"You're unconscious, moron," my double said to me. We can finally talk to one another."
“A stuffed animal, man!” I roared at him. “Don’t mess with a wizard when he’s wizarding!” I let out a cackle that threatened to bring the wild hysteria that still lurked inside me back in full force, and banished it with a ferocious scowl. Poor Rudolph bore the brunt of both expressions,”
Something nagged me about this entire deal, something that was missing, but I’d be damned if I could figure out what it was
I gripped my blasting rod and started sucking in all the power I could reach, scooping up my recent terror, reaching down into the giggling madness, scraping up all the courage I had left and pouring it into the kettle with everything else. The power came rushing into me, purity of emotion, complex energies of will, and raw hardheadedness, all combining into a field, an aura of tingling, invisible energy that I could feel enveloping my skin.
[snip]at least a page of intervening stuff[/snip]
Red anger flooded me, rage that I realized with some dim part of my mind was as much a part of the beast and its blood-maddened frenzy as it was of me.
“It seemed so empty to me, at that moment. Meaningless to be a hero. I felt burned on the inside, as though the fire I had hurled at the creature had scoured away all the gentle feelings that had been there and left a fallow ground behind where only red emotions could flourish.
The stairs were tough, and for a minute I thought I might just lie down and die on the first landing, but a helpful old fire-man lent me a hand down to the first floor, asking me several times if I needed a doctor. I assured him that I was fine and prayed that he didn’t notice the handcuffs dangling from either wrist. He didn’t. He was as wide around the eyes as everyone else, stunned.
“That was stupid, Harry,” I told myself. “You shouldn’t be getting yourself into anything
more complicated than you already have.”
I was right. But the potential gains made the risk worth it. I could possibly find the killers,
stop them, and additionally find out why the cops had a bug up their collective ass about me.
It might help me to work things out with Murphy. It might even help me get her out of the
trouble she was having.
“Cheer up, Harry,” I told myself. “You’re just going to go poke around a biker gang’s lair. Ask
them if they happen to have killed some people lately. What could possibly go wrong?”
Grimalkin mewled from the pew beside me, “That your experience with resisting the shadow of the Fallen One has garnered the respect of the Watchman, my Emissary.”Mab's comment implies that it wasn't until after Harry resisted Lash that Uriel took an interest in him. But the Fae work in half truths and misdirections, and there's enough leeway there to allow for Uriel to have already been aware, and that event simply elevated his interest. It's also possible that Uriel went non-linear, and has watched Harry in the past because of something he did in the future. That type of thinking makes my head hurt.
My double slipped in front of me again, apparently without needing to cross the intervening space. “It isn’t that simple, Harry. No matter where you go, there you are.”
He pursed his lips and thought about it for a moment. Then he said, “No matter where you go, there you are.”
Edit: I don't see how discussion of the SG sample chapters can add to this topic, and I'd really like Griff's input, but he won't read it unless we avoid the sample chapters. So...no SG sample chapter spoilers in this topic please.I see significance as it relates to the Winter Knight's mantle. However since Harry is more aware than he was back in Dead Beat when Lasciel was holding long conversation with it in hopes of influencing Harry though the back door so to speak. Harry's Id is important, controlled a lot of his strength and power come from it, but he has to control it least he become a thug. Where as Harry could debate his Id and Lasciel, there is no argument with the mantle. The mantle thrives in Harry's Id, somewhere he has to find the strength and will to control it and thus himself.
So I doubt I'll be able to finish my current reread before the SG release (too much Diablo 3 in my free time) but I'm currently working my way through FM, and this passage got me wondering...
The thing is, this is the second time that day that Harry had been unconscious due to injuries and fatigue. The first time, the night before, he passed out after getting shot in the shoulder and using magic to cover their escape. He ended up not waking again until the afternoon of the day Id showed up.
The first possible explanation I can give for “why then?” is the Doylist reason that that’s when Jim needed him to advance certain things in the plot. However, if we want to ascribe more significance to Id, then we should have better reasons than that, so we have to ask what happened when he fell unconscious this time that is somehow different.
I’ll try to bust out the following excerpts in chronological order, and discuss their relevance before coming to the next one.
This is a passage illustrating how Harry is demonstrably a little unhinged in the sequence of events before passing out and spending time with Id. This particular quote is significant to me because it reminds me a lot of some of his behavior in SmF during the Hobbs fight when he was dealing with the mental whammy Mab laid on him to wipe his memory of fire magic. It’s also significant because during the Id sequence, Id straight up said, “If you weren’t getting pretty close to crazy, would you be talking to yourself right now?”
Next passage:
I think Harry might have thought something similar a couple times running up to falling unconscious, but this one is practically on the same page as the excerpt above. It implies that Id his “subconscious” is trying to get something through to him right then.
I included these two excerpts together even though a page of action intervenes because I wonder if when grabbing for energy, he pulled in some kind of taint from the curse’s aura. The timing and the “realized with some dim part of my mind” quip make me wonder if it’s tied to Id’s showing up. Just a thought.
