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Messages - Kindler

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1066
DF Spoilers / Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:38:49 PM »
I'm distinguishing between working with, and being nemfected.

To clarify, I think Mab thought that Summer might have been infected.

1067
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:11:04 PM »
Murphy wasn't just concerned about Dresden in Cold Days, she was pissed. Her first real words to Harry are "You don't call, you don't write..." She felt glad to see him, but still feels betrayed, with pretty good reason. After she goes along to Chichen Itza with Harry and Pals, they make a date, and she promptly finds his murder scene. Immediately thereafter, she's thrust into a conflict with supernatural predators, and her until-then dependable companion and invaluable resource in fighting monsters is gone. She's forced to make tough decisions for a year, while desperately holding on to the slim hope that Harry isn't even dead.

Then Harry comes back as (what she thinks is) a ghost, and she's blatantly crushed. She spends most of Ghost Story in denial. Then his ghost appears to move on, from Mort's ending conversation, and she's crushed all over again.

Then Cold Days kicks off, and Harry is basically like "Surprise! I've been alive for like six to eight months or so," but Harry doesn't pick up a phone and call her, she finds him. She then spends the next, what, fifteen, twenty hours with him? The main plot of Cold Days starts pretty much at 12:01 Halloween morning, and ends just before dawn on November 1st. We're talking about thirty hours, total.

I think it's extremely unfair to expect Murphy to deal with the fact that the guy she has feelings for and might even love has pretty much come back from the dead, had been back from the dead for quite a while, and is clearly under the influence of the Winter Knight's Mantle, all in a matter of a little over a day.

She's perfectly within her rights to question Harry's mental health. In her shoes, wouldn't you think that maybe some of this is a little too good to be true? It's essentially a granted wish, or an answered prayer, far, far later than you would have hoped.

Then a year passes, and Skin Game starts up. Butters explains his perspective, that Harry's return was a huge Hope Spot for everyone in Chicago, only for Dresden to disappear back to Demonreach rather than be the typical Snark Knight they'd come to expect and kick the Fomor out of the city. I get the sense that Butters didn't go out to Demonreach all that often, if at all, so he had no idea what Harry was doing.

Murphy, meanwhile, signs up pretty much right away. She's just surprised that Harry wants her to come. She backs his plan pretty much without reservation. When Dresden asks if she's going to bring the swords because these are the guys they're pretty much made to fight, her response isn't "No, I don't trust you," it's along the lines of "I've wielded one for real, and I get the feeling that this isn't their fight." She's not speaking from mistrust, she's speaking from experience.

She's right, by the way; if she had heeded her own instincts, the sword would never have been broken.

Instead, she decides to involve the sword when they see the Genoskwa. Again, I don't see this as mistrust at all. This is her grabbing something because she sees something that can physically outmatch her and was able to toss Mantled Harry around like a paper doll, the same guy who she saw literally smash thousands of vampires with a word a couple years before.

The bone of contention seems to be whether or not she withheld the fact that the rocket launcher was actually the sword from Harry was because she didn't trust him or because she knew Nic might be listening in. I don't think either one need be true, and I'm not sure why it's even evidence of mistrust.

There's no practical reason to tell Harry. All telling him would do is give him the opportunity to let slip that she has it with her. She's able to hold back its involvement as a sucker punch—which is not a good idea, mostly because I don't think that's how the swords are supposed to be used, but it doesn't say anything about her opinion of Harry or their relationship. Messing up isn't demonstrative of lack of trust.

Even if she's not considering practicality, she doesn't tell Harry.

So what? I don't understand why that's a problem. Did Harry tell her (or even the reader) about the seventy-seven sigils he carved onto his staff? He knows she has a weapon that might make the Genoskwa think twice. Isn't that enough?

I just don't think Murphy not cheerleading Harry in every scene demonstrates lack of trust or a change in character. She's never been that way before, so why would she be now?

Concerning keeping the Swords, well, she has no reason to give them to Harry during Cold Days. He's clearly not in his right mind, and they only come up within ten minutes of them having their first real conversation in a couple of years. Then, after the book, Harry retreats to Demonreach. What, she's supposed to hand two of the most powerful weapons for Good and Nice Things to a hermit, where they can't do anyone any good at all, while Chicago is still essentially under siege? It seems pretty clear to me that she's holding on to them so that they might be of use in an emergency, while Dresden is perfectly capable of burning most things to a cinder, along with the car the guy's driving and the city block around him. He doesn't need the option, but she, and the people of Chicago, might.

