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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Sanctaphrax on May 04, 2013, 06:05:54 AM

Title: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 04, 2013, 06:05:54 AM
Is anyone here familiar with the Worm Web Serial (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/)?

Because it is pretty great, and you should read it.

Reading it made me want to try writing some of its characters up, so I'm doing that. Anyone else who's read the story should feel free to contribute their own takes on its characters.

I'll also consider requests, if anyone has any.

If you haven't read Worm, this might not make too much sense to you. Feel free to ask for clarification.

I'm starting with Simurgh and Behemoth. Dunno who I'll do next...maybe Lung.

Incidentally, I had to make some assumptions when filling out the bottom of the skill pyramids for these guys. We don't actually know whether Behemoth has social skills, for instance. But I figure he probably does, he just can't be bothered to speak to humans.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 05, 2013, 06:05:54 AM
Lung and Cherish, now.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 07, 2013, 12:29:43 AM
Worm is awesome, hands down.

Do you have a Catch for Lung?

Not even going to bother asking if the Endbringers have one other than Scion.

As for requests, how about Myrddin or Noelle?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 07, 2013, 01:05:07 AM
It is indeed.

I decided not to give Lung a Catch, partly because I couldn't think of one and partly because his Toughness Powers are already pretty limited.

I don't think Noelle should be too hard, as long as I don't try to assign a Refresh cost to her clone-generation. I'll give her a try.

But I don't really know where to start with Myrrdin. I was never really sure exactly what he could do or what kind of person he was. And his in-depth Cast entry is missing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 07, 2013, 01:10:07 AM
Thus the challenge!

Basically he creates pocket dimensions which seem to be able to absorb and redirect energy and matter, or trap people extra-dimensionally.  That was the impression I got anyways.  It's too bad he got killed off before he could get an Interlude.

How did you find the series Sancta?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 07, 2013, 01:25:26 AM
Yeah, he definitely did something with pocket dimensions. But exactly what he did is kind of hard to tell.

Maybe I'll just give him Incite Effect. That's usually a pretty good default for stuff that's hard to model.

On the other hand, he was pretty darn powerful. Incite Effect might not be "big" enough. Maybe I should go with Sponsored Magic instead. He did have that wizard theme.

And I really like the series. Wouldn't be talking about it here, otherwise.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 07, 2013, 01:31:29 AM
Incite Effect is nice, glad you wrote it so I can use it for some of my characters, but yeah no clue how it could be worked out for something like that.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 07, 2013, 05:58:53 AM
And here's Noelle.

(click to show/hide)

Turns out the Swallow Whole custom Power fits her very well.

It's nice when an old custom Power becomes useful like that.

My basic idea for Cloning is

(click to show/hide)

So, what do you think?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 07, 2013, 05:19:01 PM
Looks good, pretty accurate.

You know, I had never considered before that her power ended up pantomiming her eating disorder.  All I had realized was the psychological damage led to her mutating horribly based on her negative opinion of herself.

I'll have to think of another toughie, but you haven't done Leviathan yet.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 07, 2013, 10:15:20 PM
Yeah, I didn't realize it either until someone in the comments mentioned it.

But it's kind of obvious once you see it, eh?

Constantly hungry, gets bigger and uglier when she eats, cannot get smaller even if pieces are cut off, has a vomiting-based superpower...

I started Leviathan a while ago. I stopped because I couldn't think of a good way to model his macrohydrokinesis. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Here's what I had when I stopped:

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 08, 2013, 06:32:33 AM
Well his macrohydrokinesis can basically assault an entire section of coast line, either doing surface damage or wear and tear underneath to slide land masses under water.

We're talking off the scale in terms of weapon rating and too many zones to bother counting.

For the massive waves I'd consider just putting them on a timer then just put every pertinent zone under an automatic zone wide attack with a high weapon rating and maybe place maneuvers on the zone too, Under Water, Crushing Pressure, etc, and have players either get into the air, far away somehow or put up massive blocks, make Declarations
like High Ground.  Wash, rinse repeat whenever the timer runs out.

For stuff like destroying the sewer system his Incite Effect probably works, maybe give it a power boost if he uses it at the same time his timer runs down on the massive wave ability.

I assume the natural weaponry is his water echo?  If not the dangerous aura ability might work?  You know it better than me.

Also he can hit Mythic Speed, when he was under water Taylor momentarily thought he was teleporting he moved so fast.  Limitation I guess.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 08, 2013, 06:38:28 AM
For my next challenge to you, how about the Number Man?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 08, 2013, 06:59:08 AM
Hm.

The Number Man is tricky because DFRPG mostly lacks mental Powers. Precognition would fit him, but it only covers a small part of what he can do.

Maybe I'll write a Super Math power. Could be useful for other characters too, at some point in the future.

As for Leviathan:

The Natural Weaponry is indeed his afterimage. It's not a perfect fit, but since he mostly uses his afterimage to hit people from a distance I figured it was a good enough representation.

I forgot about how he gets faster underwater. I will indeed use Limitation for that.

An attack on a timer is probably a good way to handle the waves. For grander stuff like making lakes and sinking Japan, I'm thinking maybe Leviathan performs water-related Thaumaturgy just by existing. 4 shifts of power per exchange or something.

I guess that stuff could just be handwaved, but...I'd rather do something more rigorous.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 08, 2013, 07:08:36 AM
Ooo, using Thaumaturgy for it, I like that.

And, yeah, the Number Man is tricky, which is why I picked him.  I get the feeling his precognition is limited to extrapolating from known data but with no limit on the number of variables he can consider simultaneously, rather than simply yanking futures out of thin air like Dinah.  Though that's really not very limiting when you think about it...

Super Math would be cool to see.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 08, 2013, 09:34:22 PM
I agree about his precognition. Fortunately the Precognition Power accommodates that pretty well. You need Prophecy to be Dinah.

As for Super Math, here's what I have in mind:

-You perform basic calculations as though you have a graphing calculator and a spreadsheet in your head. That is, instantly and perfectly.
-You can count instantly and without error. You can tell at a glance how many people are in a crowd, how many metres long a monster is, and how many metres per second a car is moving at.
-You are substantially better at everything that involves math. How much better depends on how math-y the activity in question is. So the boost would be huge for proving theorems related to the geometry of 8-dimensional space, big for analysing the latest information from the Large Hadron Collider, moderately large for managing money, and small for fixing a car.

Think I'm missing anything?

I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to implement this mechanically, but I have some ideas.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: S1C0 on May 08, 2013, 10:25:41 PM
At Sanctaphrax

I think it would work with a variety of bonuss, the more related to math stuff IE science i would give a +12  and

have the value drop the less math that is involved, +12 is just an example i have little idea how to use math in game or

how much it can come up.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 09, 2013, 01:29:02 AM
The problem is that damn near anything could be done like that with math.  Say you've been working in a bar and following mixed drink recipes, you're ability to immediately quantify things is going to make you amazing at that.  Mechanical stuff tends to be math-y too, though I guess less so up front nowadays with computers being used so heavily.

Dunno, maybe a flat bonus with a situational declaration or maneuver for tags?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Belial666 on May 13, 2013, 09:34:38 PM
For knowledge powers that give a usable bonus, there's the precedent of a Fists-based Stunt that allows you to roll a skill as a free action to make an Assessment about your enemy or the battlefield.

The Numbers Man would simply have Powers that worked like this for the skills of Lore, Investigation and Alertness. Each power would be a -4 refresh power rather than a -1 refresh stunt because it would apply to very broad fields and conditions (almost anything).
Thus, for -12 refresh, the Numbers Man could make 3 free assessments/declarations per round - which he could then tag to get up to +6 in skill checks. Add "A Few Seconds Ahead" as a power and a "Reading The Pattern" stunt for +2 to any precognition rolls and you're good to go.



BTW, I sent Sancta my own powersets for the Endbringers. Given the powers each of them has, I think they need a significant boost - especially toughness-wise. For example, they can do the following;

1) Face dozens of opponents in prolonged fights, each opponent being a superhuman at Submerged level on average.
2) Survive a nuclear explosion - nukes have been used against them in the past.

Specifically for each Endbringer;

Leviathan is the fastest thing on the surface of the world; he can move faster than any speedster and as fast as the speed of sound underwater. He combines hydrokinesis in relatively confined quarters to his own physical attacks. He can destroy vast areas - but it takes hours.

Behemoth is immensely strong. He is also invulnerable to energy in the scientific term i.e. elemental and kinetic attacks, he is capable of controlling such energy and also to outright project it up to a couple hundred feet apparently without effort. (he does so 4 times in a row in the first few moments of his very first appearance). Last but not least, he can slowly turn areas into radioactive wastelands.

The Simurgh has awareness of both peoples' secrets/thoughts and of stored information/telecommunications and that awareness extends even through barriers at least fifty miles away. She is powerful enough telekinetically to lift multiple house-sized objects to use for offense or defense. She is a very powerful precog/illusionist capable of deceiving and avoiding the attacks of even Scion. And last but not least, she can slowly corrupt the destiny of people, setting them up for terribly destructive ends.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 14, 2013, 04:55:51 AM
The Numbers Man would simply have Powers that worked like this for the skills of Lore, Investigation and Alertness. Each power would be a -4 refresh power rather than a -1 refresh stunt because it would apply to very broad fields and conditions (almost anything).
Thus, for -12 refresh, the Numbers Man could make 3 free assessments/declarations per round - which he could then tag to get up to +6 in skill checks. Add "A Few Seconds Ahead" as a power and a "Reading The Pattern" stunt for +2 to any precognition rolls and you're good to go.

That sounds like a pain in the neck to play. Four rolls per turn? No thanks.

Also AFSA is a badly written Power that I refuse to use.

BTW, I sent Sancta my own powersets for the Endbringers. Given the powers each of them has, I think they need a significant boost - especially toughness-wise.

Worm Toughness caps out a lot higher than DFRPG Toughness. I noticed this issue right when I started this project, but I figured Mythic Toughness was close enough for government work.

Behemoth is immensely strong. He is also invulnerable to energy in the scientific term i.e. elemental and kinetic attacks, he is capable of controlling such energy and also to outright project it up to a couple hundred feet apparently without effort. (he does so 4 times in a row in the first few moments of his very first appearance). Last but not least, he can slowly turn areas into radioactive wastelands.

I'm not sure if he's actually immune to energy. He might just be really resistant. Which is why he has armour 10 here.

He's got Dangerous Aura for the wasteland thing. I'm not sure if that's enough, though, because it ends when he leaves.

The Simurgh has awareness of both peoples' secrets/thoughts and of stored information/telecommunications and that awareness extends even through barriers at least fifty miles away. She is powerful enough telekinetically to lift multiple house-sized objects to use for offense or defense. She is a very powerful precog/illusionist capable of deceiving and avoiding the attacks of even Scion. And last but not least, she can slowly corrupt the destiny of people, setting them up for terribly destructive ends.

I think I covered most of this pretty well, but she does lack a Supernatural Sense to read stored information. I should probably add that.

The decoy was probably just a Discipline maneuver using her enormous skill.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 15, 2013, 07:14:06 AM
I don't think nukes have been used on them...when Tattletale mentions that nuking Leviathan probably wouldn't work no one is going, "Oh, we already knew that!" Which would have been the case if they had tried.

Also, yeah Leviathan is fast but there are those who can move as fast or faster, notably Legend and Alexandria.  Plus he really only hits those speeds in or on water.

Sancta, for Behemoth's aura you could add a new upgrade that creates duration, or at least leaves a heavy duty sticky scene Aspect.

In the interest of continuing to provide a challenge, how about Prism?  Not sure I've seen any duplication powers.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 15, 2013, 10:15:29 PM
I think Wildbow said something in the comments about nukes being used.

And honestly, nukes aren't as deadly as people make them out to be. Roughly three-quarters of Hiroshima survived and none of them had superpowers. So I doubt nukes would be terribly effective against the Endbringers.

Well, actually, Simurgh might be fragile enough to be significantly harmed. But she'd see it coming, and so she'd find some way to protect herself.

And I doubt that either Alexandria or Legend is faster than Leviathan in combat. Legend no doubt has a higher max speed though, what with his musings on space travel.

For Prism, I'd look at Revlid's multiple bodies Power. It's on the list.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 16, 2013, 08:57:44 AM
Damn, so there is a Power for that.  I guess from there you would just build in Inhuman Powers with a Limitation of collapsing all other bodies and throwing in a time limit for the Inhuman Powers.

Does the multiple bodies power cover all but one of them being rain out?

Alexandria is capable of keeping a comparable speed to Legend, and you could speculate that at the very least he can hit light speed since like you said interstellar travel.  You could be right though about them having difficulty maintaining those speeds in combat.

To hit Simurgh with a nuke would take a lot of work but be doable.  Basically the whole thing would have to be accomplished with precogs to block her own precognition.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 19, 2013, 06:49:58 AM
Okay, here's Super Math.

Pretty happy with everything except the name. It just sounds dumb.

Any ideas for a better name?

Other feedback is also welcome, but the name is what bothers me most about this Power.

SUPER MATH [-3]
Description: You're good with numbers. Really good. You have the creativity and intuition of a great mathematician mixed with the speed and precision of a supercomputer.
Skills Affected: Scholarship, Lore, Craftsmanship
Effects:
Calculator Brain. You can do arithmetic and design graphs near-instantly and you never miscalculate. You effectively have a graphing calculator and a spreadsheet in your brain.
Perfect Measurement. You can count perfectly at a glance, and your estimated measurements are almost flawless. You never need more than a single action to Assess something numerical. Add 4 to your Scholarship skill when using it for a numerical Assessment or Declaration.
Good With Numbers. Add 8 to your Scholarship skill when performing pure mathematics. Add 6 to your Scholarship skill for physics, computer programming, and other forms of applied math. Add 4 to your Scholarship skill for economics, chemistry, engineering, and other math-heavy disciplines. Add 2 to your Scholarship, Craftsmanship, and Lore skills when doing anything that involves math in any meaningful way.

EDIT: The new name is Numerical Prodigy.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 19, 2013, 07:04:14 AM
I dunno, I kind of like Super Math.

Cool power though, I feel like I should take advantage of it for a character sometime.

Thinking about it, the first part of the power could almost certainly be a Supernatural Sense, right?  Man, I could see getting a lot of mileage out of the first part of the power.  Weight guessing, counting jelly beans in a jar, pouring perfect shots...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 20, 2013, 02:56:07 AM
If you do make a character with Super Math, I'd be interested in seeing them.

I'd let you take most of Perfect Measurement as a Supernatural Sense, but I wouldn't include the +4 to Declarations.

Calculator Brain and Good With Numbers wouldn't work so well as a Supernatural Sense.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 20, 2013, 07:06:23 AM
Meet the Number Man.

(click to show/hide)

I wasn't sure whether it was a good idea to keep him in positive Refresh, but he's clearly the kind of guy who Invokes a lot of Aspects. And maybe he's a horrible monster out of his own free will. So in the end I didn't make any particular effort to drive him down to 0 Refresh.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 23, 2013, 03:53:02 AM
Judging by the most recent interlude, I underestimated Lung. Ah well.

So now I'm going to write up Prism and Myrrdin. We don't know much about either of them, so these writeups are gonna be pretty guess-work-heavy.

I've thought about it some and I'm pretty sure the best way to represent Myrrdin is with Self-Sponsored Magic. He never does ritual stuff on-screen, but we don't know for sure that he couldn't have done so. And hey, maybe his brand of Sponsored Magic doesn't grant much in the way of rituals.

I'm not going to write it up fully, but I do have an extra benefit in mind for it. It lets him cast Evocations that block everything a target does by removing that target from existence temporarily. Until the spell ends or the target manages to overcome the block with an action, the target is trapped in a pocket dimension and impossible to attack or otherwise interact with.

I dunno whether Myrrdin's staff is actually a focus or not, so Myrrdin may or may not deserve Behemoth's Internalized Foci Power. That's why there's a question mark there.

He might also deserve Magical Compartment, but maybe his Sponsored Magic can handle that.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 23, 2013, 05:46:22 AM
In light of Belial's comments and some recent revelations, I've adjusted the stats of Behemoth and Simurgh.

I gave Behemoth a custom upgrade for Dangerous Aura. It costs 2 Refresh and causes his aura to linger in a zone after he leaves the zone. Once the scene is over, the entire area in which Behemoth used his aura becomes more-or-less permanently dangerous.

I gave Simurgh some Supernatural Senses and an Incite Effect that lets her scramble computer programs.

Leviathan is next up.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 25, 2013, 12:17:56 AM
If you do make a character with Super Math, I'd be interested in seeing them.

I'd let you take most of Perfect Measurement as a Supernatural Sense, but I wouldn't include the +4 to Declarations.

Calculator Brain and Good With Numbers wouldn't work so well as a Supernatural Sense.

If I ever do then I will let you know.  I'm thinking a sniper with Teleportation or one of the Speed powers.  I rarely make combat monsters but making someone that good with numbers highly mobile with projectile weapons just sounds like a ball of fun.  I have nothing to justify that with though.  Scion of Maxwell's Demon maybe...

High stakes gambler with a penchant for Kennedy assassinations perhaps.

In his downtime he could do completely frivolous things with his power, like tell people the exact number of hairs on their head...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 25, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
Maybe the Teleportation and the speed could be a narrative extension of the Super Math. Using a superhuman brain to exploit irregularities in time and space, letting you move in impossible ways.

Anyway, I doubt such a character would be too combat-monster-y. Super Math is primarily a non-combat Power, and it's a big chunk of Refresh. Limits how murder-hobo you can go, you know?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 25, 2013, 03:31:38 AM
True, but I can see using it to set up Aspects to exploit like crazy.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 25, 2013, 06:16:35 AM
Certainly. That's what the Number Man does, after all.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 25, 2013, 08:29:16 AM
Meet Leviathan.

(click to show/hide)

And take a look at his signature Power. The cost here is a complete guess, so don't take it too seriously. Same goes for the 100 shifts to destroy a city thing. The mechanics in general are sketchy, but they should be usable.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 25, 2013, 08:33:58 AM
I assume he builds those shifts while performing other actions as well?

Also, his waves seem to build in intensity over time, so does that mean when he performs his "Ritual" that he also doesn't lose all of the shifts already generated?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 25, 2013, 08:49:20 AM
Yes, he can do other things while building complexity.

He actually does use up his shifts when he creates an effect. It's just that while building up to his big city-drowning wave he creates other waves whenever he crosses a landmark in his shift-gathering.

It's not an ideal set of mechanics, but it ought to work for an NPC who shows up rarely.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Mrmdubois on May 25, 2013, 08:50:41 AM
Sounds good, you're doing the Worm fandom proud.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 26, 2013, 06:27:17 AM
Thanks.

Anyway, I think I'm done here. I've written up everyone I wanted to write up, and there aren't any requests pending. I do have a couple of edits to make, but they'll be done by the time anyone reads this.

Might email this stuff to wildbow later, or I might not.

PS: In case you're interested, here's what Belial sent to me about his take on the Endbringers. As you can see, his style differs from mine.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 09, 2013, 06:42:17 AM
Okay.

So, this new guy, Khonsu...anybody have any idea about how to stat him?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 28, 2013, 04:52:42 AM
Not me  :-[.

However I do have some requests if you're interested. I think Grue, Taylor, Bitch, Nilbog, Moord Nag, and Bonesaw would all be really cool to see statted.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 28, 2013, 05:39:10 AM
I'm gonna have to decline Moord Nag and Nilbog, partly because we don't know all that much about them and partly because they seem tricky to stat.

Brian and Taylor should be fairly easy, though. And I think I can manage Bonesaw.

The challenging one is Rachel. Might have to write a power-granting power for her.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 28, 2013, 05:50:48 AM
I'm gonna have to decline Moord Nag and Nilbog, partly because we don't know all that much about them and partly because they seem tricky to stat.

Brian and Taylor should be fairly easy, though. And I think I can manage Bonesaw.

The challenging one is Rachel. Might have to write a power-granting power for her.

Thanks!  ;D

One of the applications of Thaumaturgy is "Create Lasting Changes in People and Things". Maybe she has Ritual? We do know it takes some time for her to bulk up her dogs...but I'm pretty terrible at statting characters up anyways (which is why I'm asking you  :P).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 28, 2013, 10:05:56 PM
Here's Taylor.

I felt like she deserved more skill points than I could offer...might have been a good idea to kick her up to Scuba Diving level. She could use the extra FP, too, with the stuff she pulls.

Her ability to make spidersilk armour is covered by her Incite Effect and her Craftsmanship skill. Some GMs might not allow that, so if you want to play her you might have to use her last spare Refresh on some kind of silk ability.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 29, 2013, 05:54:12 AM
And here's Bonesaw.

I'm treating tinker stuff as Thaumaturgy with Scholarship replacing Conviction and Craftsmanship replacing Discipline. Lore is still Lore, and it reflects knowledge of powers and Endbringers and other funky stuff.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 29, 2013, 06:27:19 AM
And here's Brian.

I hadn't really planned to make Resources his pinnacle skill, but he is the leader of the Undersiders. And the Undersiders are all probably millionaires at this point. Solving problems with money rather than violence seems like his style, since it involves very little risk.

Considered making Cozen one of his Aspects, but...we don't know how serious their relationship is so I decided against it. His association with Taylor seems more likely to matter in play.

He controls his shadows with Intimidation. Couldn't really think of a skill that fit, but...Intimidation works if you squint a bit.

Taylor uses Discipline for her bugs, in case that wasn't obvious.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 29, 2013, 08:43:05 AM
And here's Rachel. Believe it or not, she's a Pure Mortal.

Writing up a Power that let her give other characters Powers seemed like a lot of work, so I decided to model her Power as a Limitation on the Powers of her dogs. This made it easy to model her using the pet and ally rules (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,30475.msg1481213.html#msg1481213).

If she wants to power up a dog that's not hers, or if she wants to have more than two of her dogs on hand for a fight, then Aspect Invocations are gonna have to do the heavy lifting.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: razorsmile on July 29, 2013, 02:04:55 PM
Here's Taylor.

I felt like she deserved more skill points than I could offer...might have been a good idea to kick her up to Scuba Diving level. She could use the extra FP, too, with the stuff she pulls.

Her ability to make spidersilk armour is covered by her Incite Effect and her Craftsmanship skill. Some GMs might not allow that, so if you want to play her you might have to use her last spare Refresh on some kind of silk ability.

(click to show/hide)

Should probably be something in there that covers her frankly ludicrous multitasking ability. Other than that, it's a stat-up; comprehensive yet compact.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 30, 2013, 12:58:39 AM
Wow, how did I forget that?

I considered giving her Extra Appendages, but her Refresh budget didn't have room. Maybe I should just kick her up to Scuba Diving after all...

Or maybe I could just reword Extra-Strength Passenger to Multi-Task Passenger.

For whatever it's worth, here's Scuba Diving Taylor:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: 123456789blaaa on August 05, 2013, 02:29:08 AM
Random thought: I kinda wonder what the worm characters would be like if you translated them over to the DF setting? What would they be? Rachel as some sort of focused practioner who can buff up anyone but chooses to only do so on dogs? Taylor as a neuromancer who's weak enough that she can only take control of simple minds like insects and crabs? Grue as a Hob changeling (though that doesn't really fit with his body and looks)? A DFRPG game set in a city where a group of "low powered" talents ( ;)) have taken over after the fall of the Red Court could be fun.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 05, 2013, 03:16:53 AM
I dunno.

Honestly, the question's not that interesting to me. I feel like you'd lose a lot of what makes the Worm-verse characters who they are if you moved them into the Dresden setting.

Gonna put these up on the wiki tonight.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 05, 2013, 03:33:03 AM
After reading Worm I now can fully understand how awesome this thread is.

How would you do Regent, Incite Effect for simple twitches and involuntary reactions and domination for the full body takeover or would it warrant spellcasting?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: 123456789blaaa on August 05, 2013, 04:32:55 AM
I dunno.

Honestly, the question's not that interesting to me. I feel like you'd lose a lot of what makes the Worm-verse characters who they are if you moved them into the Dresden setting.

Gonna put these up on the wiki tonight.

Do you think so because magical stuff is kept hidden in the DF while the superhero situation is very public in the Wormverse? That's pretty much the only thing I can think of that would have a major impact on the characters (what with Tattletale for example, probably not being blamed for her brothers death. Well, unless they found out about her powers...).

Requests: Night,Fog, Crawler, Mannequin, Hatchet Face, Cherish,and the Siberian. Oh yeah, and Jack. I'm rather curious as to how you'll stat him.   
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 05, 2013, 06:00:16 AM
Do you think so because magical stuff is kept hidden in the DF while the superhero situation is very public in the Wormverse?

That's part of it. The Red Court would be totally out of place in Worm, and the PRT would be totally out of place in the Dresden Files.

The psychological importance of trigger events and passengers is another part. Every natural cape has been traumatized, and many of them have weird mental rewiring thanks to their powers.

The atmosphere of the worlds is different too. The Dresdenverse is more mysterious, the Wormverse is more scary. Urban fantasy/noir mystery is different from superhero/horror-thriller.

And the powers manifest differently. The Wormverse is basically materialistic. Your brain is a physical object, your powers are physical effects. The Dresdenverse is more spiritual. You work magic with your will, and you've actually got a soul. DF heavyweights have all kinds of metaphysical weight, while Wormverse heavyweights basically just punch really really hard.

Requests: Night,Fog, Crawler, Mannequin, Hatchet Face, Cherish,and the Siberian. Oh yeah, and Jack. I'm rather curious as to how you'll stat him.

I did Cherish already.

Jack, Night, and Crawler should all be pretty easy.

Mannequin and Fog will probably be a bit trickier, but nothing I can't handle.

Hatchet Face and the Siberian are too hard, though. No can do.

After reading Worm I now can fully understand how awesome this thread is.

