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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: psuedonym on February 03, 2021, 10:58:53 PM
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I have no evidence for this other than jim likes to mess with harry but is it possible, since they were at the time lovers, elaine could have been at the very early stages of pregnancy when justin died? If she was enthralled to justin what effect would that have on the baby?
We have see nothing to suggest this but every time we see elaine shes working, would you bring a small child to a dangerous job?
Im probably wrong but it would mess with harry.
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Harry killed Justin when he was 16. Presumably he and Elaine did not have any sexy fun times after the killing When Harry was 34, the presumptive H+E offspring would have been 18. If there was a child, they would be ~23, and unless they have power, out of the picture.
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Harry killed Justin when he was 16. Presumably he and Elaine did not have any sexy fun times after the killing When Harry was 34, the presumptive H+E offspring would have been 18. If there was a child, they would be ~23, and unless they have power, out of the picture.
Any age Jim wants. We do not know how much time Elaine spend in Summer versus here on earth.
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I have no evidence for this other than jim likes to mess with harry but is it possible, since they were at the time lovers, elaine could have been at the very early stages of pregnancy when justin died? If she was enthralled to justin what effect would that have on the baby?
We have see nothing to suggest this but every time we see elaine shes working, would you bring a small child to a dangerous job?
Im probably wrong but it would mess with harry.
Kumori..... Perhaps Justin made his move he did when he realized Elaine was pregnant.
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Personally I think that we're pretty much done with Children. Harry has one that Jim can endanger whenever he needs Harry to do something he wouldn't do, so any more would be superfluous.
Kumori..... Perhaps Justin made his move he did when he realized Elaine was pregnant.
I stand by my theory that Justin moved from regular old-fashioned brainwashing to enthralling because he found out that HHWBehind was coming to kill him and so he needed his pet starborn ready now rather than later.
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Personally I think that we're pretty much done with Children. Harry has one that Jim can endanger whenever he needs Harry to do something he wouldn't do, so any more would be superfluous.
You have said it. Now we get endless theories about the triplet Harry fathered with Elaine.
I stand by my theory that Justin moved from regular old-fashioned brainwashing to enthralling because he found out that HHWBehind was coming to kill him and so he needed his pet starborn ready now rather than later.
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Harry has one that Jim can endanger whenever he needs Harry to do something he wouldn't do,
Harry has two children. One he had with Susan, one he had with Lash.
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Harry has two children. One he had with Susan, one he had with Lash.
Yeah, but BG proved that Dresden doesn't care about her. The entire battle he was worried about his Daughter (singular). He never once thought about his daughters.
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Yeah, but BG proved that Dresden doesn't care about her. The entire battle he was worried about his Daughter (singular). He never once thought about his daughters.
His other daughter is far less vulnerable.
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His other daughter is far less vulnerable.
Still no excuse for not even having a stray thought about her during all of Battle Ground.
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Still no excuse for not even having a stray thought about her during all of Battle Ground.
But whose fault is that. Harry or Jim?
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But whose fault is that. Harry or Jim?
We'll see when Twelve Months rolls around.
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Just what the series needs, another kid.
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Just what the series needs, another kid.
And that's the best argument there is against a third kid, Jim has already griped about the issues that Maggie causes with sticking to an outline that originally involved a childless Harry so why introduce another kid?
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And that's the best argument there is against a third kid, Jim has already griped about the issues that Maggie causes with sticking to an outline that originally involved a childless Harry so why introduce another kid?
Because Mab explicitly said she wants Harry and Lara to have one. (Or was it more than one)?
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Because Mab explicitly said she wants Harry and Lara to have one. (Or was it more than one)?
Explicitly? I don't recall that. I do get that impression from the end of Battle Ground but I don't think she actually said it outright.
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Because Mab explicitly said she wants Harry and Lara to have one. (Or was it more than one)?
Mab didn't say anything about kids. She wants the wedding to cement the alliance and said Harry has 12 months for his feelings on the matter to change.
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Just what the series needs, another kid.
Agreed. It would be like Cousin Oliver in the Brady Bunch.
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Explicitly? I don't recall that. I do get that impression from the end of Battle Ground but I don't think she actually said it outright.
Mab said “The fusion of bloodlines is how these things are generally arranged,” so I guess she called for it implicitly.
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Mab said “The fusion of bloodlines is how these things are generally arranged,” so I guess she called for it implicitly.
