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Messages - dspringer1

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46
DF Spoilers / Re: Grave Peril Questions
« on: May 08, 2019, 11:26:44 PM »
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1.Mavra’s role in the fight at Bianca’s party was pretty underwhelming given her power level. The things she does of note in this book are to train Bianca in vampiric magic (perhaps necromancy-based?), weaken the barrier with the spirit world & help power up Kravos enough to wreak havoc on his enemies. Despite doing all this, her only contribution to Bianca’s cause in the party is to successfully stop Harry & co. from trying to leave early. Michael is able to take her fairly easily even without the Sword, using faith magic alone. And she’s mysteriously absent from round 2 when Harry goes back to the mansion & kills Bianca, unraveling their plan. Her stated reason for being at the party is seek revenge against Michael for eliminating her scourge decades ago.

I can think of a couple reasons for Mavara to keep her role limited
1) She is a guest of Bianca under the accords - which likely limits her action
2) She has no need to do more - or sees no advantage to doing more.
3) She is rather risk adverse






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2.Seeing how powerful Cowl truly is in Deadbeat, it seems odd that he would be relegated to attendant duty at the party. Also, given that Mavra’s actions kick-off the plot of Deadbeat, it’s interesting that she & Cowl are at the party without interacting much or acting against each other/ in concert
The whole point of the party was to be able to conduct biz without alerting the White Council or other supernatural powers.  A party was a perfect excuse to meet on the down-low.  If Cowl starts throwing down power or even provide a noticeable presence, it destroys that subterfuge and probably alerts many powers that something weird/dangerous is happening and they better pay attention.     




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3.At the end of the book, Bianca & Duke Ortega threaten Harry with war if he does not give up Susan. How does this benefit the Red Court??

It is obvious that Duke Ortega was speaking to the larger audience (aka - the larger supernatural community that will hear about events) and making diplomatic points at Dresden/White Council's expense.  Painting them as both rash and weak.   It was equally obvious that Duke Ortega was shocked when Dresden refused to give up and started that war.     Ortega misunderstood Dresden and made the wrong call.   As a result, The Red Court went to war at a time and place that Ortega would never have picked. 



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As Michael points out after the fight at the masquerade, Bianca took her best shot at Harry very publicly & failed. How is stealing Susan (who is not publicly known in the supernatural world as his girlfriend) a commensurate gain?

The spat between Dresden and Bianca is clearly a PERSONAL conflict.  Bianca is doing this to get revenge on Harry because she understands him enough to know that this outcome (Susan taken as a vampire) would be devastating to Harry -- and Bianca is confident that she has forced a situation where Harry either has to eat it (a great public victory) or Harry gets to die failing to stop it (a great public and private victory).  She cannot loose - unless of course Harry kills her minions, burns down her house and kills her.   But who could have seen that happening :)


47
DF Spoilers / Re: Role of Murphy going forward
« on: May 08, 2019, 11:08:44 PM »
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The next book is Peace Talks (#16). Mirror Mirror is the book after that (#17).

You are correct.  I should have said the next book where Murphy is likely to be able to participate would be Mirror Mirror.  We left Skin Game with her having months of recovery and I understand peace talks is just a few weeks at most after the end of Skin Game.    It is hard for her to take any role while bedridden. 



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Well, first, I don't think Murphy's physical condition is nearly as bad as many keep saying. Dresden says that she can get back to 90% eventually. That just won't be by Peace Talks. I think by Mirror, Mirror or Body Slam she'll be in fine condition. She didn't get Michael Carpentered and won't require a cane just to move around. And 90% of Karrin Murphy is like 300% of most people.

But 90% is sufficient to take her out of the supernatural combat role that she has played in.    That 10% is the difference between dying and living in that game.   



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Second, I've always pictured Murphy working as a supernatural consultant for vanilla law enforcement. I've said for years that she'd end up working with Tilly, basically taking on Dresden's role from Storm Front, but for the FBI. Lots of ex-cops go into consulting. Hell, she could end up apprenticing for Vince Graver (though I doubt it).


