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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: adgramaine on October 05, 2010, 04:17:09 AM
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The Psychic powers in the books are fairly limited. Worse, there's no Template that fits the concept. I'm thinking above Minor Talent; something moving more towards Jean Grey or psychics from the Palladium games.
I know I'll probably end up statting out templates and powers, but I was curious to see how some of you guys might handle it.
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Well saying a charcter's powers are 'Psychic' as opposed to 'Magic' is really just color. For a psychic character Channeling (Spirit) should do fine for mimicking most Jean Grey style telekinetic effects, for mind reading though your in Third Law trouble if you're sticking to Dresden Files canon. Probably your best bet is The Sight with Soulgaze to really get into people's heads without violating the Laws of Magic, and you should also take a look at Psychometry for a good model for new minor psychic powers that don't break the Third Law. A good Empathic power could probably worked up which combined with stunts could make it almost like mind reading especially with some good interrogation and questioning maneuvers. Of course if you're just using the game as a rules set and not worrying about canon there are plenty of preexisting ways to read peoples minds in the rules already.
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I'm not sure that mega-psychics fit the "canon" setting of the world. That said, its your game so go with it.
It seems that people are generally either minor talents, and he uses them to fill in the role of real world psychics. You know, the kind that are generally considered con-artists and charlatans in our world. Just the perception, not saying one way or another about the beliefs of others. It gives a certain feel to the setting, where people are usually just prey to those few larger, nastier, supernatural monsters.
There is no reason not to be "granted psychic powers" from a sponsor though. Especially if the sponsor is not exactly up front about their true motives.
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A psion would have:
[-2] Channeling; Spirit
[-2] Ritual; Neuromancy
[-1] A Few Seconds Ahead
[-1] The Sight/Soulgaze
[-2] Senses (mindsight, sense emotions, sense magic, danger sense)
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I consider true non magic psychic powers to be perfectly acceptable for a game, because for the same reason that most people don't believe in Magic they don't believe in Psychic's whose to say the supernatural community is not just as blinded and arrogant towards the thoughts of evolved humans.
Additionally it provides a great value - psychic powers are Lawbreaker immune as they are not Magic.A big distinction that needs to be made even if you are just re-skinning channeling and ritual.
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Which offers a game-balance issue - Lawbreaker is both a story issue and a limiting factor, as the PCs can't just go magicking willy-nilly. You'd need to offer some other sort of limiting factor in exchange.
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No you don't, psychic powers would be far less flexible.
No elements to be assigned to fulfill catches, no thaumaturgic rituals, none of the scope magic normally possesses.
The balance is built in by the very concept, it all works out in the end.
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Compare a "focused practitioner" with Spirit channeling vs. a psychic with modified Spirit channeling to represent telekinesis. There's no in-game difference aside from the lack of Lawbreaker. That's what I meant.
Besides, I honestly think psychics can be represented via minor talents and focused practitioners. Channeling: spirit for telekinesis. Channeling: fire for pyrokinetics, etc.
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Plenty of in game difference from my point of view, but I think we will have to agree to disagree.
And represented sure but I don't doing that does psychics justice.Where is the fun in treating the powers of evolved humans as magic when its not ?
I just don't understand your point of view I guess.
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... Wizards live for centuries, have access to energies that may as well equate to the life-force of the planet, and can perform incredible mental and physical feats that are beyond the ken of normal mortals. How d'you know mortal magic *isn't* a result of "evolved humanity?"
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I don't, but again - Where is the fun in that?
It seems I dunno kind stupid to me for a lack of a better term to make Prof.X a wizard and what your suggesting would do precisely that.
Not everthing in the DFverse has to be hocus pocus imo.
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I dunno, I think the reason I'm hesitant to throw in X-style mutants and such is that they clash with the supernatural themes of the setting. The books say that magic is real. They never say anything about hyperevolved teenagers in spandex.
I'm a fan of the X-Men and of cryptoscience such as psychic phenomena, aliens, and the like. I just feel like the Dresdenverse isn't quite the playground for 'em.
That said, I ain't yer mama. If your game would be more fun with it, feel free. :-)
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Perhaps my example of Jean Grey was a bit off the mark from what I intended. Certainly, I would never include any level of mutants or spandex into the Dresdenverse. I agree that any use of psychic powers in the game would be a lot less impressive than the verisimilitude of wizardry. I would really like psychics to have their own place, not simply through changing the window dressing per say.
I've been playing around with a few things; maybe some sampling will give folk the basics of what I'd like to see:
Psychic Template
Musts - High Concept Phrasing (Telekinetic Bounty Hunter, or Sensitive Homemaker)
Physical (-3) or Sensitive (-3) Psionics
Supernatural Senses: (-1) i.e. emotion, thoughts, magics, psionics, corruption, faith
Options: use the Sight and/or the Soulgaze; select a Kinetic specialization (-1; which could function like Channeling without the Item Slots)
Important Skills: Conviction, Discipline, Presence, Alertness
Minimum Refresh Cost: -4
Each flavor of psionics (physical or sensitive) could provide a sort of hit list of what could be done at a base psychic energy cost (Conviction shifts), using Discipline to defend against. These might resemble Rotes at first glance; any ideas on how to make it stand on its own?
Physical Psionics: Healing Surge (3), Regeneration (4), Inner Strength (2), Death Trance (1), Ectoplasm (3), Resistance (4), Blind (3), Pain (3), Inhuman Strength (5), Inhuman Speed (5), Psychic Blade (6), Psychic Shield (6), Sleep (2), Combat Intuition (4)
Sensitive Psionics: Empathic Transmission (2), Astral Projection (6), See Aura (1), Sixth Sense (3), Perfect Memory (1), Suggestion (4), Cure Insanity (6), Insert Memory (5), Illusion (5), Possession (5), Domination (5), Mind Bond (4), Mind Wipe (6), Mind Trap (5)
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I would never include any level of mutants or spandex into the Dresdenverse.
