I think the skinwalker looks pretty good. nice job ;) but i would like to make a comment that i feel the skinwalker might have another aspect like Visitor of Such Destruction or something. cause that comment he makes to harry in the book was just to amazing to not give him an aspect for it.
Kincaid has claws? :D
how would you stat the mordite mistfiend that Peabody releases in Turn Coat?
or maybe he had their True Name.
Confused, dont he need the True Name anyway? To try to summon them? Without a True Name, how can he give them a call?
The Archive is WAY out of PC power level. And a bit out of stattable power level. She's a Plot Device, and her stats in the book sound about right.
On Ivy: I don't think you're giving her enough credit, actually. I'd say she's quite a bit more powerful than that, with abilities including not taking Mental Stress from Evocation, and the ability to cast 2 Evocations a round. Stuff like that is why I'd define her as a Plot Device.
And no, there's no Refinement/Focus Item cap, but both are capped individually by your Lore.
On Glau, the Jann: I'd like to create him...but we don't see enough of him for me to really do so. He's a brilliant lawyer (according to Thomas), with Good Driving, Guns, and Weapons, as well as Inhuman Speed and maybe Inhuman Recovery. That's literally all we know.
So, we have a general skill and Refresh range thanks to the book, and know where most of the Refresh went to boot, but still, we don't have a comprehensive picture of Harry...which leaves us free to make up our own. Here's mine. It's based off of immediately post Small Favor, with notes on changes post Turn Coat and Changes.
Name: Harry Dresden
Aspects:
High Concept: Warden of the White Council
Trouble: The Temptation of Power
Other:
Epic Wiseass
I Trust My Brother
He Did the Right Thing
Mentor to Molly Carpenter
The Building Was On Fire and It Wasn’t My Fault
Skills:
Superb: Conviction, Endurance
Great: Discipline, Intimidation, Lore
Good: Alertness, Athletics, Contacts
Fair: Deceit, Guns, Investigation, Rapport, Weapons,
Average: Burglary, Fists, Performance, Presence, Scholarship, Stealth
Stunts:
Listening (See sheet) (-1)
Powers:
Refinements [-4]
Evocation [–3]
Thaumaturgy [–3]
Sponsored Magic: Soulfire [-3]
The Sight [–1]
Soulgaze [+0]
Wizard’s Constitution [+0]
Lawbreaker (First) [–1]
Total: -16 Refresh
Powers:
Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Earth, Spirit); Power (Spirit +1, Fire+2)
Thaumaturgy: Control (Divination +1); Crafting (Strength +1)
Focus Items:
Shield Bracelet [+2 Defensive Control with Spirit]
Blasting Rod [+2 Offensive Control with Fire]
Wizard’s Staff [+1 Offensive Control with Spirit]
Enchanted Items:
Force Rings+Lightning Chain [Five Weapon: 5 Attacks with Discipline] (3 Enchanted Item Slots)
Enchanted Duster [Three Strength 4 Blocks or Armor Value 2, can be worn by others] (2 Enchanted Item Slots)
1 Potion Slot
Stress:
Mental: OOOO (+1 Minor Consequence)
Physical: OOOO (+1 Minor Consequence)
Social: OOO
Armor: By spell or item effect.
Notes for Turn Coat: After Turn Coat (a Major Milestone, I think), Harry’s Fists goes to Fair, and he gains Empathy at Average. His Refresh goes up by 1, which he uncharacteristically saves.
Then comes Changes. Oh boy. By my count, Harry undergoes 3 Major Milestones in this book, maybe 4. Yes, really. First, he undergoes one by assuming the mantle of the Winter Knight, and then two more at the end (rescue and genocide, respectively). His Weapons rises to Good, and at the end so does his Fists, while his Athletics rises to Great. He also, unfortunately, gains -7 Refresh worth of powers (Unseelie Magic, Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Toughness, with the normal Winter Knight Catch) and would be reduced to NPC-dom at the end of the scenario...if other forces didn't intervene.
So there's that. Anyone with questions, comments, or their own version is welcome to post it.
Oh, yeah. The Aspects definitely change. Precisely how, I'd wait for the next book to see. I more or less assume an Aspect change or two per book. What they change to is so debatable, though, that I rarely list specifics.
If his refresh level is that High, Mab must be around 50 or 60, the Merlin is probably at 40.
Well, yeah. 8)i always like injun joe, and once you have done morgan and them, could you do ebeneezer first? (another of my fav's, next to harry, kincaid, injun joe and thomas
He beat the crap out of the Skinwalker on raw power and talent. That's...impressive. And I'll note he's still a couple of Refresh below the bastard.
i saw this on injun joe, is biomancy for healing?, i havent finished turn coat yet, so maybe he heals someone, but i aint sure
I decided to see what I would do for The Merlin's powers at a refresh level of 36, here is what I got.
I only upped the cap of his skills to 1 higher than your example of Listens to Wind, I figure that the Merlin would have access to one tier higher on the skill chart, as far as sponsored magic, he needs a way to cast wards at evocation speed.
Uh, Listens To Wind caps out at 6. Your Merlin goes to 8 and has three skills there. For comparison, the official version caps at 7 and has one.
And I don't see any reason he needs to be able to do Wards at Evocation speeds. He was in a battle between, well, armies when he did his Army-Stopping-Ward. Battles take easily long enough to pull off conventional Thaumaturgy.
hey just wanna pop in here and say you are totally doin awesome with these characters ;D and i also wanted to ask if you care if i put up my own version's of some of the characters? One of my favorite things to do is stat up characters and ive done some pretty interesting(in my opinion) write ups on lots of characters including cowl(my hero). So if you dont have a problem with it ill try to put some up here if you do thats no problem either ;D
Sure, as soon as I've finished up the Senior Council.Thanks. I couldn't ask for more. :)
qucik question, isnt veils a thaumaturgy art?
Shouldn't Molly have some points in Guns? IIRC, Harry made sure to teach her how to use a shotgun at the very least.
Name: Waldo Buttersim wondering, since harry taught him how to use a magic circle for protection how could that be represented? thaumaturgy and ritual seem over the top, but i think this should be represented by something. what do yall think?
Aspects:
High Concept: Clued-In Medical Examiner
Trouble: My Colleagues Think I’m Insane
Other:
Physician to Wizards;
Musician’s Soul;
The Dead can Speak;
By The Book? What Book?;
Polka Will Never Die!
Skills:
Great: Scholarship,
Good: Alertness, Performance, Rapport,
Fair: Athletics, Deceit, Discipline, Empathy,
Average: Conviction, Endurance, Lore, Presence,
Stunts:
Fleet of Foot (Athletics)
Medical Examiner (Scholarship)
Doctor (Forensic Medicine) (Scholarship)
Total: -1 Refresh (Pure Mortal)
Stress:
Mental: OOO
Physical: OOO
Social: OOO
Armor: 0, or 1 with Kevlar.
