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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: arianne on April 12, 2011, 04:06:53 PM
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So...I'm working on a sci-fi tale at the moment, and it's set in San Francisco (why set it in a city I have never been to? No idea. But Muse says San Francisco, and when Muse talks, I do ;D)
I'm hoping that someone who lives in the city or has been there many times can help me out with this. My questions are:
1) which area of San Fran would clubs (night clubs) be likely to be located in?
2) which is an area where the poorer people live (one of the characters is unemployed, where would he be likely to live?)
3) which is an area that you would NEVER walk through after dark, even if someone PAID you, because chances are you would get mugged. And re-mugged. And maybe mugged some more. Like rough neighborhoods are what I'm after.
4) which is a more suburban-y place where you see nice houses with four floors and an attic, and a nice front yard, and driveway and all. I'm hoping for somewhere slightly secluded, too. Don't worry about the price range--the characters are rich, they can afford it :D
5) a nice coffee shop that most people would know and go to (and please not $tarbucks. Please)
6) a mall or shopping area located close to the place where the poorer people live (I know, why would someone build a mall near people who don't have the cash to buy stuff? But just close-ish would be good enough. Maybe biking distance?)
7) and, not really a location question, more of a culture question--is Wiccan/magic type of stuff widely accepted in San Francisco?
I know that's a lot of questions!! It would be cool if you could answer just one; you don't have to answer all of them in one go!!
Deepest thanks in advance to anyone who can help ^^
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well, it sounds like ROAD TRIP time! Enjoy! Even if you get this information from someone, it will be sketchy at best. To make it ring true, I really think a visit is in order. San Fransisco is an incredibly rich and diverse place. It has its own flavor and feel--like DC or New Orleans or Vancouver. The cultural differences alone would be incredibly difficult to write about unless you've at least brushed up against them, i.e. China Town. It's also a 3D city...as much of your description would be looking up at the hills, Coit Tower, etc or looking down on Alcatraz, the bay, the Golden Gate bridge from the nearby hill tops. Read that to mean that even satellite research isn't going to give you the right San Francisco taste... Then there are the weather descriptions.... believe me, in San Fransisco it FEELS different minute to minute from location to location!
I wish you well on your research--because the road trip will be a blast!
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I grew up in Oakland, but haven't been back for more than a week in 10 years. So I can help you some, but not with everything.
In general, San Fransisco is kinda like the Manhattan borough of the metropolitan area, usually just called The Bay Area. The Phone Books all just say West Contro Costa County. Lots of ridiculously steep hills, cold fog every morning. Oakland is the slightly rougher (or maybe just less touristy) part across the Bay Bridge (think Brookland). It is buoyed by the fact that it blends straight into Berkeley to the north, which is an ultra liberal college town with an above average share of hippies and the occasional nudist out for a walk. North of that is Richmond, which is the middle class suburban area I grew up in. Well, technically I grew up in Pinole, the tiny town to the north that hasn't visibly changes in 20+ years and is known for its "timelessness" (which is the nicest way I can put it). That town ends rather abruptly into hilly graze-lands. The average resident would be aware of a painful commute from there to any of the main parts of town using either a parking lot of an interstate, or taking the back way around the hills to the Caldecott Tunnel straight into berkely.
North of SF there is some sparce-ish stuff on the inner side, and hilly park lands between you and the beach, but is more the stereotype california beach town type stuff than anything SF specific. South of SF I have much less experience with. Its got the main airport for the area (there is one in Oakland too, but its a pain to get in and out of). Past that it trickles out into various smaller towns and suburbs along the bay as most large cities tend to do, but I cant tell you much more than that.
If you go to SanFransisco and don't go to the Exploritorium, you've done something wrong that you will regret for the rest of your life. A giant hands-on museum. Lots of perception illusions etc. You know those Plasma Balls you see in Spencers and every mad scientist's lab? Invented just as a hands-on demonstration for this place. Loves me that place, and have never heard of somebody having less than a blast there, even when initially forced to go.
1)Was too young when I was there
2)Depends on mobility. There are some low income places in oakland, some slightly better ones nearer the university, or else a drive or Bart ride (what they call the above ground subway system) from the more fringe areas like richmond.
3)Downtown Oakland comes to mind. There are probably some areas in SF proper as well, but too much walking up and down those hils tends to suck quick.
4)Richmond. Anywhere works for middle class. Country Clubs in East Richmond Heights/Kensington up on the hills, and the Richmond Golf Club to the north, near the water.