Win!
LOL
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Except that magic in the dresdenverse is not hocus-pocus. Evocation is an act of will - the incantation is just a minor focusing aid for the wizard. Besides, there is no reason you cannot use Evocation/Thaumaturgy game mechanics with a different flavor.
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Except that magic in the dresdenverse is not hocus-pocus. Evocation is an act of will - the incantation is just a minor focusing aid for the wizard. Besides, there is no reason you cannot use Evocation/Thaumaturgy game mechanics with a different flavor.
No reason you can't, but no good reason you should if there are better alternatives.
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Oh but there are at least three different good reasons for it;
1) You cut down on new powers you have to build and your players to learn.
2) You don't have to playtest if the new powers are actually balanced.
3) Your psion character would work in any game, not just your own game that accepts homebrewing.
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1) not an issue IMO
2) Same
3)And?
Accuracy to me is more important then taking the easy way out.Its makes for a better experience in the end.
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My claim would be that 'psionics' is simply magic using a non-traditional evocation system (see the sidebar on YS253). After all, "using your mental will to manipulate the world around you" is the basic definition of both psionics and magic. Any differences are flavor text, and seems to me to be a thinly veiled attempt to be able to throw alternately-labelled spells without having to worry about the lawbreaker rules.
That said (and to repeat others) you're free to alter the world to your choosing. However, if you did add in a 'psionics' that worked a lot like magic but avoiding the consequences thereof, you'd need to balance the two. That means that the Psionics version of Evocation would need to cost more than the Magic version of Evocation. Even so, it would be best to use the same rules (in terms of calculating power levels for various effects) for both.
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No you don't, psychic powers would be far less flexible.
No elements to be assigned to fulfill catches, no thaumaturgic rituals, none of the scope magic normally possesses.
The balance is built in by the very concept, it all works out in the end.
All the balance required in this.
No reason for a higher cost.
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I would still like to push for those of us who don't feel the need to be 100% cannon for something stronger than a minor talent, but less than a wizard/magic-user. They sort of get around the lawbreaker thing, but I think they have two compensating things (at least from the literature, a-la Stephen King).
1. they lack flexibility - they're complete 1-trick ponies. A fire starter can start fires, big ones maybe, but that's it. Maybe someone else is like the Dead Zone guy, but he can't do telekineses or anything else.
2. they have some flaw (I'm not sure how to represent this? Permanent consequence). It isn't JUST a different view of magic, it has a built-in price, typically some physical/mental flaw - a rapid drop in morality, migraines, reliance on drugs to just get by, etc.
I think there are better games if you want people with lots of different psychic powers.
So, given the above, what would the template look like? I know you'all have mentioned how to twist the magic system, but I'm not well versed enough to understand what you're talking about. I'd appreciate it a lot if someone could show me what, given the above, a firestarter, telekenetic, or sensitive might be like.
BTW - I did like the other' guy's template but it seemed to broad for the Stephen-King/Scanner style psychics.
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Alrighty. Discuss the balance between the two:
an evoker that does not know fire [-3 refresh]
a psyker [-3 refresh]
Neither has rituals, neither fulfills catches, but the psyker can freely kill on a lark.
I'm glad -- though puzzled -- that you consider armor to be valid protection against psionic attacks, though.
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Hmm...
1. In the books, you get to kill with magic all the time, just not normal people. So it's not a HUGE disadvantage;
2. I'm for the Stephen King model, so psychic powers come with a price. I don't know how to put that in to game terms, but you're getting a blinding migrane, personality disorders, etc. It's not free. It's easier to loose control.
3. You can only do that one thing (but maybe that's included). I'm not for you having a group of psychic powers.
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If you want "evolved" humans, then you're in the wrong genre. Not to say you can't hack FATE to handle that genre. In fact, thats what you should do for that type of psychic powers.
If you are looking for psychic powers in the context of urban fantasy, you've already got it. Magic. But filing the serial numbers off just to be able to break the laws of magic seems a little... well, not good.
Show me the middle ground that I'm missing.
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I got an idea on this. Psionics should cost the same as magic but make this comparison;
Evocation and Thaumaturgy;
1) Starts with 3 elements out of (usually) fire, earth, water, air and spirit and access to all thaumaturgy schools
1b) Starts with rotes equal to your Lore.
2) Starts with a specialization in each field and you can get more.
3) Starts with foci/echanted items.
4) Has the danger of Lawbreaker.
5) Hexes technology.
6) Has to deal with thresholds such as circles, private homes and water.
Psionics;
1) Starts with 1 ability out of (usually) psychokinesis, telepathy, clairsentience, psychoportation and metacreativity.
1b) Starts with rotes. Beyond rotes, you need to tag a "focused" aspect to use your power.
2) Starts with a specialization in each field and you can get more.
3) No foci/echanted items
4) Has no danger of Lawbreaker.
5) Does not hex technology.
6) Does not have to deal with thresholds but technology can detect and, for some rare tech, influence it.
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I would even say that psychics would have to deal with a threshold.
As for some kind of hurt to make things more balanced, maybe a Mental consequence, resisted by a Discipline roll, if the psychic gains more shifts than needed for an effect....? I also like the idea mentioned about having to tag an aspect on a target in order to affect them.
I could even split the template, offering a 'minor' psychic compared to more of a mental powerhouse.
And we're not even mentioning in game balances, like maybe the Fae are attracted to psychics for some reason, and it is a reoccurring trouble for them? Thoughts...?