Kings and Queens were married for the rights to call upon help from another nation, and that was before any child was conceived. I believe they considered just the marriage a fusion of bloodlines.
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Kings and Queens were married for the rights to call upon help from another nation, and that was before any child was conceived. I believe they considered just the marriage a fusion of bloodlines.
Yes but the offspring is how you really seal the deal. A child born of two leaders is not really a leader of one nation, or another but both equally. So it's a way to really form a true binding between the nations.
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Yes but the offspring is how you really seal the deal. A child born of two leaders is not really a leader of one nation, or another but both equally. So it's a way to really form a true binding between the nations.
True, but the way Mab talked about doing the job herself if she could, she isn't in that train of thought. A child isn't what she wants between them. Just an alliance between the courts.
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True, but the way Mab talked about doing the job herself if she could, she isn't in that train of thought. A child isn't what she wants between them. Just an alliance between the courts.
Or that was exactly the reason why she could not. Changing her sex is bad for her magic.
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I raised this myself several years ago.
Elaine went to Summer for protection, if she stayed in the Never Never she and any child would require mortal food and drink as well as protection, incurring a substantial debt. Firstborn is the gold standard (just ask lea), so she could have traded any child for that and the child’s continued protection.
Aurora may have wanted the child as a future Summer Knight, to balance out Harry, who clearly outpowers the current Summer Knight, and that much is clearer since BG. It always took me that Aurora took her daughters death at Harry’s hand so well. Perhaps because she has Harry’s son and part of that deal was not to harm him?
I wonder if when we see a new Summer Knight Harry takes an instant dislike to him, because he is just like Harry, who only finds out the truth after each tries to kill each other, and he pulls something similar to what Harry did on Eb about Thomas. “Harry, I am your son”.
Whatever the truth we have not heard the full story regarding Elaine.
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Harry killed Aurora and Titania, Aurora’s mother did not take it that well.
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I raised this myself several years ago.
Elaine went to Summer for protection, if she stayed in the Never Never she and any child would require mortal food and drink as well as protection, incurring a substantial debt. Firstborn is the gold standard (just ask lea), so she could have traded any child for that and the child’s continued protection.
Aurora may have wanted the child as a future Summer Knight, to balance out Harry, who clearly outpowers the current Summer Knight, and that much is clearer since BG. It always took me that Aurora took her daughters death at Harry’s hand so well. Perhaps because she has Harry’s son and part of that deal was not to harm him?
I wonder if when we see a new Summer Knight Harry takes an instant dislike to him, because he is just like Harry, who only finds out the truth after each tries to kill each other, and he pulls something similar to what Harry did on Eb about Thomas. “Harry, I am your son”.
Whatever the truth we have not heard the full story regarding Elaine.
Titania did not take it well.. She was on the verge of madness
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Titania did not take it well.. She was on the verge of madness
She took it well enough to not smite Harry when pulling Aurora's corpse out of his arms and that's about as well as can be expected from anyone.
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She took it well enough to not smite Harry when pulling Aurora's corpse out of his arms and that's about as well as can be expected from anyone.
Could she have in that moment? Free will vs Mantle? I don't know if in that moment she was capable or not.
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Harry has two children. One he had with Susan, one he had with Lash.
Yeah, but BG proved that Dresden doesn't care about her. The entire battle he was worried about his Daughter (singular). He never once thought about his daughters.
I wonder if Jim has thought this through. If he has, then I think it's logical to guess that this will bite Harry on the ass sometime in the future. Sooner or later Bonnea should notice that Harry doesn't treat her the same way that he treats Maggie and the results of this won't be good. All I remember Harry saying to Bonea in Peace Talks was agreeing with her when she said that pancakes are inanimate. It was an impersonal and unemotional interaction.
So, I conclude that either Harry doesn't know how he should raise a spirit of intellect, and this emotionally paralyzes Harry's thoughts and actions about Bonea, or (and I really don't like saying this) it's really sloppy writing on Jim's part; and I doubt that or at least I really want to doubt it. Jim went to a lot of trouble to create Harry's spirit daughter so I think he must have a plan or general idea where he eventually wants to take this new character. Also, consider that most of the major characters in Dresden Files don't get a nice smooth path to follow. So Bonea's bumpy road could start with Harry being; at best, an ambivalent father to her.
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I would hope that Bonea (Shame on giving your child a pun for a name Harry, that’s child abuse) during Twelve Months is able to manifest an ectoplasm body around her skull, making Harry reassess his relationship with her, especially if that body reminds him of Murphy.