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If Murphy is in charge of organizing and integrating different organizations, it should be integrating supernatural factions with mortal law enforcement. That's where her experience is, not with White Council politics.

Very true - and a real possibility.   But a lot of the secrets she knows are just that - secrets that she would be very uncomfortable sharing even though the government would really like to know them.  Not sure she will be comfortable taking on the role with divided loyalties. 



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Third, Murphy will never become anything supernatural at this point. It would totally undermine her entire character if she has to deal with being mortal and get a get-out-of-mortality-free card.

Probably correct. 




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This seems extraordinarily unlikely. Murphy isn't even a member of the Paranet or the White Council--what makes her more qualified for this than, say, Harry? Or Elaine, or Luccio, or Ramirez, or other wizard-level talents with ties to the Paranet and who can demonstrate the advantages of integrating the two organizations. If Murphy just came in and fixed everything after these guys spent years trying, it would feel extremely unrealistic.

I would argue that Murphy has already been coordinating Paranet actions across the country.  Based on events in Afterwards and Cold Days, it is pretty clear that Murphy is a big player in the Paranet - and that Chicago has been playing a major role in the national Paranet response to the Formor.   Sure she is not a wizard and has no magical talent.   But she does the job -- and it is not as if the White Council is going to respect the magical talents of anyone in the paranet.  They are all feeble talents in their eyes. 

48
DF Spoilers / Role of Murphy going forward
« on: May 08, 2019, 05:09:23 PM »
We left skin game with the fate of Murphy somewhat up in the air. 
*  She is clearly NOT going to be a knight of the cross - or at least the odds are a lot lower than they were prior to Skin Game
* She is clearly seriously injured and will have a long recovery -- and her final physical condition will be noticably "less combat effective" than previously was the state. 
*  Dresden and Murphy are dating seriously
*  Next book is Mirror Mirror, which is unlikely to involve This Murphy to any extent. 


So what Role with this character play in the remaining 8+ books?
*  Clearly Murphy will be a trusted confidant and adviser.  She is already playing that role in both Cold Days and Skin Game
*  Clearly Murphy will not be a cop or part of SI.  That ship has sailed and is not going to come back.
*  I would not be surprised if Dresden has some revelation about murphy in Mirror-Mirror. 


Possibilities  (with highest probability options on the top)
*  Murphy will become/continue as one of the top national/world leaders in the paranet -- and take the lead in integrating the Paranet efforts with that of the White Council.  She becomes a politically powerful figure.    [moderate probability - evidence is that she has already been doing this, jim has already foreshadowed that paranet will be more important, who else is will situated to do this?]

*  Dresden gets the cup to heal Murphy, restoring her her full physical abilities and/or some other magical means of achieving same outcome.  Becomes Dresden's full partner in his business and in life.   [moderate probability, but the outcome will not be a return to the Murphy of Cold Days.  There will be some significant changes in her life].

*  Murphy will become the support spouse for Dresden - take care of the home, family, advice, detective partner, support - basically Charity with cop skills added on.   [Low probability, although real possibility in the post injury environment] 

*  Murphy will work for the government supernatural agency [very low probability -- just not seeing it as Murphy would see it as betraying confidences with Dresden ] 

*   Murphy dies [very low probability - if only because it would not appreciably add to the story, at least in the next few books]

Other possibilities?

49
DF Spoilers / Re: How was Demonreach filled?
« on: May 07, 2019, 08:57:37 PM »
The timeline of Demonreach implies that there were Wardens well before there was a white council.   Demonreach preceded the last ice age after all and the White council is only a few thousand years old. 

Some could argue that the formation of the white council itself was (at least in part) intended to provide better support for demonreach than a single (or small group) of wardens could do.  Much like the Fey replacing the Dragons as the defenders of the outer gates, things change over time even in the supernatural world.   Perhaps the world was getting to complicated for the old warden model.    No idea - but it makes for a nice theory. 