Here's Butters. He's a full Waist Deep Pure Mortal. At least post-Dead Beat. I'd drop him a full level to Feet Wet prior to that, and likely drop Conviction and Presence to Mediocre, along with Athletics and Discipline to Average, and Performance to Fair. He grew a lot as a person during Dead Beat, which I don't think the official stats acknowledge appropriately. Hence this. He's still not the most combative person on the block, but he's more dangerous than he looks, and a good friend to have.
Enchanted Duster [Three Strength 4 Blocks or Armor Value 2, can be worn by others] (2 Enchanted Item Slots)Wouldn't this be 3 slots?
Wouldn't this be 3 slots?
1 to make the Item
1 for extra uses
1 to make it usable by others
Nope, you can sacrifice a point of effect to make it usable by others (see p. 279). And Harry's got a Lore of 5 for Crafting purposes (due to his Specialization), so he dropped it from Block 5 to 4 and got the usable by others effect.Ah, I missed his crafting spec.
Ah, I missed his crafting spec.
Name: Molly Carpenter
Aspects:
High Concept: Wizard in Training
Trouble: Doom of Damocles
Other:
Carpenter Kid;
Harry Dresden’s Apprentice;
More Innocent Than I Look;
You Can’t Tell Me What To Do (Unless You Can);
Subtlety is its Own Power;
Skills:
Great: Discipline, Deceit,
Good: Athletics, Conviction, Lore, Rapport,
Fair: Alertness, Empathy, Endurance, Fists, Stealth,
Average: Burglary, Guns, Investigation, Presence, Scholarship,
Stunts:
Sensitive (-1)
Powers:
Evocation [–3]
Thaumaturgy [–3]
The Sight [–1]
Soulgaze [+0]
Wizard’s Constitution [+0]
Lawbreaker (Fourth) [–1]
Total: -9 Refresh
Specializations:
Evocation: Elements (Air, Water, Spirit); Power (Spirit +1),
Thaumaturgy: Complexity (Divination +1);
Focus Items:
Bracelet [+1 Defensive Control and Power with Spirit for Veil Only]
Wand [+1 Offensive Control and Power with Spirit]
Enchanted Items:
2 Potion Slots
Rotes:
Veil (5 shift Spirit Block, requires bracelet)
Quick Veil (4 shift Spirit Block)
Distracting Lights (5 shift Spirit Maneuver, requires Wand)
Stress:
Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOO
Social: OOO
Armor: 0, or by spell effect.
Here's a bit more advanced version of Molly Carpenter. By Turn Coat and Changes she's developed into a full Wizard, with some legitimately useful Evocation skills and a knack for Divination. I peg her as a full Submerged Level character at this point, and have statted her appropriately. I upped her conviction and Lore to Good, and got her a bit of Fists for emergencies. I also got her the basics of Scholarship, since I'm betting she's a high school graduate by now. I also gave her Guns, since Harry mentions instructing her in their use.
She's also pretty good with the actual use of her sex appeal by this point, and I'm betting her mundane stealth skills have gone a bit down hill as she relies on Veiling, so I upped her Rapport, got her some Presence, and lowered her Stealth slightly.
In terms of Foci, the bracelet is speculative, but makes sense, and the Wand is actually straight from Changes. Water as her third element is speculative, but also not a big deal, she uses Spirit for everything anyway.
Yeah, Luccio, captain of the Wardens, did indeed say that after Molly kinda beat her up. Think about what I just said.
Oh, don't feel the need to leave, My opinions are just that, my opinions. No condemnation is intended, I was mostly just explaining why I made my version so very different.
Also, I did mention in the 'anyone is welcome' post about accepting criticism... ;)
I'm a born editor, I can't help looking for flaws in things and then pointing them out.
Oh dont worry i dont plan to leave lol. I just have to set here and wait for something to be off with one of your characters so i can point it out :) Ofcourse judging by how your characters have looked so far i might be setting here forever... but would that really be a bad thing? ;D
Then it's mistaken, probably a holdover from the pre-revision rules. You in no way have to choose, Fred and the other folks at Evil Hat have been very clear on that.Thankies
Name: Lloyd Slate
...
The Catch is trappings of Winter [+1]
Shouldn't that be "trappings of Summer"?
Post Turn Coat and Changes I'd probably say his Conviction has gone up to Superb, his Lore to Great, and that he's gotten a level of Refinement (granting a Water Control of +2 and a protective item not unlike Harry's coat). This ups him to a 7 shift Water Evocater, though all this is highly speculative of course.
Would Carlos' Resilient self image stunt be usable for taking consequences during spellcasting? It reads like it is only intended for torture and the like.
The official version IS only useful for torture and the like, but grants two consequences. Carlos's version is general use but only grants one.Gotcha..very good - definitely suits him :)
The official version IS only useful for torture and the like, but grants two consequences. Carlos's version is general use but only grants one.
My take on the Leanansidhe:
Leanansidhe ("Lea")
High Concept: Crazed Sidhe Sorceress
Other Aspects: Inspiration for a Price
Harry Dresden's Faerie Godmother
Most Vicious Creature of Winter
Power Old as Legend
The Athame (Grave Peril-Blood Rites)
Imprisoned by Mab (Dead Beat-Turn Coat)
Reforged by Mab (Changes)
Skills:
Epic (+6): Lore, Conviction
Superb (+5): Discipline, Endurance, Presence
Great (+4): Alertness, Survival, Intimidation
Other skills default to Good.
Powers:
Blood Drinker [-1]
Evocation [-3] (Water, Air, Spirit)
Greater Glamours [-4]
Incite Emotion (Inspiration) (Lasting Emotion) [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Mythic Toughness [-6]
The Catch [+2] is cold iron and other standard fae weaknesses
Refinement [-10] (Evocation)
Control: Water +3, Air +4
Power: Water +5, Air +4, Spirit +4
Refinement [-4] (Thaumaturgy)
Control: Biomancy +4
Complexity: Biomancy +4
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
The Sight/Soulgaze [-1]
Unseelie Magic [-2]
Stress:
Physical oooo(oooooo)
Mental oooo
Social oooo
Total Refresh Cost: -40
Notes: At one point she bore a mysterious athame; this was likely an Item of Power worth around -3 refresh.
