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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: BrainFireBob on October 01, 2020, 03:48:59 PM
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Harry Dresden and Elaine (Mallory?) are potential starborns seized by Justin DuMorne and put through combat-focused training to become bruisers.
Minor Battle Ground reference: Mab notes that Harry is a born weapon, with implication that it is related to his starborn status.
Thought: Justin "disappeared" them under Council aegis to create starborn weapons for the White Council.
Additional posits:
1) The Senior Council has dithered on Harry because he's what they have
2) Harry's killing of DuMorne is less a matter of "DuMorne was rogue" and more a matter of "He was trained as a weapon and DuMorne went too far."
3) DuMorne maybe did betray the Council, but the Council doesn't know enough details to know that (ie, the Walker summoning)
4) Margaret Le Fay's solicitation of Lea as godmother was the fly in the Council's ointment
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Interesting. I’m going to have to re-read the Morgan microfiction as I think it might contradict this but I’m not sure
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Minor Battle Ground reference: Mab notes that Harry is a born weapon, with implication that it is related to his starborn status.
Fits with what Lea revealed to Harry in Ghost Story, that Justin adopted him and Elaine to train up as "enforcers."
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Read it... you judge:
https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/morgan-microfiction-rpg-art-and-more
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I'm essentially positing this was a Senior Council decision, and that Morgan wasn't privy. In fact, the very fact that Margaret had engaged Morgan so he was sniffing around Harry may have been why the SC sent him into a kind of witness protection.
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Read it... you judge:
https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/morgan-microfiction-rpg-art-and-more
I think it reflects incompetence on the part of the White Council. For a bunch of supposedly wise older wizards they elected to blind themselves to a lot of realities in favor of the status quo until it rises up and bites them in the ass.
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I still think Margaret and her Dark Council (because it might be different than the Black Council) plotted to birth a Starborn, and Harry is the result. I think she backed out and ran, and when things got bad and she knew she was going to die, she reached out to Morgan to watch over Harry from a distance, since she didn't trust Eb. Then the rest was like we know it, until the Senior Council realized what they had upon Harry's eventual capture, and decided they wanted the Starborn for themselves.
But I could also see where the Senior Council decided to hide Harry from Morgan, if they knew Morgan has sworn to protect the child. Wizard promises are kept, and that would compromise his ability to be the brute they might need. So they cut him out and handed the operation over to DuMorne.
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But I could also see where the Senior Council decided to hide Harry from Morgan, if they knew Morgan has sworn to protect the child. Wizard promises are kept, and that would compromise his ability to be the brute they might need. So they cut him out and handed the operation over to DuMorne.
Which would show more incompetence, them having no clue that DuMorne had gone warlock.
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I still think Margaret and her Dark Council (because it might be different than the Black Council) plotted to birth a Starborn, and Harry is the result. I think she backed out and ran, and when things got bad and she knew she was going to die, she reached out to Morgan to watch over Harry from a distance, since she didn't trust Eb. Then the rest was like we know it, until the Senior Council realized what they had upon Harry's eventual capture, and decided they wanted the Starborn for themselves.
But I could also see where the Senior Council decided to hide Harry from Morgan, if they knew Morgan has sworn to protect the child. Wizard promises are kept, and that would compromise his ability to be the brute they might need. So they cut him out and handed the operation over to DuMorne.
I think Margaret went hunting for a de facto saint/incorruptible character of a man to father her child, and did *something* to guarantee Harry inheriting his father's nature. That it was too late to change the plan, or she took advantage of the original plan, but then deliberately made Harry ungovernable.
It's not every man that can resist a Fallen. Harry seems to have that of his father. The magical focus is on his mother- the powerful, dangerous, wild Margaret Le Fay. He's got that too. But the key ingredient in Harry-stew is the great souled man who sired him.
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I think Margaret went hunting for a de facto saint/incorruptible character of a man to father her child, and did *something* to guarantee Harry inheriting his father's nature. That it was too late to change the plan, or she took advantage of the original plan, but then deliberately made Harry ungovernable.
It's not every man that can resist a Fallen. Harry seems to have that of his father. The magical focus is on his mother- the powerful, dangerous, wild Margaret Le Fay. He's got that too. But the key ingredient in Harry-stew is the great souled man who sired him.