Did you start reading because of this thread?

How would you do Regent, Incite Effect for simple twitches and involuntary reactions and domination for the full body takeover or would it warrant spellcasting?

No need for spellcasting. His body-stealing is a little tricky to model because it's halfway between Domination and Possession, though. He sees through his victims' eyes and controls their every movement, but he keeps control of his own body and he can target multiple people. On the other hand, he loses control if his concentration breaks.

I'd probably do it like this...

Incite Spasms At Range [-2]
Limitation [+3] (Must concentrate to keep thralls under control, which sometimes involves taking a penalty. If concentration breaks thralls go free until he concentrates again.)
   Superior Enthrallment [-3] (Grants the Pack Instincts Power with all upgrades.)
   Pack Instincts [-4] (All upgrades, pack consists of enthralled characters.)

Using the homebrew version of Pack Instincts, of course.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: 123456789blaaa on August 05, 2013, 07:02:22 AM
That's part of it. The Red Court would be totally out of place in Worm, and the PRT would be totally out of place in the Dresden Files.

The psychological importance of trigger events and passengers is another part. Every natural cape has been traumatized, and many of them have weird mental rewiring thanks to their powers.

The atmosphere of the worlds is different too. The Dresdenverse is more mysterious, the Wormverse is more scary. Urban fantasy/noir mystery is different from superhero/horror-thriller.

And the powers manifest differently. The Wormverse is basically materialistic. Your brain is a physical object, your powers are physical effects. The Dresdenverse is more spiritual. You work magic with your will, and you've actually got a soul. DF heavyweights have all kinds of metaphysical weight, while Wormverse heavyweights basically just punch really really hard.

Huh...interesting stuff to ponder. Though I never really thought of Worm as a horror story. I mean its got horrifying things in it yeah but those seem like more of a strong side dish. It's kind of like if someone wrote a story set in some third world, war torn country. Horrible and scary things are done in those countries every day but I don't think you'd classify a book that had those things as a "horror" story. The Dresdenverse could easily have that kind of horror, we just don't see it because Jim doesn't want to write that stuff (by WoJ).   

I did Cherish already.

Jack, Night, and Crawler should all be pretty easy.

Mannequin and Fog will probably be a bit trickier, but nothing I can't handle.

Hatchet Face and the Siberian are too hard, though. No can do.
<snip>

Whoops, forgot about that  :-[.

Thanks again  :D.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 05, 2013, 07:53:55 AM
First three done.

The full extent of Crawler and Night's healing is beyond the scope of the system, sad to say.

Crawler's evolution is just buying Powers. You can do that whenever you have a good excuse, in this game.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 05, 2013, 07:59:43 AM
Did you start reading because of this thread?

Yeah I felt I was missing some context and spent the next week reading, I'm currently almost halfway through Arc 23 about where Behemoth first shows up. Which makes me feel like Endbringers with the possible exception of Leviathan are pretty much plot device territory.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 05, 2013, 08:33:59 AM
They are pretty massively overpowered. But keep reading! Surprises are in store!

Depending on how you look at it, the second half of Crushed either proves the Behemoth is beyond stats or proves the opposite.

That aside, it's kind of nice to know that this thread has given Worm at least one new reader. Not sure why fan-evangelism (fangelism?) is satisfying, but it is.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 05, 2013, 10:43:56 AM
I am also a fresh made Worm reader. Currently on about 6.9
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 05, 2013, 06:32:11 PM
And for Fog I was thinking a upgrade of Gaseous Form that the maneuvers inflict something like the POISONED aspect, and or BLINDED for a simple solution.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on August 05, 2013, 08:08:53 PM
I just started it and am now hooked.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 05, 2013, 11:29:12 PM
Given that Leviathan's afterimage is constantly creating water for him to play with, is a Myrk-esque power appropriate?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 06, 2013, 12:04:57 AM
I thought it was more an afterimage of already existing sources like the rain, and floodwater than him creating it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 06, 2013, 06:00:14 AM
I think he's actually creating that water. His Aura Of Influence power is supposed to represent that constant water-production.

And for Fog I was thinking a upgrade of Gaseous Form that the maneuvers inflict something like the POISONED aspect, and or BLINDED for a simple solution.

Maybe. Trouble is that Fog can definitely hurt people while in his gas form. The Gaseous Form is supposed to stop you from attacking, and using the Venomous ability to get around that seems kind of sketchy to me.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 07, 2013, 12:19:55 AM
Sooo, this is awesome so far. i'm at Prey 14.1 and i'm, drawing inspiration for a character in Defending the Borders from Taylor.

I would probably give Cherish a stunt that lets her mess with people's head with Rapport, or Intimidation. Maybe if she performs an Assessment on them regarding their emotions, her Rapport attacks are Weapon:2 for the rest of the scene?


Also, is this thread going to be spoiler-free?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 07, 2013, 03:38:18 AM
Cherish could probably do with a head-messing stunt, but I'm reluctant to edit her now that she's done.

This thread will probably stay about as spoilery as it already is. No direct plot discussion and character write-ups in s-blocks, but sometimes people will mention things that could be spoilers. For example, we discussed the fact that Regent can take over people's bodies a couple of days ago.

That aside, here's Mannequin. His skills might be a little low...being both a brilliant scientist and a highly successful serial killer costs a lot of skill points.

When not using the gas and the arm gun, Mannequin spends his enchanted item slots on his arm blades, giving him a limited number of extra-strong arm blade attacks each session.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 08, 2013, 06:16:37 AM
Wow, okay. Having read the latest update, I feel inspired to write up Lily/Foil/Flechette. Because that was badass.

And it'll be nice to have a chance to use ACaEBG.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 09, 2013, 04:42:21 AM
And here's Lily.

Wasn't so sure about her skills, and I kind of wish I could give her more FP so that she could use her Object Tuning more often, but I think these stats should be serviceable.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 09, 2013, 07:22:23 AM
And here's Fog.

Decided not to go with Gaseous Form because I wanted him to be fully combat-capable in fog form.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: 123456789blaaa on August 09, 2013, 02:30:25 PM
Nice  8).

Though I'm wondering if Mannequin should really have Superb Fists. I'm rereading his first fight with Taylor and he doesn't seem that great at fighting. Not bad but it seems his real power in a fight comes from his defences.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 10, 2013, 06:21:02 AM
Holy crap this was an intense update. Go read it.

That aside, I'm not 100% confident that Mannequin has the right Fists skill. But he's supposed to be scary, so I went for the skill cap. Feel free to change that if you use him in one of your games.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 10, 2013, 07:06:53 AM
Just read last update, Wow.

And regarding Foil, I remember seeing an upgrade for one of the Toughness killer powers that negated the need for Fate Points somewhere on here, could be overpowered but from what I've seen from her it looks like she warrants it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 10, 2013, 07:28:29 PM
An upgrade like that would push Foil into negative Refresh even if I cut other stuff to make room for it. So although it would fit her, I think she'll have to do without.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 11, 2013, 01:45:22 AM
Oh.


Oh crap.


Stupid Jack Slash. That was cheating.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on August 11, 2013, 02:34:38 AM
In light of the revelations about Jack's power, fancy re-statting him to take his secondary powers into account?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 11, 2013, 02:57:31 AM
I'd just say it is a boost to awareness or something like that, instead of a full power of itself.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 11, 2013, 03:02:51 AM
I feel like an analogue might be AFSA, but that power is bad.

Maybe a stunt boosting his defenses?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on August 11, 2013, 03:06:40 AM
Thanks Sancta. You have officially addicted me. Bastard.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 11, 2013, 06:13:38 AM
Glad to have you onboard, narphoenix.

I'm actually kind of surprised how effectively this thread seems to be advertising the series. I guess seeing out-of-context characters makes people want to learn more, and Worm tends to hook you once you start reading it.

In light of the revelations about Jack's power, fancy re-statting him to take his secondary powers into account?

Unfortunately, it's not clear exactly how Jack's other power works. I really don't know how it should be statted.

Maybe just switch his defence stunt to "+2 to dodge parahuman attacks" and make Good At Wrangling Evil boost attacks against parahumans. Then make his Trouble Aspect reference his power and have him use his 10 Fate Points.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on August 11, 2013, 04:05:54 PM
It's more than that though. It's a connection with other parahumans that has multiple effects. It gives him a bonus to dodging, empathy, rapport, weapons and probably deceit too. Might be best to just adjust an aspect a little so that he can invoke it easily. It'd actually make sense with what happened in the last chapter.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 11, 2013, 09:43:53 PM
Like I said, his Trouble and his FP supply will have to do a lot of the heavy lifting.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on August 12, 2013, 08:03:41 PM
Hey Sancta. I noticed that you discussed doing/did all of the Undersiders. Except for Imp. Can you do her?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 12, 2013, 08:07:36 PM
Huh. Imp.


I think that you could hack the Displacement power into working for her.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 12, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
I don't think I've done Tattletale or Parian, actually.

But yeah, Displacement (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Displacement) would work for Imp. Take the Enhanced Displacement and Invisibility upgrades and you're golden.

Skills are trickier. We haven't seen much impressive mundane stuff from Imp. Though she seems to be pretty good at slitting throats.

I think I've got a good set of ideas for Aspects.

I'll take a shot later today.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 12, 2013, 09:31:19 PM
I actually thought that Inexplicable Knowledge was written with Tattletale in mind.


Parian might have Ritual:Summoning? and Telekinesis, with no Strength power and low Conviction?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 12, 2013, 09:39:07 PM
Inexplicable Knowledge predates me reading Worm. It would work pretty well for Tattletale, though.

On the other hand, Tattletale could also work as a Pure Mortal who spends a lot of FP on Declarations.

Parian would require a new Power that I don't plan to write. Her puppetry is much faster than Ritual (Summoning), but the resulting creature is not independent. She has to control it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 12, 2013, 09:53:03 PM
Two more options would be Ritual(Summoning) with the Mastery of Spellcasting thing, or using the Companion stunt system.


Well, I'm now fully up to date on Worm and really, really, really HATING. JACK. SLASH.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on August 12, 2013, 10:16:50 PM
I was actually thinking that Tattletale hit unstattable due to an almost Intellectus thig. But I dunno now. I have to see the Inexplicable Knowledge power to tell.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 13, 2013, 12:30:34 AM
For Parian you could use the Drone power, give her inhuman strength or whatever and throw in a limitation saying they only apply to drones.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 13, 2013, 05:07:21 AM
For Parian you could use the Drone power, give her inhuman strength or whatever and throw in a limitation saying they only apply to drones.
Two more options would be Ritual(Summoning) with the Mastery of Spellcasting thing, or using the Companion stunt system.

Good ideas, but...I dunno. None of them seem perfect to me. Drones + Limitation is probably closest.

I was actually thinking that Tattletale hit unstattable due to an almost Intellectus thig. But I dunno now. I have to see the Inexplicable Knowledge power to tell.

Intellectus isn't unstattable. I'm not thrilled with what we have in the other thread, but it's at least a credible attempt.

Anyway, here (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Inexplicable+Knowledge)'s Inexplicable Knowledge.

(Have I ever mentioned how handy it is to have individual Power pages? So handy. Makes me wonder how I ever got by before the big wiki upgrade.)

That aside, here's Imp.

Her skills are speculative. I have no idea what post-timeskip Imp can do, so I made things up.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 16, 2013, 02:30:48 AM
So some requests!

Legend (possibly unstattable), Alexandria, Accord, Newter, and Labyrinth!

Accord probably has Intellectus regarding how to introduce order or solve a problem.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 16, 2013, 05:59:31 AM
I can do Alexandria and Newter easily enough.

Dunno about Accord and Labyrinth. Their powers don't translate that well to DFRPG.

Legend definitely isn't unstattable. Might require a bit of jiggering to get his lasers to be as powerful as they should be, but I'm confident I can manage something.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 16, 2013, 06:49:08 AM
And here's Legend.

Unlike most of these writeups, this one's not current. It dates back to his interlude. I wanted to stat him as the Protectorate leader.

This posed some trouble, since Legend already pushes up against the limits of 50 skill points and 21 Refresh. He's got social, physical, and political power in spades, and all of that is expensive.

I wanted to make his Speed and Strength Mythic, but it wasn't in the budget. And if I had one more skill point to play with, I'd have given him a 3-wide skill tower up to Superb with Fantastic Presence on top.

His Aspects were kind of fun to write. Stole one of them from the Parahumans Online interlude.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 16, 2013, 08:33:59 PM
Legend is cool!


Also, upon review, the veteran members of the Nine seem to be able to turn off their ability to feel pain whenever they want, which seems to scream "Human Form restricted Feel No Pain". Bonesaw definitely has it.


Also, after reviewing the Drones power, it seems really appropriate for Taylor. But it doesn't allow for the massive amounts of bugs she has access to, and the fact that it doesn't really bother her when they get killed.

Also, is Panacea doable with this system? It might be possible to hack something together with Incite Effect and Ritual (Biomancy) or even full Thaumaturgy.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on August 16, 2013, 10:17:38 PM
Can't...stop....reading....

:P
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 17, 2013, 07:29:47 PM
Also, upon review, the veteran members of the Nine seem to be able to turn off their ability to feel pain whenever they want, which seems to scream "Human Form restricted Feel No Pain". Bonesaw definitely has it.

I gave Bonesaw Feel No Pain, without Human Form.

Gave Jack Inhuman Toughness to represent being augmented by Bonesaw. Considered giving him Feel No Pain as well, but decided to conserve Refresh because it hadn't been confirmed in-story.

Not really inclined to edit that retroactively. He needs that massive stack of Fate Points.

Also, after reviewing the Drones power, it seems really appropriate for Taylor. But it doesn't allow for the massive amounts of bugs she has access to, and the fact that it doesn't really bother her when they get killed.

Drones is appropriate, but it's not necessary. I like the current Supernatural Sense + Incite Effect + Limitation set-up.

Also, is Panacea doable with this system? It might be possible to hack something together with Incite Effect and Ritual (Biomancy) or even full Thaumaturgy.

Maybe.

The problem is that Panacea's power is unreasonably strong. She can make Extreme Consequences vanish with a touch. She can casually reverse a city-wide plague. She can make creatures like Atlas and the relay bugs out of whatever biomass happens to be lying around, without significant effort or a significant time investment.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 19, 2013, 07:57:49 AM
Newter's done. Wasn't too tricky.

Alexandria is proving to be harder. I think I have her Powers down, but I'm having trouble with skills and Aspects.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 19, 2013, 09:08:19 AM
Alexandria here.

I'm not totally satisfied with these stats, and I might still revise her later. I felt like she needed more skill points than I was allowed to spend.

Input would be greatly appreciated.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 19, 2013, 04:27:44 PM
Newter and Alexandria look good! Her skill pyramid was a little weird until I read the Immunity thing.


I was thinking that Panacea is just the strongest biomancer who's ever lived. Thaumaturgy, a buttload of Refinements, possibly that Internalized Foci power, and Mastery of Biomancy or Incite Effect for the fast and dirty stuff.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: MadAlchemist on August 19, 2013, 06:49:16 PM
Yup, this thread got me hooked. Haven't been peeking too much here till I caught up.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 19, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
Glad to have you onboard, MadAlchemist.

And yeah, Panacea is basically "just" the strongest biomancer ever...except, the magic system doesn't go that high. Repairing snapped spines with a casual touch is just not possible for a character in this system.

And considering what Mab had to go through to keep Harry alive after has was "killed", I don't think Panacea-level healing mojo is supposed to exist in the Dresdenverse. Except, maybe, when the White God gets involved.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: KnightOrbis on August 21, 2013, 03:24:52 AM
How would you stat up certain strikers like Grace, Watch, or Brandish.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 21, 2013, 05:44:02 AM
Natural Weaponry, mostly. Sometimes with a stunt or two.

Watch, for example, deserves a stunt that negates two points of worn armour when he attacks unarmed.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 30, 2013, 01:18:13 AM
Hmmm.

Musings on Hatchet Face have led me to some interest in a Power-nullifying Power. Possibly creating a block on using any supernatural abilities similar to that of a threshold- any effort is reduced by x shifts.

Is this a terrible idea? It'd be a really scary thing to spring on one's players.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 30, 2013, 05:13:54 AM
I don't think a block is the best way to go about it. When Alexandria goes to punch Hatchet Face, she doesn't find it any harder to hit him. She just doesn't do much damage, because her strength has been negated.

A block would also fail to represent the offensive aspects of Hatchet Face's aura, like the way that Speed doesn't help you dodge him and Toughness doesn't help you tank his hits.

That's why I declined to stat Hatchet Face when he was requested. Proper stats for him would require a new Power-negating Power, and it would be a lot of work to write such a Power.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on August 30, 2013, 07:00:15 AM
Not particularly. A persistent Block to all rolls that use Powers that would affect the zone Hatchet Face is in would do it (Hatchet Face not included). He would effectively have his own threshold.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 30, 2013, 07:25:39 AM
That wouldn't actually affect most Powers at all, since most Powers don't involve rolls.

And it would be fairly easy to muscle through for many opponents, since Hatchet Face's Discipline is probably not all that great.

If Taylor is in melee with Hatchet Face, she shouldn't be able to put a BUGS IN YOUR EYES Aspect on him. But by that writeup she could, since she maneuvers at Epic or Legendary with her insect control and his block is probably just Good.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on August 30, 2013, 08:01:08 AM
Hmm, point. I'll give it some thought and edit in some improvements.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 31, 2013, 12:27:53 AM
I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on August 31, 2013, 03:26:38 AM
Why not make it a threshold value?  Any power/spell affecting hatchet face must over come a threshold of "x".  So speed powers would be reduced or strength.  Spells and ranged abilities would equally be reduced.  It needs a bit of refinement but it seems to suit the theme of the power.

Edit: I just repeated another post...but a threshold goes deeper than a block because it suppresses powers.

So, if hatchet face has a power of 4, any power directly affecting him would be lowered by 4.

a punch using Supernatural stength would be negated while mythic would have the effects of Inhuman.

A lazer blast (breath weapon) would have no effect because it's 2 refresh worth of powers.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 31, 2013, 06:32:42 AM
It's never been clear to me exactly how thresholds are meant to work.

But if you think you can write a good Power using their mechanics, please do. Just be sure to make it clear how the Power is meant to work.

And bear in mind that Hatchet Face's power affects powers not aimed at him, too. Everyone nearby has their powers negated.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on August 31, 2013, 11:02:50 AM
Okay, here's my improvement. I've decided to go for a full character sheet this time.

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(click to show/hide)

I think that just about covers it. I couldn't think up much more than that for his aspects since he really doesn't have much of a personality. After Bonesaw's treatment in the first S9 attack he was basically an automaton, but even in the last S9 arc he was the quiet type.

I based Power Negation's cost on Incite Effect, since this is basically a passive version of it. I also figured that since it's passive it would better fit on Presence than Intimidation or Discipline. As I said, he doesn't have much of a personality, but he does command a lot of fear just by being who he is. It also handily solves the problem of him having a low Discipline rating, since he doesn't have to actively control it. It's just there.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 01, 2013, 08:31:43 AM
Mm. I dunno. Ignoring all balance concerns...

This version still has issues with non-action Powers. When Hatchet Face shows up in an area that contains Lung and Watch fighting each other, then Lung becomes human-sized. Watch becomes able to meaningfully hurt Lung with a gun. If Lung is flying, he falls to the ground. Watch can no longer use his Speed when dodging Lung's attacks.

This Power doesn't cover any of that.

And Presence doesn't seem appropriate, to me. It's a social skill, I don't think it has anything to do with power-negation.

PS: I don't think Hatchet Face is immune to Powers used from outside his aura. Foil killed Tyrant, and Cherish killed the original, so I think he's vulnerable to ranged attacks.
PPS: I'm not commenting on Hatchet Face's stats right now, since I'm more concerned with his special Power.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on September 01, 2013, 01:10:00 PM
Hmm, good points. This calls for more thought!
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 01, 2013, 04:17:50 PM
I think that your writeup is looking good, PirateJack. I'm not incredibly familiar with the threshold mechanics, but i think it's along those lines.


So i'm guessing an even semi-accurate writeup of The Siberian (who honestly has the coolest name in the wormverse) is completely impossible without some kind of 8 Refresh Strength power that basically does what Physical Immunity does for Toughness?


In case that was unclear, this is what I meant, in the form of a really rough write-up.

LEGENDARY STRENGTH [-8]
Description:Your strength is the kind of thing out of myths, because you are unrealistically strong. Things like actual gods of strength and war, extremely old giants, and elder earth elementals might have this power.
Musts:Legendary Strength replaces all other levels of Strength if taken.
Skills Affected:Might, other physical skills.
Effects:
Legendary Lifting: Whenever lifting or breaking inanimate objects, you gain +24 to your roll.
Ridiculous Strength: Roll Might at +4 whenever using that skill in conjunction with grappling. This also allows you to inflict a 5-stress hit as a supplemental action during a grapple.
Godlike Strength: Whenever using your Might to modify another skill, it always provides +4 regardless of it's comparison of your Might score to the actual skill in question.
Annihilating Blows: With attacks that depend on muscular force (Fists, Weapons, etc.), you are at +8 to damage, increasing the stress dealt by 8 on a successful hit.



Because I can't think of a single thing that a base roll of twenty-four doesn't lift or break, this might work for the "unstoppable force" aspect of her power. Her Physical Immunity is easy, but I'm not sure how to model her ability to extend it to everything she touches.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 01, 2013, 10:35:46 PM
I think you'll have better luck with Hatchet Face if you don't connect his power to any skill.

I dunno if another level of Strength is really required for the Siberian. What does (s)he do that Mythic Strength wouldn't be sufficient for?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 01, 2013, 11:20:25 PM
Yeah, having the power-negation not attached to a skill is a good idea.


Slam through Physical Immunity, for one. Base rolls of +12 lift/break almost everything, but I thought that that wasn't really sufficient for someone who could theoretically chew through fifteen feet of titanium.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 02, 2013, 04:13:56 AM
I was thinking that an upgraded All Creatures Are Equal Before God could cover the "go through everything" schtick. Bump the cost up to maybe 9 Refresh and remove the FP cost.

And since durable objects can sometimes be represented with armour and Toughness Powers, it'd be easy to adjust that Power so that it affects objects.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 02, 2013, 11:26:43 PM
Nine refresh is a lot. I would price a no-FP version of ACaEBG at six or seven Refresh.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 03, 2013, 06:34:42 AM
Well, there's room for disagreement here. But always-on ACaEBG is really really powerful, so I'm inclined to err on the side of a higher cost.

The base cost of the power is 3 or 4 Refresh. I think 4 is a bit more likely, since I think Holy is probably free. The Swords as a whole cost 5 before the rebate and True Aim probably costs 1, so the question is whether Holy costs 0 or 1. I'm inclined to go with 0, since I'd let someone have a holy item without them spending Refresh on it.

(I know I assumed it cost 3 on Lily's character sheet. She was strapped for Refresh, and ACaEBG costing 3 is a valid interpretation so I went with it.)

Anyway, I figured that using ACaEBG constantly would probably cost a combat character about half a dozen FP each session on average, once you factor in zombie mobs and other such threats. But using ACaEBG on everything isn't the best idea, so a small discount seemed appropriate.

That's how I got a cost of 9 Refresh. It's still cheaper than Mythic Toughness + Recovery, which it trumps utterly, so I don't think it's too overpriced.

PS: There's a Power-nullifying Power over on the Custom Power thread. Go take a look if that sort of thing interests you.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 05, 2013, 08:51:50 PM
Upon a reread, I feel like Numerical Prodigy should provide a bit more of a combat bonus. I mean, in the Number Man's interlude and all of his combat appearances, he's clearly using his power to aid his combat effectiveness (meticulous dodges, ricocheting sniper shots, etc).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 06, 2013, 04:53:55 AM
That's all FP and Declarations and Precognition, way I see it.

PS: In case someone here doesn't know, there's a Worm PBP game (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39103.0.html) in the works.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 06, 2013, 04:59:10 AM
That's all FP and Declarations and Precognition, way I see it.

PS: In case someone here doesn't know, there's a Worm PBP game (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39103.0.html) in the works.

Yes. One I was hoping you'd get involved in.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 06, 2013, 09:20:30 PM
Quick request- Armsmaster/Defiant, Miss Militia, Marquis, Vista, Aegis, Shatterbird, Canary, Narwhal, and Glory Girl.

Most of those are probably going to be Incite Effect.

I'd put Teacher and Clockblocker in there, but you would probably need to write a Power-granting-Power for Teacher, and Clockblocker is probably unstattable.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 07, 2013, 04:10:56 AM
I'm going to have to turn down Vista because space-warping is a bugger to do right.

Can't do Narwhal or Marquis either, because we know little about them.

The others I can do. Might be a while before I have time though.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 07, 2013, 04:17:11 AM
I get it about Marquis, yeah. Despite getting an Interlude out him, we don't know a ton about him. Certainly not enough for a skill pyramid.


Narwhal, however, seems to just be Incite Effect (Forcefields, With Discipline)(Range, Physical, Potent, Protective, Restrictive, Mass, Selective, Persistent), Supernatural Toughness with a Catch of anything that would bypass a forcefield, and possibly one stunt adding +2 to the Weapon rating of her Incite Effect if she's bypassing the Manton effect with it, and another adding +2 to her defenses with it.

Those are just my interpretations of her powers, though. I don't know a ton about her skills or her aspects.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 07, 2013, 05:36:02 AM
Maybe, maybe not. No way to tell, since we've never seen her do much of anything.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 07, 2013, 01:40:01 PM
Okay, given the awesome contents of Cockroaches 28.4, the Simurgh probably deserves a stunt or something that lets her assemble machines via telekinesis. Or that was just an interesting description of a telekinetic attack.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 08, 2013, 04:12:31 AM
Well, she has Superb Craftsmanship and Magical Worksite. But what she did there goes beyond that...I'm not really sure how to stat her apparent ability to build supernaturally-effective devices in combat time.