50
DF Spoilers / Re: Cowl Unmasked!
« on: May 07, 2019, 08:54:16 PM »
Sorry I meant white council, not grey.   :(

I agree that apprentice could be misleading.   Perhaps Kumori is a former apprentice or a very recent apprentice (unlikely based on her skill) or simply a necromancy apprentice even though otherwise a full wizard (possible) or a hidden apprentice (unlikely as she is too experienced). 

But the point of any investigation is to narrow suspects.  By far the most likely use of the word apprentice is that she is his actual apprentice right now.   Apprenticeship is a big thing to wizards and they are not likely to use the word imprecisely like ordinary people might.   

However, if you find that all you suspects are cleared, then you can go back to challenge your base assumptions.  I would argue that apprentice is not one of the first to be challenged.   

"Thought to be alive" is probably a better one.   

Or maybe checking with Eb and get a precis of the spell casting style of the top wizards in the white council might be a good additional criteria.  Some wizards style of magic is simply so different that they can be excluded as suspects.  Not a lot perhaps because versatility is the hallmark of a white council wizard, but some can be excluded.   

51
DF Spoilers / Re: Who really killed Margaret McCoy Dresden
« on: May 07, 2019, 08:46:35 PM »
Is everybody certain that Margaret McCoy Dresden is actually dead.    We know Dresden's dad is dead because his soul came back for a visit in Dead Beat.   But do we have any specific trustworthy evidence that she is dead.  For example, did Lea specifically SAY that she was dead.  Not gone, not missed - but dead. 

Going by the comic book rule.  If you do not see the body, then you cannot assume that the person is really dead.   Even if you see the body, there is still a chance they are not really dead.   

52
DF Spoilers / Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« on: May 06, 2019, 10:07:36 PM »
Three Scenes that will be good to see
1) Harry introduces Molly to Ebenezzer

2) Harry, Murphy and the Cops at SI working together around Peace Talks.  Harry is presumed terrorist/dead, Murphy is presumed crooked/crazy/crippled and Stalling/Rallings at SI seeing them again when things get really weird/dangerous. 

3) The cops at SI seeing Butters as a Knight of the Cross for the first time -- knowing that this is Butters! 

As you can tell, I think it has been too long since the SI cops have had a part in a Dresden book.  :)

53
DF Spoilers / Cowl Unmasked!
« on: May 06, 2019, 09:57:18 PM »
This is not about "who" Cowl might be.  There have been acres of threads on that topic and everything worth saying has been said at least thirteen times.

This thread is about "how" Cowl will be unmasked.  My assumption is that Dresden will realize the true identity of Cowl at some point and mayhem will result.   He is a detective and it makes sense that he will use what he learned and his intuition to discover the real identity of Cowl. 

Intuition based on what you ask?   Answer - intuition based on the facts that Cowl himself shared when he encountered Harry

General factoids that can limit the pool of potential candidates from thousands to perhaps a few score -- plus some number of presumed dead white council wizards as well whose bodies were not clearly identified. 
*  Cowl was seen at three specific points of time - Bianca's party, events in Chicago during Dead Beat and (indirectly) during the final battle in Raith cave vs the super ghouls.   Clear alibi's during that time slot could rule out many people -- or a lack of an alibi could seal the accusation
*  Cowl was clearly identified as male during Dead Beat when he met Harry in front of the book store.
*  Cowl's height was identified during Dead Beat when he met Harry in front of the book store.
*  Cowl has a female apprentice.  Wizards take apprentices pretty seriously and I doubt they would use the word when the true relationship is something else (like ally or minion) at the time of Dead Beat's events.   

Aka - half the wizards are male.  Probably a lot less than half of those males wizards have a female apprentice, with the rest obviously having a male apprentice or no apprentice at all.  If your pool is obviously mature/powerful wizards of the White Council, there cannot be more than a few thousand of those.  Probably no more than 15% of that number are male with a female apprentice.  The three score wizards remaining could probably be reduced in half again with some simply screening around the dates.    You now have a viable pool of potential candidates for Cowl that is of sufficiently reasonable size as to work with. 



