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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: mremann on August 29, 2011, 05:53:09 PM

Title: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mremann on August 29, 2011, 05:53:09 PM: I am planning on running a Dresden Files game later this year (there will be Podcast of the game, web site can be found here www.cityontheriver.wordpress.com (http://www.cityontheriver.wordpress.com), not much there at the moment but a bunch of links) which will be set in Bristol, England. I was wondering how different Britain would be as setting for a Dresden Files game. What sort of relationship do the various supernatural factions have with one another? What about other supernatural factions, anything that would be good as UK specific?
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: wicked0truth on August 29, 2011, 06:00:37 PM: To be honest I can't see their being too much difference, except when it comes to firearms etc.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: jeditigger on August 29, 2011, 06:03:49 PM: Rick Neal is one of the best DFRPG DMs I have read, blog-wise, and he does settings outside of the US. Check his blog: http://www.rickneal.ca/. Or ask him questions...he's a nice fellow. :)
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: DFJunkie on August 29, 2011, 06:08:52 PM: Well there isn't any cannon, but you could make some assumptions based on what we know about the various factions.
The White Council is headquartered in Edinburgh and a lot of WoJ goes on about how Eurocentric they are, so it's probable they'll have a bigger footprint in the UK than they do in the colonies.

The Red Court, based primarily in South and Central America, will probably have a smaller presence in the UK, but the White Court may take up the slack.

Since the Sidhe figure very prominent in UK folklore it's probable they have a higher profile there as well.

Still, all those considerations are secondary to what you want for your game.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: ways and means on August 29, 2011, 06:11:55 PM: I imagine there would probably be a stronger white council presence with Edinburgh being so close and the longer tradition of the occult in Britain (not to mention the fact the Merlin and good number of the Stronger Wizards in the Council happen to be from the UK). I also reckon there might well be a stronger black court presence in the UK.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Thaumologist on August 29, 2011, 07:36:48 PM: A complete lack of all the Native American/Incan/equivalent factions, and therefore possibly characters. However, many more faeries and such. As previously mentioned, weapon laws are vastly different - no guns, knives, swords, or anything that could be construed as a weapon (make sure you hold onto your nunchuck receipts on the way home folks, and yes, there is a story there).

Cities are built differently - many American cities are either built up from the native civilizations mentioned above, or created when the European settlers came over. British ones have developed for much longer than the settlers'. Building styles will be different, town layouts will be different, and so on.

No constitution. We have laws, and they're built on... I actually don't know, but the closest thing we have is the Magna Carta (I think, never was a history guy).

CASTLES!
I remember having a conversation on here a while back with whoever it was had a lion for his DP about holidaying in the UK. Distances seem bigger, as we have a smaller country. This means that we don't have as awesome railways and such. We also have a longer (written) recorded history, being Europe and so on.

We also have nice tea, but our coffee (for the most part) is near undrinkable.

Umm.... That's me out of things I guess. Hope it helped.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 30, 2011, 03:55:56 AM: Quote from: wicked0truth on August 29, 2011, 06:00:37 PM
To be honest I can't see their being too much difference, except when it comes to firearms etc.

The "etc" covers a good bit of ground though. The number of cameras around alone could present significant to extreme challenges to players and baddies alike.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 30, 2011, 04:01:06 AM: Quote from: Thaumologist on August 29, 2011, 07:36:48 PM
We also have nice tea, but our coffee (for the most part) is near undrinkable.

So is ours, honestly. Start drinking actual good coffee on a regular basis and Folgers and company will start tasting like acidic garbage.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Rubycon on August 30, 2011, 06:25:25 AM: First thing I think is history. Great Brittain has over 4000 years of history - not all of it in the name of the Empire, but with celts, druids, saxons, arthur-sagas and so on. That's a lot to dig.
Second, I would assume that the relationship between mortals and faeries is different than in the new lands over the pond. This can be twofold, as older faeries expect a certain treatment and the old ways are getting lost in GB, too.
Third, it is right that GB has no native americans (or only a tiny fraction of immigrants). But they have varied ethnic and cultural heritage, from scots and welsh and picts to the aforementioned saxons. That's a lot to dig, too.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mremann on August 30, 2011, 09:30:38 AM: Thanks for all of the replies so far.