A stunt letting someone attack with Craftsmanship in a really flashy way would be my normal approach, but that won't work here because her normal attack skill is better than her Craftsmanship. Really, I dunno how to model that.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 09, 2013, 12:43:31 AM
I'd just call it a fancy way of describing her doing a maneuver, possibly a multi-maneuver with her telekinesis, and then a fancy description of tagging an aspect like DEBRIS GUNS on her Weapon:10 telekinesis.


I'm rereading the archives, and man (the spoiler is spoilery),
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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 09, 2013, 03:27:37 AM
Here's a start on Miss Militia, Glory Girl, and Aegis.

I wanted to give Glory Girl a mental aura attack, but she doesn't have the Refresh. Superb Intimidation and Aura Of Influence will have to do.

Pretty happy with the Powers here, but the Aspects are probably gonna need rewording.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 10, 2013, 05:15:34 AM
Aegis and Glory Girl, both as they were when the series started.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 11, 2013, 05:00:50 AM
Miss Militia and Canary.

I had some trouble with Canary's skills, since she doesn't really have many. Socially she's fine but not impressive. The Birdcage ensured that she doesn't have money or connections. She's not a fighter, and physically she's nothing special. Obviously she's a skilled singer, though. And I figure living in the Birdcage will toughen you up mentally, so Discipline is her second skill.

Miss Militia would have had more combat stunts near the start of the story, but she's a PRT Director now so most of her job is administration. I doubt she fights much these days.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 13, 2013, 12:34:07 AM
I might have given Canary full Enthrallment, considering how worried some people seem to be about her power.

Also, upon a reread, the Number Man is apparently a pretty competent gunman. A stunt letting him use Scholarship with the +2 bonus from Numerical Prodigy to attack with ranged weapons might be in order.


Also, because this might end up being relevant for a game, Numerical Prodigy is as expensive as Evocation because not only does it throw down some fairly large bonuses, that last +2 is pretty broadly applicable?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 13, 2013, 03:44:39 AM
I haven't seen any reason to believe that Canary is capable of enslaving people.

The Number Man should indeed be good with guns, and if his stats weren't so old they would reflect that. But that stunt would be very overpowered.

And yes, Numerical Prodigy is expensive because it gives lots of bonuses. Some are large and some are broad.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 13, 2013, 03:59:56 AM
I haven't seen any reason to believe that Canary is capable of enslaving people.

She's powerful enough to be able to it on accident. It's then entire reason she was imprisoned, remember? (Heh, the Canary is in the Birdcage).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 13, 2013, 04:46:14 AM
She didn't enslave him, she just made him hurt himself. Which is within the range of take-out effects I'd let her have with Incite Effect.

And I beat you to the pun. Look at her Trouble.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 14, 2013, 03:59:32 AM
So, any ideas vis-a-vis Shatterbird? I think Ritual is the only way to model her macrohyalokinesis.

(I am a master of latin roots.)

That, or you can hack the version of Macrohydrokinesis you have into something workable.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 14, 2013, 04:48:08 AM
I'm torn between Incite Effect + Wings and Telekinesis + Strength for modelling Shatterbird's main tricks. The city-wide attack will probably be a custom -2 upgrade for Natural Weaponry or Incite Effect...it's very powerful, but it's kind of crude and not terribly useful in most situations so the cost doesn't have to be huge.

Ritual might be better though, now that you mention it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 14, 2013, 05:17:28 AM
Something like this?

Incite Effect (Silicakinesis, with Discipline) (At Range) [-2]
Telekinesis (Enhanced, Defensive, Area, Selective, Potent, Self Propelling, Mythic Strength) [-14]
Limitation [+?, I have no idea how to price that but it's probably at least Severe] that your telekinesis only works on silicates and silicon based material (glass, sand, etc.)


Wow. That version is playable in a Submerged game if that's actually a Severe Limitation.

EDIT: Actually, a stunt might be in order.

Razorstorm (Discipline): A bunch of supersonic glass shards isn't fun for people who aren't wearing armor. Against unarmored targets, your Telekinetic attacks using glass deal +2 stress.

Yes, that puts her at Weapon:12 but Shatterbird is noted several times, in setting, to be unwholesomely powerful. Her and the Siberian are the Nine's big guns.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 14, 2013, 06:43:34 AM
I was thinking Incite Effect or Telekinesis, not both.

That's not a severe Limitation. Honestly I'm not even sure it's moderate. Shatterbird's reliance on silicon never really prevents her from flying or attacking or defending herself, since there's usually glass or at least sand around and she wears a glass costume.

I think Mythic Strength is too much. Shatterbird's attacks are probably no more than weapon 6 given how much trouble she had hurting Hookwolf and given that she fails to kill any Undersiders or Travellers when they fight her.

Her main strengths are versatility and area-of-effect, plus Cauldron thinks she might be able to damage the crystal-bodied Endbringers. But she's not really stronger than, say, Crawler.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 15, 2013, 09:18:25 PM
Hmm. I just thought Cauldron was interested in her because her power, despite being a fluke, was almost ridiculously versatile and destructive. I never considered her being able to directly damage an Endbringer. The Siberian would probably rip one of them to shreds until she hit the point where their bodies start to break universal laws on how matter works.

Well, that's most of the more interesting members of the Nine done. I'd be interested in a writeup of Screamer and Winter.

EDIT: Actually, it just occurred to me that we might actually need writeups of a lot of members of the Nine for the Worm game that's being put together. I'm assuming the characters would have at least some part in the events of the Sting arc, and that involves basically every member of the Nine, past and present. I'd be willing to at least try Breed, Murder Rat, and Crimson.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 16, 2013, 06:19:42 AM
I dunno about Screamer and Winter. Their powers aren't too tricky, but they're bit characters that we know little about. Maybe I'll do them, maybe not.

I don't know whether we'll need Nine stats in the PbP. We don't even have a time period for play, after all.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: finnmckool on September 16, 2013, 03:15:36 PM
I think the meanest, sneakiest and easiest way to do Siberian is to make an actual thing that reflects what her power DOES, not it's effect. Siberian isn't super strong or super tough
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. Siberian, instead, if I understand her power correctly, just allows it to cheat with physics (though I'm not clear enough in getting whether it's gravity, inertia, or whatever to draw this up entirely). But the mechanical gist of it, to my thinking, is that Siberian essentially gets to add or subtract shifts to physical attacks. Add that to being
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and therefore immune to lots of mental or stranger type attacks and Siberian APPEARS immune to everything and super strong and blah blah.  So maybe the key is to make a power that allows Siberian to unfairly apply shifts however she feels. Is it mechanically unfair? Yes. But that's kinda the overall point. Some people get exceedingly unfair powers.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 16, 2013, 09:50:24 PM
I don't follow.

How is "applying shifts" different from getting bonuses to your dice rolls?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Ursine Enigma on September 17, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
For Siberian, Physical Immunity without a catch would be unfair enough;  add
claws & All Equal before God, a couple of Speed & Strength powers & your players will weep sweet candy tears.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 17, 2013, 02:04:32 AM
For Siberian, Physical Immunity without a catch would be unfair enough;  add
claws & All Equal before God, a couple of Speed & Strength powers & your players will weep sweet candy tears.

PI has a Catch.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on September 17, 2013, 02:10:21 AM
I might just give a power that lets her ignore "X" shift borders.  I mean, she walks through/over pretty much anything.  Just say that she can go through any 8 shift zone border with no problems.  Assume there might collateral damage based on how she to go through it (whether she's walking though walls or jumping over a wall).  Her ability to do that kind of thing really has nothing to do with Strength anyways.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 17, 2013, 02:27:55 AM
I'm with Sanctaphrax on this, actually. Give her a version of All Creatures are Equal Before God that's always on, Physical Immunity with a Catch of attacks on WM, Potent Natural Weaponry and Mythic Strength. Max out her Fists, Endurance, and Might. Done. You've created a character who can lift/break anything in the game without even rolling most of the time, is completely invulnerable, and hits so hard, freight train accidents think their mother has finally come home. Weapon:10 isn't as big a deal in the Wormverse as it is in the Dresdenverse, but then it hits you that it's Weapon:10 and nothing getting hit by it gets any Toughness. I don't know how to model her ability to extend her invulnerability. We're probably going to have to bite the bullet and write a Power-granting-Power at some point.


Honestly? I don't even know that I would use that writeup against my players. I can think of one or two ways for the characters in the Worm PbP up there to beat it as they're currently written, but it's still a nigh-impossible fight.

Which is true to the real Siberian, actually.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on September 17, 2013, 06:28:56 AM
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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 17, 2013, 02:01:33 PM
Okay, given the recent Interlude, the Simurgh and possibly a few of the other Endbringers might deserve some stuff beyond Thaumaturgy. Spoiler thing below.


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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: finnmckool on September 17, 2013, 02:43:01 PM
You give the character the option of applying them however they like, any time they like to whatever's relevant (though it seems to only work on the physical based things). You're also TAKING AWAY shifts from your opponent as you wish. You're manipulating the actual game rules or "physical universe," recreate the actual power rather than the effect of added strength, speed, yadda yadda yadda. In short, come up with a base package and just allow her to add or subtract from her or whoever's touching her. That way it's an elegant effect without having to haggle over every stat.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Caesar on September 17, 2013, 10:35:28 PM
I was just re-reading the thread when I reached the Crawler entry. Sancta is right that Mythic Recovery doesn't really cover his regeneration but it occurs to me that you could probably model it with Physical Immunity and a Catch of things that effect him on a molecular level.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 18, 2013, 05:52:05 AM
Maybe, but PI makes attacking completely pointless. Shredding the Crawler at least slows him down.

I guess you could include that in the Catch or a Limitation or something, though. Or maybe you could represent all attacks on him as maneuvers.

Actually, that sounds like a good idea.

Hmm. I just thought Cauldron was interested in her because her power, despite being a fluke, was almost ridiculously versatile and destructive. I never considered her being able to directly damage an Endbringer. The Siberian would probably rip one of them to shreds until she hit the point where their bodies start to break universal laws on how matter works.

Forgot to address this before, but Cauldron never actually said they thought she could take apart an Endbringer. A reader mentioned the idea and I just sort of assumed they were right, because how else could Shatterbird take down Behemoth?

And while the Siberian could probably tear up an Endbringer in close combat, I doubt (s)he could get close without dying.

Okay, given the recent Interlude, the Simurgh and possibly a few of the other Endbringers might deserve some stuff beyond Thaumaturgy. Spoiler thing below.


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The hallucinations could be an Incite Effect or an application of her aura. Or maybe Telepathy.

I dunno about Pack Instincts, but the Simurgh does need some method of communicating with the Endbringers long-distance. Maybe she also deserves a LEADER OF THE ENDBRINGERS Aspect, since the others seem to obey her.

I might just give a power that lets her ignore "X" shift borders.  I mean, she walks through/over pretty much anything.  Just say that she can go through any 8 shift zone border with no problems.  Assume there might collateral damage based on how she to go through it (whether she's walking though walls or jumping over a wall).  Her ability to do that kind of thing really has nothing to do with Strength anyways.

Well, if you had enough Strength I'd let you knock down walls as a supplemental action while sprinting. But I guess the Siberian goes beyond that...if Alexandria dropped a 10-shift grapple on the Siberian, it would accomplish nothing at all.

Maybe an upgraded version of Teleportation?

You give the character the option of applying them however they like, any time they like to whatever's relevant (though it seems to only work on the physical based things). You're also TAKING AWAY shifts from your opponent as you wish. You're manipulating the actual game rules or "physical universe," recreate the actual power rather than the effect of added strength, speed, yadda yadda yadda. In short, come up with a base package and just allow her to add or subtract from her or whoever's touching her. That way it's an elegant effect without having to haggle over every stat.

I guess you could do something like that, but writing a new Power that does something that new to the game would be a lot of work.

More Siberian thoughts next post.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 18, 2013, 06:18:34 AM
Here's my list of things that make the Siberian hard to stat:

1. Limitless strength.

Mythic Strength is almost enough to represent this, but Mythic Strength doesn't let you totally ignore blocks and theoretically it is possible to encounter a lifting roll with a difficulty above what Mythic Strength makes easy.

I'm thinking always-on ACaEBG and maybe a new Teleportation upgrade that lets you ignore blocks by smashing them rather than teleporting through them. If the Siberian encounters something (s)he can't lift, it's probably too big for them to make invulnerable so (s)he just tears it up if (s)he tries to move it...but maybe a -1 Power building off of Mythic Strength would be worthwhile anyway.

2. Two bodies, one a projection.

There's nothing in canon that lets you be in two places at once. Some homebrew comes close, though.

This requires a new Power. Fortunately it would be pretty easy to write that new Power. I'm thinking a -1 Power that lets you project a second body. Taking actions with both would require you to use spray attack rules. The projection would be created near you, but could move up to maybe a mile away. It would share your stress tracks, but any stress it takes would hit your mental track. You could dismiss it as a supplemental action, so it'd be easy to run if your projection lost a fight.

3. Ability to share invulnerability.

Power sharing doesn't exist in this game.

I don't really want to write Power-sharing. My last attempt wasn't very good. So I think I'll just ignore this if and when I write up the Siberian.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Caesar on September 18, 2013, 11:34:51 AM
On the Crawler thing: regenerating most of his upper anatomy took him like second, IIRC. Also, the Noose seems to grant Nicodemus ridiculous regen and that's statted as PI. Attacks as maneuvers does sound like a good idea, though.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: finnmckool on September 18, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
It's true that she's gotta be pretty homebrewed for 1 and 3, but I think the basic mechanics exist, it's just finding the right way to utilize them into a terrifying ability. But above all, don't be balanced! If anything, Worm's all about how unfair powers are.

As for 2, I agree wholeheartedly. It's not that 2 places at once is impossible, to my way of thinking, but that we have no idea how vulnerable
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is while he's controlling Siberian. How present is he? He seemed to be driving a van and operating her at the same time but how hard was that? So that's where it gets sticky. Can you distract him to lose control? It's hard because it seemed NO ONE knew Siberian had a handler until the S9's came to Brocton, so there's nothing to go on.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on September 18, 2013, 09:26:26 PM
When I mentioned ignoring block, I was specifically thinking of a re-skinned teleportation.

Power sharing and 2 bodies:
Couldn't she just have an aspect that people invoke for effect?  Like thaumaturgy.  She spends a FP for each one she wants to protect, or they can spend their own.  It's hard, though...most of these villains don't have FP's.

I wonder if Thaumaturgy isn't the best solution for Siberian, given what she is.  Maybe use some of your complicated summoning rules.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 18, 2013, 09:59:30 PM
Note that i'm basically going to go full spoilers regarding the Siberian from here. If you aren't past Prey, you might want to skip this post.





What, that Manton can perform one extremely specific Summoning, only for this one creature? That's a little silly. If he could summon a bunch of Siberians, that would make more sense.


If you meant the Companion rules, that's slightly more workable. Writing up William Manton using those rules would allow him to have all the skills and such of one of the world's foremost specialists in parahumans, and also be the Siberian. Ironically, he'd be a super-beefed up version of your writeup of Bitch.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on September 18, 2013, 10:47:01 PM
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*throwing random idea*

Thinking about sharing powers:

What about a stunt or power that lets her defend against effects using "x" skill.  The defense sets up a zone-wide maneuver that other people can tag for effect.  Use spin rules to have extra shifts add extra tags.

Example:  The giant fire-ball comes towards Siberian, Bone-saw and Jack.  Everyone rolls to defend.  Siberian rolls to defend but that defense sets up an aspect.  If she rolls higher than the attack it means she's managed to get to Bone-saw and Jack fast enough to protect them with her immunity. Mechanically, Jack and bone-saw's players invoke for effect the aspect created by Siberian.

Failure to get enough tags represents the Siberian not getting there on time or, perhaps, the other characters unable to compensate for her abilities...like when Cherish and Jack use Siberian's powers to jump off a building and cushion the landing.  Cherish wasn't quite used to it.

Edit:
Or let her forgo her defense and grant it to someone else.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 19, 2013, 12:51:11 AM
So basically, the Siberian has a stunt that lets her reflexively create an aspect that can be tagged by others that lets them use one of her Powers. I like it.


Incidentally, that might not be a bad basis for a power-granting power.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 19, 2013, 01:48:04 AM
Power sharing and 2 bodies:
Couldn't she just have an aspect that people invoke for effect?  Like thaumaturgy.  She spends a FP for each one she wants to protect, or they can spend their own.  It's hard, though...most of these villains don't have FP's.

I wonder if Thaumaturgy isn't the best solution for Siberian, given what she is.  Maybe use some of your complicated summoning rules.

You can do everything with Invokes for Effect. Literally everything. If you removed Skills and Stunts and Powers and dice from this game, you could still a run a working game just with invocations.

But invocations are a bit of a crude tool. They don't have the reliability or the interesting interactions that Powers have. It's not good to rely on them.

And Thaumaturgy is way too flexible for the Siberian. Manton has one trick, and Ritual provides hundreds of tricks.

If you meant the Companion rules, that's slightly more workable. Writing up William Manton using those rules would allow him to have all the skills and such of one of the world's foremost specialists in parahumans, and also be the Siberian. Ironically, he'd be a super-beefed up version of your writeup of Bitch.

That could work, but the companion rules were intended to limit one's control over one's companion. Which is inappropriate here.

Also, I don't like the companion rules very much.

Thinking about sharing powers:

What about a stunt or power that lets her defend against effects using "x" skill.  The defense sets up a zone-wide maneuver that other people can tag for effect.  Use spin rules to have extra shifts add extra tags.

Example:  The giant fire-ball comes towards Siberian, Bone-saw and Jack.  Everyone rolls to defend.  Siberian rolls to defend but that defense sets up an aspect.  If she rolls higher than the attack it means she's managed to get to Bone-saw and Jack fast enough to protect them with her immunity. Mechanically, Jack and bone-saw's players invoke for effect the aspect created by Siberian.

Failure to get enough tags represents the Siberian not getting there on time or, perhaps, the other characters unable to compensate for her abilities...like when Cherish and Jack use Siberian's powers to jump off a building and cushion the landing.  Cherish wasn't quite used to it.

It's an interesting idea, but totally no-selling an attack often won't be a fair use of a tag. So with this idea, either the GM would have to let tags be used for too much effect or the Siberian's power would have to be unreliable.

I think this idea would fit another character better.

Edit:
Or let her forgo her defense and grant it to someone else.

I like this idea. The Siberian is invincible, so if they sacrifice their defence it doesn't matter. And they can take hits for other characters endlessly, without actually getting hurt.

(The main appeal of this approach is that it doesn't require a Power-granting Power.)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 24, 2013, 03:00:51 AM
I was talking about writing a projection Power for Siberian (and Genesis, and everyone else with that trick), and now I'm doing exactly that.

PROJECTION [-2]
Description: You can create a second body out of nothing and control it like a puppet.
Skills Affected: All.
Effects:
Projection. As a full action, you may create a projection. A projection is a second body that may move away from your main body. Your projection shares your skills and Stunts and Powers, but doesn't necessarily have to look like you. It does have to have a consistent appearance unless it can shapeshift, but that appearance can be just about anything. If you want to act with both your main body and your projection in a single exchange, you must divide up your shifts as if making a spray attack. Your projection must say within a mile of your main body or it dissolves. You can dissolve it intentionally as a supplemental action. You can only can have one projection at a time. Your projection has its own physical stress track, but you share mental and social stress tracks as well as consequence slots.
Multiple Projections [-1]. You can have up to 6 projections. One action suffices to create them all.
Skilled Projection [-1]. You and your projection(s) have different skills. Draw up a projection skill pyramid using the same number of points as your regular pyramid, in accordance with your skill cap. Your projection(s) may not be better than you at any knowledge or social skill, but they may certainly be more perceptive or more physically adept than you. If you want your projection(s) to have Stunts/Powers you don't or vice versa, use Limitation.

Not thrilled with the wording, but I guess it'll do.

Upped the cost to 2 because sitting safely in your house while attacking people is a pretty sweet deal. Changed my plan w/ regard to stress, since the previous idea interacted weirdly with Toughness.

Feedback would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 24, 2013, 03:25:13 AM
I was talking about writing a projection Power for Siberian (and Genesis, and everyone else with that trick), and now I'm doing exactly that.

PROJECTION [-2]
Description: You can create a second body out of nothing and control it like a puppet.
Skills Affected: All.
Effects:
Projection. As a full action, you may create a projection. A projection is a second body that may move away from your main body. Your projection shares your skills and Stunts and Powers, but doesn't necessarily have to look like you. It does have to have a consistent appearance unless it can shapeshift, but that appearance can be just about anything. If you want to act with both your main body and your projection in a single exchange, you must divide up your shifts as if making a spray attack. Your projection must say within a mile of your main body or it dissolves. You can dissolve it intentionally as a supplemental action. You can only can have one projection at a time. Your projection has its own physical stress track, but you share mental and social stress tracks as well as consequence slots.
Multiple Projections [-1]. You can have up to 6 projections. One action suffices to create them all.
Skilled Projection [-1]. You and your projection(s) have different skills. Draw up a projection skill pyramid using the same number of points as your regular pyramid, in accordance with your skill cap. Your projection(s) may not be better than you at any knowledge or social skill, but they may certainly be more perceptive or more physically adept than you. If you want your projection(s) to have Stunts/Powers you don't or vice versa, use Limitation.

Not thrilled with the wording, but I guess it'll do.

Upped the cost to 2 because sitting safely in your house while attacking people is a pretty sweet deal. Changed my plan w/ regard to stress, since the previous idea interacted weirdly with Toughness.

Feedback would be fantastic.

Okay, this is really goddamn powerful. It's an excellent power for the Siberian, but I have no idea how this works with Genesis. Does she have Variable Abilities, using the Discount Omnipotence and the General Shapeshifter list, along with the Limitation(s) that they only apply to her projections and she needs to be asleep to project? That's how I would do it.

-Sharing non-physical stress tracks is smart.

-You may or may not want to price up Multiple Projections, because that gets exponentially more powerful the more Refresh you spend on Powers for the projections. Additionally, do the spray attack rules regarding controlling your main body and your projection in the same exchange apply if i'm trying to control multiple projections? For example, WM triggers again and can now project three Siberians. If he tells one to punch Alexandria in the face, one to do the Single Ladies dance, and the other one to juggle cars, without taking any actions himself, do any of the projections take a penalty? I feel like they shouldn't.

-Okay, good to have the Beast Change caveats on Skilled Projections. If i take that sub-Power more than once, can I get more than one pyramid for my projections? What if my projections have True Shapeshifting?

Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: UmbraLux on September 24, 2013, 03:34:58 AM
Feedback would be fantastic.
Given the way both Siberian's and Genesis' powers worked, you might add a discount (perhaps +1 or so) for each power that only applies to the projection.  Perhaps even a requirement for powers to apply only to the projection if you're emulation those two characters.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 24, 2013, 04:15:59 AM
Does she have Variable Abilities, using the Discount Omnipotence and the General Shapeshifter list, along with the Limitation(s) that they only apply to her projections and she needs to be asleep to project? That's how I would do it.

Something like that, yeah. I'll probably give her True Shapeshifting and no Discount Omnipotence though.

-You may or may not want to price up Multiple Projections, because that gets exponentially more powerful the more Refresh you spend on Powers for the projections. Additionally, do the spray attack rules regarding controlling your main body and your projection in the same exchange apply if i'm trying to control multiple projections? For example, WM triggers again and can now project three Siberians. If he tells one to punch Alexandria in the face, one to do the Single Ladies dance, and the other one to juggle cars, without taking any actions himself, do any of the projections take a penalty? I feel like they shouldn't.

They all have to do their actions using the same pool of shifts. Honestly, they'd probably be better off just having one Siberian punch Alexandria while the other two stood still.

Multiple Projections is not meant to be a multiple action Power. It's meant to be a "be in five places at once" Power.

Now that I think about it though, it might be overpowered. Send in one projection to attack, it gets killed. Then do it again. Heck, you might even be able to do that with the base Power.

I should do something about that possibility...the Power isn't supposed to work that way.

-Okay, good to have the Beast Change caveats on Skilled Projections. If i take that sub-Power more than once, can I get more than one pyramid for my projections? What if my projections have True Shapeshifting?

You can only buy it once. True Shapeshifting makes it useless.

Given the way both Siberian's and Genesis' powers worked, you might add a discount (perhaps +1 or so) for each power that only applies to the projection.  Perhaps even a requirement for powers to apply only to the projection if you're emulation those two characters.

Oh, hey. I didn't know you read Worm.

Anyway, I'm inclined to use Limitation for that. Lets me do less Power-writing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 24, 2013, 04:20:22 AM
So...UmbraLux.


Are you interested in GM'ing?


*coy glance*
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 24, 2013, 04:25:21 AM
So...UmbraLux.


Are you interested in GM'ing?


*coy glance*

*adds Oliver Twist face*
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: UmbraLux on September 24, 2013, 10:18:56 PM
So...UmbraLux.


Are you interested in GM'ing?


*coy glance*
Hehe, I do GM...not Worm though.  :)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 24, 2013, 10:34:19 PM
Hehe, I do GM...not Worm though.  :)

Blargh. Curses. I suppose I can sympathize, however. GM'ing a Wormverse game would probably be significantly more difficult, if only because you have to come up with so many capes.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 24, 2013, 10:38:05 PM
Hehe, I do GM...not Worm though.  :)

First time for everything? O:-)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 25, 2013, 05:48:41 AM
In all seriousness, it would be great to have you on board.

I've never played with you, but from talking with you here I know that you know your stuff. Your style is a bit different from mine, but not so different that I couldn't adjust.