I don't think it's an accident that Harry getting the sword (of Love, funnily enough) happens right after he decides to be a dad, and rejoin society.

As for Butters, I don't think his lack of faith is unfounded. He gives pretty good reasons for not trusting Harry completely. And when he realizes how dumb he was, his reaction is almost verbatim, "I'm an idiot." Personally, I think he took to espionage like a giraffe to table tennis, and was trying too hard to be Batman, who famously trusts nobody ('cept Alfred and Dick). Someone I know found it infuriating that Butters's lack of faith was rewarded with a sword, but my interpretation is that broken faith broke the sword of faith, then restored faith restored the sword of faith.

But it's Murphy who pays the price for Butters's mistrust. Not that she doesn't make mistakes, but that the situation was created mostly by a friend who didn't have enough faith. Butters didn't even trust Murphy, the woman he'd fought alongside for the past year or two, to keep a level head about Dresden and the fight. He gets better, but he's not the one who pays for his mistakes, aside from guilt.

Anyway, I've yet to see any evidence that shows Murphy acting inconsistent with her character, or seriously distrusting Harry, aside from twenty hours during which she has every reason to doubt Harry, but still drives a freaking motorcycle onto a lake when he asks her to.

If anything, I think Murphy is doubting herself.

1068
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« on: August 15, 2017, 04:53:01 PM »
My biggest problem with the "someone must be a traitor" thing -- aside from literally everyone in Harry's inner circle having proven themselves time and again to be totally on his side -- is that the suggestion that someone could be a traitor comes from Lily, who got all her information from Maeve, who was an agent of Nemesis and therefore had every motivation to lie her frigid butt off and sow dissent among her enemies.

If there is a traitor among Harry's crew, it'd make a lot more sense for Maeve to get Lily to tell Dresden he's safe.

On the other hand, if there is not a traitor among Harry's crew, then telling him there is one is a great way to start putting wedges between people.

Mirrors my thoughts pretty well. I do think that there is a high probability of conflicting loyalties, but not outright betrayal. Thomas having to make bad choices during the course of the Oblivion War, Molly obviously having to fulfill her role as Winter Lady, Billy choosing his wife and daughter over Harry—that kind of thing.

The only one who doesn't really have a chance for any conflicting loyalty at all is Murphy. She's the least likely candidate to turn on Harry, at least now. Her family is (presumably) estranged and/or dead (I'm assuming that Jim's "Murphy's funeral" comment refers to her mother, and Karrin and her sister don't get along, especially after she married her ex-husband), her friends and allies on the force aren't doing much for her anymore (considering she has to ally herself with someone like Marcone rather than feed information directly to SI)... pretty much the only thing she has to hold on to is Harry and company. He's the one who brought her into all of the conflicts she participates in now, so it's not even as though she'd need to keep secrets from him, like Thomas does.

The only motivation she'd have to turn on him would be a feeling of inadequacy compelling her to seek a power-up that changes her personality, and I really, really doubt she'd do it willingly. Especially not after the mental invasion that she still has PTSD over.

1069
DF Spoilers / Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« on: August 15, 2017, 04:40:43 PM »
Mab might have thought that it was Summer who had infected Lea, and responded with troop posturing to see what they would do. I don't think the attack on Arctis Tor was repulsed by Mab personally; I think she was forced to stay with Lea, because she was close to being cured. Eldest Fetch and Company may have been the ones who actually defeated the attack, showing up with Molly and convincing the raiders to run after the Ogres softened them up.

I can't help but think that Mab left Arctis Tor virtually undefended as bait.

I've been assuming that Mab found out about Maeve from the attack. What I don't understand is why Mab let her remain free after figuring it out. I get that she didn't want to kill her, but there are other options.

1070
DF Spoilers / Re: Bob's Personality, and Justin
« on: August 15, 2017, 02:59:04 PM »

2)I think Walkers are "deeper" than the likes of Mab because they are not subject to the branching of the Multiverse, that there is only One of each.  Some have suggested the same of angels, etc.

I haven't heard this before (I lurk a lot more than I post), and I think this is kind of brilliant. It can open up wider story potential for Mirror, Mirror, too.

