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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: dspringer1 on August 30, 2021, 03:14:30 PM
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We learned in Skin Game that Lashiel is perfectly willing to "adjust" the perceptions of her host to get that host to act in the desired way. We learned in Dead Beat that Lashiel was able to deceive Dresden even though he had not formally accepted the coin.
So key question, were there instances between Dead Beat and White Night where Lashiel deliberately deceived or hid things from Dresden (using her illusion power) to keep some important information from him - or perhaps to create false information from a trusted source.
Some possibilities: Information that might identify "Cowl", information about necromancers/necromancy that bite him in Battle Ground, Something about the White Court? No idea, but there do seem to be some possibility here.
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We learned in Skin Game that Lashiel is perfectly willing to "adjust" the perceptions of her host to get that host to act in the desired way. We learned in Dead Beat that Lashiel was able to deceive Dresden even though he had not formally accepted the coin.
So key question, were there instances between Dead Beat and White Night where Lashiel deliberately deceived or hid things from Dresden (using her illusion power) to keep some important information from him - or perhaps to create false information from a trusted source.
Some possibilities: Information that might identify "Cowl", information about necromancers/necromancy that bite him in Battle Ground, Something about the White Court? No idea, but there do seem to be some possibility here.
Lasciel may have tried, but I doubt that her shadow actually did. Remember once Harry realized the illusion of Sheila, he did question a lot of what the shadow told him and gradually she transformed into Lash.. However some could have gotten past him, but bare in mind at the times Harry was asking for information, often his life was in the balance. It wasn't in the best interest of Lasciel for Harry to die, so the information as far as it went was accurate.
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One possibility is that she hid the flaw in LC.
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One possibility is that she hid the flaw in LC.
That could be.. Or she had something to do with fixing it.
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I have a WAG that says she did both in different times.
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I have a WAG that says she did both in different times.
I don't dispute that, all I am saying is once Harry found out that she was a shadow in his head and
trying to win him over for lack of a better word so he'd accept the coin, he had a healthy skepticism
of most advice that she gave him. Where he ran into trouble was his acceptance and willingness to use hell fire. He wasn't aware or ignored the fact that it was corrupting him every time he used it. It wasn't until Murphy sat him down and pointed out how he was changing that he began to reject that as well.
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Changing what he saw isn't giving advice.
Speaking as a Doylist Jim did something odd. He writes Lash as having a panic attack when Harry actually gets to use LC, yet in the first instance she doesn't make a peep. Was there any less hazard?
One scenario would be if her intent was to kill with the first and to prevent him from using it to find Molly in the second. YMMV
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I was actually suggesting that Lashiel was deliberately distorting (subtly) what Harry heard when talking to other people. For example, when Harry was getting information from his skull Friday perhaps a key details was not heard or subtly changed. Alternatively she could have subtly changing what Harry perceives with his magic or the results of his divination spells. She cannot interfere with his sight, but she clearly could fake his other magical senses - like when he tried to get a sense of the flavor of Cowl's magic. Harry talks to a lot of people in these books collecting information and it would not take much illusion effort on Lashiel's part to hide or distort a key fact while leaving everything else alone.
I doubt she would try anything in front of a major power like the Merlin, Eb, Mab, etc. But all else is game.
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I don't dispute that, all I am saying is once Harry found out that she was a shadow in his head and
trying to win him over for lack of a better word so he'd accept the coin, he had a healthy skepticism
of most advice that she gave him. Where he ran into trouble was his acceptance and willingness to use hell fire. He wasn't aware or ignored the fact that it was corrupting him every time he used it. It wasn't until Murphy sat him down and pointed out how he was changing that he began to reject that as well.