Eldest Brother Gruff killed a Denarian like it was nothing, so I kind of figure that EDG is Summers equivalent of Lea.There has to be one (an equivalent ) cause of the balance and all.
well, to speak as he does you have to be pretty old, and i assumed that since he has killed senoir council, he has to ber pretty old, and surrving in the nevernever for a long time, you jave to be powerful, and he kills trolls, if titania sent them to kill harry, she had to be sure that they could kill him, and i woulndt say between harry and titania, i would say between harry and the erlking. and yes he did kill a denarian, but he killed it well and without a scratch, kincaid killed alot yeah, but we all know kincaid is incredibly powerful, in mccoy's power level, or more, seeing as he is hundreds of years old.At least, thats my 2 cents
Oh i wasnt saying that kincaid was powerful in magic, but just in sheer Kick you a**ness. i mean, dude worked for the drakul, and mccoy is sort of afraid of him, probably because he wont challenge you to a duel like a lot of other beings, he'll just blow your head off, i just assumed to have pissed of the blackstaff, and make him fear you a tiny bit, you have to be a bamf.
And thank you for the nitpicks, lol, i am typing fast, i havent even had my daily caffine in the morning! ;D
Actually, considering he did precisely that (he held off more or less the entire Council as a whole, mostly by himself), I tend to think he DID perform a Darkhallow (possibly one on a smaller scale than that attempted in Dead Beat)...and then wrote about it. It's never stated anywhere that he didn't, and it would explain his truly absurd level of power.
Actually, considering he did precisely that (he held off more or less the entire Council as a whole, mostly by himself), I tend to think he DID perform a Darkhallow (possibly one on a smaller scale than that attempted in Dead Beat)...and then wrote about it. It's never stated anywhere that he didn't, and it would explain his truly absurd level of power.
He was a scary sonuvabitch.
Can you stat up a mod's banhammer just for kicks?
We don't know enough about the Blackstaff's powers to decide, really, but when I was fiddling with stats for Eb to replace the rather underpowered ones in Our World, I statted it as an Item of Power with Demonic Co-Pilot and Sponsored Magic – Blackstaff (provides +1 Offensive Power to law-breaking Evocations and +1 Complexity to law-breaking Thaumaturgy, user does not suffer Lawbreaker stunts.) (Demonic Co-Pilot was based on the [fairly unjustified] assumption that the Blackstaff is a sentient being itself.)
Black Court Elder: looks good. I'd give at least some BCEs some spellcasting ability, too, though.
Though those don't explain why it prevents the wielder from getting Lawbreaker, at least not IMO.
Some? Sure. But most aren't Mavra, and I think it damages her uniqueness as a villain, and how surprised even Ebenezar is by her magical capability if we give t out all willy-nilly. :)
All the Elders weren't wiped out, several are still around, atleast that is what I got from it IMO.
Dracula for sure, in the books Harry says somewhere that he is still in Eastern Europe according to there (the Councils) information.
And actually, I believe it's implied that only the elders and other vampires of exceeding cunning survived the Stoker affair...much like Mavra.
I mean, logically it would be the young and the weak who'd fare the worst in such a situation.
See, I don't see that as anything more than a reflection of his ability to channel the element impacting the item. Rules-wise, there's never any reason to use 'pure' Soulfire, nor 'pure' Hellfire (and we never see Harry doing either), so adding it as an actual thing seems wrong.
That's not my interpretation of how Sponsored Magic interacts with normal magic at all.
Later in Harry’s career, the staff is
seen assisting with Hellfire-based fire evocation,
likely adding it as an “element”.
actually looking at that again i could see it possibly being the "Fire" it added as an element. Is that how you would have ruled it?
And, while I'd need to re-read Dead Beat I actually think I disagree, I don't think we ever see it help with Fire, we see it help with Hellfire-charged Spirit Evocations for the most part, which are kinda already within it's sphere of effect.
I endeavour to please. :)
Sure. I'll whip 'em up in the next few days. Kumori and Grevane'll be pretty easy, since the book's done most of the work for me. Corpsetaker...will be a lot harder, but by no means impossible.
Name: Grevane
Aspects:
High Concept: Master Necromancer
Trouble: Hubris On An Epic Scale
Other:
Disciple of Kemmler;
Never Without My Zombies;
Dead Calm;
Skills:
Superb: Conviction, Discipline, Lore, Presence,
Great: Contacts, Intimidation, Scholarship, Weapons
Good: Alertness, Athletics, Deceit, Resources,
Fair: Burglary, Endurance, Investigation, Stealth,
Average: Driving, Empathy, Fists, Might,
Stunts:
Finely Tuned Third Eye (Lore)
Kusarigamajutsu (Weapons)
Powers:
Evocation [–3]
Thaumaturgy [–3]
The Sight [–1]
Soulgaze [–0]
Wizard’s Constitution [–0]
Sponsored Magic (Kemmlerian Necromancy) [–2]
Refinement [–6]
Lawbreaker (First) [–2]
Lawbreaker (Fifth) [–2]
Total: -21 Refresh
Specializations:
Evocation: Elements (Air, Earth, Spirit); Power (Spirit +3, Air +2), Control (Spirit +1, Air +1)
Thaumaturgy: Control (Necromancy +3*); Complexity (Necromancy +4*, Divination +1, Summoning +1)
Focus Items:
Spirit Ring (+1 Offensive Power and Control with Spirit)
Shield Ring (+1 Defensive Power and Control with Spirit)
Stress:
Mental: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Physical: OOO
Social: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Armor: By spell or item effect.
*Including the +1 from Kemmlerian Necromancy.
Grevane is terrifying, with an 11 shift offense at Weapon: 9 when he chooses to use it, and a 9 shift defense. He's also, unfortunately for him, very near helpless when not using his magic to defend.
He'll usually raise Zombies to deal with minor threats, or fold when people have the drop on him, but is exceedingly dangerous if he can contol the situation, and no slouch in a stand-up fight.
He clearly has good Contacts and decent Resources, or he wouldn't have had half the information and connecions he collected. Ditto Intimidation and Deceit.
His Trouble Aspect is nasty, and gets used on him a whole lot. It prevented his Death Curse.
Well, Harry can do almost that good, and still needs to resort to guns now and again. And, even sans his Evocation Specialties, assuming well designed Foci Grevane's only gonna drop from a 9 to an 8 shift Evocater...so, while I might do that, you're still not gonna be happy with him. I'd assume that a lot of his non-Evocation has to do with keeping his Zombies up and going, not any weakness in the area.
Well, Harry can do almost that good, and still needs to resort to guns now and again. And, even sans his Evocation Specialties, assuming well designed Foci Grevane's only gonna drop from a 9 to an 8 shift Evocater...so, while I might do that, you're still not gonna be happy with him. I'd assume that a lot of his non-Evocation has to do with keeping his Zombies up and going, not any weakness in the area.