5)Couldn't tell you, need a more specific area. There are tons of little corner coffee shops etc, but no widely famous ones i know of.
6)Definitely Hilltop Mall in Richmond for an actual Mall. Most other shopping is more street, storefront, or boardwalk type setups. Or you know, the Costco.
7)As a rule sure. Like I said, they have nudists casually wagging down the street, so a little wiccan twist isn't going to raise eyebrows. Last time I was there fairy talismans were common wall hangings in the bookstores and such. That being said, they are not nearly as much the laid back live-and-let-live sort of hippie as you'd expect, especially for a town with such and open and nearly legal pot industry. Far more often you get the cause-head activist hippies, which are by nature more forceful with their opinions and beliefs. But it would be more a personal level friction, rather than a group movement of belief. Unless they think you are going threaten the bunnies with mascara, or sacrifice that poor chicken, or something that set em off. Then they can get just as idiotically close-minded as any other mass of people.
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1) which area of San Fran would clubs (night clubs) be likely to be located in?
Don't know off the top of my head
2) which is an area where the poorer people live (one of the characters is unemployed, where would he be likely to live?)
Tenderloin is pretty rough, smells like urine half of the time. Lot's of porn shops and strip clubs down here.
3) which is an area that you would NEVER walk through after dark, even if someone PAID you, because chances are you would get mugged. And re-mugged. And maybe mugged some more. Like rough neighborhoods are what I'm after.
See above
4) which is a more suburban-y place where you see nice houses with four floors and an attic, and a nice front yard, and driveway and all. I'm hoping for somewhere slightly secluded, too. Don't worry about the price range--the characters are rich, they can afford it
Richmond works,
5) a nice coffee shop that most people would know and go to (and please not $tarbucks. Please)
City Light books, it's one of the most popular private book store with cafe.
6) a mall or shopping area located close to the place where the poorer people live (I know, why would someone build a mall near people who don't have the cash to buy stuff? But just close-ish would be good enough. Maybe biking distance?)
There are a few of what your talking about near Market Square, which does have a mall bordering on the Tenderloin there are also a few other big department stores like Macy's a few blocks up surrounding Union Square.
7) and, not really a location question, more of a culture question--is Wiccan/magic type of stuff widely accepted in San Francisco?
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As always, I am AMAZED by the great, detailed replies I get here. ;D Thank you all sooo much!!!
Unfortunately road trip is out of the question as I live on the other side of the globe. So unless I win the lottery or something, I'm not going to be able to get out there anytime soon! :(
Just wanted to ask...is Richmond the type of place where you are likely to have a house that has no other house around it for at least a few miles? In my mind's eye I'm thinking of a house kind of halfway up a hill, and it's a big, "stately" sort of place that might be able to pass for a mini castle, or maybe a private school, something like that?
And about the weather...Quantus mentioned "cold fog every morning". Is it like early morning, five am fog, or like real morning fog that lasts until nine or ten in the morning? And does the fog mean that it tends to rain a lot too?
Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Just wanted to ask...is Richmond the type of place where you are likely to have a house that has no other house around it for at least a few miles? In my mind's eye I'm thinking of a house kind of halfway up a hill, and it's a big, "stately" sort of place that might be able to pass for a mini castle, or maybe a private school, something like that?
And about the weather...Quantus mentioned "cold fog every morning". Is it like early morning, five am fog, or like real morning fog that lasts until nine or ten in the morning? And does the fog mean that it tends to rain a lot too?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*deep breath*
Sorry, there isn't a place in the Bay Area (the area including SF, Oakland, San Jose, Freemont, etc.) where those things exist. There are plenty of neighborhoods with very, very, very nice houses that are ginormous, however there isn't enough land in the area for estates of that size. Although Atherton comes close to having "mini castles"
such as
(http://www.woodsidehome.com/303atherton_lg.jpg)
Which is selling for a paltry 6.9 million dollars.
As to the fog, it isn't every morning not by half, especially in the spring summer and parts of fall, unless you're counting high fog (also known as the marine layer) which just looks overcast until it finally burns away. It does tend to rain a lot and when you have low fog it feels very wet and heavy. There's more early morning fog that generally scatters with the sun, but again not as much in the summer time and not nearly as thick.
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Yeah, Muse, you hear that? NO STATELY HOUSES AVALIABLE!!!!
