ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Griffyn612 on October 16, 2020, 10:44:16 PM
-
There was a mention of some special clothing that Lara was wearing in Battle Ground. I think there was a previous mention of it in maybe Peace Talks, but was there another somewhere along the way? I meant to revisit it after the initial reading because it seemed like a known thing but I didn't remember it.
Edit: Here's the references towards the end of Battle Ground.
A group of panicked, fleeing octokongs went by as Lara and her people came bounding out of the chaos, their flowing, shroudlike white robes stained in various shades of blood. None of them looked hurt, and I saw one take a panicked blow from an octokong’s emptied arquebus. The shroud material twitched and moved, gathering thickly beneath where the blow began to land, and the body beneath seemed to briefly lose mobility and stiffen as the arquebus struck—and rebounded, the shroud actively pushing the weapon away, as the White Court vampire wearing it dealt a pair of lethal blows and breezed on by in a little twirling dance step.
Lara’s fighters sailed through the air with the greatest of ease, taking thirty-foot strides in great, leaping bounds, moving almost weightlessly, their shroud-armor fluttering and snapping.
Ethniu batted Lara aside like a rag doll and rose—only to stumble, as Lara’s shroud-armor writhed off the vampire like a living thing, like some kind of bizarre invertebrate from the deep sea, and wrapped around the Titan’s knees, binding them together. Ethniu fell back down again and was forced to briefly struggle against the living cloth.
-
It seemed like something new to me. I don't recall it having shown up before ... though I could be mistaken...
-
It seemed like something new to me. I don't recall it having shown up before ... though I could be mistaken...
Seeing it in combat seemed new to me, but I kind of almost recall something about clothes settling on or around her or another Wamp at some point.
-
Huh, the only other living clothes I remember are Sharkface's cloak.
-
Huh, the only other living clothes I remember are Sharkface's cloak.
It might not have been Dresden Files. I read some scifi stuff recently that had smart clothing that put itself on, so maybe I'm remembering that.
Still, it makes me wonder at the mechanism behind the Wamp's clothing. It's like it's enchanted in smart cloth that obeyed Lara's presumed mental command (attacking the enemy) even after being detached.
-
Still, it makes me wonder at the mechanism behind the Wamp's clothing. It's like it's enchanted in smart cloth that obeyed Lara's presumed mental command (attacking the enemy) even after being detached.
Well, if it was flayed from someone/thing that was under her control, the enchantment would only need to handle movement. Possibly strip away the humanity from a rival vampire, so that all that remains is a mobile skin?
-
Well, if it was flayed from someone/thing that was under her control, the enchantment would only need to handle movement. Possibly strip away the humanity from a rival vampire, so that all that remains is a mobile skin?
But it doesn't act or look like skin. Otherwise Harry would have been more adamant about how gross it looked. And it's described as looking like fabric, so it's not likely even leather.
I'm trying to think of any enchantment we've seen that's even remotely like what the fabric is. Short of spirit possession animating objects (like Bob and the statues), we haven't seen that level of manipulation, other than Before's tendrils, like TCF said.
But I took that as more that Before is used to having tentacles, and he made something that would let him control them like regular limbs. I don't think they would have worked if detached.
We've seen the Wamps mess with Little Folk before, using them as lamps. I'm wondering if they're doing the same with the cloth, imbuing it with some spirit creature similar to Bob but not in his class.
And depending on the level of cooperation, would Harry do the same with his duster to make it similar to Strange's cloak of levitation?
-
The White Court is Etruscan in origin, it is the language they choose to converse in. The Etruscan’s had their own version of the Fates, same beings different names to the Greek.
What if the cloth was a gift from the Fates? A Ravelling as opposed to an unravelling. Given that The Queens of Faerie are inheritors of the Greek Fates (amongst others) it may explain what Winter wants with an alliance with the White Court, they are revisiting an old association. Oh and the God of War in the Etruscan Pantheon, the Ares equivalent is Laran.
I think that the White Court arise out of something that happened in relation to Erus (Eros) and Psyche, the original Whamp being a scion of them or their daughter Volupta/Hedone corrupted somehow. Psyche is depicted with butterfly wings (Psyche is Greek for butterfly) it’s no accident that is how we see Thomas depicted in Grave Peril.
-
It may also be completely new. In Peace Talks, when Harry goes to Lara's place (before the Wardens ambush him and interrogate him about visiting her/sleeping with her), he (Harry) notes that the wards on the Raith mansion have been seriously upgraded. Stands to reason that Lara also got some new badass clothes at the same time since she's obviously prepping for the worst...