I wouldn't give him any Evocation Foci, either. I just don't see the evidence that he uses it enough to want them.
(And I'd only give him -1 on Lawbreaker (First), too, as while he kills a lot of people I imagine he'd mostly do it by ordering his minions to kill them, not with his own magic.)
Then how does Binder avoid being chopped to bits by the Wardens ??
Ordering summoned creatures (which is technically what zombies are) to kill breaks the First Law. This is stated rather explicitly in Storm Front, when discussing Victor Sells use of a a demon assassin, if I remember correctly.
Thaumaturgy foci are fairly pointless, and he clearly lacks useful Enchanted Items...so my options for what to give him are a bit limited.
Ordering summoned creatures (which is technically what zombies are) to kill breaks the First Law. This is stated rather explicitly in Storm Front, when discussing Victor Sells use of a a demon assassin, if I remember correctly.
How I'd probably actually handle it in play is to have all his offensive Evocations channeled through a zombie, as he supercharges one of his minions and has it attack. No mechanical difference of course, just very thematic.
Then why isn't Binder a warlock? he obviously kills folks with his minions.
harry comments he knows the laws enough to skirt them without actually breaking any, hence the reason the wardens havent killed him.That much is quite obvious... The main question being HOW he skirts them.
That much is quite obvious... The main question being HOW he skirts them.
We know he sends summoned creatures to kill people. He does so quite openly.
If Sending summoned creatures to kill someone breaks the laws, how is he getting around them?
I got the impression he had a legitimately 'friendly' relationship with them, it's possible he doesn't even Bind them (his name notwithstanding), just Summons them and then ells them to go kill folk mundanely.
yeah, harry seemed to think they were part of a hive mind. Say he bargained with the hive mind to be able to call up and issue orders to some of its pieces that they will follow to the best of the hive's ability?
That's the impression I always got, yeah.
That much is quite obvious... The main question being HOW he skirts them.
We know he sends summoned creatures to kill people. He does so quite openly.
If Sending summoned creatures to kill someone breaks the laws, how is he getting around them?
Hey deadman I'm not sure if you have read the new short story Even Hand involving marcone and just incase you havent i wont spoil anything but i think it calls for some alterations on his aspects. (Though only one major-ish one)
1. I thought her focus on extremely small items (ie: jewelry) warranted it, and she had this free specialty slot lying around...
If you have other plans, just remember to modify her shield ring accordingly and go for it.
2. Awesome! Thanks, I'll edit him momentarily.
Consider this; with a defense of +6, armor 3 and 12 physical stress boxes, even a small army would have trouble harming it if its catch isn't the same as the vampire catch. It is Mayan so the catch may be obsidian instead of silver or holy stuff. And in every exchange it would rip one common red-court infected to shreds. Add blood-drinker so it can heal up during the fight if it drinks blood and it's really bad-ass.
Besides, mythic recovery doesn't make it any more unkillable during a fight.
That'll result in something fairly accurate. I agree that (at the very least) we are unaware of it's Catch, so either apply one of your choice, or force the PCs to deal without ((though the latter is likely to be quite hard on the PCs).
It has stress of OOOOOO(OOOOOO).
It has 2 mild, 1 moderate, 1 serious consequence (since it is supposed to be major opponent), plus 2 milds from recovery.
It has +5 defense and armor 3.
Maybe if a caster with power 8 and control 9 burns her/his 4th mental box and 4th physical box, 2 mild mentals, 3 fate points and 2 sponsor debt to pull off a freaking Weapon 19, control +15 megablast and rolls well, she/he might take it out in one blow. But other than that, it will be a bitch to take down.
one shotting things isn't really supposed to be SOP lol. Thomas and mouse didn't have much of a problem with it. In fact it ran from them and was still crippled later. I think it might be a tad too powerful, either that or mouse and thomas's write ups were on the weak side (especially mouse).
We actually know for a fact that Mouse's was too weak in a variety of ways (he's a full Foo dog, not a hybrid), but even the hybrid version has a poor man's Sword of the Cross in it's ability to automatically satisfy something's Catch...a factor that more than explains the Ick's damaged state, particularly if you add in my contention that Mouse clearly has Inhuman Strength.
Name: Thomas Raith
Aspects:
High Concept: Fallen Prince of the Raith Family
Trouble: Fighting My Inner Demon
Other:
Loyal To My Brother
Justine Is My True Love
Lara, My Sister, My Rival
Toe-moss
Make Like An Action Movie
Skills:
Superb: Deceit,
Great: Guns, Investigation, Weapons,
Good: Athletics, Discipline, Endurance, Presence, Resources
Fair: Alertness, Conviction, Driving, Fists, Intimidation,
Average: Empathy, Lore, Rapport, Stealth, Scholarship,
Stunts:
Sex Appeal (Rapport) (-1)
Takes One to Know One (Deceit) (-1)
Wall of Death (Weapons) (-1)
Powers:
Emotional Vampire [–1]
Human Guise [+0]
Incite Emotion (Lust; At Range, Lasting Emotion) [–3]
Feeding Dependency [+1] affecting the following powers:
Inhuman Strength [–2]
Supernatural Speed [–4]
Inhuman Recovery [–2]
The Catch [+0] is True Love.
Total: -14 Refresh
Stress:
Mental: OOO
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOOO
Hunger: OOOO
Armor: None.
Reasons For Changes:
Well, aside from him being more on-par with Harry now.
Thomas is specifically mentioned as making Inhuman Speed creatures look like extras in an action movie he was so fast (actually, Harry brings up action movie analogies a lot in regards to Thomas, hence the Aspect). That’s Supernatural Speed right there.
The Ghoul fight in White Night demonstrated some serious Weapons skill…hence the Stunt.
He can absolutely spot a liar, has a modicum of social skill outside of lying (not a lot, but a little), and needs no powers to seduce women.
And he’s too pretty and arrogant for Average Presence.
He also has his own salon, and a nice apartment, and a boat, so his Resources must be decent.
He can pull off the whole wisecracking/enemy making (a part of Intimidation), if not as well as Harry can, at least a bit.
I have a very hard time imagining him less well educated than Harry.
This is Thomas immediately post Small Favor.
Post Turn Coat and Changes: Clearly some Aspect changes, as well as a few Skill increases (possibly including Discipline...reflecting him being better fed these days). His powers don't seem to have changed, though.
Ghost Story is out, which means that some characters need an upgrade.Given some of his actions in GS, I'd give Mort the
Behold Mort, now 20% more badass.
Aspects look great.