Other factoids are more specific to Cowl and Probably are something that is best used to winnow the near final list to the real Cowl.   
*  Cowl expressed a preference for specific classical book authors when he met Harry in front of the book store.
*  Cowl used specific words when casting his spells.  Harry uses his words as one of his spellcasting "aids" and I suspect Cowl does the same.  This could easily be the "trigger" that causes Dresden to put everything together.  Ditto with spellcasting gestures, how he vanished, etc. 
*  Cowl's magical signature could have been memorized by Harry - but as this was never mentioned I assume that Harry did not pick up the skill to read magical signatures until Small Favor -- or he remembered to do so too late to be useful.
*  Cowls words implied that he is not -- or is not currently - a member of the grey council.  He speaks of them as if he is not a member.  This also implies that he is not completely "in the know" as to why the Council takes special care with regards to Dresden. 
*  Cowl cannot be the Merlin or Gatekeeper - simply because those positions are so powerful that the Outsiders would have already won if either had been held by their stooge. 


Any other clue I missed? 


54
DF Spoilers / Re: How was Demonreach filled?
« on: April 23, 2019, 09:45:34 PM »
Demonreach has not had a warden for centuries.  No warden - no danger to shagnasty.  And the island does have that really powerful ley line to draw upon if needed.   So long as Shagnasty is confident no warden is around, the island is actually a pretty decent place to stage a big battle.


55
DF Spoilers / Re: How was Demonreach filled?
« on: April 22, 2019, 06:11:22 PM »
For me the big question is -- how did they imprison all these critters in the first place.  Once they captured a couple, the word would have gotten out.   

This implies there is some remote "caging" magic that can be used to capture some godling that is not so stupid as to step on the island. 

56
DF Spoilers / Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« on: April 19, 2019, 10:59:41 PM »
My opinion is that the Formor have completely different motivations.    They are fundamentally not here about the spoils.  They are here to lay the groundwork for the next war - the one they plan on winning. 

57
DF Spoilers / Peace Talk Speculation
« on: April 19, 2019, 10:57:48 PM »
This will almost certainly repeat prior threads, but we are getting close to the publish date for peace talks.  Probably worth settling some key questions.

1) Whose "peace" is peace talks about.    Is this about ending the war with the Red Court?

On one level, this question seems stupid.  The Red court is destroyed.    But on another level, this question is very valid.   The war was NOT between the Red court and the White Council.   The war was between ALLIANCES.  On one side is the White council, a few informed human organizations, Summer and Winter.   On the other is the Red Court (destroyed), the Black Court, the White Court and probably some other unnamed lesser allies.

Under the accords, I suspect a formal peace treaty is required to end this state of war, at least from the perspective of Winter and Summer.  I suspect all the warring powers would prefer that the "state of war under the Accords" be ended.    The Accords apply completely different rules to nations "at war" than to nations "not at war" and those rules probably matter a lot to many of the participants.  Therefore it is of considerable value to formally end the war under the Accords. 




2) If the peace talks are about ending the war, what is the problem?

Again, in theory the peace talks should be easy.  The White court wants peace and would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo.   I mean that seriously - the White Court has done very well in the war and they are likely to retain most of their gains in power and territory by a peace treaty.  Previous statements are that the black court is not a major power any more and I doubt any other formal allies wield great power.   So the only real power opposing the White Council's alliance wants peace.      In theory - this should make peace talks a slam dunk. 

But it is pretty obvious that the Peace Talks will not be easy.  So why not.   The answer was pretty clearly stated in Ghost Story and in Aftermath:  Power Vacuum.  The reality is that the peace talks are not about ending the war, they are about dividing the spoils.   And just like in WW1 or WW2, there are a ton of nations that played some minor role or jumped in at the last second and now want their own bit of the spoils.  So these nations are participating in the peace talks to get their share of the goodies. 

