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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Rechan on February 03, 2007, 05:29:36 AM
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Earlier posts have said that the RPG will have Evocation and Thamutology, and Faith Magic. Will there be anything else?
For example, the Shadowman had somehow learned a demon's name, ergo letting him use the demon as a weapon. Will the book have information on demon names and how to use them?
Harry managed to make a deal with his fairy godmother to gain power. Will the book discuss how to get power from outside sources (and what those powers are)?
How about Mind magic? Necromancery? Ectomancery (Summoning and speaking to ghosts)?
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Well, obviously I can't speak for Fred and Rob here, but here's my $.02...
There is a significant difference between the kind of magic and the kind of casting. Necromancy is what you do, thaumaturgy is how you do it. From an RPG standpoint, we really only need rules systems for the "how" portion of the magic. So, we'll have rules for evocation, and rules for thaumaturgy. The "what" portion of magic is then defined based on the result of the "how" portion.
So, suppose you want to summon a demon to help you in a fight. You can use either evocation or thaumaturgy to do it (though thaumaturgy is much better, since summoning is something you do not want to screw up). You decide which method you want to use, and make your check(s). If you know the demon's name, this gives you a major advantage, giving you some kind of bonus to the check. Depending on the degree of your success (or failure), you either fail to summon the demon, you summon it but have no control over it, or you successfully summon and control it.
I would guess that deals for power would be something that would need to be addressed. It certainly seems to be something that happens quite a bit, especially with dark mages.
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If that were the case, then the "How" would need to be described in such a neutral way that one could make their own "Whats". For instance, the system details the "How" of magic to allow someone to come up with how the werewolf magic-trick works.
Also, will there be magical item details in the book? How to make potions? How items like Hexenwolf belts are made, or items like Harry's foci, one-shot tricks like the cuffs Harry uses on Susan in "Death Masks"?
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I'm going to have to defer most of these questions to the experts. However, said experts have mentioned in the past that foci are going to be part of the magic system, and that potion-making will be covered. I seem to recall quite a discussion on the nature of defining the different types of magic items, but that may have been on the mailing list.
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There is the ritual magic in Blood Rites.
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While I remember reading (somewhere) that the main point of having as much in the main book as possible is to cut down on the Sourcebook Syndrome that most other RPG companies indulge in, I have to say that questions like this one are definitely a reason why sourcebooks are not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, yeah... it's great to say that foci will be a system in the book, but what about players who want more than that? I'm perfectly willing to take the book and make my own rules regarding artificing or potion-making or anything else, but I may be the exception to the rule. And there will always be people who will want to have "official" rules, no matter what.
For me personally, if there isn't something written in the book, then I'll make up my own rules and try them out. If they work, great and I'd let people know about them. If not, then no big loss. I tried, right? But maybe a sourcebook on magic wouldn't be such a bad idea. Just to add some width and breadth to the topic.
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The what/how thing is pretty spot on. Magic abilities will focus on how's, with specific what's being improvable as specialties (e.g., Harry knows the 'how' of Evocation, and has some tools and skills improving his ability with the 'what' of throwing fire around).
Magic largely breaks down into:
Common ritual - The magic that everyone can do, so long as they get their hands on the right (usually rare, protected) tome containing rituals that haven't been ground down to uselessness by overuse.
Evocation - Grossly simplified, this is the ability to summon up a bunch of energy of type A, and push it somewhere. It's very fast, and it resembles magic that's been done all over for thousands of years. Big supernatural creatures have had evocation and evocation-like things for a long damn time, and by and large it's the main way they get things done, magically (beyond the abilities simply contained within their bodies, like supernatural strength, yadda yadda). Wizards tend to know a wide variety of techniques within Evocation, while others may be limitd to a specific technique or two (such as the "telekinetic" kid, who's actually a budding kinetomancer).
Thaumaturgy - This is the ability to construct very potent ritual results, and is one of the few big edges that mankind has when it comes to spellcraft. This is the ability to do things that are vastly more subtle than human Evocation tends to allow, as well as things that are vastly more potent, thanks to the elements of structure and control that it can bring to a party. This has also given rise to the creation of objects that resonate with or store particular kinds of magics, so it's where you'll find your blasting rods and potions getting created ("Alchemy"). In general, Thaumaturgy lets magic do things that aren't dependent on pushing energy in a straight line from point A to point B, and it lets you combine several kinds of energy into the same thing. It is, in short, everything that Evocation isn't.
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For me personally, if there isn't something written in the book, then I'll make up my own rules and try them out. If they work, great and I'd let people know about them. If not, then no big loss. I tried, right? But maybe a sourcebook on magic wouldn't be such a bad idea. Just to add some width and breadth to the topic.
If we do our job right, then once a year, every year, a new "sourcebook" will come out, in an exciting new format called a "novel". They'll be written by this little-known author by the name of Jim Butcher. :-D
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Sounds like a good way to do things.
And I like this new sourcebook plan... it's very, ah, novel.
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If we do our job right, then once a year, every year, a new "sourcebook" will come out, in an exciting new format called a "novel". They'll be written by this little-known author by the name of Jim Butcher. :-D
Yeah, I think I've heard of him somewhere. Didn't he have this series or something? ;)
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Are we looking at a skill based way of using magic? Or invoking of aspects? Or maybe mostly skill based and then the invoking of aspects for really cool magical effects that apply to the aspect?
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Are we looking at a skill based way of using magic? Or invoking of aspects? Or maybe mostly skill based and then the invoking of aspects for really cool magical effects that apply to the aspect?
Yes. :)
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Good answer :)
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You can always rely on the folks around here for a straight answer.
It's like dealing with the damn Fey...
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The Fey are not Damned, they're neutral. ;)
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't necromancy supposed to be fundamentally different than normal magic? That's the impression I got from Dead Beat, at least...
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I got the feeling that the skills of necromancy were the same as regular magic, it just pulled power from a different source. Kinda like the light side and the dark sida of the force.
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It's the same How, but a different What.
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I'm not super-close to my Dead Beat reading right now to be able to say for sure, but I think folks are right here -- it's as much about power sources as anything.
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See all of the aspects of magic that were mentioned in the beginning are part of thaumatology and evocation. True names are used in thaumatology, ectomancy can be either evoc or thau. The styles of magic are all about how you do it, not what you do with it.
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I imagine True Names could also be used for Evocations in order to bypass magical protections or to quick and dirty dominate someone.
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Just because something is different in setting, it doesn't have to be mechanically different. For example, a flamethrower might have the same mechanical effects as a fire spell, but obviously they're not the same thing in setting terms.