Skills are pretty good, although I would probably give him a bit of Intimidation and maybe some Presence. Some of his lower skills are probably just guesswork, so there's room for change.
As for stunts:
Just about the only information we have about Daniel's specific skills is that he's been trained to fight against supernaturally fast opponents.
As such, I suggest stunts giving +2 to Athletics dodge and +1 to Weapons attack against opponents with Speed powers.
vultur did his version today, so maybe it was aimed at you. I don't know.
OK done deal. I was curious about something,would the Alpha's healing abilities in Aftermath count as requiring a feeding dependency,as they stated it requires a lot of energy to perform.
Makes sense
Anyone notice Thomas onl has a +1 Rapport?
Seems very low.
I actually would think that the Warden thing would be important enough to make it to his HC. Something along the lines of WARDEN AND WINTER KNIGHT. Since you have to be a wizard to be the Warden.
Uh...I just read Cold Days and am in a Dresden-y mood again. Also, this forum has slowed down enough I don't feel I'll be overwhelmed keeping up with it...so I'm back. And will almost certainly be updating, well, everyone involved (basically, Harry*, Thomas, Murphy, Molly, Mouse, and maybe Butters...well, and Fix, Lily, and Maeve) for both Ghost Story and Cold Days. Though it may take a bit of time...
So, yeah, triumphant return and all that. Or something. Seemed like a good place for it anyway. Homey.
*Though I'm not gonna worry about Harry's ghost stats in terms of powers. I'm inclined to think those were mostly "You can spend FP and do appropriate things!" and very little else anyway.
Welcome back!
Since you're here, I can thank you for getting me into this whole DFRPG forum thing. IIRC I originally signed up because I wanted to comment on your animal thread.
That aside, I think Harry should at least have Spirit Form for when he's a ghost. But canon Spirit Form doesn't model ghosts all that well, so lemme show you the rewrite that we came up with to fix that. It's kinda long, since it's supposed to cover a whole bunch of different types of spirit at once.
As for the item slot thing, you can probably just ditch some Refinements or have them give Specializations. Dropping Powers like that may or may not be possible by the RAW, but Harry's got a good excuse.
You might also be able to get rid of Listening or Lawbreaker. YS mentions that redeeming a Lawbreaker might be possible. And Listening isn't really important to Harry's character.
Then again, my local bookstore is going out of business so I haven't read Cold Days yet. Maybe I'm missing something important.
That looks workable. And yeah, he was clearly incorporeal...it's just all his other powers that seemed fiat-based to some degree.
Declarations are good for that. They basically run off of "that sounds reasonable".
But if you want to make the Declarations with a skill, you need a stunt or Power adding that trapping to the skill.
And we do want to make the Declarations with a skill (probably Conviction) because it's narratively appropriate for willpower to dictate how well the ghost mojo works and because most ghosts (including Harry) won't have the FP to do many Declarations without a skill.
But that's what Powers are for. Representing the abilities that you get from the type of being you are. All Vampires are inhumanly strong, so they all have Strength Powers. All ghost-like-things can make willpower-based Declarations, so they all have a Power or Stunt that lets them do that.
I'm pretty sure Harry was still capable of casting spells in GS, it's just that his incorporeal nature made his spells pretty useless.
Harry's trouble, at least in CD, is more like "the predator within" than "the temptation of power." He's already given into that temptation, now he has to deal with the fallout.
Hmmmm. Maybe. I personally tend to think that's just how his sponsor debt manifests now (and sincehe's operating sans foci, he's racking up quite a bit of that)...but I can see your argument. On another level, though, that's just more of the same, isn't it? Giving into winter is the Temptation of Power.
Okay, so your players' characters all get sucked into a very malleable dream realm. It's a function of that realm that anyone who's can use Discipline to make changes to it, making declarations. Would you charge all of them a power for this? I wouldn't, since everyone can do it in that realm. It's a function of the realm and not the character.
Not the same scenario at all. Harry's in the normal universe. He's just intangible. The various shenanigans come from being intangible.
And intangibility is definitely a Power, it's right there in YS.
He is the White Council's premiere healer, and also has multiple degrees in modern medicine. He returns to medical school every decade or two to stay current with modern practise.
Oh, good. :)
Murphy uses her Fantastic Fists for every weapon we've actually seen her use due to her Armed Arts stunt. Check it out if you like.
As for that, 17 seems a little over the top (though only a little). I built Morgan with only 16 (assuming he's down to Refresh 1) and 52 skill points. I'm inclined to think I undersold him a bit, looking at him (I may go back and tack on one more level of Refinement, now that I think about it...ditto Luccio) and he may have a Refresh of more than 1...but still, at 17, you're looking at a legitimate peer...so that's around right, especially if he has a few less skills.
Far be it for me to question someone clearly vastly better with the character creation system than I wil ever be, but I could buy that if it was just her being good using weapons, with aptitude transfering from unarmed combat muscle reflex and experience, but she was teaching them, which requires more technical expertise. Just my opinion of course.
46 in skills, so less than your interpretation of Morgan for sure. Thanks for the feedback.
On Morgan: TC says Eb is one of the only wizards expected to be able to take him down, so I'd figure he's much stronger, not that far short of the Senior Council (25+ Refresh maybe).
Can you do a write up of Cold Days level Toot-Toot , as the little guy clearly shows he's terrifying once he's taking on something in his own weight-class.
We've never seen either of those two cut loose...so what are you basing that opinion on? I mean, Listens-to-Wind never demonstrated being badass as hell before kicking Shagnasty's ass, what makes you think they aren't similarly terrifying when angered?
- Eb was supposed to be one of the only wizards that could beat Morgan, which doesn't sound like every member of the Senior Council could do it.
Mai, probably (Jim said she's not really combat oriented) but just barely (Senior Council). Liberty I'd put equal (since she specializes in divination, per WoJ), but not below (since Jim hasn't quantified her for combat stuff like he did Mai, and again, Senior Council).
- I'm pretty sure that Mai at least is by WoJ not much for Evocation/combat.
- Eb was supposed to be one of the only wizards that could beat Morgan, which doesn't sound like every member of the Senior Council could do it.
Also what does Gatekeeper's Supernatural Sense [-2] do? (It's not listed)
Quibbles aside, I really like these stats...
Plenty of the wizards there have got precious little gift when it comes to actual combat magic--like Ancient Mai.
What kind of magic does Martha Liberty specialize in?
Thaumaturgy, specifically information-gathering. She’s got legions of contacts in the Nevernever and the mortal world alike.
Harry does not have Morgan's experience or expertise in a fight. It doesn't mean that Harry isn't also an effective and dangerous opponent, but he has a completely different approach--and he generally has a lot more to learn, still, before he is as formidable as someone like Morgan.