A lot of the stuff already discussed were things that I has already thought about, just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t missing something big that I should be including.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Thaumologist on August 30, 2011, 09:31:48 AM: Oh!

Security cameras!

I have no idea what it's like in America, but I know loadsa people complain about how many security cameras / speeding cameras there are everywhere.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mremann on August 30, 2011, 09:48:23 AM: Not as bad as some people make it out to be, but most urban centers have a fairly decent coverage of CCTV cameras. So depending on where you are, there is a good chance that anything you do will be caught on camera. But since CCTV covers highly populated areas, there will be plenty of witnesses to anything you might do.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Rubycon on August 30, 2011, 09:48:44 AM: Play a wizard!!! ;D
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: NicholasQuinn on August 30, 2011, 11:22:07 AM: We've also less (or at least, less visible) Police Officers now, having instead implemented less trained, and less equiped, Police Community Support Officers, whom seem to have less authority. I'd imagine that they're now less of an active grenade to throw into a supernatural problem, and more, something to smirk at - at least, on a simple meet-and-greet, hunting humans basis, naturally all the normal ramifications can follow. The PCSOs deal with less serious crimes, and maintain an active patroling presence in a some areas. Not to mention our Police Officers do not carry sidearms, well, except from those in certain roles with extra training. Thats not to say PCSOs do not play a valuable role, they do. It just highlights one way in which I'd imagine law enforcement in Britain is quite different to the U.S.A.

Just something to think about if a player wishes to go the "Murphy" route of character. Mine is a very basic, and likely very ignorant perspective on PCSOs/PCOs, but one shared by a lot of the local populace.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Matharic on August 30, 2011, 04:11:44 PM: Bristol has been large city from the 13th Century onwards and an important port historically, it was England's third or fourth largest city when the Black death struck in 1348-9. Today it has a fairly good university and two professional football teams. What sort of information are you looking for?
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on August 30, 2011, 04:41:08 PM: A good starting point for a mystic Britain could be Kate Griffin's Matthew Swift series (it starts with 'A Madness of Angels'). Her setting isn't the DV (no Wardens, different types of magic users, lots of spirit and 'gods') but it does use mystic themes that fit well in Britain.

And the books are well researched. For example, until I read the most recent one I had never heard of the Mohock (sometimes spelled Mohawk) attacks in London. Seeing a reference to them sent me to wiki where I learned that there was a gang by that name roving London - possibly made up of bored rich boys because it never robbed its victims. The Mohocks were into beating, mutilations, and raping woman but they never took money - a history fact that begs for a supernatural explanation. Kate Griffin gave one, but another would probably exist in the DV.

As for CC cameras, anything that can glamour or has a human seeming wouldn't be bothered by them and the operators would soon get used to how CCs keep going down around supernaturally charged places. "Cameras 45 - 49 are always going on the blink; maybe some weird magnet field from the power lines?" - would be the normal reaction, but you could have a PC who monitored the cameras and who had seen too much to ignore (a bit like Butters' backstory).

Richard

Richard
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mremann on August 30, 2011, 09:25:13 PM: Quote from: Matharic on August 30, 2011, 04:11:44 PM
Bristol has been large city from the 13th Century onwards and an important port historically, it was England's third or fourth largest city when the Black death struck in 1348-9. Today it has a fairly good university and two professional football teams. What sort of information are you looking for?

I'm a local, one of the reason why I choose Bristol ;D

edit: Two good Universities actually, don't forget U.W.E.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 31, 2011, 01:16:58 AM: Quote from: Richard_Chilton on August 30, 2011, 04:41:08 PM
As for CC cameras, anything that can glamour or has a human seeming wouldn't be bothered by them and the operators would soon get used to how CCs keep going down around supernaturally charged places. "Cameras 45 - 49 are always going on the blink; maybe some weird magnet field from the power lines?" - would be the normal reaction, but you could have a PC who monitored the cameras and who had seen too much to ignore (a bit like Butters' backstory).

Still worth making note of though. Not all characters are mortal practitioners and they're pretty much the only ones who have issues with tech. A werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's, for instance, could easily be seen to have perfect hair.

