ParanetOnline
McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: meg_evonne on April 23, 2014, 09:21:01 PM
-
Every writer is different. Every manuscript is different. Things come at us at odd times and in weird ways.
Yes, I suspect we each have our preferred methods. That's what this is. I'm curious how everyone answers.
-
I'm not published, so I'm probably a bad example to follow. I'm writing my first book, and I didn't even write out an outline before starting. I had a vague idea of some plot points I wanted to hit, and just started writing. almost everything I've written has evolved naturally as I've written. I later tried to write an outline for future plot points to include, but didn't keep up with it.
my characters have all formed out of necessity. I need someone to teach, harass, support, or tickle the main character, and then they appear. I had an idea for the bad guys, and they ended up being the goods guys. I developed another lead bad guy, and killed him in the first act, as my story changed.
my story might be crap, and I've got a ton of editing to do. since people changed as I developed them, I have to go back and change some of their dialog or descriptions. I have to add scenes that develop who they are, rather than having already has that in mind because they were last minute ideas.
I recommend starting with a short story or novella, to help you flesh out your process. it's going to take me almost as long to edit the second draft as it took me to write the first, and I'm not even done yet.
-
I would call myself 80% of the way towards having them fleshed out and solid before I start, but I do expect to learn new things about them with every chapter.
-
The level of character development needed before you start often depends on the plot and storyline. Usually at minimum, you have to have enough to justify the character's basic motivation. I know one author who includes things like birth order to create the personality they need for a characters motivation. I've done characters where their history is a big part of the story and what motivates them so I've had to create a lot of detail before even starting an outline. Other projects have required little to no background simply because it wasn't a motivating factor or pertinent to the story.
-
I voted #1 as that's my principal M.O. but I do a lot of tweaking in rewrites, especially to the supporting cast.
-
I'm not published, so I'm probably a bad example to follow. I'm writing my first book, and I didn't even write out an outline before starting.
Ha! What does that have to do with anything? :-)
Remember the movie Drive? It's based on a book written by an author I heard at DNRS. His style scared the you know what out of me. Literally his current WiP at the time was an MC who finds bodies in a mine shaft. He had no idea where it was going. More crazy for me? He didn't really care. He figures if you aren't scared to death writing and not sure where the plot and characters are going, your reader will be just as terrified reading it.
Me and my little excel sheets, developed after years of work and study and weaned from suchuncontrolled writing, couldn't even grasp the concept. Now, even farther along my craft learning curve, I can understand the tension that kind of relationship with your writing can offer. It terrifies me still, but I can see the day and if I have the write concept for it, that i'll try another seat of the pants writing experiment. TRUST your method, right?
I would call myself 80% of the way towards having them fleshed out and solid before I start, but I do expect to learn new things about them with every chapter.
And wow! i figured you for it all being planned out. This was cool to learn!
.... I know one author who includes things like birth order to create the personality they need for a characters motivation.
I remember at a conference where a mystery writer insisted that to be successful (and she was) that an author needed to use the Briggs Meyer Personality Test (or it was something similar) so the characters would be real and their interactions would be real. Thankfully, I must get that kinda organically, but since she said it, I am more conscious that I'm consistent with my character's personalities.
I voted #1 as that's my principal M.O. but I do a lot of tweaking in rewrites, especially to the supporting cast.
You're writing in a series right? I can imagine that the supporting cast does take on different characteristics by necessity. How about your MCs? Have they taken you on surprising paths that enriched the manuscript?
-
I had to Google the Briggs-Meyer test but I promptly performed it on one of my protagonists. I have a feeling he'd laugh hysterically if he could see the career choices it picked for him (Nurse, caterer, elementary school teacher...really? He's a private detective.)
Both of my protagonists have taken some interesting turns, personality-wise, though they don't really surprise me so much as feel right. And a lot of what I've discovered about them is backstory that will never make its way onto paper, but helps to inform what they have become.