-
I wondered about those clothes too. It isn't like Butcher to write about something like that and not circle back around to it with a further explanation. Hopefully in the next book.
-
I don't believe we've seen these before, but their style did make me think of Madrigal's arm bands.
Madrigal, meanwhile, carried a spear with a seven-foot haft, and his arms were wrapped with two long strips of black cloth covered in vaguely oriental characters in metallic red thread. I’d have guessed that they were constructs of some kind, even before I felt the ripple of magical energy in them as he walked with Vitto to stand facing us from thirty feet away.
Perhaps White Vampire practitioners have an affinity for enchanting cloth items.
-
I guess I'm mostly curious about method and origin. We haven't seen much in the way of self-propelled enchanted items in the Dresdenverse. We've seen it in other series like Harry Potter and Alex Versus, but with its physics grounding, the Dresdenverse has so far constituted movement and reaction with intelligent sentient beings.
Between the movement and intelligence and the durability, I don't think we've seen anything like it. Not for Insider folks.
-
What is really creepy about them is they are described as "shrouds." This is usually what is wrapped around the dead..
-
What is really creepy about them is they are described as "shrouds." This is usually what is wrapped around the dead..
I think they're supposed to be like body wrap linens. Fashionable ones, of course, because the White Court would stand for nothing less.
I'm picturing something like this but in all white.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/18/0f/4e/180f4e33bc062867ddb03d191b8aaa92.jpg)
-
I imagined it more like a symbiont, like Venom, only white.
-
I imagined it more like a symbiont, like Venom, only white.
That's probably like how it functions, but not how it looks. But part of the question is, are the clothes sentient? Or is it just magical programming? And what power source?
-
More "flowy", yes. I think I've seen a comic book woman wearing something like that, covering even her face, but I can't remember where.
-
More "flowy", yes. I think I've seen a comic book woman wearing something like that, covering even her face, but I can't remember where.
I feel like it's a common trope but I'm not seeing the things I'm thinking of.
The White Court is Etruscan in origin, it is the language they choose to converse in. The Etruscan’s had their own version of the Fates, same beings different names to the Greek.
What if the cloth was a gift from the Fates? A Ravelling as opposed to an unravelling. Given that The Queens of Faerie are inheritors of the Greek Fates (amongst others) it may explain what Winter wants with an alliance with the White Court, they are revisiting an old association. Oh and the God of War in the Etruscan Pantheon, the Ares equivalent is Laran.
I think that the White Court arise out of something that happened in relation to Erus (Eros) and Psyche, the original Whamp being a scion of them or their daughter Volupta/Hedone corrupted somehow. Psyche is depicted with butterfly wings (Psyche is Greek for butterfly) it’s no accident that is how we see Thomas depicted in Grave Peril.
I've had a hard time finding anything specific to Etruscan or Roman mythology, but there's one thing that might be quasi-relevant.
The Velificatio effect. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velificatio)
In the real world, it's just an artist's stylistic device used to denote divinity or royalty. It means "vigorous movement," or "the vault of heaven," both of which would be good to describe mobile garments made to defend the wearer.
Maybe in the Dresdenverse the motif and name was inspired by real fabric that powerful beings possessed. And as the White Court royalty, House Raith acquired some?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Diana-selene%2C_da_originale_ellenistico%2C_da_porta_s._sebastiano_02.JPG/440px-Diana-selene%2C_da_originale_ellenistico%2C_da_porta_s._sebastiano_02.JPG)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Villa_dei_Misteri_V_-_2.jpg/170px-Villa_dei_Misteri_V_-_2.jpg)
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/342/034/large/loreto-diaz-velificatio.jpg?1505457420)
-
Oh, I like that
-
JB is a big Black Company fan and clothes like these were a big part of the last series of Black Company books. The main character even killed the Big Bad by pushing a bomb next to her while being wrapped in 3 layers of it.
-
I've never heard of that, but sounds about right.
I am thinking is like if your clothes were made of Spawn's cape :)
-
JB is a big Black Company fan and clothes like these were a big part of the last series of Black Company books. The main character even killed the Big Bad by pushing a bomb next to her while being wrapped in 3 layers of it.
Spoilers!!!
-
LOL! I thought the same :P
-
But I could see him using that as an inspiration. I haven't read TBC past the first trilogy, but knowing his interest in it, I'm half expecting Mirror Mirror to be a world like TBC, with some regions of Earth controlled by risen old gods and demons.
-
It might not have been Dresden Files.
Having just watched Doctor Strange again, it reminds me of his cloak of levitation.