What is striking is how few actually know the extent of Harry's will or that he did something no human has ever been able to do, resist the shadow of one of the Fallen. What is more, change it and have it sacrifice itself for him. Only Uriel really knew, it took a long time for Michael to believe it possible let alone that Harry was successful doing it. If the Council knew that much, perhaps they'd be less afraid that Harry had gone all monster on them.
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To be fair, as Harry said to Michael in ... Small Favor, I think, do we actually know that he (Harry) is the only one to have ever successfully beaten a Shadow? It isn't like the Nickelheads are going to advertise any such failures...
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Which would show more incompetence, them having no clue that DuMorne had gone warlock.
Not exactly. If I recall correctly, McCoy knew DuMorne was bad news. He may have known all about the theoretical Dark Council plot from that dinner party, and might have informed the Senior Council.
The Senior Council could have pulled DuMorne in, told him that they know all about his activity, but that they need someone other than McCoy to be their bad guy. DuMorne is then put under the Doom and is monitored by someone other than McCoy and Morgan (Simon, perhaps?) as he teaches Harry.
Then DuMorne decided to go rogue, tried to enthrall, and things fell apart. The Council got there right quick, McCoy said enough of this crap, and then poof, history as we know it.
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He was probably working for a cabal on the Senior Council Langtrey, La Fortier and Petrovich. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. This suggests Langtrey was behind the murders of the other two, Peabody was his cat’s paw against La Fortier, and got him to whammy Luccio. He betrayed Petrovich to the Reds. Du Morne was apprenticed to Petrovich former Warden a perfect choice if one was creating weapons.
Ah! But you say Langtrey was relieved when Peabody was exposed, but think how Harry did it, it would have been nigh on impossible for him to defend Peabody (Mai sided with Mouse) and politically it saved his public bacon, he hadn’t expected Morgan’s intervention, and that created a witness who had to be silenced, hence the manhunt. Peabody nearly escaped, except another intervention by Morgan ended him, and it was the plan all along.
The expulsion plan now is to keep Harry away from the White Council, maybe, because Arthur Langtrey is afraid Harry is going to put everything together leading to his exposure as.......Cowl.
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He was probably working for a cabal on the Senior Council Langtrey, La Fortier and Petrovich. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. This suggests Langtrey was behind the murders of the other two, Peabody was his cat’s paw against La Fortier, and got him to whammy Luccio. He betrayed Petrovich to the Reds. Du Morne was apprenticed to Petrovich former Warden a perfect choice if one was creating weapons.
Ah! But you say Langtrey was relieved when Peabody was exposed, but think how Harry did it, it would have been nigh on impossible for him to defend Peabody (Mai sided with Mouse) and politically it saved his public bacon, he hadn’t expected Morgan’s intervention, and that created a witness who had to be silenced, hence the manhunt. Peabody nearly escaped, except another intervention by Morgan ended him, and it was the plan all along.
The expulsion plan now is to keep Harry away from the White Council, maybe, because Arthur Langtrey is afraid Harry is going to put everything together leading to his exposure as.......Cowl.
Except that Listens in BG seemed to be referring to just the sort of conspiracy we're talking about, which means he was in the know as well. Drakul teased that the White Council bred him, and it was Harry's inquiries into that which prompted the response of "I need a Senior Council consensus."
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Except that Listens in BG seemed to be referring to just the sort of conspiracy we're talking about, which means he was in the know as well. Drakul teased that the White Council bred him, and it was Harry's inquiries into that which prompted the response of "I need a Senior Council consensus."
You don’t think there was only one conspiracy afoot? The Senior Council may be split between the Black and Grey Councils and each has their agenda all pretty shitty in relation to Harry.
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Not exactly. If I recall correctly, McCoy knew DuMorne was bad news. He may have known all about the theoretical Dark Council plot from that dinner party, and might have informed the Senior Council.
Well, he did call Justin an SOB, but at the same time, if they knew, why didn't they pull strings to get the kids away from him? As in not allowing the adoption to go through. However to be fair, Justin didn't say anything to Harry or Elaine about the White Council or the Seven Laws. I'd also like to know the full story as to why Elaine has avoided the White Council.
What is odd about this is Harry has always seemed to admire the White Council even though they've treated him like he was radio active for most of his adult life.
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You don’t think there was only one conspiracy afoot? The Senior Council may be split between the Black and Grey Councils and each has their agenda all pretty shitty in relation to Harry.