Then there are other nations like the Formor which simple took advantage of the power vacuum to grab territory/people.   So any division of the spoils means the war powers have to enforce that decision on the Formor and other supernatural nations that grabbed some spoils even though they were not part of the war.    These nations either need their "grabs" to be tacitly approved (aka - lack of protest = acceptance) or they need to managed (aka - included in the talks and convinced to support the collective division of spoils) or they need to driven out (another war).   

I suspect the Formor are there as the White Council cannot ignore their activity  (aka - grabbing spoils), but at the same time the White Council does not want another war.   So trying to manage the Formor via Peace talks is the only option that might give the White Council what they want.     I doubt many in the Senior Council believe this happy outcome is likely, but it is perfectly clear that most "lay wizards" are desperately tired of the war and willing to accept nearly anything that looks vaguely like a decent peace.     

58
DF Spoilers / Re: Re-interpreting the events of Small Favor
« on: December 05, 2018, 09:25:16 PM »
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Also the Archive is an objectively bad choice for mediator here if you think about it. You essentially have 2 smaller powers fighting each other - the best arbiter would be a larger power with the means to enforce their judgement - there is no way Ivy + Kincaid could take on all the Denarians united. The situation was reversed during the duel between Harry & Ortega, where 2 of the largest powers needed a smaller matter mediated - also Ivy + Kincaid could take on Ortega & his vassals if need it (and they did).

I think you are misunderstanding the role of the arbiter.   Their role is to be a neutral party to resolve the issue of the accords.  They must be a significant power (as they are a member of the accords) and presumably neutral in the specific conflict.   The arbiter would certainly act to enforce the rules of the duel, but is not some supernatural police force.   Their role is primarily to witness the duel, make a good faith effort to enforce the rules of the duel -- and (a clearly lesser priority) punish any who break the rules.   The threat she made at the beginning with the mordite was to discourage rule breaking, not eliminate the possibility. 

Once Ortega got away, she communicated to the accord members the results of the duel, including Ortega's breaking of the rules.  It is up to the accord members to enforce the rules - which Ebenezer did by killing Ortega.   The Archive's role was not complete.

Not if she feels Ortega's actions shamed her in some way, the archive might choose to get revenge.  But revenge (or justice) is not a expected duty of the mediator. 





59
DF Spoilers / Re: Re-interpreting the events of Small Favor
« on: November 26, 2018, 04:32:32 PM »
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My theory is that Nic suspects that Mab is not currently strong enough to enforce the Accords.


Mab is a serious player in the supernatural community, but there are many serious players.  And there are many individuals (Hades, Mothers, other old hoary gods, archangels) that are significantly more powerful.    Nobody plays power games at the level Nic players without taking risks and making enemies.    Successful players are good at this type of gambling. 

Whatever action Mab does to punish a breaker of the accords must be somewhat comparable to the deed that was done.  So at best Nic risks a specific (and painful) disruption of his plans once or twice.  Breaking the accords does not make Mab a lifetime enemy after all.   They may even ally again in the future as they did in the past. 

60
DF Spoilers / Re: Skingame - why was Nicodemus hurtable?
« on: November 20, 2018, 11:24:52 PM »
The evidence that Nic is immune to injury is pretty slim - basically that one scene with the bullets.   And if we had never heard of the Noose, the explanation for that scene would be some combination of "Fallen making him tough to hurt" and "Fallen Pain blocking" and "Showmanship because it causes FEAR and that is good for any Fallen"


Do not get me wrong.  I am sure that the Noose protects him from dying and I am also sure that the Noose will heal all injuries received while the Noose is worn (except for injuries caused by the Noose).   But healing is not instant.    So in a battle measured in seconds, the healing is not enough to create a big factor.   But you notice that given a little time (aka - after they both race to the Michal's house", Nic is a lot better. 

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