Granted, Ebenezar makes /Morgan/ look like Harry.
Where exactly is that said? Because I'm not finding it in a quick skim of Turn Coat. I remember him being badass and almost taking out the red King...but nothing about how only Ebenezar could take him out.
Awesome work as always Dead.
One question as a relative n00b using the system compared to you, and it is about "pyramids". I was given to understand that to get a +3 in a specialization, you had to "build" on a foundation of a +2, which in turn had to have a +1 somewhere as well. Same goes for Thaumaturgy specializations if there are other specializations available in that category (crafting specs being an obvious exception).
Am I wrong here?
Listens-to-Wind is the Council foremost example of a water Mage per WoJ and the entropy magic he used against Shagnasty.
No, you're right (aside from Crafting specialties being an exception. They aren't.). But it's one pyramid each for Evocation and Thaumaturgy, not separate ones for control and Power or Control and Complexity.
If there's anywhere I haven't done that it's an error on my part.
That explains it - thanks.
In general, I'm not against Self-Sponsored Magic or something like it (Kemmlerian Necromancy is basically this)...but I think adding it to the Senior council is premature. We haven't ever seen them use it, and (based on some stuff Jim Butcher said) I'm not at all sure most of them don't have some sort of actual sponsored magic...so I'm withholding judgement until we know.
On the PS: Keep reading. I note changes without necessarily removing previous notes. It's at the bottom why I switched her element.
On the PPS: I don't necessarily agree, at least on Initiative. And his defensive item's pretty good...though I suppose it could be better. Alright, upgraded item will occur momentarily.
EDIT: And there, vastly beefed up defensive item. which, IMO, make initiative unnecessary to some degree.
You already gave the Gatekeeper most of Superior Worldwalking. And Listens-To-Wind has used biomancy-as-evocation on screen. And Luccio's Warden Sword-making clearly involves something like this, mechanically speaking.
So at least some of the Senior Council clearly has these abilities or something similar. Maybe also real Sponsored Magic, they're not incompatible.
I see. My apologies. Is she really a diviner?
A big item does help with the initiative thing. But going first is still extremely powerful when wizards fight each other.
True, but that assumes he's fighting fair. Man's an assassin after all...
Luccio's sword-making follows all the standard item creation rules as far as I can see (especially my revised version of her stats and the swords), and Listens-to-Wind has shown the ability to shapeshift during combat...which is a bit different from Evocation-speed Biomancy in general. And I already gave him a power for that. Ditto the Gatekeeper and Worldwalking.
True...I'm just leery of giving them too much stuff that might be completely wrong in kind as well as details and magnitude. Call it an aesthetic preference.
True, but that assumes he's fighting fair. Man's an assassin after all...
The Warden Sword has two Powers, instead of one. Not normally possible.
Also, if Luccio does not have some kind of special ability than anybody could make a Warden sword. Which is not so.
Also it lets you use somebody else's Lore + strength specializations, which may or may not be possible normally. But for some reason it doesn't give you access to Luccio's frequency specializations. Unless the idea is that Luccio has Lore 6 and no specializations are carried over when the sword is given out? Hard to say.
Superior Worldwalking was created specifically because Worldwalker is not generally suitable for spellcasters (it says so in Your Story).
And if you can do extremely complex and powerful biomancy fast enough to have True Shapeshifting, I bet you can do minor biomancy even faster.
Fair enough. But if Superior Worldwalking is wrong for Rashid then his writeup is already in error.
And Luccio and LtW have unusual abilities that demand some sort of representation.
And a brawler. He ought to be able to kill you any which way.
Well, sorta true. IMO, any item can be multiple 'items' built into a single physical housing (as long as the item's size isn't exceeded by the total number of item slots...I'm all for encouraging PCs to put more eggs in one basket)...but the normal version does indeed have that either/or thing. My version of Luccio, however can make a Warden's Sword at two Item Slots with each of those two abilities entirely separate and usable at Strength 6 3/session...bringing it back in line with the standard rules on items. At least as I'd interpret them.
She's a really good Crafter. End explanation of specific ability.
I strongly disagree that that's impossible. Anyone can make a magic item only usable by themselves at no cost break, or items usable to anyoneat only a slight reduction in effectiveness. Luccio makes items usable by one specific person who happens not to be her (but who must still adopt the item to make use of it). I see no reason why that's not a trick anyone can do given they can do the other two...most Wizards simply don't bother (it uses up some Item slots of yours for a while and takes time and effort).
That's not quite what it says. It says spellcasters don't usually need this ability...but spellcasters don't usually need, say, Glamour either (they can Veil without it, after all). Doesn't mean they can't take it, or have uses for it. And all of its abilities (especially the +2 on Lore and Survival) seem spot on for Rashid (and Harry once he's got the gem from his mother). I'm much more comfortable giving them this than something homebrewed (and not notably more useful).
...
Not necessarily. He has an existing power that there's no reason he can't have. Superior Worldwalking is another theoretical way to do the same thing...but I prefer to stick to the book when it's a choice between two appropriate things, one from the book and one not.
An interesting speculation, but not one necessarily borne out. Changing yourself is a lot easier and more intuitive than changing others (as people like the Alphas demonstrate)...meaning that self-shifting (which we know he does quick) does not necessarily equate to ability to pull off tricks effecting others with the same speed.
I feel that 12 shift evocations plus whatever the Blackstaff does cover this.
The standard rules say you get 3 uses for both abilities together. Not 3 for each.
Strength 6 Frequency 3 is doable at Feet In The Water. So why is Luccio the only Crafter who can make that specific item?
I said it may or may not be possible. The rules don't really make it clear how item lending is meant to work.
There are serious balance issues with lending items once somebody makes a Strength 10 Crafter, though.
It offends my aesthetic sense to see somebody take a Power when they have no actual use for it's primary effect, especially when the Power was specifically not designed for them.
I considered putting that +2 bonus in Superior Worldwalking, maybe I still should.
The Alphas trained for a long-ass time. They don't demonstrate much here.
They don't. Doesn't matter how hard your punches are if the fight ends before you can throw one.
As long he's got his item he can probably tough out an initial attack, unless his opponent is another powerful wizard in which case he could get splattered before acting once.
And of course foes with Speed can just run. A 7 zone sprint will get you out of sight range, barring unusual circumstances.
Because, as mentioned in the books, each Wizard is unique and so is their magic. That kind of crafting is decently rare, and everyone who does it does it a different way from Luccio, so while they might make items of equivalent power, they aren't actually the same thing.
True...but 'brawler' and 'automatic first on initiative' don't necessarily have a lot in common.