-
Some schools of thought suggest questionnaires.
Writingclasses Questionnaire (http://www.writingclasses.com/InformationPages/index.php/PageID/106)
The one suggest at the above site, seemed to have a lot of pointless questions that wouldn't often come into play but I could see some writings generating a set of questions that would cover what they need for a specific story.
-
I like to know my main characters, both "heroes" and "villains" very well before the story begins. I will often even sketch out a history for them even if it never appears in the story. That's just their starting point though. The events of the story will change them just as major life events can change most people. I didn't check any of the boxes though because the one thing I usually struggle with is names. I will sometimes change the names several times before I find one that feels right.
-
. . . . I didn't check any of the boxes though because the one thing I usually struggle with is names. I will sometimes change the names several times before I find one that feels right.
Me too Oz.
And what a riot Liz!
Also, I am pleased to announce, and Shecky will probably agree, that it's about time I figured out there is a difference between "..." and "...." Who'd a thunk?
-
I'm one of those guys where everything flows from character. Same plot and/or MacGuffin with different characters gives you completely different stories. If it doesn't, your plot is pushing your characters, not the other way around.
A runaway train is a plot. Watching someone run away from a runaway train is a story. (Or try to stop it, drive it, eat it, turn it into a poodle.) So when I'm stuck writing a scene, or can't figure out how to move the plot forward, I tie someone's shoelaces together (figuratively). Watching them figure it out while the train keeps coming usually provides what the story needs, or what they needed.
Not that plot's not important, clearly. But people relate to other people, and that's characters.
That said, I know I'm ready to write when a) I know the final scene/reveal; and b) I've walked around with my characters long enough that I can hold conversations with them, out loud. (My family's quite used to it, bless them.) Literally acting out scenes in character while I walk around the house or whatever, and the characters say something that reveals something to me I hadn't considered that most always drives the plot forward in a way I hadn't imagined, that's better than what I'd planned. That's when I know the coffee's ready. ;)
-
I'm one of those guys where everything flows from character. Same plot and/or MacGuffin with different characters gives you completely different stories. If it doesn't, your plot is pushing your characters, not the other way around.
That's entirely true, but plot pushing character is not inherently a problem. Look at any number of Hitchcock films, for example, where the plot is basically "Unfortunate random guy falls into scheme of which he knows nothing, and has to run around staying one step ahead of danger while figuring out what is going on"; that's a character literally being pushed in ways he has no desire to go by the plot.
A runaway train is a plot. Watching someone run away from a runaway train is a story.
I'd say, a story is a bunch of events happening in order. A plot is a bunch of events happening in order because one causes another that causes another.
-
I didn't check any of the boxes though because the one thing I usually struggle with is names. I will sometimes change the names several times before I find one that feels right.
Names are an opportunity; they allow you to imply things about background and social context. The only place I really struggle with them is when I bump into test readers who read by word shape, and who come back saying things like "It's easy to read 'Dumitrov' as 'Dumbledore' so maybe this guy's first name could start with a letter other than A?" because that is entirely not natural to me (because 'Dumitrov' does not sound in the least like 'Dumbledore' at least to me).
-
Names are an opportunity; they allow you to imply things about background and social context.
I think this is one of the reasons that I struggle. I want the names to say something and sometimes I feel like they are not saying what I want them to.
-
I think this is one of the reasons that I struggle. I want the names to say something and sometimes I feel like they are not saying what I want them to.
What sort of setting are you writing in ?
-
Sorry for the delay in replying but my nephew got married over the weekend and I haven't done much on the board. The setting is modern suburban although much of the story will take place elsewhere in the old cyclone, rabbit hole, wardrobe type shift.
-
Sorry for the delay in replying but my nephew got married over the weekend and I haven't done much on the board. The setting is modern suburban although much of the story will take place elsewhere in the old cyclone, rabbit hole, wardrobe type shift.