Bonea was made out of the love Harry felt for the women in his life, a physical Bonea would be the only child he and Murphy would have together.
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Bonnie is still a spirit of air. She is like Bob, she won't have free will or experience feelings the way a human would.
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Bonnie is still a spirit of air. She is like Bob, she won't have free will or experience feelings the way a human would.
Human exceptionalism. The next step is saying that Bonnie’s feelings are worth less and that you can just eat her.
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Bonnie is still a spirit of air. She is like Bob, she won't have free will or experience feelings the way a human would.
Bob showed free will in DB, when Cowl put down the skull. And he has shown human emotion also. Like his fear of Mab. Or his fear of the Titan. Or his happiness for new paperbacks. Bob is like the genie that grants wishes, he is controlled by who holds the lamp.
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I would hope that Bonea (Shame on giving your child a pun for a name Harry, that’s child abuse) during Twelve Months is able to manifest an ectoplasm body around her skull, making Harry reassess his relationship with her, especially if that body reminds him of Murphy.
Bonea was made out of the love Harry felt for the women in his life, a physical Bonea would be the only child he and Murphy would have together.
Jim did that, not Harry. Bonea is an uncommon Scottish name for Bonnie.
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Yeah, but BG proved that Dresden doesn't care about her. The entire battle he was worried about his Daughter (singular). He never once thought about his daughters.
There is a difference. Maggie is mortal, and more vulnerable. Bonea is not mortal, or even close to as vulnerable.
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Bob showed free will in DB, when Cowl put down the skull. And he has shown human emotion also. Like his fear of Mab. Or his fear of the Titan. Or his happiness for new paperbacks. Bob is like the genie that grants wishes, he is controlled by who holds the lamp.
Free will is a funny thing in the Dresden verse. According to Bob himself he does not have it. That does not mean he is not an autonomous entity making his own decisions. It just means those decisions are not free willed.
Free willed as defined by Jim, not necessarily something like free will as defined by someone else in this reality.
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Free will is a funny thing in the Dresden verse. According to Bob himself he does not have it. That does not mean he is not an autonomous entity making his own decisions. It just means those decisions are not free willed.
Free willed as defined by Jim, not necessarily something like free will as defined by someone else in this reality.
It may not be exactly free will either in Bob's case, when Cowl put the scull down, he no longer technically had possession of it.. That created a loop hole free will wise for Bob to help Harry.
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Does an AI have Free Will? A difficult question even in our reality.
I think Bob is a sort of magical AI, and he has Will. But it isn't Free.
So what is Free? That's not clear either here or in the Dresden Files, but in terms of the latter I would say it comes down to the ability to change yourself, your very nature, which by definition (of the Dresden verse) changes reality. We know that Choice spawns universes (in an Amber-style broad-spectrum). Bob cannot do this, and nor can most supernatural beings.
But that doesn't mean that Bob is mindless. It just means he can't stop being what he is. Only a Free Will, a mortal Will, can change him. Which is precisely why he takes on the personality of and is loyal to the owner - with some clear exceptions. It's obviously complex, and Harry's naming of Bob I think helped shape him more than any other since Kemmler.
So Bob can make decisions in line with his nature, his "core programming" if you like, but cannot act outside those parameters.
Edit:
With regard to the original question posed by the OP. I do think it's possible that Harry could have a third child eventually, and l wondered similarly to you if Elaine might be the mother. I feel like the next child will be male, and similar to Mordred of Arthurian legend, he will eventually try and kill Harry (and perhaps succeed - although as we know there are levels to the whole death thing).
I now more subscribe to the theory that several others have mentioned in that it will be his child with Lara. A resentful, angry being like Thomas. Bred to kill him by Lara, and to rule both the White Court and be a power in the Winter Court (like the Erlking or Vadderung). It fits a lot of tropes, and it would be a good move for Lara long term. A means to control Harry and eventually defeat him if necessary. I suspect this child could well be stronger than Harry too. And the Child's downfall will be Maggie, of course. Or alternatively, Jim will have him join Team Dresden at the end and all will be well. Depends on how dark Jim goes.
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Well, thankfully Jim said no more kids for Harry. They are too much of a complication to fit in the story. He's already having enough of an issue with Maggie
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Does an AI have Free Will? A difficult question even in our reality.