1071
DF Spoilers / Re: Maggie's School Friends at SMAGT
« on: August 15, 2017, 01:06:07 AM »
I think it would be interesting to see a relative of Tera West...

Wasn't she pregnant at the end of Fool Moon? MacFinn's curse explicitly states that his bloodline can't end, and it's not mentioned if he was seeing anyone else. The kid would be the right age to be one of the older kids, too.

Marcone having a secret kid would be... weird. A nephew, though... that wouldn't require any in-universe explanation, and can functionally be the same as a son.

It'd be kind of cool to see Monica Sells's kids, maybe as guidance counselors or something, or the supernatural equivalent of the DARE program. Maybe the homeless kids from Ghost Story. I'd like to see them have some kind of happy ending.

1072
DF Spoilers / Re: Bob's Personality, and Justin
« on: August 14, 2017, 10:20:38 PM »
I envision Harry digging through the ashes looking for Elaine's body, finding a skull, touching it, and discovering it talks.

If he never saw Justin speaking with the skull, it's personality but would be almost entirely the imprint of Harry's teenage subconscious.

Part of my justification was that Harry wouldn't have gone back for a skull he didn't know was valuable, but now that I think about it, that's entirely possible, and might have even thought that the skull was hers, snatching it up in grief, which would be a nice bit of trauma for teenage Harry.

Though Harry still thought that Elaine had betrayed him at the time, judging from his explanation in Summer Knight. Still, it's a pretty Harry thing to do.

The thing is, Bob's wording in Dead Beat is strange.  In regards to his knowledge of Kemmler, he said, editing out Harry's parts...

To me, it sounds like he had already cut off Evil Bob at some previous occasion.  I know Bob says in Ghost Story that Evil Bob is the part he cut off because of Harry's orders in Dead Beat, but it also sounds like there could have been more out there already.  Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

I don't think you're reading into it too much at all. I don't think that Ghost Story Bob's explanation jibes well with Dead Beat, now that I think about it more. Bob says he cut off Evil Bob when Harry ordered him to in Ghost Story, and in Dead Beat says that he can only provide general information that the Wardens would have known about Kemmler, right? He then only provides broad strokes for his Kemmler rundown immediately following his encounter with Dresden.

So then how did Bob help Cowl pull off the Darkhallow? It indicates to me that the knowledge has to be there somewhere.

I generally don't like "continuity error" as an explanation, and Jim goes to great pains to avoid it. Even with five series books and four Codex Alera books in between Dead Beat and Ghost Story and accounting for natural human memory issues, I assume that it means that Bob can't fully lop off a complete part of himself. Either that or Bob cut off that part of himself later. Anyway, something's hinky about it, and it could mean that Evil Bob (or other, Evil-er Bobs) was (/were) already running (floating?) around.

1073
DF Spoilers / Bob's Personality, and Justin
« on: August 14, 2017, 02:39:28 AM »
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I'm doing a series reread for the...severalth time this year in preparation for Briefcases, and I find myself thinking about Bob discussing first impressions. After Butters takes ownership of the Skull, Bob explains to Harry that the reason he isn't all that different is because Butters' first impression of him was when he was still Harry's Bob. We saw what he was like when he was Kemmler's assistant in Dead Beat, and from that and other things Bob has said, Bob changes based on the owner's personalities—but those first impressions really matter, and set the tone.

Now, Harry pulled Bob out from the wreckage of Justin's house, that much we know.

But why would he have done that? Bob's just a skull. Harry would have had no reason to go back for him—unless he knew what he was. And if he saw him working with Justin, what could he possibly have been like for Harry's first impression of him to be... so Bob-like?

What I'm getting at is that it's entirely possible that Bob was much closer to Harry's Bob when Justin had him than we might think—which says some things about Justin.

My question is this: how close do you think Harry's Bob was to Justin's Bob (because I'm basing this on the first impressions comment Bob has made, and if you don't think it's valid, then the rest doesn't really matter), and does this mean that we might have the wrong idea about Justin's personality?

For the record, I'm not trying to lionize a villain, I'm just curious if we've had a clue into his personality for a while.

1074
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« on: August 10, 2017, 05:08:26 PM »
That is actually not peace and happiness, as was noted in Ghost Story. Purgatory (or whatever you want to call the in-between) is for people who can't pass on, because they are not at peace with their fate.