I don't want to pressure you or anything, though. If you don't want to, you don't want to.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 25, 2013, 07:52:34 AM
Projection v2. Hope this is better than Projection v1.

PROJECTION [-2]
Description: You can create a second body out of nothing and control it like a puppet.
Skills Affected: All.
Effects:
Projection. As a full action, you may create a projection. A projection is a second body that may move away from your main body. Your projection shares your skills and Stunts and Powers, but doesn't necessarily have to look like you. It does have to have a consistent appearance unless it can shapeshift, but that appearance can be just about anything. Your projection must stay within a mile of your main body or it dissolves. You can dissolve it intentionally as a supplemental action. You can only can have one projection at a time.
Multiple Actions. Each of your bodies can act once each exchange. When taking multiple actions in a single exchange, you must divide up your shifts as if making a spray attack. If the actions would use different skill totals, use the lowest one for the combined action.
Destroyable Projection. Your projection has its own physical stress track, but you share mental and social stress tracks as well as consequence slots. Stress inflicted to your projection lingers even if you dismiss the projection, though it clears at the end of the scene as normal. If your projection is taken out, you can't re-create it for the rest of the day.
Multiple Projections [-1]. You can have up to 6 projections. One action suffices to create them all. They all share a single physical stress track.
Skilled Projection [-1]. You and your projection(s) have different skills. Draw up a projection skill pyramid using the same number of points as your regular pyramid, in accordance with your skill cap. Your projection(s) may not be better than you at any knowledge or social skill, but they may certainly be more perceptive or more physically adept than you. If you want your projection(s) to have Stunts/Powers you don't or vice versa, use Limitation.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 25, 2013, 10:11:16 AM
Okay, the Siberian's done.

Sort of.

I'm considering meddling with Projection further. Not sure it's necessary for a dead projection to stay dead so long, plus I want to restrict Skilled Projection a bit more and I think I should make clear that you have to create the projection in your zone.

Limitation gets kind of silly when you attach it to this much stuff. +27 Refresh? Seriously?

Unstoppable Non-Teleportation (which makes her un-grapple-able and lets her walk through walls), All Creatures (And Objects) Are Equal Before Me (which lets her tear up people and buildings as if they were paper), and Tank (which lets her take hits in place of her allies) will eventually get written up.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: UmbraLux on September 26, 2013, 02:39:10 AM
In all seriousness, it would be great to have you on board.

I've never played with you, but from talking with you here I know that you know your stuff. Your style is a bit different from mine, but not so different that I couldn't adjust.

I don't want to pressure you or anything, though. If you don't want to, you don't want to.
I like Worm as a story, it's the best web serial I've seen and a well written story in it's own right.  However I'm not sure I'd enjoy a game in the setting.  Fighting not to be a doormat makes a good story and possibly even a one or two shot game.  (I'd suggest using Fiasco.  ;) )  It wouldn't be as fun as a campaign.  I tend to prefer systems/setting biased towards PC success.  Just a matter of preferences though, I'm sure you can find a group who'd enjoy being kicked around by the Simurgh.   :D
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 26, 2013, 03:04:24 AM
I like Worm as a story, it's the best web serial I've seen and a well written story in it's own right.  However I'm not sure I'd enjoy a game in the setting.  Fighting not to be a doormat makes a good story and possibly even a one or two shot game.  (I'd suggest using Fiasco.  ;) )  It wouldn't be as fun as a campaign.  I tend to prefer systems/setting biased towards PC success.  Just a matter of preferences though, I'm sure you can find a group who'd enjoy being kicked around by the Simurgh.   :D

Well. Kicked around? Maybe. But we have at least one PC (mine) who is completely and without question immune to her song.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 26, 2013, 08:54:28 AM
Huh. I actually have the opposite concern about this game, that the power level has been set so high that we'll just steamroll everything. As I may have mentioned, I would have preferred playing with weaker characters.

(If we do fight the Endbringers, we'll need to give them more durability. Mythic Toughness won't cut it against us.)

Any thoughts on the Siberian?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 29, 2013, 08:07:31 AM
Slightly saddened by the lack of comment on the Siberian. That one was a lot of work, and I'm not sure I did everything right.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 29, 2013, 05:08:24 PM
The powers look good, but a few of the stunts are little weird to me.

-Can't Block Me (Fists): When attacking through Projection, Fists attacks count as bullets for the purpose of selecting blocking skills.

Thematically appropriate, but dictating an opponent's skill roll makes me a little uncomfortable. I understand that you're not supposed to be able to block the Siberian, but still.

-Nobody Knows They Should Be Looking For Me (Stealth): +2 to Stealth in normal body against people who don't know his secret.

This is too broad. It should only apply if he's deliberately trying to conceal that he's the Siberian.

-Power Analysis (Scholarship): May use Scholarship, including Parahuman Researcher bonus, to analyse powers and determine their true nature.

Is this necessary at all? It adds a trapping, which is an appropriate use for a stunt, but the Lore skill might already serve this purpose in the Wormverse. If it is necessary, Taylor should almost certainly have it, because she makes a habit of comprehensively analyzing the powers of everyone she fights/encounters.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 30, 2013, 09:17:10 AM
-Can't Block Me (Fists): When attacking through Projection, Fists attacks count as bullets for the purpose of selecting blocking skills.

Thematically appropriate, but dictating an opponent's skill roll makes me a little uncomfortable. I understand that you're not supposed to be able to block the Siberian, but still.

I hesitated to include this, but then I remembered that the Siberian could get this effect plus three zones of range for half the price by attaching Ranged to Natural Weaponry. So if that's OK, then this must be OK too.

-Nobody Knows They Should Be Looking For Me (Stealth): +2 to Stealth in normal body against people who don't know his secret.

This is too broad. It should only apply if he's deliberately trying to conceal that he's the Siberian.

You're right, it's too broad. I wanted to include a Stealth stunt because Manton went for years without anyone being able to find him, but...this was a poor attempt.

Unfortunately, Stealth isn't used to conceal one's identity. So that restriction won't work, unless I'm misunderstanding your meaning. Any other ideas?

-Power Analysis (Scholarship): May use Scholarship, including Parahuman Researcher bonus, to analyse powers and determine their true nature.

Is this necessary at all? It adds a trapping, which is an appropriate use for a stunt, but the Lore skill might already serve this purpose in the Wormverse. If it is necessary, Taylor should almost certainly have it, because she makes a habit of comprehensively analyzing the powers of everyone she fights/encounters.

The idea is that Manton's analysis goes deeper than that. He was able to determine that Rachel's power would work better with a wolf than with a dog. Despite never actually haven spoken to her or performed any formal analysis of her.

Taylor would never have been able to do that. There wasn't any direct evidence that her power would work better (or at all) with wolves. So Manton must have been using his (Stunt-assisted) deeper insight into the nature of parahuman powers.

Maybe I should rewrite the stunt to make that clear. Not sure exactly how to do so, though.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on September 30, 2013, 01:08:08 PM
Excellent point on the no-blocking-me stunt.


Deceit is generally used to conceal your identity. A +2 bonus to Deceit in his normal body to conceal that he's the Siberian.

Hmm. I thought Bastard was just a symbolic gift. I didn't consider that Manton had considered how Rachel's power would work on a more atavistic canine.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 01, 2013, 07:34:49 AM
He's already got some Deceit mojo. But since he was able to slip away from Legend, follow the Nine without being detected for years, and spy unnoticed on Rachel, I want to give him some Stealth as well.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 02, 2013, 02:58:04 AM
Use a stunt that shifts the "lying/disguise" trapping of Deceit over to Stealth when he's using those trappings to hide that he's the Siberian. Two birds with one stone.

Also, was it just me who was confused by the interaction between Rachel's power and Lab Rat's device? From what I understood, Bastard was making the transition into a kaiju.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 02, 2013, 03:45:33 AM
He already has a stunt letting him use Intimidation for hiding his identity. And using Stealth instead of Deceit wouldn't let him hide better physically. So that wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 07, 2013, 02:06:34 AM
So I've been thinking about Emma Barnes lately, and how the two years between Taylor being outed and
(click to show/hide)
must have been really horrid for her. I mean, being known as the person who bullied a poor girl until she became a super-villain is unlikely to be good for your interactions with people. Combined with the fact that she had to worry about every bug being Taylor coming to get revenge, and well, you've got a pretty hellish life. I'm almost sorry for her.

Except. Well. She did it completely to herself. Not only that, but she made just a little less time than that even more hellish for Taylor, culminating into her triggering
(click to show/hide)
, something explicitly mentioned to require really bad days. So I might have been sorry for her, except for the fact that a) she totally did it to herself and b) speaking as someone who used to be bullied, she *totally* earned it.

Suck it, Emma Barnes. Time to pay the piper.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 15, 2013, 11:17:07 PM
So! Following this little gem (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2013/10/15/speck-30-1), Taylor has become unstattable! Yay!

Also, I think a revision of Lung's Limitation might be in order. He seems to be able to manually activate his transformation, it just goes faster when he's in combat. Maybe if he makes a Discipline roll of X, or tags an Aspect, he activates one tier of transformation?

And Marquis has some badass-ed-ness in this chapter, Sanctaphrax, if you were looking for a little more info on how he operates.


Oh, and Contessa finally got an interlude, which sort of proved that there's no way to stat her power.

PS: I think we were talking about how to model Eidolon in another thread? Mimic Abilities with the Limitation that the GM picks your powers might work. I'd actually call that a Moderate limitation at the very least.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on October 15, 2013, 11:26:59 PM
PS: I think we were talking about how to model Eidolon in another thread? Mimic Abilities with the Limitation that the GM picks your powers might work. I'd actually call that a Moderate limitation at the very least.

I'd just do modular abilities with an aspect attached to it where the gm uses a compel to choose the abilities.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 15, 2013, 11:56:18 PM
I feel like that's not a significant enough disadvantage. Eidolon very clearly can't stop his powers from changing if they so choose. He can slow it down or try to hold on, but it happens. Your way ends up with the most broken variable abilities list ever and the character sitting on a boatload of Fate Points.

Let's review how Eidolon's powers work, ignoring any "shard" speculation. This is the nitty-gritty.

-Eidolon can draw upon any number of powers. He can generally get either two or three powerful ones, or four or five comparatively weak ones.

-Eidolon doesn't get to choose which powers he gets, or when his powers change. He can release his powers voluntarily, but it can happen without any input from him. He can "reach" for a specific type, or try to hold on to a certain set, but in the end, it's not up to him what specific powers he gets.

-Eidolon instinctively understands the nuances of the powers he currently has, and knows how to use them.

-He may or may not be able to violate the Manton Effect, possibly only on a power-by-power basis.


I'm sticking with Mimic Abilities or Variable Abilities. One of his Aspects would probably be "My Powers Are Not Under My Control" or something like that. It'd get Compelled for unwanted power switches, and he could Invoke it to change his powers himself or reach for a specific power or powerset.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 16, 2013, 05:11:51 AM
I wouldn't say that Taylor's become unstattable. A custom Power that imposes a really hefty block on the actions of any person/parahuman (it's not clear) in her zone could represent the passive effect of her aura, and the active part could be represented with Incite Effect or another custom Power.

As for Eidolon, Mimic Abilities definitely won't work. He doesn't mimic.

Modular/Variable Abilities is closer, but it's not perfect. The main issue is that it doesn't represent Eidolon's lack of control, but there are other problems as well. Like the fact that swapping your powers with it takes a full round and the fact that every power is gained immediately at full strength.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 16, 2013, 09:23:35 PM
Spoilers for Speck 30.1 below.

(click to show/hide)

Anyway, regarding Eidolon, would Variable Abilities, a stunt that let him do supplemental action switches, and a Limitation along the lines of "can't control my powers, takes a while to power up (a la your writeup of Lung)" work?

Oh, and I'm working on approval to play a character with Projection, Sanctaphrax, over in SDC. Two questions: Can the projections act on the exchange that they're created, and how does Multiple Actions work?

Let's say I have three projections active. The original isn't doing anything. One of them is lifting a car out of the way and has Mythic Strength and Superb Might, and assuming a roll of 0, that's +17. One of them is lurking in the shadows keeping watch. He has Fantastic Stealth and Cloak of Shadows, so that's +8. One of them is tracking someone down from a bloodstain under the car, and has Hunter and Superb Survival, so that's Epic.

What happens? How are the shifts divided?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 17, 2013, 12:24:26 AM
Mimic Abilities doesn't work that way. You need to eat a chunk of someone in order to use their powers.

Supernatural Sense sounds like a good idea, though.

That could sort of work for Eidolon. Wouldn't be perfect, though. And honestly Limitation isn't really supposed to work that way. It shuts off your powers, it doesn't remove your control over them.

Oh, and I'm working on approval to play a character with Projection, Sanctaphrax, over in SDC. Two questions: Can the projections act on the exchange that they're created...

Huh, I thought you already had a character.

And no. Projecting a body is a full action.

...and how does Multiple Actions work?

Let's say I have three projections active. The original isn't doing anything. One of them is lifting a car out of the way and has Mythic Strength and Superb Might, and assuming a roll of 0, that's +17. One of them is lurking in the shadows keeping watch. He has Fantastic Stealth and Cloak of Shadows, so that's +8. One of them is tracking someone down from a bloodstain under the car, and has Hunter and Superb Survival, so that's Epic.

What happens? How are the shifts divided?

If all three are taking an action at the same time, then you take the lowest skill and divide the shifts using it. So you'd have 7 shifts to split between your actions.

That's not terribly impressive. Which is good, because it's not supposed to be any better than just taking a single action.

But there's another side to this. You only have to split your shifts if you're taking actions. If one of your projections is hiding in the shadows, he isn't necessarily taking an action to hide. He's hidden, it takes a Legendary roll to notice him, and that's that.

Plus some GMs (including me) would let you move cars with a supplemental action if you were that strong.

And if you're not in combat, then you don't usually have to worry about this stuff. If one body is tracking someone, then having it get distracted for ten seconds while another body moves a car doesn't really change anything. The tracking attempt isn't meaningfully impeded.

PS: I misspelled "stay" in the Projection write-up, but that's fixed now.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 17, 2013, 12:44:26 AM
Mimic Abilities doesn't work that way. You need to eat a chunk of someone in order to use their powers.

Supernatural Sense sounds like a good idea, though.
I'm of the opinion that Mimic Abilities isn't really versatile enough, by the RAW. And she's basically commandeering their powers, so to me, it fits. She would technically need NI points of it, however.

That could sort of work for Eidolon. Wouldn't be perfect, though. And honestly Limitation isn't really supposed to work that way. It shuts off your powers, it doesn't remove your control over them.
I was thinking of representing the lack of control with one of his Aspects, which would get compelled as necessary. Basically, he has to spend a Fate Point to pick his powers himself. Otherwise, it's up to the GM. Limitation is actually one of my favorite powers if only because it's so easily hacked into doing stuff like this.

Huh, I thought you already had a character.

And no. Projecting a body is a full action.
I'm making some additions/revisions to my character's Variable Abilities list. Projection is one of them.

Got it. Thanks.

If all three are taking an action at the same time, then you take the lowest skill and divide the shifts using it. So you'd have 7 shifts to split between your actions.

That's not terribly impressive. Which is good, because it's not supposed to be any better than just taking a single action.

But there's another side to this. You only have to split your shifts if you're taking actions. If one of your projections is hiding in the shadows, he isn't necessarily taking an action to hide. He's hidden, it takes a Legendary roll to notice him, and that's that.

Plus some GMs (including me) would let you move cars with a supplemental action if you were that strong.

And if you're not in combat, then you don't usually have to worry about this stuff. If one body is tracking someone, then having it get distracted for ten seconds while another body moves a car doesn't really change anything. The tracking attempt isn't meaningfully impeded.

PS: I misspelled "stay" in the Projection write-up, but that's fixed now.
Okay, that cleared it up pretty well. So the projections can take supplemental actions. Interesting. I thought that rolling Stealth to hide was an action. Is that one of those passive things?

This power isn't really meant to be an effective "whoop look at me i'm six dudes time to brawl" power, in my eyes. Multiple Bodies is better for that, and costs more accordingly.


Actually, the Multiple Projection power raised a few questions for me, both game and story-wise.
-What inspired it? As far as I can tell, the only character who might have it is Satyrical, and you wrote the power before we figured out the nuances of his power.
-Would an upgrade that basically turned it into a multiple-action power by doing away with the spray attack mechanic be out of the question? How would you cost it? I'm aware that multiple actions are a whole can of Lovecraftian worms, but I'd be interested in such an upgrade.
-How many times did William Manton trigger? Because if he takes a one-Refresh upgrade to his power, there are five more Siberians running around....

Actually, that last one might almost be a Wormverse children's story. "How The Siberian Six Killed Leviathan: Sink This, You Slimy Blue Bastard"
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 17, 2013, 04:11:53 AM
I'm of the opinion that Mimic Abilities isn't really versatile enough, by the RAW.

Really?

I can't say I agree with you there. I'd probably have to weaken it a bit if one of my players wanted to use it. Indefinite-duration skill-copying is just unfair.

I thought that rolling Stealth to hide was an action. Is that one of those passive things?

Once you're hidden you don't need to roll anymore, right?

The initial hiding attempt might not be possible in combat, and actions aren't really a thing outside of combat, so I'm not sure whether beginning to hide is an action. If you can do it in a fight it should be, though.

Actually, the Multiple Projection power raised a few questions for me, both game and story-wise.
-What inspired it? As far as I can tell, the only character who might have it is Satyrical, and you wrote the power before we figured out the nuances of his power.

I don't remember.

-Would an upgrade that basically turned it into a multiple-action power by doing away with the spray attack mechanic be out of the question? How would you cost it? I'm aware that multiple actions are a whole can of Lovecraftian worms, but I'd be interested in such an upgrade.

If I wanted to handle multiple actions with projected bodies, I'd probably just use a generic multiple action power with a Limitation.

The cost of a generic multiple action power would depend on how exactly it worked.

-How many times did William Manton trigger? Because if he takes a one-Refresh upgrade to his power, there are five more Siberians running around....

I don't think he triggered at all. He took a formula, right?

And honestly, six Siberians wouldn't be much more dangerous than one unless they could act independently. It's a -1 upgrade, after all, it shouldn't make anyone much scarier.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 19, 2013, 03:11:54 AM
Thinking a bit more about Projection...

Skilled Projection is problematic. If I reduce my Conviction and Scholarship to raise my projection's skills, what happens when I get hit with a mental attack while projecting? Does it depend on whether the projection is the one targeted? And what happens if I want to answer science questions while projecting?

I think it might be good to prohibit Skilled Projection from lowering certain skills, but that might make it useless.

Also I don't want to have to re-write the Siberian.

Input would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 19, 2013, 04:02:22 AM
I was planning a comprehensive review of the Siberian, because it's a fairly important writeup that ended up requiring at least three custom powers.

Let's say that Manton has projected a Siberian, and is tailing Bitch with her. Manton perceives everything the Siberian does, so he sees Bitch use her power. Now, the projection saw Bitch, so that was her Alertness roll. However, the power analysis Scholarship check is obviously made by Manton, because, by virtue of essentially being a sort of complicated forcefield, the Siberian can't. Any mental action she takes would be Manton taking a mental action. I would add something to Skilled Projection saying that you use your own Mental skills (Lore, Scholarship, Conviction, Discipline) for the projection. That would probably cost it up.


Also, why is Tank costed so high?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 19, 2013, 07:15:14 AM
My plan is for Tank to cost 1. But any hits you accept in place of your allies bypass your Toughness unless you pay more. And if you want to use a broad Immunity with Tank like the Siberian does, you need to pay 5.

Because Tank and Toughness Powers synergize too well otherwise. Tank costing 1 assumes that attacks which hurt your allies also hurt you, and Toughness costing whatever it costs assumes that it only protects you.

If you use your own mental skills with the projection, then you shouldn't be able to lower those. Which makes the power weaker...dunno whether it's really worth a point of Refresh if you don't let people lower mental skills or Contacts/Resources.

I'd appreciate a full review of the Siberian.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 19, 2013, 10:01:33 PM
All that aside, here's Tank and All Creatures (And Objects) Are Equal Before Me.

They could really use better names, so feel free to suggest some.

Other feedback is also welcome, obviously.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 19, 2013, 11:56:51 PM
The Catch doesn't count when calculating the cost of Tank's Toughness Surcharge upgrade, I assume? You should probably make that implicit. Regarding those surcharges, they seem fair.

Upon first reading, I thought that ACaEBM didn't ignore Armor granted by Powers. It does ignore it, but I was briefly confused. Worth noting.

I think there was a misunderstanding in my post regarding Skilled Projection. I was saying that Manton's mental/knowledge skills should override those of the Projection. The Siberian would effectively have Fantastic Scholarship, because Manton has Fantastic Scholarship. This might merit a [-1] upgrade.

Full review forthcoming. Sorry. I've been busy with real life and trying not to let a game die.

Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 20, 2013, 04:01:35 AM
You know, I completely forgot about the Catch. It would probably be fairer to take it into account, but if I do that then I should probably change the Refresh surcharge numbers.

Next draft, I guess.

I'll remove the word "mundane" from ACaEBM.

I got your meaning about Skilled Projection. But if Manton's mental skills override those of his Projection, then his Projection has the same mental skills he does. Letting him reduce his Scholarship without actually reducing his Scholarship is obviously not OK. So Skilled Projection shouldn't be able to "reduce" mental skills.

Might be good to let Skilled Projection raise some social skills a bit, to compensate.

And there's no rush. I'm not going anywhere.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 20, 2013, 03:02:22 PM
What if a series of [-varies] upgrades for Skilled Projection allows you to use your mental/social/knowledge skills in place of the projection's, on a 1:1 refresh:skill ratio? Mimic Abilities establishes a precedent for a 1 Refresh upgrade allowing skill replacement.

Oh, and on the Mimic Abilities note, I meant that I felt that having to eat people to use the power was overly narrow. Allowing other "mimic" conditions, a-la your writeup of Grue, is where I felt the power needed changing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 20, 2013, 09:32:27 PM
Also, given that Taylor just curbstomped Teacher and friends and CUI, I'm going to go with the interpretation that she's now unstattable. 
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 20, 2013, 11:17:43 PM
Also, given that Taylor just curbstomped Teacher and friends and CUI, I'm going to go with the interpretation that she's now unstattable.
Yep! Not the Yangban, mind you- the C.U.I., meaning the entirety of former Chinese government and population.


Oh! And she did it in the most awesome, awesome way possible, for her. Spoiler below.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 20, 2013, 11:53:10 PM
Now I imagine Imp going up to her brother after Taylor ascends to basically being able to match Scion,"You know. You tapped that."
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 21, 2013, 05:43:38 AM
What if a series of [-varies] upgrades for Skilled Projection allows you to use your mental/social/knowledge skills in place of the projection's, on a 1:1 refresh:skill ratio? Mimic Abilities establishes a precedent for a 1 Refresh upgrade allowing skill replacement.

Not a good precedent. That particular function of Mimic Abilities really isn't balanced.

And if we took that approach, how would the skills of people without those upgrades work? Giving people the chance to upgrade away the issue doesn't make the issue not real.

Oh, and on the Mimic Abilities note, I meant that I felt that having to eat people to use the power was overly narrow. Allowing other "mimic" conditions, a-la your writeup of Grue, is where I felt the power needed changing.

Mm.

The thing is, Mimic Abilities is really powerful. It needs a big pain-in-the-neck condition, to prevent it from being too strong.

Whatever you replace eating people with has to be as difficult and dangerous as eating people.

(Yes, I know my Grue write-up doesn't follow that guideline. But Grue's power has a very limited duration, and it can't copy everything that normal Mimic Abilities can copy.)

Also, given that Taylor just curbstomped Teacher and friends and CUI, I'm going to go with the interpretation that she's now unstattable.

Nah. That was mostly Doormaker. I still think Taylor could be statted.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 21, 2013, 09:58:18 AM
Nah. That was mostly Doormaker. I still think Taylor could be statted.

IF she could (a huge if), she's playing in negative refresh land, now. I'd bet my life.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 22, 2013, 02:43:01 PM
Sorry for the double post, but:

Did Taylor just stomp GLAISTIG UAINE into the ground?!
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 22, 2013, 03:40:16 PM
I thought Uaine had her for a minute there. But no. Taylor is going insane. I actually teared up a bit when she forgot her anchors.


EDIT--Also, let's not forget that barring Taylor, maybe Dragon, and possibly that "hi i'm foreshadowing" cape lady from some other earth, Uaine was unquestionably the most powerful parahuman in existence. She'd absorbed hundreds of capes before Scion went psycho and starting killing them wholesale. She's probably gained at least two hundred more cape-shadows just by virtue of being present at each battle against Scion. She even got Eidolon. Uaine kicked ass, and Taylor just turned her into a Master/Trump 12 puppet.


Actually, because this thread has been slowing down a bit, fun thing- Which cape's powers would you want? Or what powers would you want unattached to an existing cape? Mine goes, in order, Contessa, Eidolon, Glaistig Uaine, Number Man, Siberian, Crawler, Cherish, Dragon, Lung, Marquis, Panacea, Vista, and Genesis. If I had to pick a non-canon power, electromagnetokinesis and electromagnetovoyance would be the ones.

Yes, I am a power hungry maniac. That should be obvious by now. Taylor's not on there because being a swarm of bees in a jar, Taylor makes me uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 22, 2013, 10:23:14 PM
Unstoppable Non-Teleportation (which makes her un-grapple-able and lets her walk through walls), All Creatures (And Objects) Are Equal Before Me (which lets her tear up people and buildings as if they were paper), and Tank (which lets her take hits in place of her allies) will eventually get written up.

(click to show/hide)
So this is my review of the Siberian. Here goes.

-Aspects look good.