I'm wondering if they're doing the same with the cloth, imbuing it with some spirit creature similar to Bob but not in his class.
Well, Bob did do it with Harry's duster for Butters.
And depending on the level of cooperation, would Harry do the same with his duster to make it similar to Strange's cloak of levitation?
Lol.
the Dresdenverse has so far constituted movement and reaction with intelligent sentient beings.
There are Mai's temple dog statues. It can be done, but I'm guessing it's very high level stuff.
-
I can't say how the clothes are done but Jim told you who did it when Harry asked Molly to make his suit.
“Hah!” she said, grinning. Then her expression sobered. “I’ve done some work like it lately.
Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 155). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
And the impact of something hitting the clothes was used by Larry Niven in Ringworld.
-
I can't say how the clothes are done but Jim told you who did it when Harry asked Molly to make his suit.And the impact of something hitting the clothes was used by Larry Niven in Ringworld.
That quote is about the doppleganger ring he asked for, wasn't it?
-
That quote is about the doppleganger ring he asked for, wasn't it?
“And it’s enchanted,” I mused. I could feel the subtle currents of energy moving through the cloth, beneath my palms. I closed my eyes for a moment and felt the familiar shapes of my own defensive wardings, the same ones I worked into my leather coat. I’d taught the grasshopper the basics of enchanting gear by using my own most familiar formulae. She was probably the only person alive who could have duplicated my own work so closely. “Yeah, see? Once I’m wearing this, it’s going to store the energy of my body heat, of my movements, and use it to help redirect incoming forces.”
Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 167). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
She gives him a suit and a ring.
-
She gives him a suit and a ring.
Sure, but based on the convo with Maggie, he clearly was expecting the ring, but not the suit. The suit was a surprise, and therefore not what he asked for.
-
It isn't clear. She trades a favor for the gift. She doesn't seem to be able to give him anything without that trade. But the armor looks to be a product of her enchantments. The fight at the dock is what called back the memory of the passage. The two effects are pretty much the same. He's doing in the fight what the robe is doing for Lara. The difference is in the degree. Lara's robe functions are simpler as compared to the ring and the suit. I had asked early what Lara's first favor was. And it looks like this was it.
-
Spoilers!!!
Soldiers Live was published in 2001. I'm gonna count that as past spoiler date.
-
It isn't clear. She trades a favor for the gift. She doesn't seem to be able to give him anything without that trade. But the armor looks to be a product of her enchantments. The fight at the dock is what called back the memory of the passage. The two effects are pretty much the same. He's doing in the fight what the robe is doing for Lara. The difference is in the degree. Lara's robe functions are simpler as compared to the ring and the suit. I had asked early what Lara's first favor was. And it looks like this was it.
The suit does seem to be manufactured by her, based on his comments about it being worked with his own spells, just like he would have taught her. But the uniqueness of the Raith shrouds is the mobility and independent action, which are not his spells and his suit did not exhibit.
Also, her first favor was asking to date Harry. So if Winter had any hand in making the suits, it'd be as a separate and unmentioned deal.
-
Griff, I agree about Lara's first favor (Gosh, I would like to know what Lara did to win 3 favors. She used her mind, says Mab. And Lara told Eb that she had worked some visas for Mab's people. There is an interesting story there).
The first time I read the book I assumed that Harry has asked Molly for both the suit and the ring but I am currently rereading PT, and when they make the deal, Molly says that she would do "your toy". Singular word. So I don't know.
Perhaps Molly manage to do the suit without incurring in obligation just as government gave policemen uniforms and weapons. It's supposed to be done by the "contractor" not the employee. Instead, a ring would be more like if the employee was paying for an update with their own money. But I may be wrong, it's just a theory.
-
The suit does seem to be manufactured by her, based on his comments about it being worked with his own spells, just like he would have taught her. But the uniqueness of the Raith shrouds is the mobility and independent action, which are not his spells and his suit did not exhibit.
Also, her first favor was asking to date Harry. So if Winter had any hand in making the suits, it'd be as a separate and unmentioned deal.
So it was an upgrade. Or not. But it's where I would hang my hat, if I had one. You seem to be right on the favors. However I'm calling foul on Jim. In the back of the car Mab says she's already agreed to the first favor. At the end of Battleground she says the third favor is granted.“She has indicated that she wishes to collect upon these favors,” Mab said. “I have already agreed to one.
Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 54). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
“Excellent,” said Mab from behind us. “Lady Lara, upon due consideration, your third favor is granted.
Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (p. 388). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Which the **** is it? That's a rhetorical to Jim, not you.