off in one specific way -say, sunlight or faith powers if you're undead- you don't really die. And as soon as the fight is "over" and your enemies think they've won, you just rise and shoot/bite them in the back.
In effect, losing a physical fight is not an actual loss for you unless the other guys know that you are immortal and do something to prevent you from attacking again.
Taken out means taken out, regardless of how it's done. Even with Death is a nuisance someone can't just stand up immediately after being taken out because they are unable to continue regardless of their abilities.