This also ties a bit into the next passage, considering some of what he did with that energy. First a summary though. Harry pulls off a moment of awesome blasting the Loup Garou through multiple buildings in a blast of rage and fire. Then after debating using thaumaturgy to burn the Loup Garou from existence, he instead goes the protection rout and cripples him using the snoopy doll intending to save both MacFinn, and any of his potential victims. Immediately after casting these two spells he thinks:
So not only did Harry apparently expose himself to the Loup Garou’s aura while wielding magic, but we know that how you use magic affects who you are (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39794.0.html). Interestingly, though, Harry cast two spells with natures almost diametrically opposed immediately before these haunted thoughts. One was a massive, destructive evocation that wreaked havoc, and the other was a working of thaumaturgy designed to protect both the target and anyone who could have ended up in the target’s path.
What an amazing snapshot of Harry’s inner struggle in using his strength to wreak havoc and protect at the same time.
Woahboy. SmF makes “helpful old man” cameo set off flags in my head. Could be nothing, but it happens practically the same page as Harry passed out. Maybe Uriel was on the scene during these events, and maybe he has some influence on the Id front…
Soooo, in conclusion, if being unconscious due to fatigue and trauma earlier that day wasn’t enough to elicit a visit from Id, then three possible influences that enabled the Id sequence would be (interesting enough, this order is both sequential, and IMO, of probability)
- Harry was getting unhinged by what was going on.
- Harry exposed himself to some bad Loup Garou mojo, and possibly exacerbated it when using his magic to wreak havoc.
- Vague possibility of angelic influence
I like it.
I especially like the helpful old man bit. Perhaps uriel was there to pick up some new blood for his office? Carmichael just kicked it after all. Perhaps he stopped to lend harry a hand on the way/get a look at him upclose?
Woah. Cool call. Combined with the "wherever you go there you are" point Griff brought up, this makes for 3 flags for placing Uriel on the scene.Sounds legit to me. Are there any other places specifically mentioned "old men" pop up for a second? DB there's the guy that sells pumpkins and helps harry to his car. Any more?
GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: August 01, 2011, 11:31:53 AM »
I just was reading Fool Moon Ch. 20 and ran across the following regarding Harry meeting his subconscious and trying to get away from him.
My double slipped around me and got in my way before I could leave teh circle of light. "Hold it. You really don't want to do this." I'm tired. I feel like shit. I'm hurt. And what I really dont want is to waste any more time dreaming about you." I narrowed my eyes at my double. "Now get out of my way." I turned to my right and started walking toward the nearest edge of the circle. My double slipped in front of me again, apparently without needing to cross the intervening space. It isn't that simple, Harry. No matter where you go, there you are." End.
Now the above phrase "No matter where you go, there you are" is the same statement that Uriel tells Harry in Ghost Story when Harry says the following. "Just tell me something. Something useful. I'll be happy with whatever I get." He (Uriel) pursed his lips and thought about it for a moment. Then he said, "No matter where you go, there you are."
Ok. Now is Uriel wanting Harry to consult this "Subconscious Harry". It in my opinion seems that way.
Mab's comment implies that it wasn't until after Harry resisted Lash that Uriel took an interest in him. But the Fae work in half truths and misdirections, and there's enough leeway there to allow for Uriel to have already been aware, and that event simply elevated his interest. It's also possible that Uriel went non-linear, and has watched Harry in the past because of something he did in the future. That type of thinking makes my head hurt.
I thought of Mab's comment too, suggesting Uriel only decided Harry was worthy of notice after he resisted Lash for so long.Yes, it is possible because Harry is a star child and could have a significant roll to play in the future, he has kept a very close eye on Harry. He may even have had orders regarding Harry. Just a WAG but how about if Harry gave into the shadow, kill him.. Because if the other side gained a powerful wizard and a star child too boot, that would give them unfair advantage.
Of course, Mab isn't omniscient - she could be plain wrong, in addition to speaking vaguely.
"That all for ya?" asked an nterprising vendor. He was a potbellied balding gardner selling fresh fruit and vegetables from the back of a pickup on a corner, and he was the only one I'd seen who wasn't trying gouge Chicagoans in their moment of trial. He put the pumpkin I'd chosen in a thin plastic bag as he did, and took the money I offered.
"About time I got my old self out of here anyway, I think. Getting tense around here. Thunderstorm's coming in."
"Newspaper weatherman said it was supposed to be clear," I said.
The vendor snorted and tapped his nose. I've lived around this old lake all my life. there's a storm coming."
Boy was there. In spades.
He nodded to me. "You should get home. Good night to stay in and read a book."
I am reading chapter 30 of Dead Beat and came across something which reminded me of this topic:Man, I hope not.
The gardner then points out how the city's mood is getting worse and after helping Harry get his things into his car he says:
The thing is, this guy says "hell" and "damned" as well, which kinda goes against the angelic motif. I just thought he was an interesting character and wondered if he had a hidden identity. Maybe Odin or something.