Modern suburban, I would think thinking about income level and social background and so forth should be a good handle on plausible names. Baby name books and websites are useful for this, particularly the sort of ones that say "don't call your kid X, it sounds tacky" because that will tell you how a given name was perceived at a given time.
-
Names are an opportunity; they allow you to imply things about background and social context. The only place I really struggle with them is when I bump into test readers who read by word shape, and who come back saying things like "It's easy to read 'Dumitrov' as 'Dumbledore' so maybe this guy's first name could start with a letter other than A?" because that is entirely not natural to me (because 'Dumitrov' does not sound in the least like 'Dumbledore' at least to me).
I love this comment. And you and OZ are so right. Still, I am a person who doesn't see the endings of words. (You may have noticed. Nothing diagnosed or anything, but it's obvious if I'm tired and reading or typing. I just don't see the endings at those times. If it's close--my mind makes the leap.) Therefore going with something different in the alphabet is something I will always seek out. It just makes it easier for me to read. Also, I'm in young adult category, so the encouragement is for readers like me, or far worse, and the name variation helps them too.
It is also something that the awesome Jill Santopolo (young adult book editor) pushed in her novel classes. It was something the editors at her house drilled into them--so I comply.
-
We need a button for "All of the above." Seriously... I'll often think I have the character fleshed out, locked down tight and solid. But as I write the character's dialogue, sometimes they'll spin off in a different direction. Not just in terms of personality, but even in physical description. For example, First Rider Kadien Jess started out like
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u330/paynesgrey2000/samelliot_zpsc4215fe3.jpg)
As he got more lines, I kept hearing Michael Clarke Duncan reading them and my mental image shifted to
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u330/paynesgrey2000/michaelclarkeduncan_zps8915b91d.jpg)
By the time the first draft was complete, Kadien Jess had settled into
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u330/paynesgrey2000/Idris-Elba_zps0d10cd0d.jpg)
Now, his basic personality and role in the story didn't change, but the voice and the mental image that came with it evolved through the course of the books.
Other characters have stayed exactly the way I first envisioned them; they haven't changed in the slightest.
Zeddie has pretty much always been
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u330/paynesgrey2000/zeddie4march_zpsf39e59aa.jpg) (http://s516.photobucket.com/user/paynesgrey2000/media/zeddie4march_zpsf39e59aa.jpg.html)
and since the character concept was conceived, Shaifennen Roehe's always been
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u330/paynesgrey2000/Image002_zps62f01a1e.jpg) (http://s516.photobucket.com/user/paynesgrey2000/media/Image002_zps62f01a1e.jpg.html)
Pretty distinctive look and feel for each of those characters, but some of them have evolved and morphed from something so far from the original mental image that physically they have no resemblance to the original, and while retaining the core personality, the mannerisms and voice have changed. Others are solid and concrete. About the only change Shaifennen has seen is the thing she does with her hair. (She thinks it makes her less short.)
I find it all quite confusing.
-
Confusing, but beautifully described Paynesgrey. Thank you for sharing. I feel like cutting and pasting your comments and your photo/drawings into a learning file. You could teach a workshop session on this and I'd come.
Why? Because it rings so true! Thank you for taking the time to share. And you perked my interest to read your characters myself! The morphing of your first character was like a mind-blowing growth that was gorgeous and you let us see it. Really cool.
-
I tweaked the layout a little to make it easier to read... Not sure I'm fit to teach a workshop, just pointing out how my own process varies. My characters are the boss of me. They even talk their way out of the Red Shirt by convincing me they have great stand-alone stories of their own, and that *other* character looks sooooo good in red...
In any case, thanks for the kind words! Gotta warn you, Shai and Zeddie only appear briefly in The Terror of Twelvety Town. Shai's scenes are brief, and Zeddie's are brief, but critical. (She gets to do my Conan-style grand ass whupping.) Kadien doesn't appear in that one, but he has a lot of screen time in the next novella, Valorous Daughter.