I think Bob is a sort of magical AI, and he has Will. But it isn't Free.
So what is Free? That's not clear either here or in the Dresden Files, but in terms of the latter I would say it comes down to the ability to change yourself, your very nature, which by definition (of the Dresden verse) changes reality. We know that Choice spawns universes (in an Amber-style broad-spectrum). Bob cannot do this, and nor can most supernatural beings.
But that doesn't mean that Bob is mindless. It just means he can't stop being what he is. Only a Free Will, a mortal Will, can change him. Which is precisely why he takes on the personality of and is loyal to the owner - with some clear exceptions. It's obviously complex, and Harry's naming of Bob I think helped shape him more than any other since Kemmler.
So Bob can make decisions in line with his nature, his "core programming" if you like, but cannot act outside those parameters.
Edit:
With regard to the original question posed by the OP. I do think it's possible that Harry could have a third child eventually, and l wondered similarly to you if Elaine might be the mother. I feel like the next child will be male, and similar to Mordred of Arthurian legend, he will eventually try and kill Harry (and perhaps succeed - although as we know there are levels to the whole death thing).
I now more subscribe to the theory that several others have mentioned in that it will be his child with Lara. A resentful, angry being like Thomas. Bred to kill him by Lara, and to rule both the White Court and be a power in the Winter Court (like the Erlking or Vadderung). It fits a lot of tropes, and it would be a good move for Lara long term. A means to control Harry and eventually defeat him if necessary. I suspect this child could well be stronger than Harry too. And the Child's downfall will be Maggie, of course. Or alternatively, Jim will have him join Team Dresden at the end and all will be well. Depends on how dark Jim goes.
Or Harry kills him, that is a classic one: https://bardmythologies.com/the-son-of-cuchulainn/
But no more children for Harry.
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Well, thankfully Jim said no more kids for Harry. They are too much of a complication to fit in the story. He's already having enough of an issue with Maggie
He has. But he has changed his mind before too. Guess we can wait and see. If Dresden wasn't doing the raising of his next child I suspect it might be not as much of an issue as Harry. Maggie's issue as a character in the narrative are due to her being a handbrake on the main character's movements etc. So it's possible a "new" child wouldn't have those issues. I do agree that Harry won't be raising any more kids any time soon.
Or Harry kills him, that is a classic one: https://bardmythologies.com/the-son-of-cuchulainn/
But no more children for Harry.
Could go either way...but I feel if Harry has to kill his own child he'd probably kill himself and give himself eternal torment, supernatural rules be damned (pun intended). He's already so emotional about Maggie, and we saw how having to kill Susan affected him, if he had to kill one of his kids (particularly a mostly human one)... it would be BAD.
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He has. But he has changed his mind before too. Guess we can wait and see. If Dresden wasn't doing the raising of his next child I suspect it might be not as much of an issue as Harry. Maggie's issue as a character in the narrative are due to her being a handbrake on the main character's movements etc. So it's possible a "new" child wouldn't have those issues. I do agree that Harry won't be raising any more kids any time soon.
Could go either way...but I feel if Harry has to kill his own child he'd probably kill himself and give himself eternal torment, supernatural rules be damned (pun intended). He's already so emotional about Maggie, and we saw how having to kill Susan affected him, if he had to kill one of his kids (particularly a mostly human one)... it would be BAD.
Yes that is the whole point of the story.
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I don't see another kid for Harry. But if we were to see another, the way I would like it would be when Harry goes into the mirror universe, he finds out that his alternate universe counterpart has a kid with Molly or Elaine. If by one of them, it would raise the chances of the kid having magic. Then good Harry plays father figure because alt Harry hasn't been around, teaches kid things, and by the end of the book, leaves kid to defend his universe with the help of allies that were enemies, like alt Murphy and SI.
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I don't see another kid for Harry. But if we were to see another, the way I would like it would be when Harry goes into the mirror universe, he finds out that his alternate universe counterpart has a kid with Molly or Elaine. If by one of them, it would raise the chances of the kid having magic. Then good Harry plays father figure because alt Harry hasn't been around, teaches kid things, and by the end of the book, leaves kid to defend his universe with the help of allies that were enemies, like alt Murphy and SI.
Yeah, he already has two too many kids, and I think there are about three too many star borns out there. Jim runs the risk of going to too many wells too many times, eventually they run dry. Another danger of stringing the series out too long, stuff gets reused and gets stale.