I'd think, on her way through Purgatory, she picks up her dad, and they move on together. If, you know, it happens at all, which I really doubt.

I also doubt she'll be turned into a Valkyrie, or anything supernatural. There's not much to be gained narratively by doing so, except to screw up her relationship with Dresden. At this point, if that happens, why bother even writing the relationship at all? It'd be a staggering anticlimax to happen in the next book or two.

No, I expect Murphy's role to be significant, but not on the front lines. She doesn't need to be fighting at Harry's side; he's done the Battle Couple thing with her, Susan, and Luccio often enough that it doesn't bring anything new to the table. And, as I've said in way too many threads already, I fully expect her to be involved with Tilly forming an FBI version of SI in Chicago, as Tilly's liaison with the supernatural community.

Aside from that, don't discount her role with Maggie. Dresden's daughter is going to need someone a bit more stable around, like she had with Michael and Charity. Harry's first experience with a stable environment was with Ebenezer, and by then he was sixteen and already had two burned building under his belt. I fully expect Murphy to become the "favorite aunt" she's frequently described as. She is, after all, the second person shown holding Maggie, and the only one Dresden relinquishes her to after Chichen Itza. I'm not saying she settles down to be a stereotypical housewife or anything, because that isn't Murphy, but I'd like to see how that relationship develops, and if she has any involvement in the YA series, maybe as the person Maggie calls instead of Dresden because she knows Murphy won't blow a whole through the school if she needs help.

Kind of the reverse of the Molly-Harry relationship, where the firstborn daughter sees a normal person show up and do normal things instead of a wizard showing up covered in blood.

After The Warrior, where Jim kind of hammers home the idea that the Fight doesn't stop because the soldier isn't increasing his body count, I really, really doubt he'd have Murphy get powered up.

1075
DF Spoilers / Re: Many Questions on Proven Guilty
« on: August 10, 2017, 03:23:12 PM »
In my opinion, I think that, if anyone has foreknowledge into the events of Proven Guilty, it's the Gatekeeper (obviously). I think the Gatekeeper clued Harry in to increase the odds that Molly's life would be saved, that she would become his apprentice, and would eventually succeed Maeve. Not that he knew precisely that all of that would happen, more that he sensed she'd be important, and that he saw probabilities, and acted accordingly. I think Bob gave the infodump on foresight for specifically this reason; the Gatekeeper was playing a much longer game, against the Outsiders, and acted with support of the Winter Court, with which he is demonstrably on decent, if not excellent, terms.

Proven Guilty doesn't take place in a vacuum, and I think the events of the previous book really played into things. I think the Gatekeeper saw some of the future possibilities change when Harry didn't die as was fated in Dead Beat, after things quieted down from the Red Court attacks. Harry became a Warden, struck up a good friendship with Ramirez and Luccio, Butters wasn't outright murdered by Grevane (and subsequently learns to deal with his fear a bit, starting his journey to becoming a Knight), the Erlking (who becomes important again in Changes and Cold Days, arguably the two most critically important books to the over-arching storyline) basically high-fives Dresden for resurrecting Sue, Luccio switches bodies, Morgan develops a grudging almost-not-quite-respect for Harry (which matters in Proven Guilty, at the ending trial), Mavra ends up with the Word of Kemmler, Grevane and Corpsetaker die, Cowl fails the Darkhallow, Thomas is disturbed enough by the events of the book to take night classes and start up his hair salon, and, probably most important, Murphy's flower garden gets messed up (sarcasm).

It's even possible that, if Harry had died, Molly might not have started practicing with her magic—her example and stated influence dying an early, undignified death on the street might have turned her off, though that's really, really stretching things.

The point is that all of these major, major events, involving really, really important players in the Grand Scheme only happen because Harry isn't killed in the first hundred pages of Dead Beat, which, if Gard is to be believed, was supposed to happen. There's no way I can see that the Gatekeeper, who seems to have an oddly acute sense of the future, didn't feel some kind of upheaval in possible futures with all of the changes that took place over the course of a day or two.

I think he felt it, and acted as best he could to steer Molly back onto the right track, because he sensed she'd be important, and he saw that she'd just be tried and executed without Harry's involvement.