*Muse sighs*
Oh, well, it was a nice image while it lasted ;D
Back to the weather--does this mean that it rains more in the morning and afternoons and less so at night? (You know, if one were to base one's knowledge of San Fran on films and movies, one would believe that it NEVER rains in SF, except when the broken-hearted guy is walking--in slow motion--back home from his (ex) girfriend's house LOL)
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The rainy season is definitely from mid autumn to mid spring. And even then it doesn't rain constantly, it's weather is cool but not at all like that of Seattle. I would take a look at Weather Underground for details on when it is and isn't common to get rain.
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I usually don't post in this thread but thought I'd add a bit more info -
1. Clubs/night clubs - North Beach area has the largest concentration of clubs and restaurants.
2. On the Pennsula south of San Francisco proper, Daly City, South San Francisco, San Bruno (where
the gas pipeline exploded). In San Francisco, the Mission district and the area south of Market street
although that's becoming "Gentrified".
3. In SF itself, See 2 - Although I knew a guy who got mugged on Fisherman's Wharf. Suggest Googling
San Francisco Crime Maps for better information.
4. Marina District, Pacific Heights - although the lots in both of those areas are quite small.
Or San Bruno, Daly City and South SF also work.
5. I second City Lights Bookstore -
6. There are several shopping centers but SF doesn't really lend itself to malls.
7. Wiccan/Magic is quite common in S.F as are a number of non-Main stream religions
I'd Suggest also Googling San Francisco and looking at the combined Satellite/street map views
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I was just wondering, is it bad to set a story in a place you've never been to? And then I remembered that when JB set Harry Dresden down in Storm Front, he had never been to Chicago... ;D
Just curious though, is San Fran (in your minds, as people who have actually been there) an ideal spot atmosphere-wise for SF/fantasy, creepy-crawlies etc?
In my mind San Francisco is always dark, and the only thing you can see is the HUGE bridge and tons and tons of lights from the city buildings. :)
Not very accurate, I know. Seeing as how it's not always dark and all. (duh, Muse).
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Is San Francisco a good place to set an SF/Fantasy story?
You did know the San Francisco was the location for Star Fleet HQ in Star Trek, didn't you?
It's also the setting for Seananne McGuire's October Daye stories...
So yes - it's not always dark there but it's got loads of "atmosphere" even when the sun shines.
Again - Google is your friend -check San Francisco images...
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Well, in terms of history San Fransisco has one of the more layered pasts of any area in the US, a lot of which is still preserved today. From indian era stuff when California was one of the most culturally diverse areas in all of north america, to the Spanish era with the mission settlement, to various wars leading to becomming a US state, then teh explosion that was the Gold Rush, to the massive immigration from various pacific rim areas in the early 1900s to the Pasific front of WW2.
Not to mention various geographic plot fodder from the bay itself, the area's seismological/volcanic activity, gold deposits, and proximity to the Redwood Forests which hold both the worlds largest tree (the General Sherman Tree) and the worlds tallest tree (the Hyperion, part of the Grove of Titans along with teh Del Norte Titan, the Lost Monarch and other record breaking trees. "The location was described by author Richard Preston as "the bottom of a hidden notch-like valley near a glade." The exact location within the park has not been revealed for fear that excessive traffic will damage the grove."
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Ah. Google maps. Street view.
I think I'm in love ;D
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My brother has a photograph of one neat home with gargoyles... I'll see if I can find out where it was located for you. Really cool.
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Cool. Would love to see it!
Wonder if the owners would mind me "borrowing" their house? ;D
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1) which area of San Fran would clubs (night clubs) be likely to be located in?
um no idea, I'm not 21 yet so I can't get into any good clubs xP Look on yelp for nightclubs!
2) which is an area where the poorer people live (one of the characters is unemployed, where would he be likely to live?)
hmmm hunters point or the tenderloin
3) which is an area that you would NEVER walk through after dark, even if someone PAID you, because chances are you would get mugged. And re-mugged. And maybe mugged some more. Like rough neighborhoods are what I'm after.
hunter's point xP
4) which is a more suburban-y place where you see nice houses with four floors and an attic, and a nice front yard, and driveway and all. I'm hoping for somewhere slightly secluded, too. Don't worry about the price range--the characters are rich, they can afford it
St. Francis Woods is surrounded by kind of poor places but once you go into St. Francis woods theres a lot of beautiful trees, every house has a front lawn with flowers. High ceilings and some of the houses have beautiful gates in front of their huge front lawn. Theres a fountain in the middle of the community too. I don't think if its that suburbany (its a bit more extravagent) but thats the best I can think of
5) a nice coffee shop that most people would know and go to (and please not $tarbucks. Please)
no idea, I would refer to yelp
6) a mall or shopping area located close to the place where the poorer people live (I know, why would someone build a mall near people who don't have the cash to buy stuff? But just close-ish would be good enough. Maybe biking distance?)
ummm honestly I don't know but SF has a good public transportation system so really anyone can get to any part of the city fairly easily through muni/bart.