Not really, with two uses he's got a 12 shift Block and Armor 6. Assuming Eldest Brother Gruff is sucker punching him with a 14 shift effect that's a 10 stress physical hit. Which he'll take a Consequence or two from, but definitely survive. And...there's really nobody more hardcore than that to sucker punch him.
True. But attacking a specialist in killing people with Thaumaturgy and running is this little thing called suicide.
So you're saying that Harry could make something exactly like a Warden Sword mechanically (with less strength), but it wouldn't be called a Warden Sword.
Sure they do.
Have you ever been in a fight? Being quick is a huge deal.
One of my PCs hits harder than that.
And EBG would definitely not throw out a base-power attack against Eb. He'll take consequences and spend debt/FP to hit as hard as he can. Eb can't boost his item with FP.
Naw, it's pretty survivable if you don't leave any blood, etc, behind and he doesn't know where you live.
True, but it's far from the whole of the fight. And 'brawler' at least to me, says things like 'guy can hit like a Mack truck, and take a hit' more than it says 'quick on the draw'.
that's fine by me. I've been re-reading his fight scenes and was curious on your opinion of whether he merits supernatural or merely inhuman strength.
You have powerful PCs then.
11 shift tracking spells done casually make that second part a very temporary state of affairs indeed.
EDIT: And there, Ebenezar's Initiative is now stratospheric (if still less than, say, Kincaid's).
PS: I read CD recently. I'm thinking Harry might have some kind of limitation Power on his physical abilities, since he has to call upon Winter to get them. He might have Supernatural Strength so that he can bench 400kg.
A higher Might skill would let Harry bench 400kg with Inhuman Strength, no question about it.
But you have him at Average Might, and I figured it'd be easier to increase the Power than the skill.
As for Sith, I think he found it easy to take them away because he'd already half killed them with his claws.
Harry's lifting Might is Great now. That's not superhuman. It's pretty strong, sure, but your average weightlifter can probably lift more.
Given that Harry is clearly supposed to be superhumanly good at lifting now, that seems inappropriate.
Not sure why silent snatch-grabs would require vast physical force.
PS: I read CD recently. I'm thinking Harry might have some kind of limitation Power on his physical abilities, since he has to call upon Winter to get them. He might have Supernatural Strength so that he can bench 400kg.Maybe Human Guise or Human Form? Given how he gets odd looks when he really uses his power, it seems to me that his form changes somewhat (even if it's only being cloaked in ice), like the bit in the warehouse, when he punches Sharkface, etc.
Maybe Human Guise or Human Form? Given how he gets odd looks when he really uses his power, it seems to me that his form changes somewhat (even if it's only being cloaked in ice), like the bit in the warehouse, when he punches Sharkface, etc.
Just to help: Harry should be spending one of his refinements on getting access to Water evocations before Turn Coat, because it is in that book where we see him use a water evocation for the first time (against Demonreach during the sanctum invokation).Eh, that whole thing was basically one big thaumaturgy spell, not an evocation.
Eh, that whole thing was basically one big thaumaturgy spell, not an evocation.
I think the Common Ritual trapping of Lore is more suited to Thomas than the Ritual Power, personally.
A Power is supposed to be a meaningful part of your character concept. Spellcasting isn't, for Thomas.
Thomas doesn't know how to do rituals. He knows how to do a "Find Harry" spell. Yes, his knowledge is that specific, as he describes it. That's not worth two refresh, for something we've seen him do all of once, and had to be thoroughly coached not to completely bollocks it up.
In the Our World (near Capriocorpus' official entry), Bob says that even contemplating the mechanism of Capriocorpus' body stealing treads on 7th Law territory... Shouldn't she have Lawbreaker 7th [-2] to reflect that?
Notes: Endurance and Might vary wildly by body. Her current one in Dead Beat had Average Endurance and Mediocre Might. They're the only skills that so vary (well, and maybe Resources if it's higher than hers).
She uses Thaumaturgy-as-Evocation to make 11 shift mental attacks, possibly taking Sponsor Debt to pay the Mental Stress Costs, and the Taking Out effect being a body swap.
Too easy, I think. Swapping bodies should be harder than just killing or knocking unconscious, because otherwise consensual body-swaps are like cake for anyone with Thaumaturgy.
Since the game is a work of fiction...I think the question is not "are they" but "should they be".
And I don't think they should be, because they're a major effect with significant plot consequences. Easy body-swapping seems like a recipe for wacky-ass nonsense.
She should have Mimic Abilities if she can mimic the abilities of her host. Two points ought to be plenty.
That might also explain how she could pass for an anthropology professor...since the body includes the brain, it would make sense for her to be able to access the memories of her victims.
Too easy, I think. Swapping bodies should be harder than just killing or knocking unconscious, because otherwise consensual body-swaps are like cake for anyone with Thaumaturgy.
Can you do the Nightmare from Grave Peril? Despite it being used as an example for Mimic Abilities in YS, the actual stats in OW mysteriously lack Mimic Abilities.
Also they give Kravos 6 Refinements, which is way excessive considering he was a less skilled spellcaster than Harry, who probably has 1 at this point.
(I'd do it myself but don't have a 'resource' place to put it where it'll stay visible - like this thread.)
Can we get an updated version of Lily and a build of Gard if possible?. I think the axe she used in Even Hand is a pretty neat enchanted item for her to have.
When taking someone out via Thaumaturgy as a means of transforming them, you can shift their skills around.
Doing body-swaps on Supernaturals is a trickier issue...possibly impossible (or impossible without losing your magic, which is what I'd go with), or Capirocorpus likely would've been walking around in some sort of superhuman monster, not a young human girl. Indeed, given the difficulties Luccio underwent post-body swap (Extreme Consequence or not), I'd argue that in order not to lose both Evocation and Thaumaturgy as soon as you have the body both participants need to be human, and the victim must have Thaumaturgy and Evocation, or at least Channeling and Ritual (ie: magical potential). Anything else the magical potentials screw you the hell up. Meaning it's only really a viable option on Wizards or those with the potential to be Wizards. So, much like the drumming with zombies, various in-world limitations built into the whole thing, not necessarily it being anything other than bog-standard Thaumaturgy rules-wise.
Not that I doubt you, but can I have a reference?
Maybe shifting into a supernatural is either flat-out impossible, since they don't even have a soul for you to swap with?
Alternatively, maybe you lose your free will if you do so. that is to say, you no longer count as mortal.
Also, your requirements for magical potential seem far too strict, based upon the comments the Corpsetaker made in Ghost Story, but that's always going to be a GM ruling anayway.
Seems to me there's actually a difference between "mortal" and "has free will", but oh well.