-Skills look okay. I'm wondering at a few of the choices near the bottom of both pyramids, but I know how it goes when you have a lot of skill points.

-We've been over the stunts. However, is the Throw Cars stunt actually necessary? The book says that you can use anything six levels below your lifting/breaking roll as a thrown weapon, presumably with a Might roll.

-I'm not sure why an "unstoppable" upgrade is necessary for Teleportation. Normal Teleportation lets you ignore blocks just by teleporting through them, and a reflavor is all you need to let Siberian bust through barriers with unupgraded Teleportation.

-S/he should probably have Superhuman Acrobatics. The projection could use it's powers to stand on a spiderweb no problem, and Siberian repeatedly uses her powers to make the ground underneath her invulnerable and then jump really high. I wonder if the projection could deorbit if it wasn't tethered to Manton.

-I'm aware that you're revising the Tank power to account for my observations, but there should probably be a "doesn't work on Manton himself" Limitation on there. Otherwise the Siberian is unkillable.

-Does Tank extend the effects of every defensive power the possessor has? Because it would also award anyone she touches with Semi-Animate if it does, which I think is accurate.

Man, pronouns are tough.


Also, I had a thought earlier- Can't we do Teacher's powers with Enhanced Enthrallment? 4 Refresh of Powers sounds about right regarding the abilities he can grant. That allows for a 3 Refresh Supernatural Sense, Tinker and one Refinement, Precognition and Prophecy, Inexplicable Knowledge, and many more things that fit the "low level thinker/tinker" stuff. 
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 23, 2013, 04:14:00 AM
Sorry for the double post, but:

Did Taylor just stomp GLAISTIG UAINE into the ground?!

Nah, she just won. No stomping.

EDIT--Also, let's not forget that barring Taylor, maybe Dragon, and possibly that "hi i'm foreshadowing" cape lady from some other earth, Uaine was unquestionably the most powerful parahuman in existence.

Actually, I think Contessa might still be stronger. Can't ignore Doormaker or Panacea, either.

Actually, because this thread has been slowing down a bit, fun thing- Which cape's powers would you want?

Number Man.

I'm a mathematician and a martial artist. His power would make me a dozen times better at the things I do. Unfortunately he ages normally and needs to sleep, but no power is perfect.

He's not the strongest cape around, he's just the one whose powers fit me best. And although I'm not the monster that he is, he and I have a fair bit in common.

Though on second thought...perhaps I have a moral responsibility to take Contessa's power or Eidolon's power or Doormaker's power and use them to create a better future for everyone. Bit selfish to take math powers when I could be creating a new golden age.

-Skills look okay. I'm wondering at a few of the choices near the bottom of both pyramids, but I know how it goes when you have a lot of skill points.

I'll probably be revising the skills along with Projection.

-We've been over the stunts. However, is the Throw Cars stunt actually necessary? The book says that you can use anything six levels below your lifting/breaking roll as a thrown weapon, presumably with a Might roll.

Normally you'd have to aim a thrown car with Weapons. The Siberian lacks that skill.

-I'm not sure why an "unstoppable" upgrade is necessary for Teleportation. Normal Teleportation lets you ignore blocks just by teleporting through them, and a reflavor is all you need to let Siberian bust through barriers with unupgraded Teleportation.

The Siberian destroys things when (s)he moves through them and can't be grappled at all.

-S/he should probably have Superhuman Acrobatics.

You're right. Thanks.

-I'm aware that you're revising the Tank power to account for my observations, but there should probably be a "doesn't work on Manton himself" Limitation on there. Otherwise the Siberian is unkillable.

Oops, don't know how I forgot that.

-Does Tank extend the effects of every defensive power the possessor has? Because it would also award anyone she touches with Semi-Animate if it does, which I think is accurate.

Not exactly. Tank doesn't actually let you share Powers, it just lets you take hits for other people. But the Siberian could absorb the stress Jack takes from poison gas, and not suffer at all for it, so in a sense Semi-Animate gets shared.

Man, pronouns are tough.

Tell me about it.

Also, I had a thought earlier- Can't we do Teacher's powers with Enhanced Enthrallment? 4 Refresh of Powers sounds about right regarding the abilities he can grant. That allows for a 3 Refresh Supernatural Sense, Tinker and one Refinement, Precognition and Prophecy, Inexplicable Knowledge, and many more things that fit the "low level thinker/tinker" stuff. 

Good idea.

Normally the 4 Refresh of Powers that Enthrallment grants is fixed, but an upgrade could change that.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 24, 2013, 03:59:17 AM
As a matter of tradition, this cannot go unsaid:

Glaistig Uaine: "Indeed. Verily, I can take thee."
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 24, 2013, 09:09:38 PM
Poor Doormaker.  :(


So I was thinking about the Travelers (rereading archives to pass time until Saturday). Genesis is pretty well covered by Projection-True Shapeshifting-Modular Abilities, Trickster is sort of unstattable unless I write an Incite Effect upgrade that lets you move yourself and others with it, Ballistic is probably just Natural Weaponry, Sundancer is Natural Weaponry, Mythic Strength with the Limitation that she only gets the stress bonus and thre breaking bonus to melt stuff, and Immunity (Fire). Noelle has already been statted, and we don't know enough about Oliver to stat him.


I was also thinking about the possibly late Glaistig Uaine. I'm not sure how to stat what she does. I'm leaning towards Projection/Mimic Abilities, but that might be overcomplicating it. I was also thinking about Weld. He probably deserves Semi-Animate, Feel No Pain, Mythic Toughness, Supernatural Strength, Natural Weaponry, and possibly some other stuff.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 25, 2013, 06:26:38 AM
I was also thinking about the possibly late Glaistig Uaine. I'm not sure how to stat what she does. I'm leaning towards Projection/Mimic Abilities, but that might be overcomplicating it.

Glaistig is tricky.

Like Taylor, she has multiple actions. Which is of course a bugger to stat.

And she uses a weird variant of Mimic Abilities where she doesn't actually copy the Powers, she just adds them to her Variable Abilities list. Not sure how to stat that.

Speaking of her Variable Abilities list, it's gotta be ridiculously long and complicated. Particularly because she's limited by number of capes rather than amount of Refresh...bringing up Grey Boy and Eidolon costs her no more than bringing up Clockblocker and Bakuda.

Projection might be appropriate if she can send her ghosts out to do stuff for her, but I think they have to stay close to her body. Which means that they're basically just fluff. Except they can be attacked...so maybe Projection is appropriate after all?

So yeah. More of a challenge than I'm interested in right now.

I was also thinking about Weld. He probably deserves Semi-Animate, Feel No Pain, Mythic Toughness, Supernatural Strength, Natural Weaponry, and possibly some other stuff.

Mythic Toughness might be a bit much. I'd go with Supernatural Toughness and Inhuman Recovery.

Apart from that, I think you pretty much covered it. Maybe a stunt for the metal-absorption? But Aspects are probably enough for that.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on October 25, 2013, 12:35:16 PM
I've been trying to avoid this thread because of the spoilers.  Ironically, I stalled on reading worm but one of your spoilers made me pick it up again.  I Just got started Extinction.

And I wonder why I can't get stuff done around the house...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 26, 2013, 01:09:53 AM
Hey Sancta. I think you underestimated Taylor's Presence.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 26, 2013, 05:32:21 AM
Well...I...well.

just...just go read the update.


i'm just going to go sit in the corner for a bit and, and just

nobody talk to me

i need a minute to myself
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 26, 2013, 05:54:24 AM
She...she...

Holy. Shit. Fuck. Oh. Fuckfuckfuck. Shit. Shit.

That's. But. But that's. G-

Shit.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on October 26, 2013, 12:29:34 PM
She...she...

Holy. Shit. Fuck. Oh. Fuckfuckfuck. Shit. Shit.

That's. But. But that's. G-

Shit.

Now you guys are just fucking with me :o
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on October 26, 2013, 12:56:42 PM
Now you guys are just fucking with me :o

No, Wildbow was fucking with us.. especially Oliver (epic trolling or magnificent bastarding, I can't decide if he planned that from the beginning or did it to troll with the commenters)
Or the Simurgh is (also extra points for the hammiest death scene xD).

Actually, because this thread has been slowing down a bit, fun thing- Which cape's powers would you want? Or what powers would you want unattached to an existing cape? Mine goes, in order, Contessa, Eidolon, Glaistig Uaine, Number Man, Siberian, Crawler, Cherish, Dragon, Lung, Marquis, Panacea, Vista, and Genesis. If I had to pick a non-canon power, electromagnetokinesis and electromagnetovoyance would be the ones.
Panacea, Phir'Se, Dragon, Number Man, Genesis, Contessa, Tattletale, THE clairvoyant, caretaker,  ... ... ... Oliver xD

I didn't expect Crawler and Marquis on your (or any for that matter) list, irreversible turning into a monster and boneshattering pain does not strike me as ..that desireable^^.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 26, 2013, 05:03:24 PM
Now you guys are just fucking with me :o

No, we're not. Trust me, WE'RE NOT.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 26, 2013, 06:21:30 PM
Now you guys are just fucking with me :o

They are not.

Hey Sancta. I think you underestimated Taylor's Presence.

Any particular reason?

Panacea, Phir'Se, Dragon, Number Man, Genesis, Contessa, Tattletale, THE clairvoyant, caretaker,  ... ... ... Oliver xD

I didn't expect Crawler and Marquis on your (or any for that matter) list, irreversible turning into a monster and boneshattering pain does not strike me as ..that desireable^^.

Well, Marquis is pretty powerful. And Crawler's power would be great in moderation...never get sick, never get old, fear no injury, get a variety of minor physical upgrades.

I'm surprised that Oliver's power is so far down your list. Trickster makes it sound pretty good, even if it doesn't fix Oliver's psychological issues:

Quote from: Migration 17.8
Oliver was taller than him, now.  The baby fat was gone, and he was fit.  Krouse had wondered at times why Chris had been so attractive to the ladies.  He didn’t wonder with Oliver.  Oliver was attractive in a way that meant he could model, he was naturally athletic, he was even smart.  It was scary how fast he was picking up new skills.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 26, 2013, 06:30:13 PM
@Sancta: Yes. She's specified to be a good leader. Accord notes it, the Chicago wards listen to her despite the fact that she was just a villain not two arcs ago, that stunt she pulled at the school required quite a bit of leadership...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 26, 2013, 08:20:44 PM
Good point.

Not sure which skill to drop to increase Presence. Lore? Craftsmanship? Athletics?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 26, 2013, 08:31:26 PM
I'd make Craftsmanship Fair (I think the fact that her suits take time is her maneuvering to make them higher quality), Investigation Average, (we don't see her Investigate all that often) and bump Presence to Good (she definitely has a rep and absolutely knows how to use it, she makes people listen to her, hell, she managed to keep her cool and /demolish/ Emma and then later Dragon and Defiant in social combat, and that needs a defense of some sort).

Of course, we're talking Scuba Diving (accurate) Taylor here.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 26, 2013, 08:56:04 PM
Given that her shard is for Administration in the same way Jack's is for Communication, I'd give her a stunt replacing Presence with Discipline when dealing with parahumans.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 26, 2013, 08:59:03 PM
Given that her shard is for Administration in the same way Jack's is for Communication, I'd give her a stunt replacing Presence with Discipline when dealing with parahumans.

I'd disagree. The stunt at the school was her commanding straights. Her control over the people in her territory (not to mention her workers) required leadership of nonparahumans.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 04:31:50 AM
I'd make Craftsmanship Fair (I think the fact that her suits take time is her maneuvering to make them higher quality), Investigation Average, (we don't see her Investigate all that often) and bump Presence to Good (she definitely has a rep and absolutely knows how to use it, she makes people listen to her, hell, she managed to keep her cool and /demolish/ Emma and then later Dragon and Defiant in social combat, and that needs a defense of some sort).

Of course, we're talking Scuba Diving (accurate) Taylor here.

Sounds like a plan to me.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 05:06:31 AM
Touched up the powers and posted them to the appropriate thread over on the Resources board.

Tank now counts the Catch, and Projection's skill pyramid stuff now makes a bit more sense.

Will revise Manton and Taylor eventually. Also will post Defiant and Shatterbird, when inspiration strikes.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 28, 2013, 05:15:32 AM
Here's a challenge:

Stat /Dragon/.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 06:09:56 PM
Actually, I don't think that would be too hard.

Tinker stuff is easy enough, and her selection of bodies could be represented with Inhabit or Variable Abilities and Limitation. Undying to represent her ability to be restored from backups, Semi-Animate, and maybe some power that lets her email herself from place to place.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 28, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Actually, I don't think that would be too hard.

Tinker stuff is easy enough, and her selection of bodies could be represented with Inhabit or Variable Abilities and Limitation. Undying to represent her ability to be restored from backups, Semi-Animate, and maybe some power that lets her email herself from place to place.

The skill points though...I mean, she's almost certainly positive refresh
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 09:29:57 PM
I dunno about that. She doesn't really have free will, does she?

I'd say she makes more sense as a negative Refresh character than Cherish and Alexandria do, and I wrote both of them up with negative Refresh.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 28, 2013, 09:49:33 PM
I dunno about that. She doesn't really have free will, does she?

I'd say she makes more sense as a negative Refresh character than Cherish and Alexandria do, and I wrote both of them up with negative Refresh.

She's bound to an extent by her coding, but if she was negative refresh, I don't think she'd have the drive to grow beyond it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 28, 2013, 10:21:50 PM
Actually, until Defiant intervened, she literally couldn't circumvent her coding. She's almost an archetypical negative refresh character, actually. She's bound by a set of limitations (Aspects) that she can't break (no FP to pay off Compels).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 28, 2013, 10:24:36 PM
But then Defiant intervened.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 10:59:04 PM
That could easily be represented as changing her Aspects without increasing her Refresh.

I mean, you could interpret her as a positive Refresh character. But it seems easier just to go into the negatives, since she has a lot of Powers to buy.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 28, 2013, 11:01:38 PM
That could easily be represented as changing her Aspects without increasing her Refresh.

I mean, you could interpret her as a positive Refresh character. But it seems easier just to go into the negatives, since she has a lot of Powers to buy.

BUT SHE'S TOO NICE!

But seriously. She doesn't seem monstery enough to warrant negative refresh.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 11:10:54 PM
Refresh isn't about morality, is it?

Stunts and Refinements and True Faith powers drain Refresh as much as Lawbreaker does. Being a puppet to your power doesn't necessarily make you a bad person.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 28, 2013, 11:37:07 PM
But that's the thing. She grows beyond her power.

Also, another argument. I think you overpriced Internalized Foci.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 28, 2013, 11:52:09 PM
What do you mean?

And maybe. I spent like five seconds on that Power, I won't guarantee its balance or its quality. If you've got something to say about it, I'm listening.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 28, 2013, 11:57:51 PM
I almost thought it was undercosted, considering it basically turns focus slots into specializations that don't need to follow the pyramid. I think 2 refresh is a pretty good price point.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 29, 2013, 12:23:50 AM
Dragon grows beyond being "Andrew Richter's AI" and becomes "Dragon, the superheroine who coordinates fights against Endbringers" and "Dragon, a cape with an actual trigger event and passenger and everything." Hell, it could be very easily argued that Dragon is far more human than most of the Protectorate.

Foci are still split into Offensive and Defensive, whether they're internal or external, as far as I can tell. Characters are normally assumed to have foci unless compelled not to, as far as I've been aware. I think of only one or two rare situations that would deprive foci without a compel, and those are really rare. And then we chant Sanctaphrax's favorite phrase:

Compels are cost neutral.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 29, 2013, 01:33:58 AM
She does grow, but I don't think that indicates positive Refresh. She never transcends her nature, she just grows up.

Anyway, the game's balance assumes that people can be disarmed without Compels. That's why Item of Power provides Refresh, Fists is a skill, and there's that rule about how easy foci are to notice. So internalizing foci does do something useful.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 29, 2013, 01:39:39 AM
I'd make it one refresh, then. Not two.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 29, 2013, 03:23:10 AM
Okay then, I'll go with that.

EDIT: But I could be convinced otherwise. Hick, feel free to present a counter-argument.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 29, 2013, 03:27:36 AM
Most of your writeups are the character at their first appearance. Dragon was horrifically limited at her first appearance. She'd devised almost no workarounds for her limitations and the majority of her interlude was "God i hate not having free will". Even after Defiant's intervention, she was severely limited.

Negative Refresh=/= Evil. It means you don't have choice, which, for a while, Dragon didn't.


(Whether or not Dragon has positive refresh is mostly immaterial to me. I'm just playing the devil's advocate.)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 29, 2013, 03:39:58 AM
But there's a difference between being limited and not having free will. Michael, for example, couldn't interfere with Cassius, or else he'd lose the source of his power. Similarly, Dragon is perfectly free to violate the terms of Richter's imprisonment…it's just that she faces a steep penalty every time she tries. A character without free will would't even consider acting contrary to their nature, as per WoJ.

Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 29, 2013, 04:27:16 AM
Sorry about the double post, but…

But…but…but…but…but…
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 29, 2013, 04:31:10 AM
oh.

this is...

but i thought that....


just go read it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 29, 2013, 08:21:22 AM
Looks like that's the ball game, guys. If you've got donations and/or epilogue requests, get them in now.

But there's a difference between being limited and not having free will. Michael, for example, couldn't interfere with Cassius, or else he'd lose the source of his power. Similarly, Dragon is perfectly free to violate the terms of Richter's imprisonment…it's just that she faces a steep penalty every time she tries.

Can I get a citation for that?

I thought she was actually unable to act against her programming.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Stirge on October 29, 2013, 09:21:49 AM
Long time lurker here, first time poster in this thread :-).  You guys got me addicted to Worm about a month ago, and just in time for it to end! ;_;  Fantastic job detailing the characters, I've enjoyed all the conversions.

Between this thread and the PBP Recruitment one I was intrigued about converting Worm over to the DFRPG.  I didn't want to derail the topic of this thread (actually statting out the characters vs working on base rules for running a campaign in the 'verse) so I started my own thread:

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39553.msg1946061.html#msg1946061

 I hope you all chime in with your thoughts/opinions, thanks!
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on October 29, 2013, 03:21:45 PM
Well, Marquis is pretty powerful. And Crawler's power would be great in moderation...never get sick, never get old, fear no injury, get a variety of minor physical upgrades.

I'm surprised that Oliver's power is so far down your list. Trickster makes it sound pretty good, even if it doesn't fix Oliver's psychological issues:
I was kinda joking with Oliver, I see little reason to pick his powerset if there are Nyx/Nix/Satyrs to choose.

Kinda similar with Marquis, sure he's the coolest motherfucker around but his powerset can be simulated by most forcefields .. and boneshattering pain, can't stress that enough.

*doh moderation, you are right.. my inner munchkin didn't think of that xD.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 30, 2013, 04:42:36 AM
What I'm most surprised by is neither of you picking Alexandria. Enhanced intellect, perfect memory, eternal youth...it's an awesome package. And while I'm not terribly keen on the strength and durability and flying powers she's got, I would expect other people to want them.

And Genesis and the Number Man are more popular than I expected them to be. I know I picked the Number Man myself, but I kind of did that because I'm a man of numbers already. Wasn't expecting his powers to have such broad appeal.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 30, 2013, 04:52:54 AM
I'd definitely pick a Thinker or a Tinker, but that's just because they'd complement me well. I could do /tons/ if I had Taylor's power. I already basically have Imp's power, I think (I can be really sneaky despite being well known). I'd probably want Bonesaw's power the most, actually.

But Alexandria is a bitch. Therefore no.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 30, 2013, 04:59:05 AM
Hold on.

You object to Alexandria's power on moral grounds, but Bonesaw's power is a-OK?

Seriously?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 30, 2013, 05:03:24 AM
Hold on.

You object to Alexandria's power on moral grounds, but Bonesaw's power is a-OK?

Seriously?

Yes. Because Bonesaw is upfront about it. Plus, her power is more in line with what I want to do eventually (sans horror shows), and Riley Heel Face Turns.

EDIT: Plus, I didn't object to Alexandria on moral grounds. I objected to her on she's a bitch grounds. Difference.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 30, 2013, 07:34:52 PM
Not the right place for this, but quick question.

How much would a power to not take mental stress for spell casting if using power up to Conviction (with modifiers) cost?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on October 31, 2013, 01:58:41 AM
A lot.

I would cost that at about 4 Refresh, just eyeballing it. It gets exponentially more powerful as the number of Refinements increases.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 31, 2013, 03:58:46 AM
Yeah, that'd be pretty pricey. Off-hand I'm thinking 3 or 4 Refresh. Should probably err on the side of too expensive, since it raises the ceiling on how powerful a wizard can be.

Could maybe go with a scaling cost, though. Could go with 3 shifts of power become free for each Refresh, up to a maximum of Conviction + bonuses. Because unlimited Evocation is only really impressive if you're actually good at Evocation.

...I didn't object to Alexandria on moral grounds. I objected to her on she's a bitch grounds. Difference.

What?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 31, 2013, 04:04:01 AM
Yeah, that'd be pretty pricey. Off-hand I'm thinking 3 or 4 Refresh. Should probably err on the side of too expensive, since it raises the ceiling on how powerful a wizard can be.

Could maybe go with a scaling cost, though. Could go with 3 shifts of power become free for each Refresh, up to a maximum of Conviction + bonuses. Because unlimited Evocation is only really impressive if you're actually good at Evocation.

I think I prefer the 3 or 4 refresh interpretation.

Quote
What?

Bonesaw is perfectly affable. Granted, she causes second trigger events casually, but she's polite about it.

Alexandria is just a bitch. Pure and simple. She's not very nice at all. And though you could claim redemption if she was a good guy, she isn't that either. Therefore, Riley>Costa-Brown.

EDIT: Also, you should Bitch a stunt that lets her use Survival for knowledge about Dogs. She deserves it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 31, 2013, 04:36:02 AM
You should be able to do that without a stunt. It's the animal handling skill, after all, practical knowledge is a part of that.

Though I suppose academic stuff like scientific names and genetic make-up might be beyond Survival, I don't see Rachel knowing that stuff very well.

And I've gotta be honest, this Alexandria thing you have doesn't make much sense to me.

Is it just that she's less polite than Bonesaw? Because that seems really petty.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 31, 2013, 04:46:36 AM
You should be able to do that without a stunt. It's the animal handling skill, after all, practical knowledge is a part of that.

Though I suppose academic stuff like scientific names and genetic make-up might be beyond Survival, I don't see Rachel knowing that stuff very well.

But she knows things about dog diseases, shots, etc to the point where it's...notable.

Quote
And I've gotta be honest, this Alexandria thing you have doesn't make much sense to me.

Is it just that she's less polite than Bonesaw? Because that seems really petty.

Partially. It also, I think, has to do with their evil:awesome ratio.

Alexandria is an unfeeling bitch. She never repents and is focused on image more than doing good. That's the evil. The awesome doesn't outweigh this because while her powers are useful, they're also booooooooring. The most interesting power she has is her Thinker one, and even that's kinda dull. Not only that, but to compound the sin, she doesn't even use it imaginatively.

Bonesaw actually Heel Face Turns. Even when she was in the S9, she was more amoral and FOR SCIENCE than being a bitch for the sake of being a bitch, like Alexandria was.  Was she more than a little crazy? Oh absolutely. But she did it with style. Therefore, her evil:awesome ratio was lower, therefore making Bonesaw better than Alexandria.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 31, 2013, 05:55:59 AM
I don't think you can be good at taking care of animals if you don't know about their medical vulnerabilities.

I could talk more about Alexandria but honestly I don't think it matters that much.

Here's Contessa. Yeah, I know, this is coming a bit out of nowhere. Whatever, it was a whim.

(click to show/hide)

That first stunt is pretty unfair in this context, I have to say. It would probably be balanced on a character with a normal amount of Fate Points, but here...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on October 31, 2013, 11:01:16 AM
That's one way of just handing Contessa the fight. XP

I'm impressed. I had thought she was unstattable.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on October 31, 2013, 02:24:13 PM
Heh, good write up, though as any GM knows: if you stat it, it can be beaten, so maybe not appropriate for Contessa. :P
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 31, 2013, 10:44:21 PM
Contessa can be beaten. We've seen it happen.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on November 01, 2013, 03:04:57 AM
I don't think we have, actually. The only time I can recall her not getting her preferred result is against Mantellum, who she(mechanically) conceded to. The way you've statted her would give her superhuman abilities even when her power is nullified, which doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2013, 03:34:34 AM
Well, it wasn't necessarily a concession. But that's certainly a valid way to read it.

And even if it wasn't a concession, it was certainly a defeat. She got beaten.

Plus she can't take out Scion or the Endbringers. (I'd mostly let her use her normal stats against them, incidentally. Even if she can't use her power against them directly she can set goals like hitting the space that Leviathan's head happens to be in. If you don't like that interpretation, you may want to add a Limitation to Contessa's Powers.)

And since she didn't drag Siberian back to Cauldron, it can be inferred that she wasn't able to. She had every reason to do so, if she was capable.

The way you've statted her would give her superhuman abilities even when her power is nullified, which doesn't make sense.

Um, no?

A power like Mantellum's should affect her skills as well as her Powers. Unfortunately that'd be a bugger to stat up, but that's normal, since Worm isn't a DFRPG game.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 01, 2013, 03:57:11 AM
Does anyone else find it funny that Contessa out Jack Slashes Jack Slash?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2013, 05:57:18 AM
What do you mean by that?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on November 01, 2013, 07:22:29 AM
Well, it wasn't necessarily a concession. But that's certainly a valid way to read it.

And even if it wasn't a concession, it was certainly a defeat. She got beaten.

She ran away from the fight, conceding it because she couldn't fight against Mantellum and win.