7) and, not really a location question, more of a culture question--is Wiccan/magic type of stuff widely accepted in San Francisco?
Honestly I don't know anyone who is Wiccan but I think in SF, these kind of things are generally more accepted than in other places since SF and the bay area in general is very liberal. If I had to guess, I would say the Castro might be the most liberal part of the city since that is where it is most gay-friendly.
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As a Berkeley native, I want to reiterate what was said up above about the Bay Area consisting of WAY more than just San Francisco itself. San Francisco is very strongly a non-isolated city, despite having to go across bridges to get to the other major parts of the Bay Area. Oakland/Berkeley/Richmond and San Rafael/Sausalito/Marin are all very definitely important parts of the San Francisco area.
Also, if you really do want a big isolated house on a hill, there are two places you could pull one off, though both are about an hour's drive from San Francisco proper. Behind the Berkeley hills you've got Orinda, Moraga, Lafeyette, and further out Danville, which are way more sparsely populated, and do have a fair number of mega-mansions out in the nearby hills. (I went to high school with kids from there--the parties they threw were pretty crazy, let me tell you.) Driving up the other way (due North) from SF, Mill Valley is home to some similarly palatial homes, though they're much closer together than the ones out towards Orinda.
I'd definitely spend time with maps of the Bay Area, familiarize yourself with the look of it. NYC is a very apt comparison--the different parts of the Bay Area are all very different from one another, but still interconnected. Also check out a map of the BART system, as it's vital for getting around, but only goes to certain places.
As for SF/F viability, frankly it doesn't get much better than San Francisco. It's full of weirdness, historically and currently. I actually just got done running an urban fantasy tabletop campaign set in SF. Good times ensued, I assure you.
~Duk
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1) which area of San Fran would clubs (night clubs) be likely to be located in?
All of them. Well, that's not true, but there are a lot of areas of San Francisco with nightclubs. The Marina, Northbeach, and Down Town all come to mind.
2) which is an area where the poorer people live (one of the characters is unemployed, where would he be likely to live?)
South San Francisco.
3) which is an area that you would NEVER walk through after dark, even if someone PAID you, because chances are you would get mugged. And re-mugged. And maybe mugged some more. Like rough neighborhoods are what I'm after.
I'm seconding the Tenderloin, but also some parts of the embarcadero, especially near the Greyhound station.
4) which is a more suburban-y place where you see nice houses with four floors and an attic, and a nice front yard, and driveway and all. I'm hoping for somewhere slightly secluded, too. Don't worry about the price range--the characters are rich, they can afford it :D
Pacific Heights
5) a nice coffee shop that most people would know and go to (and please not $tarbucks. Please)
Not a clue, though Borderlands would work if you want to go meta. They're a coffeeshop, but mostly a Scifi/fantasy bookstore.
6) a mall or shopping area located close to the place where the poorer people live (I know, why would someone build a mall near people who don't have the cash to buy stuff? But just close-ish would be good enough. Maybe biking distance?)
San Francisco doesn't really have Malls in my experience. It's too Urban for that. If you're willing to have your characters travel, then definitely Hilltop Mall over by Richmond. If you're staying local... I don't know.
7) and, not really a location question, more of a culture question--is Wiccan/magic type of stuff widely accepted in San Francisco?
... No. It's not unaccepted, but, I'd argue that it's not more accepted in SF than it is anywhere else in California.
As a Berkeley native, I actually want to disagree with the Bay Area consisting of way more than San Fran. The Bay Area certainly does, but we're really not that much like NYC. The San Francisco Bay Area and the city of SF are quite different, especially in terms of microcosms. Unless you plan for your characters to be spending quite a long time commuting (Traffic is lethal, and parking is impossible) then spreading your story out too far may cause problems. SF has everything you seem to be looking for, without needing to throw yourself across the Bay Area. As much as we're one unified place, we're not really very unified.