Also, the word football can inspire about the same levels of insane silliness in GB as it does in west Texas, though they're admittedly highly different definitions of the word. White Court influence?
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: ways and means on August 31, 2011, 01:27:35 AM: Don't forget about class it is important in the UK and would probably be even more important in the supernatural world.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: deathwombat on September 06, 2011, 01:11:21 AM: I so would love to play in a gamer at all and one set in Britain would be very cool. I could be a Yankee Wizard or something Yankee and play up all manner of stereotypes of yanks
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: deathwombat on September 06, 2011, 01:14:51 AM: Are the Matthew Swift books available across the pond?
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: NicholasQuinn on September 06, 2011, 11:12:52 AM: They are being sold on the UK Amazon, so one would assume so. However I've not been to any book shops recently, so I can't say if they're easy to come by locally.

Edit: Wait, that depends which "across the pond" ya mean. I've done a quick search, and can also find them on Amazon.com. So I assume either way, they are.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on September 06, 2011, 01:26:56 PM: Quote from: deathwombat on September 06, 2011, 01:14:51 AM
Are the Matthew Swift books available across the pond?

I believe that they are written (and first published) in the UK but available in North America. The first two are in paperback while the third is in hardcover.

Richard
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Ren on September 08, 2011, 03:08:35 AM: As an American having just returned from Britain i can tell you that the differences can be both non-existent and jarring at the same time.
As has been previously mentioned there is tons of history there going waaaaay back, but its one thing to mention it but another entirely to see it in action. The biggest difference that struck me while wandering through London is how architecture could change from one building to the next, though the buildings are shoulder to shoulder. One Building could be a brand-spanking new architectural wonder, the next could be a marvel from the 18th century.
Now take that and imagine the mentality of living in and amongst that kind of living history. Imagine the kind of supernatural creatures roaming around the alleys and sewers etc...not to mention the Spirits...ye-gads, can you imagine what the English spirit world must be like? I don't think a real ectomancer would last terribly long!
Something else to consider is the general politeness with which people treat each other. Sure Britain today has progressed far beyond the days of Victorian up-tightness, but rudeness is still not well-tolerated so interactions will tend to be far more civilized...i.e. I forsee a lot more social combat.
And for story-telling purposes don't forget the aristocracy, betcha they have a few wizards in their ranks, but here's another idea, what if they had their own Secret Society? An Accorded Society they kept hidden from even the White Council, maybe one founded on the tenets of Alestier Crowley?
The good thing about England is there is SO much to work with you won't run out of storyline anytime soon, the bad news is that it will likely be dark most of the time...lots of OLD history.
Also keep in mind that Britain, or at least Scotland, is the home of the White Council, so their influence will likely be strongest there.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Shw on September 08, 2011, 06:45:59 AM: Quote from: mremann on August 30, 2011, 09:25:13 PM
I'm a local, one of the reason why I choose Bristol ;D

edit: Two good Universities actually, don't forget U.W.E.

A local? In Brizzle or just outside? (I live in Bath).
Are you planning to include any of Bristols ghosts? When I lived in Clifton I heard some great stories about Blackboy Hill and I *swear* I saw something ghostly down by the docks one night, near the Louisiana - which is also supposed to be haunted.
Theres also some good legends about fairies in Bath, and the city in built on two ley lines. If you want more info, PM me :)
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Todjaeger on September 09, 2011, 06:21:56 AM: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the BBC show Skins set in Bristol? Some of the underground club/drug scenes could definitely be under the sway of the White Court, and/or some of the more malicious fae.

Also, even though (or perhaps especially though) you're a Bristol native, it would certainly be worthwhile to go have a look at the local tourist office and any local historical societies. You're liable to find out bits of local history and lore which you were ignorant of.

A case in point, I'm (more or less) a Connecticut native, in an area where some of the oldest English speaking settlements were founded. Despite having grown up in the area, I was completely unaware that one of the settlements, now known internationally as the City of New Haven and home to Yale University, had a series of four coastal fortifications built to defend the harbor. Or that the oldest fortification, now lost, was built ~1658, or that two of the fortifications were actually used in battle (against the British of all people ;)). By interesting coincidence, the site is now reportedly haunted...

Given how much older the Bristol is, given the evidence of Iron Age hill forts in the area and the fact that the Bristol suburb of Sea Mills was known to the Romans as Portus Abonae suggests that there is plenty of local color available if you dig deep enough. In some cases, literally.