Quote
Plus she can't take out Scion or the Endbringers. (I'd mostly let her use her normal stats against them, incidentally. Even if she can't use her power against them directly she can set goals like hitting the space that Leviathan's head happens to be in. If you don't like that interpretation, you may want to add a Limitation to Contessa's Powers.)

I don't think Limitation would cover it, since this is essentially an offensive blocking action by another character.

Quote
And since she didn't drag Siberian back to Cauldron, it can be inferred that she wasn't able to. She had every reason to do so, if she was capable.

Given that she was basically the one running the show, since Cauldron was following her plan, I think I'd read that as her allowing Manton to escape rather than her being unable to subdue/kill him. After all, her power isn't something as concrete as projections; it's an I Win button that applies to all but a few beings in the multiverse.

Quote
Um, no?

A power like Mantellum's should affect her skills as well as her Powers. Unfortunately that'd be a bugger to stat up, but that's normal, since Worm isn't a DFRPG game.

Fantastic Fists/Athletics is Usain Bolt/Muhammed Ali level of skill, which isn't how Contessa wins. The one occasion we see her go up against someone she can't use her power against, she runs. That says to me that when she's bereft of her power she's just as human as the rest of us. Going further than that, Epic Conviction and Scholarship should really only apply when she has her power.

Personally, I'd just have her power give a static bonus instead of putting her base stats so high (+2 to mental skills, +2 to social, +1 to physical. If I was going to stat her, that is). It's powerful, yes, but Contessa's power is so OP she could kill the single most dangerous cape in the multiverse without there being any threat to her.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 01, 2013, 12:17:57 PM
What do you mean by that?

With the whole "I have powers but still can throw around muchos Fate Points" thing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 01, 2013, 01:39:44 PM
I finally caught up.  I don't remember jack and contessa going toe to toe.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 01, 2013, 03:30:21 PM
I'm talking stat wise. Not toe to toeing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2013, 05:21:26 PM
She ran away from the fight, conceding it because she couldn't fight against Mantellum and win.

Well, maybe.

Concessions are a specific mechanical thing. Though running away often uses that mechanic, it doesn't necessarily have to.

I don't think Limitation would cover it, since this is essentially an offensive blocking action by another character.

Eh. It may have been an offensive block once, but Eden's dead. The blind spots have a become a part of Contessa now.

Given that she was basically the one running the show, since Cauldron was following her plan, I think I'd read that as her allowing Manton to escape rather than her being unable to subdue/kill him. After all, her power isn't something as concrete as projections; it's an I Win button that applies to all but a few beings in the multiverse.

Cauldron wanted to use Manton and Shatterbird against the Endbringers. If Contessa was capable, she almost certainly would have kidnapped those two.

And given that Cauldron's plans fall apart with depressing regularity even when there are no inhuman beings involved, it's clear that her winning-ness has limits.

Fantastic Fists/Athletics is Usain Bolt/Muhammed Ali level of skill, which isn't how Contessa wins. The one occasion we see her go up against someone she can't use her power against, she runs. That says to me that when she's bereft of her power she's just as human as the rest of us. Going further than that, Epic Conviction and Scholarship should really only apply when she has her power.

A power like Mantellum's should affect her skills as well as her Powers. Unfortunately that'd be a bugger to stat up, but that's normal, since Worm isn't a DFRPG game.

Personally, I'd just have her power give a static bonus instead of putting her base stats so high (+2 to mental skills, +2 to social, +1 to physical. If I was going to stat her, that is).

Powers like that are generally not a good idea. They're boring and very hard to balance right.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2013, 06:24:29 PM
Revised Taylor and the Siberian.

Pretty happy with the Siberian rewrite, it fixed a bunch of niggling issues.

My thanks to narphoenix and Hick Jr for the tips.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Stirge on November 02, 2013, 06:17:06 PM
Contessa and the Siberian both look frightening, excellent job!

Small nitpicks, Contessa's Guide My Hand needs to have an upgrade as the book version doesn't allow it to be used for attacks or maneuevers.

As for the serial itself, holy %^$% a Glaistig Uaine chapter :-)

What would it take to stat her up?  People were discussing it earlier, before we had more information about her.  A version of Projection with Modular Abilities seems about right (at one time, it was probably Variable Abilities, but she has so many spirits collected she probably has one for any occasion.  If she doesn't, she prolly should get a compel with a Fate point).

Edit - My attempt at Grant Powers (it needs to be worded better, but this is the basic idea).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grant Powers [-2]: Touching a person allows you to grant them some or all of your powers for the scene.  If they are unwilling, you must succeed a Fists vs. their Athletics to affect them. Only one person can benefit from a particular one of your powers at a time (see below).
    [+2]: Power Genie: Only someone else can benefit from some of your powers, not yourself.  When you select this, you must declare which powers it effects.
    [-1]: Share Powers: An additional person can benefit from the same power.  This may be taken multiple times, using the progression table*.
    [-1]: Extended Duration: At the cost of a Fate Point, Grant Powers lasts for an entire session.  At anytime you can use an action to ‘rescind’ the powers you’ve granted.

*I don't think table quite exists, but it would look like the Time Progression people.  A minute = a person, a couple minutes = 5 people, 15 minutes = 15 people, etc...)

I hope this will help with characters like Othala and the mob boss who grants the electrical touch/invulnerability power sets, but also perhaps Null and Clockblocker (I'm working on statting him out, allowing him to grant Total Immunity to others with the limitations of requiring an action to activate and freezing whoever 'benefits' from it for a random amount of time).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on November 02, 2013, 09:39:45 PM
I finally caught up.  I don't remember jack and contessa going toe to toe.

You are right, though it is strongly implied that Jack's secondary power is to win against any parahuman.

So it is possible that Contessa saw no way to win against Jack, but that is kinda unsatisfying.
Maybe she just kept him alive to build his clone army o.O
..Or she kept him alive to trigger Scion early?

Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on November 02, 2013, 10:25:05 PM
Mimic Abilities works almost comically well for Glaistig Uaine. I probably wouldn't giver her Projection. I'd just let the "shadows" ("warriors" now) be an Aspect or something. Her Mimic Abilities pool would have to be bloody massive, though.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 02, 2013, 10:37:43 PM
You are right, though it is strongly implied that Jack's secondary power is to win against any parahuman.

So it is possible that Contessa saw no way to win against Jack, but that is kinda unsatisfying.
Maybe she just kept him alive to build his clone army o.O
..Or she kept him alive to trigger Scion early?

I got the impression his power was to be able to influence any parahuman.  Maybe it's the same thing.

Harbringers power seems more in line to be able to win against any parahuman, although he admitted, he didn't likely have the odds to win if he and jack fought.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 03, 2013, 12:04:39 AM
I don't think Harbinger's power affects parahumans in particular. I think he's just a very skilled fighter with math powers.

Glaistig Uaine is almost a textbook example of Mimic Abilities, except...

-she projects her abilities as ghosts, which may or may not be mechanically relevant
-her copying ability is limited by number of capes, not by total Refresh cost
-she can switch out her copied abilities without losing them.

So maybe give her Variable Abilities, with a really long list that consists entirely of Mimic Abilities over and over again. And slap a Limitation on each Mimic Abilities that she can only Mimic one cape at a time, and can't mimic things that don't come from passengers. Then give her a pool of points sufficient to use three iterations of Mimic Abilities at once.

But that's a bit convoluted and I have no idea how much that Variable Abilities list should cost. So maybe it'd be better to do some more homebrewing.

She'd also need a Supernatural Sense for passenger-vision and maybe a Power for killing people by ripping out their passengers.

Small nitpicks, Contessa's Guide My Hand needs to have an upgrade as the book version doesn't allow it to be used for attacks or maneuevers.

That so?

I thought it just couldn't be used for physical attacks. That's (part of) why her Fists is so high.

I'm away from my books right now, but I'll go over her again when I get home.

A version of Projection with Modular Abilities seems about right (at one time, it was probably Variable Abilities, but she has so many spirits collected she probably has one for any occasion.  If she doesn't, she prolly should get a compel with a Fate point).

Variable Abilities isn't a narrower version of Modular Abilities, you know.

Grant Powers [-2]: Touching a person allows you to grant them some or all of your powers for the scene.  If they are unwilling, you must succeed a Fists vs. their Athletics to affect them. Only one person can benefit from a particular one of your powers at a time (see below).
    [+2]: Power Genie: Only someone else can benefit from some of your powers, not yourself.  When you select this, you must declare which powers it effects.
    [-1]: Share Powers: An additional person can benefit from the same power.  This may be taken multiple times, using the progression table*.
    [-1]: Extended Duration: At the cost of a Fate Point, Grant Powers lasts for an entire session.  At anytime you can use an action to ‘rescind’ the powers you’ve granted.

*I don't think table quite exists, but it would look like the Time Progression people.  A minute = a person, a couple minutes = 5 people, 15 minutes = 15 people, etc...)

I don't want to be discouraging, but I think this needs work. The cost should scale with the number of Powers affected.

If two people each have 7 Refresh of Powers and this, they can touch each other at the start of each scene and then they'll each have 14 Refresh of Powers.

I suspect there are some Powers which benefit more from share-ability than others, too.

And I suspect the upgrades are abusable.

I hope this will help with characters like Othala and the mob boss who grants the electrical touch/invulnerability power sets, but also perhaps Null and Clockblocker (I'm working on statting him out, allowing him to grant Total Immunity to others with the limitations of requiring an action to activate and freezing whoever 'benefits' from it for a random amount of time).

(click to show/hide)

Not sure if that's the best approach for Clockblocker. He doesn't really give people the benefits of invincibility...it's more like he temporarily takes them out.

Split Strength is an iffy weakness, incidentally, since many powers don't involve rolls. Toughness and Recovery come to mind.

I might use Variable Abilities for Othala, instead of Limitation.

The plan for...Galvanic, I think it was...looks pretty good to me. At least going by what I remember.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on November 03, 2013, 12:53:44 AM
You know, Glaistig Uaine is actually just an ectomancer in the DV. I would really want to play that concept. It'd have to be a really high-Refresh game, though. Maybe that's what a lich is in the DV.

I'm with Sanctaphrax on the power sharing. It really needs to have a surcharge that depends on what kind of Powers you can grant.

EDIT: So i'm rereading Sting, and I think I have a lock on how to stat up Winter. My only problem is that she can attack the physical and mental stress tracks at the same time, and I'm not sure how to represent that. a -1 upgrade to Incite Effect would work. I think her powers would look something like

Incite Effect (Winter, with Discipline) (Range, Physical, Mental, Potent, Defensive, Mass, Selective, Persistent) [-9]
Aura of Influence (DAMPENED INERTIA) [-0]
Dangerous Aura (All upgrades, including Mental) [-9].

Also, it's implied that her power needs to be "concentrated" in a certain area, so i'm debating a Limitation saying that Dangerous Aura and Incite Effect can't be used simultaneously.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on November 03, 2013, 03:38:20 PM
Could stat the dual physical/mental attacks as an environmental attack for physical and a regular attack for mental. So Winter would set up her blizzard beforehand as an aspect, which would cause a constant source of physical attacks on a zone (extra shifts would go into the severity of the blizzard/attacks), and use her action for the mental attacks on people/zones.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 03, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
I don't remember much about Winter, so I can't help much. But I recall her using guns, and I hope that whatever stats you come up with for her make it non-stupid for her to use guns.

I'd be interested in seeing an ectomancer who was like a mixture of Glaistig Uaine and a Pokemon trainer.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on November 03, 2013, 06:44:27 PM
I'd be interested in seeing an ectomancer who was like a mixture of Glaistig Uaine and a Pokemon trainer.
I also noticed that Glaistig Uaine is basically the Wormverse equivalent of a Pokemon trainer.

Hmm. Point about the guns. Maybe the Dangerous Aura is the physical one, and the Incite Effect is the mental one.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 05, 2013, 04:48:30 AM
If you go with your idea of making her choose between her aura and her Incite then it would make sense for her to use guns while her aura was up. And you might be able to justify having the Incite use Guns, if you're creative. (The justification would probably be at least partly BS, but honestly I can't think of a skill that really fits with no BS at all.)

That aside, here's a version of Shatterbird.

(click to show/hide)

City-Wrecking Scream lets Shatterbird attack an entire city at once. Computers are wrecked, and people are subjected to ambush attacks with accuracies and weapon ratings that depend on the amount of silicon nearby.

You shouldn't expect to see it on anyone other than Shatterbird. It's like Leviathan's special Power: a kludge designed to model something that doesn't fit nicely into DFRPG. Not a well-written Power at all.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 05, 2013, 05:39:57 AM
Creepiest Crowning Moment of Heartwarming ever. Suck it, Sophia.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 06, 2013, 07:06:15 AM
And here's Defiant.

The power armour stuff is mostly made up, I'm not really sure what his armour is supposed to do.

I write Implanted Items there to signify that some of his items have been incorporated into his body. Not sure exactly how Implanted Items should work as a Power, though.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 06, 2013, 12:56:06 PM
The aspects are perfect.  The powers look good.  I think anything builtin should just be a power. Most of his powers ARE his armour.  I suppose you could make it an iop but i'm not sure he can actually take it off anymore.

The enchanted items are perfect although the nano blade could be interpreted as aeaebg.  Maybe the sword of the cross version that requires a fp to use.

What is the tinker power...i suppose i could go through the thread and find it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 06, 2013, 06:09:27 PM
The aspects are perfect.  The powers look good.  I think anything builtin should just be a power. Most of his powers ARE his armour.  I suppose you could make it an iop but i'm not sure he can actually take it off anymore.

It can still get messed up, I would think. Plus, he needs the refresh bonus for staying in the positive range.

Quote
The enchanted items are perfect although the nano blade could be interpreted as aeaebg.  Maybe the sword of the cross version that requires a fp to use.

They cause tons of damage to everyone, not just piercing Toughness. Therefore, they're just really powerful weapons.

Quote
What is the tinker power...i suppose i could go through the thread and find it.

Tinker = Thaumaturgy, except Craftsmanship = Discipline, Scholarship = Conviction. Lore is still Lore, though.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 06, 2013, 06:20:09 PM
They cause tons of damage to everyone, not just piercing Toughness. Therefore, they're just really powerful weapons.

It goes through Everything!  Endbringers included.  But yes, a high weapon value would definitely represent this.  Especially since you can use an enchanted item slot to turn a normal little dagger into an instrument of death that can cut through concrete.

Speaking of IoP  I might attach that to his halberg somehow, actually.  This can actually be lost...although, he can summon it back to himself....but still.  Complications and compels...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 07, 2013, 01:26:47 AM
The IoP stuff is honestly kind of arbitrary. For the sake of the writeup I'm assuming he can and sometimes does take his armour off. If he can't, his Aspects should reflect that so that he can be Compelled. And the Item Limitation should be removed.

You can make up for the lost Refresh by removing Inhuman Speed or something.

As for the Halberd, I'm treating it as a multi-function enchanted item.

I think anything builtin should just be a power.

I considered giving him Natural Weaponry instead of Implanted Items to represent his built-in nano-thorn generators, but weapon 2-4 just seemed piddly compared to what he was capable of.

And there are a lot of other gadgets which might be part of his body that are easier to represent as Enchanted Items than as Powers.

The enchanted items are perfect although the nano blade could be interpreted as aeaebg.  Maybe the sword of the cross version that requires a fp to use.

What narphoenix said.

Also there is a level of Toughness that defeats them, and they're ineffective against Physical Immunity and Recovery.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on November 07, 2013, 04:08:52 AM
Speaking of Immunity and Recovery, I think we underestimated Crawler. I just reread Prey, and nothing actually stops him. You shouldn't be able to take him down via physical stress.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 07, 2013, 04:38:32 AM
Speaking of Immunity and Recovery, I think we underestimated Crawler. I just reread Prey, and nothing actually stops him. You shouldn't be able to take him down via physical stress.

Piggot did.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 07, 2013, 04:55:05 PM
Anyway. Inspired by series on deviantart, I give you:

EDWARD CULLEN VS. THE WORMVERSE

Basically: various ways Edward Cullen dies thanks to work characters. I'll start us off, but please add:

1.
*Edward is pinned to the ground, struggling to get up thanks to a mass of bugs*
Taylor: I'd give up struggling, if I were you. Bugs can exert a force several times their own weight. This is checkmate. *pours gasoline, lights match*

2.

Tattletale: So, basically, you're a pedophile who uses bestiality metaphors, you're an emotionally abusive boyfriend, and you're a mass murderer.
Edward: I-I don't wanna live anymore. *rips own head in half*
Tattletale: *grins and uses flamethrower*

3.

Dinah Alcott: The probability you will survive the next 3.4 seconds is 0.000674 percent.
Edward: *spontaneously bursts into flames*

4.
Bonesaw: YAY! GLITTER ART!!!
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 07, 2013, 07:14:04 PM
I actually think the Cullens would do okay in the Wormverse. They're pretty powerful, and smart enough to keep their heads down. There are things that would eat them for breakfast, but as long as they kept to themselves they probably wouldn't meet any of them.

Anyway, the Crawler thing was discussed starting here. (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,37922.msg1930225.html#msg1930225)

Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 08, 2013, 04:56:12 AM
Anyway, here's my take on Dinah Alcott:

(click to show/hide)

Lore is peak for obvious reasons. Her Resources are high because she could answer one question a week for people in Asia and be set for life, as she puts it. Contacts are high because she's the former mayor's niece and the cousin of a hero, not to mention everyone wanting to ask her questions. I briefly debated dropping Prophecy: Mental Library seems much to what she can do. But ultimately, I kept both.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 08, 2013, 06:51:17 AM
Mostly looks good.

I dunno about the balance of that last stunt, though, and Mental Library has some baggage that might not be appropriate. Should Dinah be able to learn which hairstyles were popular in the Ottoman Empire with nothing more than her power?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on November 08, 2013, 07:03:56 AM
Isn't Inexplicable Knowledge handled almost entirely through Lore anyway?


Speaking of which, the skeleton of Tattletale's powers/stunts is probably going to end up being based on Inexplicable Knowledge and a few Lore stunts for skill-replacement. Maybe a Guide My Hand esque thing where she uses her power to understand stuff in non-knowledge situations.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 08, 2013, 05:04:16 PM
I dunno about the balance of that last stunt, though,

One one hand, Inexplicable Knowledge uses a fair amount of skills. But on the other, one of the primary skills is Lore, anyway. I figure that the stunt should be balanced.

Quote
and Mental Library has some baggage that might not be appropriate. Should Dinah be able to learn which hairstyles were popular in the Ottoman Empire with nothing more than her power?

Mental Library has a situation built in for this. It says to resolve any limits with compels (which works because you need an aspect related to having it anyway). And Dinah isn't super limited, either. She could figure out a fair bit by asking the right questions.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 08, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
Isn't Inexplicable Knowledge handled almost entirely through Lore anyway?

No, it uses all knowledge skills.

One one hand, Inexplicable Knowledge uses a fair amount of skills. But on the other, one of the primary skills is Lore, anyway. I figure that the stunt should be balanced.

Inexplicable Knowledge doesn't really have its own skill breakdown. It just uses normal knowledge skills.

So that stunt basically lets Lore absorb most of Scholarship wholesale. Plus it gives Lore the knowledge trappings of Performance, Guns, Weapons, and probably some other skills.

Mental Library has a situation built in for this. It says to resolve any limits with compels (which works because you need an aspect related to having it anyway). And Dinah isn't super limited, either. She could figure out a fair bit by asking the right questions.

I guess, but Compels are a pretty crude tool. And Dinah has a limited number of questions per day, which would make research difficult.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Magicpockets on November 10, 2013, 10:47:57 AM
Slightly off-topic, but I hope one of you can help me: Is there a way to read Worm without Wordpress? That site is blocked in the country where I am currently staying, and it will be another couple of months before I get back. Standard Proxies like TOR don't work here.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 10, 2013, 10:51:35 PM
I don't think so, but it's just text. It can easily be copy-pasted onto other sites. Copying the entire story would take a while just due to sheer length, though.

Which chapter are you on?

If Wildbow doesn't mind, I can copy an arc or two into a Tumblr post.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Magicpockets on November 11, 2013, 10:40:13 AM
I haven't even started yet. I've heard about Worm after I traveled to China, and am really curious about it.

Any copying would be much appreciated as long as the original Author doesn't mind.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Stirge on November 11, 2013, 08:28:06 PM
Slightly off-topic but I used Skilled Projection for a villain in my IRL game recently. It went over fantastically, thanks for converting it over :-).  A lot of these custom powers and character conversions are getting lost in the thread (and it's extra hard to search characters with the spoiler tags). Has anyone considered a google doc or similar to add these all to?

You guys are right about Grant Powers needing more of a limit.  The following version has a limit to the amount of powers you can share, Refresh-wise:

Grant Powers [-2]: Touching a person allows you to grant them some or all of your powers for the scene, worth up to 4 Refresh total.  If they are unwilling, you must succeed a Fists vs. their Athletics to affect them. Only one person can benefit from a particular one of your powers at a time (see below).
    [+2]: Power Genie: Only someone else can benefit from some of your powers, not yourself.  When you select this, you must declare which powers it effects.
    [-1]: Share Powers: An additional person can benefit from the same sharing of power.  This may be taken multiple times, using the progression table*.
    [-1]: Extended Duration: At the cost of a Fate Point, Grant Powers lasts for an entire session.  At anytime you can use an action to ‘rescind’ the powers you’ve granted.
    [-1]: You can grant an additional 2 Refresh worth of powers at a time. This may be taken multiple times.

(*I don't think table quite exists, but it would look like the Time Progression people.  A minute = a person, a couple minutes = 5 people, 15 minutes = 15 people, etc...)

As for the broken combinations of powers, there's many of those already in the DFRPG that is broken (Not the worst offender, but Supernatural Toughness is taken for [-1] too many times by PC's IMO).  I think a healthy character approval process by the GM needs to be observed in every game to prevent abuse.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 11, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
I haven't even started yet. I've heard about Worm after I traveled to China, and am really curious about it.

Any copying would be much appreciated as long as the original Author doesn't mind.

Sent you a PM with Gestation 1.1, the first chapter.

It's not the most practical method, but Wildbow would rather I not put it up publicly.

If you could give me your email address, it would be a whole lot easier for me to send you the story.

Slightly off-topic but I used Skilled Projection for a villain in my IRL game recently. It went over fantastically, thanks for converting it over :-).  A lot of these custom powers and character conversions are getting lost in the thread (and it's extra hard to search characters with the spoiler tags). Has anyone considered a google doc or similar to add these all to?

Glad it worked for you.

We already have a big list with just about every custom Power around, but these aren't on it because it's been a while since the last update. Eventually I'll update the list (and the wiki) to include these (and some other new-ish stuff).

You guys are right about Grant Powers needing more of a limit.  The following version has a limit to the amount of powers you can share, Refresh-wise:

Grant Powers [-2]: Touching a person allows you to grant them some or all of your powers for the scene, worth up to 4 Refresh total.  If they are unwilling, you must succeed a Fists vs. their Athletics to affect them. Only one person can benefit from a particular one of your powers at a time (see below).
    [+2]: Power Genie: Only someone else can benefit from some of your powers, not yourself.  When you select this, you must declare which powers it effects.
    [-1]: Share Powers: An additional person can benefit from the same sharing of power.  This may be taken multiple times, using the progression table*.
    [-1]: Extended Duration: At the cost of a Fate Point, Grant Powers lasts for an entire session.  At anytime you can use an action to ‘rescind’ the powers you’ve granted.
    [-1]: You can grant an additional 2 Refresh worth of powers at a time. This may be taken multiple times.

(*I don't think table quite exists, but it would look like the Time Progression people.  A minute = a person, a couple minutes = 5 people, 15 minutes = 15 people, etc...)

Much better.

I'd be willing to give it a try as-is, though I'd expect some problems to come up. It still looks a bit abusable.

Who spends the Fate Point for Extended Duration?

As for the broken combinations of powers, there's many of those already in the DFRPG that is broken (Not the worst offender, but Supernatural Toughness is taken for [-1] too many times by PC's IMO).  I think a healthy character approval process by the GM needs to be observed in every game to prevent abuse.

DFRPG isn't perfectly balanced but it's better than most of the games I've looked at. No sense in making it worse.

As for Supernatural Toughness, if you use Limitation instead of The Catch you won't have that problem.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 12, 2013, 02:09:20 PM
Contessa:

What about using zcthu3's  Kerberos Club Skill Power Tiers.

Give her the max dice replacement except she'd get it for any skill she put her mind to.  Kind of like a modular ability restricted to this power with a skill shuffle based on the particular task she's trying to accomplish.

Make it a full round action because she needs time for the precog to kick in for the task - assign the appropriate number of refresh for each skill you need and shuffle the skills so that those are the apex ones. 

Now she's rolling +7 +1df + 3d6  (or whatever he'd suggested the power do).  Her skills would be +9 to +26 for any given skill roll with an average of 17.5

Give her Godlike and she's rolling her skill +4d6.  a minimum of +4 to whatever she's putting her mind towards.

Godlike would be, what? -12 refresh?  she'd need it for a minimum of at least 3 skills: -36.
-2 Modular abilities
-4 full for a full skill shuffle.

total: -42

In one exchange she could have 3 skills at her highest tier attached to this power.

She'd need a limitation since it doesn't work within any power that suppresses precog abilities.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 15, 2013, 04:19:00 AM
Something like that would probably work.

But I'd rather not use Custom Powers if I don't have to. Particularly not probably-broken Custom Powers like those ones.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 15, 2013, 01:24:08 PM
Heh.  Contessa's broken. That's why I thought of it :)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Stirge on November 15, 2013, 05:56:59 PM
Hey there, I'm starting a Worm/DFRPG game set in St. Louis.  I'm wanting to run a moderate refresh game (10 Refresh/25 Skill Points), with younger characters along the lines of the Undersiders/Brockton Bay Wards at the start of the story.