I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Lash has a 3 book arc. Why was she there, what was the arc of her character to accomplish? The answer is Bonea. What my WAG suggests is that Bonea is the source of the knowledge that Harry needs to save himself. Bonea is a messenger. She may tell Harry what no one else will when the time comes. YMMV
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I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Lash has a 3 book arc. Why was she there, what was the arc of her character to accomplish? The answer is Bonea. What my WAG suggests is that Bonea is the source of the knowledge that Harry needs to save himself. Bonea is a messenger. She may tell Harry what no one else will when the time comes. YMMV
At the moment though that is a bit of a stretch, she has a lot of maturing to do. At the moment she may have at her fingertips every pancake recipe known to man, but she also thinks milk is alive because it moves in the glass when you pour it.
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I have to agree with Morriswalters, although Mira has a clear point. For the most part, Bonea is going to be pretty worthless as an information source. Perhaps a few useful bits mixed in with a lot of useless junk.
But it is clear that all the immortal powers are highly constrained on how they can interact with mortals - including by providing information. Bonea is a loophole. Immortal knowledge without immortal constraints. Her nature makes it almost impossible to get that information, but the possibility for success is not zero. At some point that loophole will become critical.
However, I would argue that, from a literary standpoint, Bonea is a lot more than a information loophole or a valid reason to provide readers with an info-dump. Just like Maggie or Molly, Bonea is going to be one of those individuals that helps define Dresden's character more clearly as well as providing emotional (funny, heartwarming, sad, etc) moments of emotional impact.
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@Mira
However childlike she may seem, is she really? She bargained with Demonreach and Mab to hide her very existence from Harry..
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@Mira
However childlike she may seem, is she really? She bargained with Demonreach and Mab to hide her very existence from Harry..
Did she? Or did they advise her that would be best. Her "Id" father may have did the bargaining for her, after all he knows Harry best and knew that knowledge of her existence would freak him
out and he'd seek a "cranial abortion" if he could get one.
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I don't write the books, I just read them and the text says bargained. How your imagination interprets them is up to you.
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I don't write the books, I just read them and the text says bargained. How your imagination interprets them is up to you.
Where does it say that exactly? I am not trying to be snarky or doubt you, I have a vague memory of it, but cannot find the text for context.
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“Tell me about this parasite.” “I WILL NOT.” I made an exasperated sound. “Why not?” “IT BARGAINED.” “With what?” “YOUR LIFE, WARDEN.”
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 168). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
I don't think your snarky. Nor is my word the final one. But I argue hard, although it doesn't always serve me well.
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I don't think your snarky. Nor is my word the final one. But I argue hard, although it doesn't always serve me well.
I know you argue hard, I do as well and enjoy it. But here is what is weird about that sentence, Alfred said "IT BARGAINED." "With what?" "YOUR LIFE, WARDEN."
So why exactly was Boney bargaining? Was she begging for Harry's life? Or did she want him dead? I mean after all the trouble Mab and Alfred went to, I don't think they'd want Harry dead. \
Oh and one more thing, reading the whole chapter, there was no island before Merlin built it, five times in five different time zones, dimensions, and all at the same time...
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The text doesn't speak to that. But it appears she has her own agenda.
Don't trust Bob on this.
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Oh and one more thing, reading the whole chapter, there was no island before Merlin built it, five times in five different time zones, dimensions, and all at the same time...
There was no prison before OG Merlin built it, but the island is not the exact same as the prison. Merlin had somewhere to stand while making the prison. Beyond that, the genus loci probably also existed in some much more limited form, hence the ice age injury from the glacier.
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There was no prison before OG Merlin built it, but the island is not the exact same as the prison. Merlin had somewhere to stand while making the prison. Beyond that, the genus loci probably also existed in some much more limited form, hence the ice age injury from the glacier.
You're right, it gets confusing, there was a spit of sand and some trees.. Merlin does use a Way to get there.. Hmm...Maybe he taught Rashid?
Alfred is the island; page 171 Cold Days Bob explains to Harry.
"Because that spirit is the island, Harry. The spells, the Well, the physical island,does not existoutside this island. It has no ability to reach beyond itself. The attack is coming from outside the prison. That is why it needs a Warden in the first place."