Speaking in more general terms, what you might want to do is find, or choose a few key Aspects for you version of Bristol, and then decide which supernatural faction or factions best work with, or represent those Aspects.

As we have already seen from the novels, the Red Court for instance has a strong hold on Latin America and parts of Africa, while the Black Court used to have influence in parts of Central and Eastern Europe, and the White Court has/had some tie to Italy. If there are particular local neighborhoods within Bristol which might cater to those particular populations, or have a reputation for activities which might seem to be the work of the Red Court for instance, have a tie-in, things like that.

-Cheers
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mremann on September 14, 2011, 10:52:47 AM: Quote from: Shw on September 08, 2011, 06:45:59 AM
A local? In Brizzle or just outside? (I live in Bath).
Are you planning to include any of Bristols ghosts? When I lived in Clifton I heard some great stories about Blackboy Hill and I *swear* I saw something ghostly down by the docks one night, near the Louisiana - which is also supposed to be haunted.
Theres also some good legends about fairies in Bath, and the city in built on two ley lines. If you want more info, PM me :)

Local born and bred. Yes I am planning on using some of the ghost stories about Bristol, got several books on the subject. I have found researching Bristol to be quite interesting and I have learned quite about the history and folklore which I didn't really know about before. The tale of Goram and Vincent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goram_and_Vincent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goram_and_Vincent))
has to be the most interesting thing that I found out (Vincent will be appearing as an NPC) about Bristol.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: princeearwig on January 27, 2012, 09:36:19 PM: London local so can give some insights into the capital at least.
The city is literally an international melting pot. It has more "little italy's", "China Towns", "Homberg Highways" and "Metropolitan Mecca's" than almost any other major city.
So not just the history (both native and imported through imperial 'theft' and immigration) but you can cherry pick the perfect stereotyped cultural nemesis or bad guy of your choice.
The city is equally well developed below the ground as well. Not the most up to date and modern, but certainly one of the most complex subterranean transport networks.
You have closed stations, an entire rail network "just" for the postal service, a line for Harrods, complete MOD war tunnels, old stops, new stops, forgotten stops.
Victorian sewer tunnels, some of which are so badly clogged that they haven't been cleaned in decades.
A water ring main that you can literally ride a bike down (although it is now full floor to ceiling with water), at least 7 natural rivers that got forced underground simply by the virtue of being build over.

Place names that could act as aspects all on their own.
"Blackheath", "Piccadilly Circus", "Seven Sisters", "The Houses of Parliament", "Traitors Gate", "Centre Point"

More museums than you can possibly see in one day, but the range of types of venue within spitting distance from each other is the best thing.

You're never more than 10 meters away from a rat. Which would make a wonderful regional aspect.

For a truly wonderful presentation of a British supernatural mythoi you should try Gaiman's Neverwhere. Even the horridly shot tv mini series is worth watching.

I think the biggest thing that would diverge a DV UK from DV US would be the sheer weight of history. History coupled with tradition, the powers that be would be "hellishly" well embedded in the status quo.

Just my two penneth
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Vairelome on January 27, 2012, 11:45:34 PM: "The difference between America and England is that Americans think 100 years is a long time, while the English think 100 miles is a long way." --Earle Hitchner

As others have noted, Britain would have a more expanded sense of time, and a more constricted sense of space than the U.S.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Vargo Teras on January 28, 2012, 06:01:04 AM: Quote from: The Mighty Buzzard on August 31, 2011, 01:16:58 AM
Also, the word football can inspire about the same levels of insane silliness in GB as it does in west Texas, though they're admittedly highly different definitions of the word. White Court influence?
I do like the idea of a Wrath-feeding vampire as a football hooligan.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Katarn on January 28, 2012, 06:34:38 PM: While I'm not from Bristol (or the UK), its wikipedia article gave me a few ideas:

First and foremost,
STONEHENGE

White Council- as has been said, Eurocentric and (relatively) close to Edinburgh
*Warden of Bristol- seems very likely, unless your game is immediately post-DB.
*Chandler- could have a larger role in an UK setting. If you have specific time frame in mind for the game, keep in mind Chandler might be part of the newer Wardens (described by Dresden in TC as young).