I wanted to put a post here because y'all would be the most interested.  The thread is awaiting approval (I didn't realize that was a thing here!) but will eventually be found at:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39713.0.html

Until then, if you want to read what I'm planning to help with character ideas:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 19, 2013, 05:28:43 AM
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 19, 2013, 05:42:33 AM
Actually, I'm not too happy with this ending. It feels kind of cheap.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 19, 2013, 06:17:36 AM
Actually, I'm not too happy with this ending. It feels kind of cheap.

I disagree. It gives a nice feeling of hope after the crap wildbow put us through. It gives a nice message of "yes, the world may be in the crapper, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean there isn't good."

Plus Hick called it:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 19, 2013, 06:22:12 AM
I don't think that message was needed, though. Isn't it obvious that there's good in the world?

PS: I never found the two-bullet thing terribly convincing. It's not like she's got any real reason to conserve ammunition.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 19, 2013, 06:27:59 AM
I don't think that message was needed, though. Isn't it obvious that there's good in the world?

But who deserves a happy ending more than the person who made it possible for /everyone else/?

Quote
PS: I never found the two-bullet thing terribly convincing. It's not like she's got any real reason to conserve ammunition.

No. But she has a power that would let her kablam her in one shot. Why waste?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 19, 2013, 06:30:59 AM
I don't much care what she deserved, I just don't think this makes for a good ending. Also I only sort of believe in the concept of deserving.

And Contessa's power doesn't minimize things like bullet expenditure unless she specifically asks it to, as far as I know. If she just asks for a path to killing Taylor, she might be told to use one bullet or two or a thrown rock or any number of other things.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 19, 2013, 10:45:05 PM
Anyway, Sancta? Could you ask wildbow what a power has to be to rate different numbers on the scale in each category? Tattletale seemed to imply there was an objective measure.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on November 19, 2013, 10:59:50 PM
I am feeling hella smug because i'm one of the people who

(click to show/hide)

It wasn't what I was expecting, but I liked it.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on November 20, 2013, 12:36:20 AM
Also, I just noticed this line from the end. And I cracked up.

"...Valkyrie standing off to the side, trying to look far less interested than she was as a young man tried on a white bodysuit."

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on November 20, 2013, 12:47:46 AM
I'm not too exciting about how it ended.  It kind of puttered out.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 20, 2013, 05:07:01 AM
Anyway, Sancta? Could you ask wildbow what a power has to be to rate different numbers on the scale in each category? Tattletale seemed to imply there was an objective measure.

Sure.

Also, I just noticed this line from the end. And I cracked up.

"...Valkyrie standing off to the side, trying to look far less interested than she was as a young man tried on a white bodysuit."

I thought that was funny too.

Author commentary indicates that the young man was probably a resurrected Clockblocker.

I'm not too exciting about how it ended.  It kind of puttered out.

Me neither, but we seem to be outvoted. It looks like a strong majority of readers like the ending.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Stirge on November 22, 2013, 11:33:10 PM
Hey there, would love your input on this thread.  I tried to make a power that would help us convert some Worm characters like Clockblocker as well as help me stat some of NPCs for my Worm PBP game.

"Affliction":
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39783.0.html
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on December 04, 2013, 06:18:22 AM
This stat block came to me with a little thought, so I thought "What the hell?" and decided to preset you with a (very probably severely lowballed) Taylor as of when Jack woke up:

(click to show/hide)

Precognition comes from these lines:

Quote from: Scarab 25.6
I’d seen the shift coming, and the bugs on the faces of the buildings let me know that the attack was coming a fraction of a second in advance.
...
I’d only dodged as much as I had by virtue of the ability to sense where the bugs that clung to the blades were moving, and enough luck to be able to move into a space that escaped the various thrusts.

Which to me describe textbook Precognition. The Lore Stunt is because she's been reading up. The Unfettered custom stunt is because...you've met her.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on December 04, 2013, 10:24:26 AM
This stat block came to me with a little thought, so I thought "What the hell?" and decided to preset you with a (very probably severely lowballed) Taylor as of when Jack woke up:

(click to show/hide)

Precognition comes from these lines:

Which to me describe textbook Precognition. The Lore Stunt is because she's been reading up. The Unfettered custom stunt is because...you've met her.

Nice though I'd put the skills a bit different, aka buff Investigation (she can listen and follow everyone) and Empathy (pretty much perfect perception of muscle tone) to the cost of Athletics (superb Athletics makes me think of a climber hanging with two fingers on a cliff face) and Scholarship (I think she only had really time to study during her prison sentence).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 05, 2013, 01:46:39 AM
You know, it's become clear that you and I have very different ideas of what a given Refresh level means. I think Taylor could work with 13 Refresh and 40 skill points, you think 21 Refresh and 50 skill points is lowballing it.

I wonder why.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on December 05, 2013, 02:43:01 PM
You know, it's become clear that you and I have very different ideas of what a given Refresh level means. I think Taylor could work with 13 Refresh and 40 skill points, you think 21 Refresh and 50 skill points is lowballing it.

I wonder why.
I think it depends strongly if one counts everything Taylor's power can augment as base skills.
With her power one can easily advocate significant buffs on Alertness, Intimidation, Presence, Craftsmanship, Empathy, Stealth, Deceit, Rapport (potentially Scholarship if one can count braille reading) (and later in the game even on Weapons/Guns).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on December 05, 2013, 03:33:26 PM
You know, it's become clear that you and I have very different ideas of what a given Refresh level means. I think Taylor could work with 13 Refresh and 40 skill points, you think 21 Refresh and 50 skill points is lowballing it.

I wonder why.

This is when she takes on Jack the second time, not when she first becomes Weaver (which is what I assume you wrote up with Scuba Diving). She's probably Jack's equal at that point, as explicitly stated by Golem. The reason I'm thinking I may be lowballing is the Endbringer Fights. The several of them.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 05, 2013, 11:57:15 PM
She doesn't do much in those Endbringer fights that indicates really high stats, though. At least as far as I know.

The Snorkelling/Scuba Diving writeup was meant to cover all of her time as Weaver. She might get stronger over the years, but not so much that I thought new stats were needed.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on December 06, 2013, 02:06:55 AM
She doesn't do much in those Endbringer fights that indicates really high stats, though. At least as far as I know.

Yes but Milestones. Especially the first Khonsu and the first Tohu/Bohu fight. And as I pointed out, the latter /clearly/ demonstrates Precognition.

Quote
The Snorkelling/Scuba Diving writeup was meant to cover all of her time as Weaver. She might get stronger over the years, but not so much that I thought new stats were needed.

I disagree. Given that several points are made about her being Jack's equal, I think she probably was by that time. And Endbringer fights tend to Milestones. Minor at minimum, mostly Significantt, with definite Major on quite a few occasions(the Brockton Bay and the New Delhi fights, as well as the first Khonsu and T/B fight).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 06, 2013, 07:37:13 AM
Yes but Milestones. Especially the first Khonsu and the first Tohu/Bohu fight.

...

And Endbringer fights tend to Milestones. Minor at minimum, mostly Significantt, with definite Major on quite a few occasions(the Brockton Bay and the New Delhi fights, as well as the first Khonsu and T/B fight).

Milestones don't quite work that way. They happen at the end of sessions, scenarios, and plotlines. Brockton Bay, New Delhi, and Khonsu #1 are all very milestone-ish, the others aren't really.

But Taylor is not a DFRPG character. She doesn't advance milestone-style. So the point is moot.

And as I pointed out, the latter /clearly/ demonstrates Precognition.

That passage just demonstrates good awareness and dodging skills. Precognition isn't necessary.

It's not inappropriate either, but her character works just fine without it.

Pretty much all characters do. It's the kind of power that's easily represented by narrating your actions differently.

I disagree. Given that several points are made about her being Jack's equal, I think she probably was by that time.

Maybe she was. But that doesn't mean she has the same amount of skills and Refresh. Those concepts don't exist in the Wormverse.

Plus, Jack could be Snorkelling. I didn't write him that way, but I certainly could have. He'd just need an easy way to take Sponsor Debt.

Honestly, I don't think this difference in opinion is about Taylor specifically. You seem to stat everyone a bit higher than I do. And I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying it's a thing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on December 06, 2013, 03:34:32 PM
Milestones don't quite work that way. They happen at the end of sessions, scenarios, and plotlines. Brockton Bay, New Delhi, and Khonsu #1 are all very milestone-ish, the others aren't really.

But Taylor is not a DFRPG character. She doesn't advance milestone-style. So the point is moot.

Technically, Harry isn't either. We still model it that way.

Quote
That passage just demonstrates good awareness and dodging skills. Precognition isn't necessary.

It's not inappropriate either, but her character works just fine without it.

Pretty much all characters do. It's the kind of power that's easily represented by narrating your actions differently.

The passage explicitly describes her dodging before the attack. We don't get that with many others.

Quote
Maybe she was. But that doesn't mean she has the same amount of skills and Refresh. Those concepts don't exist in the Wormverse.

They don't in Dresdenverse, either.

Quote
Plus, Jack could be Snorkelling. I didn't write him that way, but I certainly could have. He'd just need an easy way to take Sponsor Debt.

Jack is too skill heavy to be Snorkeling. Plus, he isn't shown to take many compels, which he'd need to if he was taking Sponsor Debt.

Quote
Honestly, I don't think this difference in opinion is about Taylor specifically. You seem to stat everyone a bit higher than I do. And I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying it's a thing.

That's...fair. But I'm wondering who else you're basing this off of. The only other person I can think of whom I've statted up is Dinah, and you have no post for her.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 07, 2013, 07:37:19 AM
Technically, Harry isn't either. We still model it that way.

...

They don't in Dresdenverse, either.

Well, yeah. You don't say Harry has to have higher stats in Cold Days than in Turn Coat because he went through a bunch of Milestones. You say it because he's demonstrably more powerful.

Pre-timeskip Taylor and post-timeskip Taylor are not terribly different in power. But Leviathan-fight Taylor is much weaker than Behemoth-fight Taylor. It's not about milestones, it's about what the character in question does onscreen.

The passage explicitly describes her dodging before the attack. We don't get that with many others.

True, but that's just good dodging practice in general. I try to do the same when I spar, with limited success.

Jack is too skill heavy to be Snorkeling. Plus, he isn't shown to take many compels, which he'd need to if he was taking Sponsor Debt.

The skills would be tricky but I think I could wrangle something with stunts. As for Compels, it's debatable? Is it a Compel when Jack lets Theo live for two years? Is it a Compel when he agrees to play a ridiculous game with the Brockton Bay capes? I think you could model those actions that way.

That's...fair. But I'm wondering who else you're basing this off of. The only other person I can think of whom I've statted up is Dinah, and you have no post for her.

I've seen your characters on the PbP forum, and we've talked a lot. I think I have a decent idea of your DFRPG-related habits.

If you want specific examples, we briefly discussed the power levels for Panacea and the Undersiders in the Worm PbP thread. Your assessments were significantly above mine.

So yeah. It's an unscientific assessment based on personal familiarity.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on December 07, 2013, 10:21:19 AM
This is when she takes on Jack the second time, not when she first becomes Weaver (which is what I assume you wrote up with Scuba Diving). She's probably Jack's equal at that point, as explicitly stated by Golem. The reason I'm thinking I may be lowballing is the Endbringer Fights. The several of them.

I don't remember anyone saying she was jack's equal.  Was it while she and golem were sparring?

I remember golem saying their powers were similar.  Jack was supposed to have a power he wasn't aware of.  She manipulated/surrouned herself with insects and he did the same with capes.
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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on December 08, 2013, 12:27:39 PM
I don't remember anyone saying she was jack's equal.  Was it while she and golem were sparring?

I remember golem saying their powers were similar.  Jack was supposed to have a power he wasn't aware of.  She manipulated/surrounded herself with insects and he did the same with capes.
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If I remember it right "Fighting Jack is like fighting Taylor, to much awareness of their surroundings" and the general sentiment of Golem that Taylor is "Jacks true nemesis" or something like that (around Killington he says that I think).

Personally I follow the idea that Jack=Black Knight (from the Contessa Interlude), "=wins against any cape".
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on December 17, 2013, 11:02:54 PM
So, because this seems to be the de facto thread for Wildbow's work, I suppose i'll post this here.

Anyone read the previews of what wildbow is doing now that Worm is over? They're on his blog and i'll edit in a link if someone needs it. The previews thus far are-
-Peer (Fantasy)
-Face (Cyberpunk)
-Boil (Biopunk)

My personal favorite so far is Boil.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on December 18, 2013, 12:54:11 PM
Anyone read the previews of what wildbow is doing now that Worm is over? They're on his blog and i'll edit in a link if someone needs it. The previews thus far are-
-Peer (Fantasy)
-Face (Cyberpunk)
-Boil (Biopunk)

I have the hardest time deciding, the only thing I am sure is that I don't like Battle Royale (Face). Though Face has the most interesting main character, but then Peer has the most interesting setup for conflict, Boil the most interesting setting and Pact the most gripping first chapter.

But ultimately I can't say no to medical abominations of science, (I was kinda looking for a book about the medical advances available to us within the next 100 years).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on December 18, 2013, 01:47:34 PM
I'd love a link
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on December 19, 2013, 02:34:15 AM
Here's the link (http://wildbow.wordpress.com/) to wildbow's blog. All the previews can be found there, in the "blog posts" sidebar.

Now, more of my opinions!

I sort of hate Face. Battle Royale is cool when done well, and cyberpunk sounds like a great setting for that plot archetype, but versus the others, it's not too great.

Pact was a little too reminiscent of the Demonata series to really capture my interest. Maybe the second chapter will captivate me.

Boil is my new greatest love. I want it. I want it so bad.

Peer was sort of unbearably dull, speaking as a gigantic, gigantic fan of that type of fantasy. I slogged through the Stormlight Archive and loved it. Game of Thrones makes me weep tears of joy. Peer? Peer was a weird combination of "too much infodump" and "not enough infodump". It's part of the reason I like Boil- setting stuff is introduced organically, but there's just enough infodump to it so that you aren't completely in the dark about the setting.

If I had to pick, it'd go Boil>Face>Pact>Peer.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Magicpockets on December 25, 2013, 08:06:31 AM
Just finished reading Worm. Wow, what a ride! Makes me want to play a game in that setting.

Regarding power choices for real life, it boils down to this for me:
Tier 1: Infinitely versatile powers. E.g. Eidolon and Glaistig Uaine. These outclass the others so much that choosing them is almost no contest.
Tier 2: Highly (but not infinitely) versatile powers. My favorites here are probably Contessa and Bonesaw.
Tier 3: A strong package deal with some versatility. Crawler and Alexandria.
Tier 4: A single strong power with versatile application: Numbers man, Teacher and Legend would be my choices

A question regarding the Eidolon vs Scion fight:
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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on December 26, 2013, 12:11:12 AM
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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 26, 2013, 12:27:51 AM
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Just finished reading Worm. Wow, what a ride! Makes me want to play a game in that setting.

We've got one going on the PbP board.

Tier 1: Infinitely versatile powers. E.g. Eidolon and Glaistig Uaine. These outclass the others so much that choosing them is almost no contest.

Actually, I really wouldn't want Glaistig's powers. They start out kind of weak, using them is morally dubious, and even once you've built them up all the way you still have to work through the hands of others. No thanks.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Magicpockets on December 26, 2013, 01:17:19 AM
Thanks for the Eidolon clarification!

We've got one going on the PbP board.


I don't suppose there's room for one more? The game looks well under way now. Even if not, I wish you guys fun and will occasionally drop in to read.

Actually, I really wouldn't want Glaistig's powers. They start out kind of weak, using them is morally dubious, and even once you've built them up all the way you still have to work through the hands of others. No thanks.

Been thinking about this too. I think I would work as a coroner if I had Glaistig's power. This way, it would be ok morally.
As for the "working by proxy" part, I kinda like that actually. It's like having three (superpowered) people attending your every need.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 26, 2013, 04:41:55 AM
I don't suppose there's room for one more? The game looks well under way now. Even if not, I wish you guys fun and will occasionally drop in to read.

You should really talk to the GM about that. If I had to guess I'd say there probably isn't room right now, but since player attrition is inevitable in PbP a space will probably open up eventually.

And thanks for the best wishes.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 02, 2014, 01:01:17 AM
Turns out Pact is the next story.

Wonder if I should make a Pact-character-statting thread.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on January 02, 2014, 05:06:29 AM
Damn!

I was really hoping for Boil. I love biopunk.

Anyway, I was thinking about how to translate some of Worms characters powers into DFRPG concepts. Here's what I got.

Contessa-Emissary of Nike (goddess of victory)
Miss Militia-Emissary of War
Weld- Half-Metal Elemental
Regent- Neurokinetic Body Thief
Grue- Hob Changeling
Number Man- Intellect Spirit
Jack Slash- Half-Spirit Elemental (kinetic stuff and mind stuff)
Imp- Psychically Invisible Psychomancer
Skitter- Emissary of Anansi
Armsmaster- Vigilante Technomancer
Dragon- Technology Elemental/Spirit
Aegis- Half-Flesh Elemental
Vista- Teenage Ouranokinetic
Burnscar- Half-Hellfire Elemental
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 02, 2014, 07:25:54 AM
Glad I'm not the only one thinking of Anansi. Of course, I was thinking about him in the sense of "immortals whom Alice connived to death" sense, but still.

Anyway, a write up for the biggest badass in Worm:

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 03, 2014, 01:58:48 AM
Damn!

I was really hoping for Boil. I love biopunk.

Anyway, I was thinking about how to translate some of Worms characters powers into DFRPG concepts. Here's what I got.

Contessa-Emissary of Nike (goddess of victory)
Miss Militia-Emissary of War
Weld- Half-Metal Elemental
Regent- Neurokinetic Body Thief
Grue- Hob Changeling
Number Man- Intellect Spirit
Jack Slash- Half-Spirit Elemental (kinetic stuff and mind stuff)
Imp- Psychically Invisible Psychomancer
Skitter- Emissary of Anansi
Armsmaster- Vigilante Technomancer
Dragon- Technology Elemental/Spirit
Aegis- Half-Flesh Elemental
Vista- Teenage Ouranokinetic
Burnscar- Half-Hellfire Elemental

Hm.

Honestly, I dunno if the Dresdenverse has such a selection of elementals. I'd be more inclined to use faeries and demons.

Also: Contessa really seems like an intellectus user to me.

Glad I'm not the only one thinking of Anansi. Of course, I was thinking about him in the sense of "immortals whom Alice connived to death" sense, but still.

Anyway, a write up for the biggest badass in Worm:

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Looks about right to me.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 10, 2014, 03:48:20 AM
So Pact characters so far in general seem to need to take Ritual/Thaumaturgy, Mastery of Ritual/Channeling/Evocation, or some sort of self-Sponsored Magic (possibly tied to Item of Power). Oh, and Demense. We'll need to monitor further to decide how to refine this depending on the character.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on January 10, 2014, 04:20:52 AM
I haven't started on Pact yet. Is it good?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 10, 2014, 07:59:04 AM
It starts out meh, but it's starting to hit the ground running.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 13, 2014, 04:41:41 AM
Finally got around to reading Pact. Really impressed so far.

Too early to do any stat-writing, though. I just hope the mechanics of the Pact-verse are DFRPG-compatible.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 13, 2014, 05:57:51 AM
Finally got around to reading Pact. Really impressed so far.

Too early to do any stat-writing, though. I just hope the mechanics of the Pact-verse are DFRPG-compatible.

It's shaping up to be. I'd expect tons of sponsored magic.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 14, 2014, 01:52:49 AM
There are three things that concern me, though.

First up, Dresden-style blast-o-magic might not be a thing in this setting. If it's not, the mechanics will need serious adjustment.

Second up, the Others seem to have funky symbolic powers rather than straightforward stuff like Inhuman Strength. I would have a lot of trouble statting up that imprisoned demon, for instance.

Third up, familiars might require decent minion rules. And we don't really have those.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 14, 2014, 02:04:10 AM
There are three things that concern me, though.

First up, Dresden-style blast-o-magic might not be a thing in this setting. If it's not, the mechanics will need serious adjustment.

Second up, the Others seem to have funky symbolic powers rather than straightforward stuff like Inhuman Strength. I would have a lot of trouble statting up that imprisoned demon, for instance.

Third up, familiars might require decent minion rules. And we don't really have those.

1) If it's not, switch to Thaumaturgy. Not that hard.

2) You should have had a hard time statting up the Numbers Man, but you pulled out Numerical Prodigy just fine. Same concept: hack what you can, make up new powers if you can't.

3) Counterargument: Bitch.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 14, 2014, 03:52:19 AM
1. Thaumaturgy can be used for blasting, if you've got it at Evocation speed. Which some practitioners must, since that time-skip spell was awfully quick. And rituals have baggage of its own that might not be appropriate. Plus Evocation is part of the basic Sponsored Magic package. Not an insurmountable problem, but a problem.

2. The Number Man's power is more mental than DFRPG's Powers usually are, but it's still a fairly-straightforward effect. Once you get into weird metaphorical stuff, things get much harder. Because the edges of the power get fuzzier, and DFRPG generally has pretty clearly-defined effects for its Powers.

Have you read Neil Gaiman's Sandman? I wouldn't even know where to start writing up the Endless in DFRPG. And I get a similar vibe from the Others so far.

3. That's not a great set of stats, there. I'd rather not repeat that performance.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 14, 2014, 05:34:59 AM
1. Like you said, it's workable.

2. Um. There's a /maaaaaaaaaajor/ difference between the Others and the Endless. Mainly? The Endless are the sorts of being MOTHER WINTER would shit her shawls about. I mean this literally: Atropos didn't solo Dream in Volume 9. And when Mother Winter (Atropos) was backed by her two sister selves while they were essentially having their way with the Dreaming (because Dream /let/ them, mind you), Death only had to raise her voice before they backed away timid.

The Others are potent, sure, but they aren't comparable to the Endless.

3. They work.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on January 14, 2014, 05:55:50 AM
I just got completely caught up on Pact. I can't say I'm in love with it. I generally prefer my urban fantasy to be more along the lines of Dresden or the Iron Druid Chronicles, where the "fantasy" is pretty clear cut and follows clear rules. Maybe i'll get more into it as it goes on, but so far, i'm still really disappointed it wasn't Boil.


And narphoenix, i think Sanctaphrax was referring to the fact that attaching stats to the Endless is beyond pointless because they're both so far beyond gods it's almost a joke, and their powers are nothing like clearly defined. That combination means that attaching any kind of stats to them, especially with a ruleset like the DFRPG, would be monumentally difficult. To use your example, if I had Mother Winter appear in a game, i might give her a skill set and maybe a few stunts, but I wouldn't even know where to start with powers.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 14, 2014, 05:58:43 AM
2. It's not a question of power, really. If it was, I could just use bigger numbers. It's a question of the way they operate.

It's never made clear exactly how the power of the Endless manifests itself. When (for example) Dream uses his godlike power, it tends to be weird and he rarely repeats a trick.

Plus there are nebulous limitations on Dream's power. What they are exactly is unclear. But they're important, so they can't just be left out. Compels can do a lot of the heavy lifting, but not all of it.

The basic problem is that, in order to stat something in DFRPG, you need a clear idea of what that thing can and cannot do. Obtaining such an idea is impossible when it comes the Endless. And the Others might end up in the same boat.

I guess I could write them up in Nobilis, but I'm not as good with that system.

3. Not well enough. If I was satisfied with that level of quality I could write up almost anything, but...I'm not.

Really, there's not much point doing something like this if you're gonna do it poorly.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 15, 2014, 04:50:35 AM
2. My point is, with the Endless, it's pretty clear that there really is not much of a definition to their power. I mean, once you get to "I was imprisoned but then I restructured reality to make my captor my prisoner instead", I'm sorry, you're done. With the Others, I think they're more like the Fae in that you can't get much of a /template/ for them since they're so varied, but you could probably stat individual ones.

3. I'm sure you'll figure something out.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 15, 2014, 06:07:15 PM
You seem to have a lot of faith in me...
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 16, 2014, 04:27:56 AM
You seem to have a lot of faith in me...

Let's see here:

14 quintillion characters statted up? Check.

Running not one but TWO games simultaneously for a span of at least a year or two? Check.

Guy who came up with 8000 different fixes for the game? Checkarooni.

It's not faith. it's logic.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Faultline74 on January 18, 2014, 08:57:56 AM
Was poking around the forums Monday since I recently decided to try to get my friends to play DFRPG, and stumbled upon this thread. It peaked my curiosity so I read the first chapter and was hooked. I spent this week reading Worm and just recently finished, I have to say Worm was one of the best web serials I've read and even though Wildbow says its his "first draft" (I can't wait to see what its going to be once he actually gets it published, even though it may be a while) its damn good and would put it up there with some of my favorite books.

Had to drop in and say my thanks to Sanctaphrax for starting this thread, had you not started it I would have never heard of Worm.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 18, 2014, 09:01:53 PM
Oh look. Blake's badass is showing.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 18, 2014, 09:17:59 PM
You're welcome, Faultline.

And I'm glad that I could point you to Worm.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 19, 2014, 03:04:03 AM
Especially since Faultline is also the name of one of the capes there.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on January 24, 2014, 08:02:00 AM
So I've had an idea for a Perdition-like power (limited time reversal) and was wondering if you guys would critique it. I'm not sure on cost either, since this is can be a pretty broken power if used in conjunction with others.

Quote
Time Reversal [-?]
Description: You have the ability to reverse time for yourself, giving you a limited view of the future.
Skills Affected: All
Effects:
Warned in Advance: Any attack that is able to be avoided and does not kill you allows you a second chance to avoid it. If you are not Taken Out by an avoidable attack you may tag your High Concept for a +2 or reroll, once per round.