As for Mab,  Winter has had interest in Molly for years at that point. Aside from her own considerable talents, influence over Molly provides influence over Michael, (or, and this is a serious, insanely wild guess, Amanda, who is my candidate to wield Amoracchius next).

I think that Mab saw an opportunity and took it, sending the Fetches to literally Fetch her, in order to give her incipient Knight a Fairy Tale Quest (during which he learns about the attack on Arctis Tor), and save Molly's life.

I think she suspected that Summer was the infected Court, which is why she wanted to save Molly—she already had Sarissa as a backup for Maeve—and why she was posturing on the Summer border. I think she might have actually been protecting the White Council from Summer, preventing them from joining in with the Reds.

She only knew that Lea was infected at this point. I think she figured out that Maeve was infected from the attack on Arctis Tor, which happened to be right when she had sent her main force away.

Remember, it wasn't Mab that called back Winter's forces, but pouring Summer fire into the Well. I do think that Mab intended that to happen once she realized that Maeve was Infected, but also wanted to see how Summer would react to Winter's sudden withdrawal; if they turned on the White Council, she'd know, and her forces were still close enough to turn around if she needed them to.

'Course, all of this could be just plain ol' bloviating.

I'm not sure whether that was actually Mab encased in ice or just a projection of her, watching things unfold. If it was her, she might have done it as a measure to prevent infection. I still have no idea how Nemesis is spread; the athame is implicated as the vector of transmission, but is it just by touch, prolonged exposure, or what?

As for who fixed Little Chicago, I have no clue. The Gatekeeper would be pretty cool.

1076
DF Spoilers / Re: New short story in process
« on: July 24, 2017, 04:03:59 PM »
No, that's just irrelevant background. An infodump is when story-necessary details are all lumped into one big delivery instead of integrated organically into the story where they would naturally occur (as "natural" as an artificially created story can be, that is). One of the old phrases in the genre writing community is "As you know, Bob," which mimics the typical start to such an infodump: one character explaining to another things they already know, purely for the purpose of delivering the information/background to the reader.

This is, of course, far too broad a generalization; good writers very often find ways of dumping a lot of story-necessary information at once without resorting to hamfisted "As you know, Bob" approaches, and nobody honestly thinks of those as infodumps. It's really a question of how deftly or clumsily the massive flow of information is woven into the effect of an organically developing plot/scene.

It's one of the reasons Bob was created, as far as I recall, as related by Jim. A good example in the story is Bob explaining the different types of werewolves in Fool Moon. It's justified within the story (Harry is asking him about it, and Bob talks for a few pages about them), so it avoids the kind of thing like, "As you know, Harry, there are four types of werewolves..."

Some like to use it to shoehorn characterization into a short scene. Christopher Nolan is bad about that. Watch Interstellar—way at the beginning, Michael Caine starts waxing poetical about how Matthew McCoughenaheralery was a brilliant engineer, and how he's frustrated that he was born into the wrong age and forced to go into agriculture, and so on. It overlaps with "show, don't tell"-related concepts (where this is telling rather than showing), similar to statements that start with "That makes me feel..."

Regular infodumps are possibly best exemplified by The Architect scene from the end of The Matrix Reloaded. He provides information relevant to the story and the universe in which it is set, explains a bunch of stuff, and then the story moves on.

1077
DF Spoilers / Re: Mortal Government Knowledge of Magic
« on: July 21, 2017, 01:44:52 PM »
But yes, assuming Harry had an appropriate spell, he could walk in, play some slots, cast his spell to win a multi-million dollar jackpot, and walk away rich. It is his moral code that stops him from doing that. Even if the casino caught him on tape chanting a spell, they would just think he is some crazy person that coincidentally got lucky.

He could probably even go do it at a couple more casinos. They report large winnings, so that would probably trigger an investigation by the gaming commission and an IRS audit, but again, if all they found was a crazy guy who thinks he cast a magic spell, he would get away with it.

I don't know about you guys, but I smell a short story here. A young Harry, shortly after trying to rob a convenience store and before the Council hunted him down, tries to beat a casino's odds so he can use the money to go into hiding. Casino security catches on, and one of the higher ups, who knows about the supernatural, reaches out to the White Council, which is how they tracked him down for his trial.

I'd read it.