At the end of the day, most Bay Area people don't go into the City except when they're going into the city. It's not a big deal, but it's also not a nightly thing. Every major area (Berkeley, Oakland, SF, Marin [well, maybe]) has their own cultural stuff, their own food, and their own events. There's a lot of crossover, but not nearly as much as New York City has. We're a lot more spread out than NYC, too.
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Grrrrr. F*cking grrrr. I had this whole big thing written up here, and then my browser decided to play the Spinny Loading Icon game and I had to restart it, and I lost it all. Note to self for future endeavors: try copying posts every paragraph or so.
Okay, let me try again, though it probably won't be as long. I am not a San Francisco native: I was born and raised about twenty-five miles south, in a place called Redwood City. I'm not all that familiar with the city, nor am I entirely comfortable with it. I guess it's a bit like a fairy: very interesting and attractive and mysterious, but an undercurrent of danger and secrets and not all that pleasant things. Like most cities, it's got roughly two sides to it, and like a lot of other cities, there's no real defining line: the gritty stuff flows around the pretty stuff, so you're not gonna get far from it. Which really works for a supernatural story/setting. There's lots of locations you can do stuff in or have stuff set there. Golden Gate Park is REALLY high on my list of recommended locations: lots of areas to hide secret meetings and even a fairy court or two. Also, there are a LOT of areas with lots of overpasses and highways splitting and rejoining: lots of shadowy places for dark things like trolls to hide.
General notes: google maps and google street view are truly your friends. If Jim Butcher had had that when he'd gotten started on The Dresden Files, he'd get a few less light-hearted ribbings from fans. :p But it's very useful for planning routes and chase sequences. Wikipedia is another great source of information, so you can learn about famous districts, streets, and the history of the place. Even just googling stuff like "magic shops in san francisco" will get you some good results, though I'd recommend playing around with names a bit to avoid getting into trouble.
Other people have touched on the fog, but it's really worth bringing up: Frisco is FOGGY. We're famous for it, and for a fantasy/science fiction story it helps create an air of monsters hiding in the fog. Even in summer, it's cool and windy. In winter, it's wet and miserable. If you've got the sun, then it can get hot, but San Francisco is right at the end of the peninsula, jutting into the passageway between the ocean and the bay, creating some fun weather conditions. It's also hilly: from certain areas, you can see almost the whole city, while from others, you can't see anything besides huge skyscrapers and roads. Lots of roads. Though there are always trees, the smaller kind you get in cities that are planted regularly along the street.
The area around San Francisco - the Bay Area - is just as varied as San Francisco, and there's a lot of areas there for someone to get away to for an adventure or two, though relying on fast travel between any of these areas is silly at best. Traffic can get bad in San Francisco. I think the worst I've ever experienced was about an hour or so to go ten miles, and I just needed to drive across a highway running over San Francisco. So, hard to get around, but relatively easy to go to another location to expand your view. And of course, once you leave the San Francisco area, you've got Wine Country to the north, mountains to the east (eventually), Monterrey Bay to the south… there's a lot here. Also, the San Andreas fault is a great location for a ley line (I live about three miles away from the fault line, seriously)… oh wait, sorry, you're doing a science fiction story. Um… lots of wooded areas within about fifty miles of San Francisco to hide stuff in. Heck, Angel Island might be a good place for an alien landing site, and it's just across the bay from the city.
As for your questions… sorry, I'm not so hot on locations. I can do a bit of thinking and come up with some stuff for ya, if you'd want.
Man, all of this stuff is making me want to set an urban fantasy book in San Francisco. Where was Elaine working out of again? I can't remember.
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Funny how you never see the fog in Hollywood movies on San F ;D
And, um, when you say FOGGY, do you mean, "Jim, I can't see my fingers in front of my face?" or more like, "There is a mist about your person?"
I'm worried that the weather conditions might not be as good as I thought it was (grrr Hollywood for misleading me). Most of the action in the book happens at night, though, so maybe by then things will have cleared up and it will merely be a little chilly and a little misty?
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Funny how you never see the fog in Hollywood movies on San F ;D
And, um, when you say FOGGY, do you mean, "Jim, I can't see my fingers in front of my face?" or more like, "There is a mist about your person?"
I'm worried that the weather conditions might not be as good as I thought it was (grrr Hollywood for misleading me). Most of the action in the book happens at night, though, so maybe by then things will have cleared up and it will merely be a little chilly and a little misty?