I don't doubt there are numerous factions with their own agendas on the Senior Council. But Listens and Arthur would seem to be on opposite factions. If Drakul said "bred you" and Harry said "huh?" and Listens said "i don't know", then that's one thing. But he said "we'll tell you later, maybe", which implies he knows. So if it was a sub-plot, it blew up spectacularly, and didn't cost them plotters their positions. Which you think would be the case, especially with them jeopardizing McCoy's grandson without his knowledge.
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I don't doubt there are numerous factions with their own agendas on the Senior Council. But Listens and Arthur would seem to be on opposite factions. If Drakul said "bred you" and Harry said "huh?" and Listens said "i don't know", then that's one thing. But he said "we'll tell you later, maybe", which implies he knows. So if it was a sub-plot, it blew up spectacularly, and didn't cost them plotters their positions. Which you think would be the case, especially with them jeopardizing McCoy's grandson without his knowledge.
I am thinking a simpler answer, if one has a destiny, and supposedly Harry does, and knows the details, one acts differently in order to try and fit the destiny. Thus screwing up whatever that destiny is, so it is best that he doesn't know and finds out about it little by little as he goes along.
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McCoy may have wanted Harry someplace safe where even Eb himself couldn't find him. Didn't he do the same thing to his own daughter? So it's possible, even likely, that Ebenezer knew that Harry had been disappeared, had thought someone appropriate had been chosen to teach Harry how fulfil his magic potential. He probably didn't know it was Justine DuMorne or if he had known, might not have known that Justin had gone bad.
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McCoy may have wanted Harry someplace safe where even Eb himself couldn't find him. Didn't he do the same thing to his own daughter? So it's possible, even likely, that Ebenezer knew that Harry had been disappeared, had thought someone appropriate had been chosen to teach Harry how fulfil his magic potential. He probably didn't know it was Justine DuMorne or if he had known, might not have known that Justin had gone bad.
I don't think Eb is that naive.. Though Justin, a retired Warden, in on the kill of Kemmler would be considered a man of sterling reputation, very suitable as mentor to a young star born. Eb knew how badly he screwed up with Margaret, so he went along with it, and didn't care to look more closely into what really was happening. But there is evidence that Outsiders were pulling strings even back then, because in Ghost Story, Harry is shocked to find out that it wasn't Justine who called up HWWB, though we don't know just who that was, yet.. It could have even been Peabody even that far back manipulating things.
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He was probably working for a cabal on the Senior Council Langtrey, La Fortier and Petrovich. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. This suggests Langtrey was behind the murders of the other two, Peabody was his cat’s paw against La Fortier, and got him to whammy Luccio. He betrayed Petrovich to the Reds. Du Morne was apprenticed to Petrovich former Warden a perfect choice if one was creating weapons.
Ah! But you say Langtrey was relieved when Peabody was exposed, but think how Harry did it, it would have been nigh on impossible for him to defend Peabody (Mai sided with Mouse) and politically it saved his public bacon, he hadn’t expected Morgan’s intervention, and that created a witness who had to be silenced, hence the manhunt. Peabody nearly escaped, except another intervention by Morgan ended him, and it was the plan all along.
The expulsion plan now is to keep Harry away from the White Council, maybe, because Arthur Langtrey is afraid Harry is going to put everything together leading to his exposure as.......Cowl.
Damn.
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He was probably working for a cabal on the Senior Council Langtrey, La Fortier and Petrovich. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. This suggests Langtrey was behind the murders of the other two, Peabody was his cat’s paw against La Fortier, and got him to whammy Luccio. He betrayed Petrovich to the Reds. Du Morne was apprenticed to Petrovich former Warden a perfect choice if one was creating weapons.
Ah! But you say Langtrey was relieved when Peabody was exposed, but think how Harry did it, it would have been nigh on impossible for him to defend Peabody (Mai sided with Mouse) and politically it saved his public bacon, he hadn’t expected Morgan’s intervention, and that created a witness who had to be silenced, hence the manhunt. Peabody nearly escaped, except another intervention by Morgan ended him, and it was the plan all along.
The expulsion plan now is to keep Harry away from the White Council, maybe, because Arthur Langtrey is afraid Harry is going to put everything together leading to his exposure as.......Cowl.
I don't think so. The entire senior council was fighting the RC at the same time Cowl was in Chicago trying to do the darkhallow iirc