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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Mr. Death on November 11, 2014, 07:06:38 PM

Title: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: Mr. Death on November 11, 2014, 07:06:38 PM
So I thought of this in the context of zombies, but given they're basically constructs, it applies to the broader category as well.

Fire erodes and cleanses magic, right? So would fire be considered a general catch for constructs? Or perhaps an aspect that can be invoked?
Title: Re: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: Haru on November 11, 2014, 07:56:58 PM
I think it would be easy to just make that part of the catch if you want to safe some points when creating the construct, but it doesn't have to be.

Mechanically, I think it's a different thing if you attack the construct or the magic that holds it together. In both cases, you burn it with fire, but one would be a regular attack, the other would be a counterspell using fire magic.
Title: Re: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: citadel97501 on November 11, 2014, 08:47:30 PM
It should be noted that since most constructs are formed with Thaumaturgy and a lot of power, counter-spelling one is going to be very difficult with a straight up evocation spell.  I would highly suggest just burning it to ash, this is supported pretty well by the books.  Here are three in spoilers just off hand...

Harry vs.
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Harry vs.
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Harry vs.
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Title: Re: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: Mr. Death on November 11, 2014, 08:58:29 PM
Quote from: citadel97501 on November 11, 2014, 08:47:30 PM
It should be noted that since most constructs are formed with Thaumaturgy and a lot of power, counter-spelling one is going to be very difficult with a straight up evocation spell.  I would highly suggest just burning it to ash, this is supported pretty well by the books.  Here are three in spoilers just off hand...

Harry vs.
(click to show/hide)
Harry vs.
(click to show/hide)
Harry vs.
(click to show/hide)
Then again, the Warden Swords pretty easily discorporate a zombie, and they're only a 6-shift counterspell.

Also, I don't think you need to spoiler stuff from Storm Front, and Harry doesn't use fire at all in Dead Beat.

Quote from: Haru on November 11, 2014, 07:56:58 PM
I think it would be easy to just make that part of the catch if you want to safe some points when creating the construct, but it doesn't have to be.

Mechanically, I think it's a different thing if you attack the construct or the magic that holds it together. In both cases, you burn it with fire, but one would be a regular attack, the other would be a counterspell using fire magic.
That makes sense, with Harry occasionally saying fire has this quality when used with this intent.
Title: Re: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: gojj on November 14, 2014, 02:41:10 AM
I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with Haru.

I think fire's cleansing properties is better represented as justification for attempting to counterspell with fire than as satisfying the catch for any construct. Zombies have a weakness to fire in many fantasy settings, but if someone makes a rock golem, or summons a demon, I don't think those would be inherently weak to fire just because they are a construct.
Title: Re: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: PirateJack on November 14, 2014, 07:17:45 PM
The easiest way to manage it is to make Fire their Catch.
Title: Re: Fire Vs. Constructs
Post by: Haru on November 14, 2014, 07:42:13 PM
Quote from: gojj on November 14, 2014, 02:41:10 AM
I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with Haru.
You'd be surprised how often I find myself in that exact same situation.

My idea was basically to say that when creating the construct, you could (but don't have to) give it fire as a(n additional) catch to lower the creation costs (however you calculate that) of the construct. That way, fire will always do more damage, and you can say that's because it burns away part of the magic as well as part of the construct. If you decide against it, you can simply say that you put enough magic into it so that the fire can't burn away enough to hurt it or something similar, but you'll have to pay full prize (or find another catch).