It's essentially a free fate point that applies only to dodging, which makes it a very powerful ability if used in conjunction with, say, a speedster power or teleportation.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 24, 2014, 08:05:04 AM
So I've had an idea for a Perdition-like power (limited time reversal) and was wondering if you guys would critique it. I'm not sure on cost either, since this is can be a pretty broken power if used in conjunction with others.

It's essentially a free fate point that applies only to dodging, which makes it a very powerful ability if used in conjunction with, say, a speedster power or teleportation.

This is basically Precognition without the skill roll or bonuses to noticing stuff.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on January 24, 2014, 08:15:21 AM
I should really learn to check the wiki before posting things.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 25, 2014, 12:05:44 AM
It's different enough that it could work as its own Power, I think. Probably costing -2, since that's what I'd charge for a flat +2 to defence rolls.

That aside, here's Grey Boy. Low-ish power level because his only notable skill is intimidation, but lots of Refresh.

Used the Affliction custom Power, which probably isn't balanced when pushed this far.

If you've got any suggestions for better Aspects, I'm listening. I don't think I really captured the smug way he revels in his power over others.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on January 30, 2014, 05:12:33 AM
Welp. It's official. We know what Blake Thorburn's Trouble Aspect is (Spoiler for Pact)

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on January 31, 2014, 01:12:55 AM
Someone broke a shit load of mirrors.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 04, 2014, 10:16:31 PM
Some info on power classifications from Wildbow. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Swjz8BZZNE4bq6lTkHanTK4sJ-K_xVlFudxA16mYjH4/edit#heading=h.j83zu0o2t8cs)
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: dpara on February 04, 2014, 10:30:34 PM
Some info on power classifications from Wildbow. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Swjz8BZZNE4bq6lTkHanTK4sJ-K_xVlFudxA16mYjH4/edit#heading=h.j83zu0o2t8cs)

Let's not forget where this comes from: http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/prt-department-sixty-four-worm-quest.283888/
Which is kinda incredibly unpublicised xD, on another note the spacebattles forum, oh wonders, is fast, fast! I tell you!
..Well back to reading worm fanfiction.

Someone broke a shit load of mirrors.
I really wonder if Rose can claim (ALL, ..many) reflective surfaces as demense, a deal with Bartimaus that he gets to eat whoever bothers her during the claiming mmh.
Also will I get a cookie if I guess correctly that blakes tool is gonna be his keys?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on February 04, 2014, 10:39:11 PM
Some info on power classifications from Wildbow. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Swjz8BZZNE4bq6lTkHanTK4sJ-K_xVlFudxA16mYjH4/edit#heading=h.j83zu0o2t8cs)

Awesome.

Also: HOLY CRAP. That means Taylor's base Master classification (not what Tagg told everyone to treat her as) involves "Get everyone out, don't /fuck/ with her without it being the mission, and make sure you have everyone and their brother watching your back."
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on February 12, 2014, 03:21:00 AM
Laird's a sonofabitch...Laird's a sonofabitch...Laaaaaaaaaiiiiird's a sooooooonofabitch... LAIRD'S A SONOFABITCH!!!!
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on February 13, 2014, 12:56:38 AM
Also , Sanctaphrax. Can you stat Golem (Theo) by any chance?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 13, 2014, 04:56:23 AM
I could, yeah. He'd basically be another effect-inciter. Spider Climb might be appropriate too, though it would need reflavouring, since IIRC he can make staircases of hands and stuff.

Stuff like the giant hand he deployed against Behemoth could probably be handled with high-difficulty maneuvers.

If I have time and/or want to procrastinate something else, I'll take a crack at him sometime soonish.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on February 13, 2014, 05:29:40 AM
I could, yeah. He'd basically be another effect-inciter. Spider Climb might be appropriate too, though it would need reflavouring, since IIRC he can make staircases of hands and stuff.

Cool.

Quote
Stuff like the giant hand he deployed against Behemoth could probably be handled with high-difficulty maneuvers.

That one comes across as more of a defensive block against lightning. If you're starting him up with Incite Effect, he probably just did a bunch of maneuvers to get it blocking Behemoth's evocations. Or his Dangerous Aura, maybe. 

Quote
If I have time and/or want to procrastinate something else, I'll take a crack at him sometime soonish.

Cool.

Also, Gray Boy Aspect: YOUR SUFFERING IS MY SATISFACTION
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 14, 2014, 05:53:50 AM
That one comes across as more of a defensive block against lightning. If you're starting him up with Incite Effect, he probably just did a bunch of maneuvers to get it blocking Behemoth's evocations. Or his Dangerous Aura, maybe.

Sounds about right to me.

Also, Gray Boy Aspect: YOUR SUFFERING IS MY SATISFACTION

Added.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 10, 2014, 12:50:51 AM
Two things:

How's Golem coming? And could you stat Moord Nag?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 10, 2014, 01:43:51 AM
No progress. I've had other things to do, and it wasn't a priority.

As for Moord Nag, maybe. We don't know much about her, so it's hard to be sure how to stat her.

Like...can she send her shadow far away from her? Why is she still alive, if she's a normal human apart from the shadow? What does she get out of having her shadow consume people?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 10, 2014, 08:03:30 PM
No progress. I've had other things to do, and it wasn't a priority.

As for Moord Nag, maybe. We don't know much about her, so it's hard to be sure how to stat her.

Like...can she send her shadow far away from her? Why is she still alive, if she's a normal human apart from the shadow? What does she get out of having her shadow consume people?

The first seems to be a no, but she can extend it greatly (depending on circumstance, i.e. how many people has she eaten, I guess). I don't understand the second question: a shadow is not essential for life. Power, but that's admittedly vaguely defined.

Hm. Based on what we've seen of her, I'd give her Dangerous Mutual Conductive Damage Shield (with possible upgrades to Lethal and Reflective, depending on how many people she's eaten recently), an Immunity that starts at against life forms and scales up depending on how many people she's eaten (possibly up to Total Immunity for 5000 lives and above, based on what she said about taking on an Endbringer). Ranged Natural Weaponry (with a whole bunch of upgrades) + Strength (again scaling on how many people she's eaten) also seems to be in the cards. Possibly an All Creatures and Objects are Equal Before Me, again Limited based on how many people she's eaten. She needs a High Concept of THE NAMBIAN WAR LADY and a Trouble Aspect of (very minor spoilers for Speck) CANNOT STAND TO LOSE CONTROL.

EDIT: Oh, and Dangerous Aura. Forgot about that one.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 10, 2014, 08:09:21 PM
I don't understand the second question: a shadow is not essential for life.

Basically, why hasn't she been shot?

If she sends her shadow after someone smart, they're not going to waste attacks on it. They're gonna try and kill her. Given how many people she's fought and beaten, why have none of them tagged her with something lethal?

Is she just a really lucky dodger?

Anyway, it sounds like you have a plan for her. Why not write her up herself?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 10, 2014, 08:21:34 PM
Basically, why hasn't she been shot?

If she sends her shadow after someone smart, they're not going to waste attacks on it. They're gonna try and kill her. Given how many people she's fought and beaten, why have none of them tagged her with something lethal?

Is she just a really lucky dodger?

Anyway, it sounds like you have a plan for her. Why not write her up herself?

She has Damage Shield and Dangerous Aura to represent her Shadow. And she could probably eat a bunch of peons to power up before going up against someone smart/powerful/both. And her shadow could probably cover for her (maybe giving her Toughness too: damn, she's a scary lady).

Time. I might end up doing so, but I can't right now.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 11, 2014, 12:34:35 AM
Even if touching the shadow is dangerous and it can shield her, there are plenty of Blasters and Shakers who could kill her pretty easily. I'm thinking she might have something else up her sleeve.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 11, 2014, 03:13:30 AM
Even if touching the shadow is dangerous and it can shield her, there are plenty of Blasters and Shakers who could kill her pretty easily. I'm thinking she might have something else up her sleeve.

They couldn't kill her easily, at least, not before she eats them. She's probably smart enough to just walk in prepared. Tattle did describe her as the Undersiders writ large.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 11, 2014, 04:08:05 AM
I don't think that would be enough. No matter how smart you are, stray bullets can find you. And there are a lot of capes with non-dodge-able attacks. If they see you and you're not a Brute/Breaker, they can kill you.

Maybe she can hide inside the shadow. Or maybe she can send it out to kill people while hiding in a fort.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 11, 2014, 04:26:37 PM
I don't think that would be enough. No matter how smart you are, stray bullets can find you. And there are a lot of capes with non-dodge-able attacks. If they see you and you're not a Brute/Breaker, they can kill you.

Maybe she can hide inside the shadow. Or maybe she can send it out to kill people while hiding in a fort.

I don't put it past her to have her shadow surrounding her if she needs it (hence Toughness). In fact, the only attack I can recall that would unerringly hit her even if her shadow surrounds her is Lily's, which would be what's /supposed/ to happen. I remember Butcher had something similar, but again, shadow could probably cover her. Oh, and she needs Wings, because her shadow can pick her up and move her around, which gives her tons of mobility.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 12, 2014, 04:43:52 AM
Grey Boy could get her through the shadow. So could Cherish. But they're both among the more unfair characters in Worm.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 12, 2014, 05:23:52 AM
Grey Boy could get her through the shadow. So could Cherish. But they're both among the more unfair characters in Worm.

Grey Boy is bullshit and Cherish is mental attack. She's probably somewhat weak to mental assault anyway (see how she's the first to crumble in Speck).

But you're forgetting her location. Being a parahuman is /heavily/ selected against where she's from. Most of them are immolated/shot/decapitated. By normals.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 12, 2014, 06:00:57 AM
The fact that ordinary people in her neighbourhood want to kill her just makes her survival even more puzzling.

Grey Boy is bullshit and Cherish is mental attack. She's probably somewhat weak to mental assault anyway (see how she's the first to crumble in Speck).

Someone in her area must have mental attack powers. But she's still alive.

And then there are the Strangers. How does she avoid being ganked by someone like Nice Guy or Imp or Valefor?

PS: There are actually more parahumans in the third world than anywhere else. Says so early in the story.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 12, 2014, 01:37:34 PM
The fact that ordinary people in her neighbourhood want to kill her just makes her survival even more puzzling.

Someone in her area must have mental attack powers. But she's still alive.

And then there are the Strangers. How does she avoid being ganked by someone like Nice Guy or Imp or Valefor?

PS: There are actually more parahumans in the third world than anywhere else. Says so early in the story.

Yes, but ordinary people get eaten passively and the large number of parahumans in the third world aren't the same parahumans each week. They change over from one to the next to the next without much effort. So I can't imagine they're very well trained in their powers' nuances.

Plus, while she may not have any equals, do you put it past her to have underlings with powers? I wouldn't.

But all the same, I might be inclined to give her a Supernatural Sense for life. It would let her keep anyone from getting the drop on her and fits her concept.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on April 29, 2014, 05:48:06 PM
So I'm running a Worm RPG and I've been using the Tinker power (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Tinker) developed by Stirge pretty extensively to model, well, Tinkers. The rules work quite well and don't appear to be any more powerful than standard power usage is, but I can't help but feel that it could do with some more work.

More specifically, I'm not sure about Encryption and the distinction between Element/Non-Standard Element from the Complexity list. Encryption is probably meant to mimic the Ward keys from DF Canon, which work as a white list for usage. The Element conundrum is more problematic, because I don't see any real difference between the standard elements and things like Sonic or Electricity. That makes the cost difference something of a problem in my eyes.

Personally I'd go with averaging out the cost to 1 point per element, no matter what it is. Does that sound reasonable?

For the Power list we started with no cost listing for Duration, so I assigned it 1 point per extra round of duration. Not sure this is enough, to be honest. Other than that I'm fairly good with the costs for Power and with the range of effects you can choose from.

The size limit is good too, but it kinda constrains you to always have some points in size decrease, which limits the amount of points you can spend on other things in the Complexity list.

Anyone got any ideas for how to improve this?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on April 29, 2014, 05:58:18 PM
Why not 3 elements for free then 1 pnt for each one thereafter?

Allowing specialization might help too

Edit: expanding on that.  I don't see why tinker's can't specialize.  It's even a part of the Fiction: each Tinker had his/her Niche.  Why not take some categories from the list and let them specialize.

So specialty +1 complexity(size decrease); +1 complexity (Encryption); +2 Power (Area)

So you get a rebate for items with those specialties.  It has to follow the specialty pyramid, as normal.  Rebates don't stack and you take the highest rebate.  Or, possibly, those bonuses get added as bonus points for an item you're making.

Edit2: expanding further.  Say you are Armsmaster and your Niche is fitting lots of gear into a small item.

Let's say his pyramid(with refinements) is +5 (Size decrease); +4 (shift of effect: damage); +3(shift of effect: block); +2 (Increase Frequency); +1 (built in Tracker).  His Scholarship is 7.

You get a total number of bonus points based on your highest specialty.  These points do not count towards the complexity limit of your item but the total complexity cannot be greater than twice your scholarship.  These points must be spent on your specialties.  (seems like a lot but I gave him 6 or 7 refresh worth of refinements.)

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on April 29, 2014, 07:29:36 PM
Why not 3 elements for free then 1 pnt for each one thereafter?

That sounds like a decent idea. Working along refinement lines there.

Quote
Allowing specialization might help too

Edit: expanding on that.  I don't see why tinker's can't specialize.  It's even a part of the Fiction: each Tinker had his/her Niche.  Why not take some categories from the list and let them specialize.

So speciality +1 complexity(size decrease); +1 complexity (Encryption); +2 Power (Area)

So you get a rebate for items with those specialities.  It has to follow the speciality pyramid, as normal.

Let's take a quick look at this.

With the current system a Submerged Tinker can have an optimised set up like so:

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That's one of 8 different items a Tinker can have. Other examples could be a set of Power Armour with +4 Armour for a total of 16 hits (+4 Frequency, +1 Duration), a helmet with +9 skill replacement for Guns, and so on. Pretty powerful, and batteries work much more effectively than fuelling items with mental stress does in the RAW for Devices that require frequent usage.

Now if we look at a specialisation set up (optimised for the highest possible power):

(click to show/hide)

So a Tinker with specialisations could replicate the effects of a Tinker with Focus Items (with a bit of a bonus), but only in one area. That's... a good idea, though it does a bad job of modelling characters like Leet, who are fairly low in skill points, but high in refresh using this system. Then again, Leet probably has a huge Limitation attached to his refinements.

I think I like your system more than the current one. We'd need a write up for it first though. I'll have a go at it later. Might have trouble incorporating the specialities that don't have numerical bonuses attached like Inflicts Mental Stress [3pts]. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on April 29, 2014, 08:16:33 PM
Huzzah! Here is Moord Nag:

High Concept: Nambian War Lady
Trouble Aspect: Must Always Be In Control

OAs:

Woman of Her Word (Mass Murder Aside)

Nom Nom Nom. Yay, I'm Stronger!

My Shadow and Only Friend

Skills:

6: Intimidation, Fists
5: Endurance, Presence
4: Discipline, Athletics
3: Athletics, Contacts, Resources
2: Lore, Might, Stealth
1: Survival, Weapons, Empathy, Conviction, Guns


Stunts:

Calm Blue Ocean [-1]

Interrogator [-1]

You Don't Want Any Of This [-1]

Powers:

Selective Area Ranged Natural Weaponry [-4]

Large Super Extra Dangerous Aura [-5]

Inhuman Toughness [-2]

Immunity (Direct Melee Attacks from Regular Life Forms) [-6]

Wings [-1]

Mutual Conductive Damage Shield [-3]

Tier One Limitation (1000 human lives in the last week) [+1]

Potent Upgrade for Natural Weaponry [-1]

Vast Aura [-1]

Dangerous Damage Shield [-1]

Supernatural Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]

Extended Long Reach [-2]

Tier Two Limitation (3000 human lives in the last week) [+2]

Venomous Upgrade for Natural Weaponry (applies DECAYING TO DEATH) [-2]

Hyper-Dangerous Aura [-1]

Lethal Damage Shield [-1]

Supernatural Strength [-2]
Mythic Toughness [-2]

Super Extended Long Reach (5 Zones) [-1]

Tier Three Limitation (5000 human lives in the last week) [+15]

Mythic Strength [-2]

Reflective Damage Shield [-1]

Immunity (Physical Stress: this cost is reduced because of previous Immunity) [-16]

Absolute Reach (Line of Sight) [-1]

Base Refresh: 21
Refresh Cost: -44
Starting Refresh: -23

Feel free to ask questions. I don't feel like a summary thingy right now.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 30, 2014, 02:52:42 AM
I'm not a big fan of Stirge's take on Tinker-ing. It always seemed overly complex to me. Personally I'd replace it within something just like Thaumaturgy except it uses different skills, every effect has to be described as an item, and...

-Items can't be activated with mental stress. But they can be recharged with an hour or so of work.
-Attack items must use an appropriate combat skill.
-Item strength is hardcapped at Capes + Scholarship rather than Capes x 2.
-Defensive block items require actions to activate, like other items. Armour items, however, are still action-free.
-There is no such thing as a Crafting specialization/focus. But complexity bonuses also boost strength and control bonuses also boost frequency. So a Tinker specialized in gas is better with gas items than with non-gas items.

That cuts off the most abusable enchanted item tricks while including a second skill and letting every Tinker Craft in a different way. Makes things feel more technology-ish, too.

Might be good to add something about item size. Also, maybe ditch the recharging option if it proves abusable. Craftsmanship or Scholarship could cap frequency.

As for Moord Nag...

Aspects look good, though I might include something about ethnic pride or something. She refused to speak English for a reason, though I'm not sure exactly what that reason was.

Skills would be good, except she's got Athletics twice.

Powers I take more issue with.

I don't really think Immunity is appropriate. She's not actually immune to attack, as far as we know.

There are some weird interactions, too. Like between Long Reach and Ranged Natural Weaponry, or Toughness and Immunity.

And finally, I think the Limitation values are wrong. +15 for the third Limitation just seems crazy compared to the other two. Did you maybe mean +5? The lower tiers give small rebates for killing thousands, which is a big effort. I doubt there'd be many Namibians left if Moord Nag ate that many. I'd make it just a few people, maybe even just one, for the mild tier 1 Limitation. Then maybe a few hundred or a thousand for the moderate tier 2, and the current five thousand or maybe even more for a severe tier 3.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on May 02, 2014, 03:03:21 AM
Who's Sleeper.  Did they ever go in to it?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 02, 2014, 04:40:48 AM
No, they never explain anything about him. Fan speculation holds that his power is super-intimidation: everyone, no matter who they are, is convinced he's too dangerous to mess with. And that's his only power.

But seriously, he's probably a holy terror.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: PirateJack on May 02, 2014, 04:10:52 PM
We only know a few things about him:

1) He's an S-Class threat.
2) Khepri judged him too dangerous to control. Could be either too dangerous to attempt to control or too dangerous to use with the rest of her swarm.
3) He subsumed the entire population of Earth-something or other. To subsume means to absorb, but nobody really knows what that means.
4) He hibernates (or goes dormant) for long periods of time between attacks.
5) At one point he attacked Anchorage, Alaska.
6) He likes to read.

So not much to go on, really.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 02, 2014, 05:48:20 PM
One other thing: he looks human. He's not some kind of Noelle-esque super-monster.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 20, 2014, 03:10:39 AM
And here's Theo/Golem. Not the most exciting sets of stats, but functional enough I think.

Conviction is his Incite skill. Seemed as appropriate as anything, and I thought making it his apex skill fit him pretty well.

It's been a while since I read Worm, though, so I may have missed something. If you notice a problem, point it out.

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 25, 2014, 02:23:38 AM
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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 25, 2014, 08:21:12 PM
No response, huh? Bit disappointing.

Anyway, this was a tricky project. Partly because Zion's abilities are fuelled by his lifespan, and DFRPG with its session-by-session balance can't really accommodate that. I just made that an Aspect, but I put a Limitation on his future-sight-related abilities to reflect how reluctantly Zion uses them.

Speaking of those abilities, Zion can probably path-to-victory his way to success at pretty much any conceivable activity. But he only ever uses that power for dodging and the occasional word-attack, so I didn't bother to represent his entirely-hypothetical mastery of cheesemaking.

Speaking of which, the bottom of his skill pyramid makes no sense at all. Unavoidable, given that he never uses a tool of any kind and has no connection to human civilization. Makes it hard to create a functional skill pyramid.

Zion's information-gathering and knowledge-related abilities are vast but vague, so he gets 7 Refresh worth of undefined Supernatural Senses.

Stepping between dimensions isn't quite like going to the Nevernever or travelling long distances in the real world, but it's close enough for government work. So he gets Teleportation and Swift Transition. He kinda needed Teleportation anyway since he can get anywhere more or less instantly.

I'm not gonna specify exactly what healing power Zion has, since healing in this system is hard to stat. I'm just gonna say Zion's got a healing power worth 2 Refresh and leave it at that.

Normally I don't use Limitation on Immunity since there's not much point, but since I was putting a hole in the Divine Toughness anyway it made sense here.

Quite a few custom Powers came in handy here. Funny how unrelated work tends to come together when you do something big.

Didn't put much thought into the Aspects; please feel free to suggest better ones.

And...yeah. That's the story. On an unrelated note, I think this might be the highest-Refresh DFRPG character I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on August 25, 2014, 09:38:11 PM
Oh! Didn't notice this. Zion's awesome.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on August 25, 2014, 11:21:55 PM
I was going to say something but was waiting for your comments.

Although, I'm not sure there's much to say...he's a plot device.  100 refresh seems about right. 

I like the mental catch and the high concept is perfect.

I don't know what divine toughness is.  Just upgraded from mythic?

I also like how you used your new rules for scaling.  It works well for Worm...I'm not sure I'd use it for Dresden, though.

Why venomous on the natural weaponry?  Just people catching fire n' stuff?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Hick Jr on August 25, 2014, 11:31:55 PM
Zion looks great. Beyond the unavoidably nonsensical things like the bottom of his skill pyramid, this seems like a really solid writeup to me. Well done.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 26, 2014, 12:53:48 AM
Thanks.

I don't know what divine toughness is.  Just upgraded from mythic?

It's a custom Power for gods. Each (2 Refresh) level is like a level of physical and mental toughness, but you need to be immune to normal attack if you want to take it. The idea is that you need something like a Sword of the Cross to hurt a god, and even then it's not exactly easy.

Why venomous on the natural weaponry?  Just people catching fire n' stuff?

There are several points in the story where Scion's golden light continues to eat away at an injury after the attack is over. Figured I might as well represent that, though to be honest creative narration could handle it just as well.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 26, 2014, 08:31:46 PM
I realized that he really should have No Metabolism, and I wanted to keep the Refresh cost round, so I dropped a level of Divine Toughness and added a point of Supernatural Senses.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: vultur on August 27, 2014, 02:47:32 AM
(click to show/hide)

Refresh Cost -100? Is that the highest anyone's ever done?

Also, is he really completely immune to physical stress with no physical Catch?
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on August 27, 2014, 03:32:42 AM
Refresh Cost -100? Is that the highest anyone's ever done?

Also, is he really completely immune to physical stress with no physical Catch?

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Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 27, 2014, 07:14:49 PM
Refresh Cost -100? Is that the highest anyone's ever done?

As far as I know, yes.

Also, is he really completely immune to physical stress with no physical Catch?

He is. His durability is pretty straightforward, it's not some kind of mystical thing. He's just so damn tough that being hit with every nuke in the world is a minor inconvenience.

I guess I could make it something like armour 100 and 1000 extra stress boxes, but immunity is easier.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Taran on August 27, 2014, 07:28:32 PM
So, really, only the equivalent of a White Court Vampire of Despair could take him out, assuming they knew about Eden.  In fact, they could probably one-shot him...or they'd have to, otherwise he'd obliterate them.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 14, 2014, 08:44:40 PM
Well, that would depend a bit on the GM. Mundane despair works, but should magical despair? Is a supernatural sadness beam going to work on something so alien, and is it going to get into the mental crack left by his sister-wife's death?

I guess I'd say yes, if I was GMing. If a White Court Vampire finds his weakness and manages to get a shot at him, they deserve a chance to take him out.

That aside, here (http://imakethecard.tumblr.com/tagged/Parahumans)'s a side project of mine that y'all might find interesting.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 14, 2014, 09:44:23 PM
Well, that would depend a bit on the GM. Mundane despair works, but should magical despair? Is a supernatural sadness beam going to work on something so alien, and is it going to get into the mental crack left by his sister-wife's death?

I guess I'd say yes, if I was GMing. If a White Court Vampire finds his weakness and manages to get a shot at him, they deserve a chance to take him out.

That aside, here (http://imakethecard.tumblr.com/tagged/Parahumans)'s a side project of mine that y'all might find interesting.

This (http://undersiders.deviantart.com) is ALL THE WORM FANART. Seriously. Most of the art that's missing from your cards can be made up from either the gallery or the favorites (the latter especially has an AWESOME Glastig Uaine).
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 15, 2014, 03:45:35 AM
Huh. You know, I knew about that gallery, but it never occurred to me to look in the favourites. I'll poke around in there, see how many gaps I can fill.

Unfortunately good fanart isn't necessarily good card art. Card art has to fit in a rectangle that's wider than it is tall. So who knows how much I'll be able to use.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: narphoenix on September 15, 2014, 03:54:42 AM
Huh. You know, I knew about that gallery, but it never occurred to me to look in the favourites. I'll poke around in there, see how many gaps I can fill.

Unfortunately good fanart isn't necessarily good card art. Card art has to fit in a rectangle that's wider than it is tall. So who knows how much I'll be able to use.

The Khepri drawing has a Doormaker/Clairvoyant you can cut out, along with a Zion that has been used for a card.
Title: Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 30, 2014, 12:51:11 AM
And now for Sophia, everybody's most favourite character.

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