1078
DF Spoilers / Re: The Brute Squad
« on: July 21, 2017, 01:40:46 PM »
"Brute Squad" was just Bob referencing The Princess Bride, as far as I can tell. In my head, I picture them as heavy bruisers. I think, if there is a new "one," they'd be the wardens Ebenezer had with him in Turn Coat, when he was waiting for word on Morgan's location to go take him down. Basically, just combat veterans who know how to bring the pain really well. Since the other thread got me thinking about the Codex Alera, I'd compare them to Knights Ignus—devastating, but very small in number.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Butcher Battle 17#: Tavi vs Nicodemus
« on: July 21, 2017, 01:32:42 PM »
I can't recall what the books suggested.  I thought there was a Bernard conversation where a couple people speculated, but didn't come to a conclusion.

Now, if I recall, it's hard for a crafter to simultaneously use conflicting furies.  Did Tavi ever get over that, or does that still apply?

In other words, wood/metal, fire/water, air/earth combos don't work.  That would affect what abilities he'd have in different scenarios.

There was a good conversation in Academ's Fury between Max and Tavi about whether or not human perception of furies made them different. The difference between nature-area furies and city ones is that in the wild areas, people were able to manifest discrete furies, like Bernard does frequently with Brutus. That's the real handicap Tavi has; he never had anything discrete, and had to do everything himself. In terms of lack of "finesse," it was described that Tavi had great strength, but wasn't able to do as many things at once as Kitai, who wasn't able to do things as strongly as he.

Being "cut off" from the source isn't enough to cancel out the abilities furies give a furycrafter; they have to be specifically countered. For example, to prevent Amara from escaping in the opening chapters of Furies of Calderon, she's buried up to her neck in the earth. The earth prevents her from summoning Cirrus—without being able to summon him, she can't fly. But if she was surrounded by fire, for example, she can still summon him.

In short, you're right about conflicting furies; there's no getting past that. But, because Tavi has access to all of them, he'd have to be collared to lock him down completely.

That is something I can see Nic arranging. He did, after all, have access to thorn manacles to hold Harry, so I'm sure he'd be able to whip up some similar effect.

That said, Tavi takes Badass Normal to new levels. He was the only muggle in a world of superhumans, and managed to fight Canim without the use of his furies at all, and still win, not to mention the various fights against strong furycrafters that he won with skill alone.

If he's got furycrafting, I don't see any of the three main encounters going in Nic's favor. His sword would be shattered in the opening exchanges, and that's if Tavi didn't decide to simply char him to a crisp from a distance. Even when he inevitably took to the air to escape, Tavi would be able to chase him down.

If Nic managed to capture him first, as he did Harry in Death Masks, I can absolutely see him collaring him, though, rather than keep him under running water, which would likely render all other conflicts moot.

In short, in a one-on-one fight, Tavi wins; if Nic gets the drop on him (unlikely—remember what watercrafting does for his situational awareness, and he'd sense the metal from his sword), Nic can collar him and kill him. I don't think he'd even bother trying to recruit him, either; he'd be too dangerous to keep around, unlike a poverty-stricken wizard with a host of complexes.

In chess, I give Nic the edge. Ludus is a wargame, not chess, and I think Tavi would be disappointed at the lack of a skyboard. 3D chess, on the other hand...

1080
DF Spoilers / Re: Mortal Government Knowledge of Magic
« on: July 19, 2017, 03:19:22 PM »
Well sure, just about anything is vulnerable to a sufficiently motivated Conspiracy, but how is that relevant?

In fairness, you don't really need a conspiracy to accomplish that, you just need to tell 4chan about it and let them troll it to death. There is no shortage of willing participants for pretty much any disinformation campaign I can think of. Look at the amount of faulty stories people share on Facebook that get accepted as fact, regardless of the academic rigor (or lack thereof) present in the article. It's not even malicious most of the time, just uninformed.

The one thing about the Paranet is that there are real people who talk to each other involved, and it's not just a forum. They know specific names of members in Ghost Story, and are unnerved when they don't hear anything from a particular city for some length of time (can't remember the names, nor how long it was). With actual names, faces, and personal relationships, it's harder to take the Paranet down, compared to a place like this. I could just be a particularly intelligent dromedary, and none of you would know it. On the Paranet, they would. They kind of have to in order to prevent turning it into a shopping list for anyone looking to take down talents like they did in White Night.

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