Probably because fog is an impossible to control factor in filming. And it depends. Sometimes, it's just a generic fog around the whole city, other times visibility is down to about a thousand feet. If it helps, the fog is usually an early morning thing, burning off as the sun rises, though it can last for a while. So, it's not tule fog bad, but it can be VERY bad. We only get it a few times a year down here in Redwood City, so I've got some experience with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_fog
Here, have some cool pictures.
I actually have been in a fog almost bad enough to not be able to see too far in front of me. The problem was that I was on the freeway. Not a pleasant experience to basically see a big lump of fog then FOOMP everything's white and you can't see a thousand feet in front of you.
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Oooh, pretty fog!!
???
Okay, never mind *blushes*
It sounds like my night clubbing tale will not have a problem then....well, unless it rains.
Fog on the freeway has got to be THE scariest thing in the world...how did you get out? Or did you just stop and wait for it to fade? Or something?
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Oooh, pretty fog!!
???
Okay, never mind *blushes*
It sounds like my night clubbing tale will not have a problem then....well, unless it rains.
Nope, you should be okay. Unless something exceptional is going on, of course.
Fog on the freeway has got to be THE scariest thing in the world...how did you get out? Or did you just stop and wait for it to fade? Or something?
Slow down, lights on, and drive very cautiously.
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Just wondering if San Fran buildings have fire escapes, or if I'm channeling NY...?
Also, are there such things as boardwalks? I'm thinking of setting a scene in a boardwalk like place, but I guess it could just a street with a few vendors or something too. ;D
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I think most apartment buildings in the US have fire escapes certainly the newer buildings in San Francisco
have them....
There's no boardwalk as such in S.F but Fisherman's wharf and the Embarcadero district
comes pretty close - It has street vendors, shops, Ghiradelli Square (the old Ghiradelli
chocolate factory which is now a mall type place) the Wax museum, and all kinds of
other businesses. They are all pretty much on the south side of the street - the north side
is the bay and various piers and docks.
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Just wondering if San Fran buildings have fire escapes, or if I'm channeling NY...?
For the purposes of this thread, YES, buildings have fire escapes. OR they have an approved second means of exit. This is true for pretty much any state or city or town that has a building code and inspection office. You will find fire escapes on older buildings, buildings that were converted to apartments and anything that only has one way into and out of a multi-story building.
Most buildings constructed after 1970 or so will have an interior escape stairwell or something that provides 2 ways to get out of every apartment. Sometimes it is to a hallway that has a fire escape at the end or a separate landing on a single fire escape. Also, most cities only allow metal escapes if it is more than 3 stories.
I can give you the whole fire code thing, but I don't think you have insomnia!
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Fog on the freeway has got to be THE scariest thing in the world...how did you get out? Or did you just stop and wait for it to fade? Or something?
Its basically like driving in torrential rain where you cant see past you hood, just without the noise and traction issues.
Fwiw my dad just said the following in an unrelated conversation: "It's like Oakland: you have the Hills and the Flats. The Flats have shootings everyday, and the Hills hear about them on the news. Well, some of them."
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I wonder if someone could tell me how far it is from the Tenderloin area to St. Francis Wood (or is it Woods?) I've bought a couple of SF guide books and tried to find St. Francis Wood on it (there's just a place called "St. Francis Hotel"...is that in the general area?) which is just next to the Tenderloin.
I was going to set my "rich people" scenes in the Bay Area, but that's really far away from the Tenderloin (which is the main stage for another bit of the story).
On a totally unrelated note, isn't it frustrating that guidebooks will tell you about the best places to go for live music, but not the best place to meet vampires....? ;D Very inconsiderate, that.
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I wonder if someone could tell me how far it is from the Tenderloin area to St. Francis Wood (or is it Woods?) I've bought a couple of SF guide books and tried to find St. Francis Wood on it (there's just a place called "St. Francis Hotel"...is that in the general area?) which is just next to the Tenderloin.
I was going to set my "rich people" scenes in the Bay Area, but that's really far away from the Tenderloin (which is the main stage for another bit of the story).
On a totally unrelated note, isn't it frustrating that guidebooks will tell you about the best places to go for live music, but not the best place to meet vampires....? ;D Very inconsiderate, that.
Using the handy-dandy Google maps (which is really fun to play with) it gives an average walking distance of 4.3 miles and driving about 8. That just using one route for each method. You can enter any waypoint you want if you are interested in a specific route or whatever. I love this feature because you can use street view to make accurate descriptions of the route.
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Carrie Vaughn did an amazing job describing San Francisco in her last Kitty book.