White Court- GS Spoilers:
(click to show/hide)
We know the Raiths have some UK presence, maybe Felicia depending on the time frame of your game

Fae- as has been said, fae should be plentiful (perhaps as ruthless business "people")
*Luftwaffe raids in WWII (maybe someone made a deal to save the city from total annihilation?)

Ley Lines- because they're fun, and probably symbolic to the area.

Old Deities- check our archaic deities from the greater UK- there are a lot of unique, creative ideas to be had

"Virtute et Industria"- city's motto (Virtue and Industry)- definitely some types of supernatural businesspeople (plentiful fae), perhaps an occult order of knights or peacekeepers or people-for-the-good-of-mankind (Justicars, Knights Templar, Illuminati, etc.)

Old History- the area had human activity 60k years ago, and the Romans were nearby as well. Brycgstow was a trading centre with a mint, and even repelled Irish invasions. Jumping ahead,
*Part of the Triangular Trade
*Great Western Railway
*University of Bristol/U of the West of England
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Lanodantheon on January 28, 2012, 10:16:34 PM: Most of the previous response have given the advice I'd give.

The only Canon about Europe from the Novels is thus:

I can't find the book but once Dresden says, "The Old World is the home of the old school of Wizardry." He mentions that Wizards in Europe "Keep their heads down" and keep the supernatural out of the lime light at all costs.

Harry also mentions the Castles previously brought up. He mentions explicitly in one book that more than one of his European Wizard Contacts have their bases in actual Wizard Towers. Which would be cool.

The only other things I wonder about is A) What was Kemmler doing in Bristol if he was ever there? and B) What did the Bristol Blitz do to the supernatural community?
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: Thaumologist on January 29, 2012, 12:11:20 PM: Go and read Neverwhere, by Gaiman. It has, if I remember right, a large amount of British/European supernatural beasties, and a few ideas that could be fun (IE, The Floating Market).
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: DanteMVH on January 31, 2012, 04:05:35 PM: I see you've already started, but this is an interesting topic, so I'll throw in some concepts in case anyone else has similar thoughts.

Increased White Council presence - As others have said the White Council is in Edinburgh. It's the other end of the country in Bristol, but you can still get between the two in as little as 7 hours even on mortal transportation.
Increased Black Court presence - As the oldest and most 'classic' vampires, with roots in Europe, they're the most likely to be found in the UK.
Increased Fae presence - The Dredenverse Sidhe are heavily based on Celtic folklore, so it stands to reason they'll be more powerful in the UK, especially in Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
Decreased Red and White Court presence - Their powerbases are in South and North America, they're likely to be far less important in the UK.
Weapons are more restricted - The UK has very harsh gun and knife laws. Isolated rural types may have an old rifle or shotgun, and connected criminals might be able to get their hands on modern guns, but they're likely to be rare, expensive and really hard to explain if you're found carrying one. Our regular police don't even carry guns! (although specific armed police can be called in, SWAT style) Something to remember if anyone wants to make a cop character.
Religion is different - This is an odd one. Unlike the US the UK actually has an official state religion (The Church of England) but it isn't anywhere near as powerful or vocal as in the US. Most people seem to default to agnostic. That said, a very old and organised Church would have a lot of resources.
Immigration is different - Like the US, the UK is a melting pot, but it has different ingredients, which might influence what lore and organisations you draw on. There are far less Jewish people in the UK, for instance, so an ass kicking Rabbi would be a little out of place. There's a very high rate of immigration from South Asia, so it might be worth looking into Indian folklore for monsters, or using a Muslim or Sikh character in place of the traditional Catholic Priest to represent religion.
Britian is really old - Seriously, really old. Most cities will contain several buildings that are significantly older than the US as a country. There's a huge amount of scope for spirits etc that are way, way older and more powerful than the kind Dresden is likely to face.
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mdodd on January 31, 2012, 04:08:52 PM: I don't play RPG's anymore but what about the Roman cities being the ley line points for the NeverNever?
Title: Re: How different is Britain as a setting for the Dresden Files?
Post by: mremann on January 31, 2012, 10:31:08 PM: Wow, didn't realise someone had necro'd this thread. Thanks for a few more idea's, game is already under way (see my sig) but some of the idea's here are certianly interesting.