When taking someone out via Thaumaturgy as a means of transforming them, you can shift their skills around. I see no reason this wouldn't apply to yourself as well, and it's clearly what she was doing.
I don't think so. She gave no indication of keeping memories or any such thing.
Would you argue that Biomancy couldn't swap two people's appearances perfectly?
Doing body-swaps on Supernaturals is a trickier issue...possibly impossible (or impossible without losing your magic, which is what I'd go with), or Capirocorpus likely would've been walking around in some sort of superhuman monster, not a young human girl.
I dunno whether that's possible, but if it is the extra effect should certainly cost extra.
We've seen very little of her. So that's not too meaningful.
I would argue that it couldn't swap to people's appearances perfectly for 3 shifts.
What you're doing here would allow 3-shift body-swaps.
If you're giving yourself Powers through body-snatching, you need to pay for those Powers. That ought to cover the necessary difficulty difference.
Yeah, I'm cool with that. Well, I'm cool with 4-5 shifts for it, anyway, which is gonna be more common. Actually, thinking on it, 6-7 or maybe 8-10 depending on how you rule doing it to two people. 5's the real absolute minimum (3+Zone). It's really not that useful an effect, all things considered. It lets you look different...and that's it.
That works for PCs who wish to keep free will. It doesn't explain why already negative Refresh people like the Corpsetaker won't do it.
Looking like other people, with a built-in limitation, is a 2 Refresh Power. It's a reasonably big deal.
And for what it's worth, transformations normally require enough shifts to fill a consequence slot that's roughly equal in magnitude to the effect. This is clearly an Extreme-level effect, so I think you should add 8 to the required take-out margin. More if the victim has other consequences to resist with.
Sorry, that was poorly explained.
I meant she'd have to pay the ritual shifts that'd be needed to grant permission to buy those Powers permanently. Which is probably quite a lot.
There isn't much in the way of real rules for buying Powers, but it's clear that Grevane or whoever can't just buy 100 Refinements. Even if it wouldn't meaningfully effect his Refresh total.
You need some kind of narrative permission to buy Powers. Like a big ritual that changes your nature fundamentally, or lots of hard training.
I was suggesting that the costs of a "permission to buy Powers" ritual ought to be included in the cost of snatching a Powered body. Not for balance reasons, just because it shapes the setting in a good way.
Wasn't it mentioned he didn't usually feed on lust anymore?
Mostly? In calling up the uber-ghouls. Unlike, say, Thomas, he has no good reason to be associated with the Deeps, and opening portals to the Nevernever wherever you like is either spell-work or worldwalker, and as it's an Outsider powered ability magic seemed more likely. Harry also refers to his mind-mojo as a spell, and while that's not quite how I statted it, it seems a worthwhile thing to acknowledge. Also, he referred to Cowl as 'Master' which implies an apprenticeship of some sort, and if not in magic, in what?
It can definitely be argued he lacked it, but I think there's decent support for the idea of him having it. OW also gives him magic, and while I disagree with the stats in there in their particulars, they're still a pretty good source in many ways.
I always thought he could call up the ghouls only because of Cowl, that is to say, Cowl gave him an enchanted item or something that let him open portals. And as ofr the relationship, Vittorio may have meant about how Cowl is higher in the heirachy of the Circle than him.
Also, in the DV, everything supernatural is technically a spell. Magic is magic is magic.
Could you do an updated version of Martin and Susan, when you get around to re-reading Changes?. If Vitto gets Deep Cover Agent then Martin definitely should.
That version gives you +4 to Deceit to impersonate them, too. A bonus that big on almost any activity is worth at least one Refresh. This one very likely wouldn't grant any such bonus. Well, it might, but only if you poured more power yet into it, as the shifts of effect would seem likely to replace any such roll.
A 4 shift effect can also conjure a sword, which is possibly Weapon 3 and better than the Claws power, too. And Glamours is pretty much all easily duplicated with pretty low-level rituals...or easily surpassed by higher level ones (and can sub-in for Mimic Form sans +4 bonus as well, now that I think on it). Thaumaturgy being potentially better than particular powers when used properly is nothing new.
EDIT: Another way to think of this is as using Thaumaturgy as a skill replacement for disguise, with shifts equalling out to the difficulty to spot the fakery. Forcing it on someone's harder than that, but that's really all that's meaningfully going on here. It's a bit more permanent than most such effects...but that's as much of a disadvantage as advantage in many ways.
Or require taking out the people in question. That does explicitly work, too.
The most complex spells outright kill people, leave them permanently insane, or transform them forever. There require enough shifts to bypass the resisting skill and all levels of consequence, including extreme. Victor Sells' killing spell needs 32 shifts to do the job...
Hmmm. That'd probably work...but it's still a little shaky as an in-world justification...
Pretty sure the +4 is just supposed to be the situational bonus for looking exactly the same. I dunno how I'd feel about a ritual that duplicated appearance perfectly without that sort of bonus.
A ritual is better than a single use of Glamours. The point of Glamours is that you can use it freely.
Claws, incidentally, is really only useful for when you're not prepared for a fight or bad at Weapons. In both of those cases conjuring (or buying) a sword doesn't work.
Except that's not how you defined the effect. If that's the effect you want, use a different shift calculation. And pay for the duration, because permanency is definitely an advantage.
Actually, lemme quote the book:
I take this to mean that you actually have to bypass all levels of consequence. Not just the levels of consequence that the victim has available.
It could be interpreted differently, but I don't think it should be. These spells are supposed to be a big deal. They shouldn't be easy.
What?
Harry goes on and on about how difficult and dangerous it is to make yourself stronger temporarily. Why would making yourself stronger permanently be easier?
Fate...doesn't so much have situational bonuses per se.
That's a really iffy interpretation that I disagree with completely. Killing someone who's almost dead is easier than someone completely healthy, and there's no reason doing it with Thaumaturgy would change that.
But it almost doesn't matter for purposes of Corpsetaker, since what she does is via Thaumaturgy-as-Evocation, which can surely kill or transform in a more normal combat sense via multiple attacks or the whole point of using it as Evocation is lost and fails to make sense.
It has some. Read Hairpin Maestro, Cloak Of Shadows, and any Speed Power.
Killing someone whose reputation has been destroyed without their knowledge is also easier than killing someone with a solid reputation.
Consequences aren't just vitality. They're a form of plot armour.
When Harry sees the heart-explodey spell's results he is shocked and awed. Why would he have been, if killing spells can be cast for 3 shifts?
Also, your interpretation would also allow people to just not defend or take consequences against transformations. So all transformations can be cast at base complexity, no problem.
Evothaum works the same way normal Thaumaturgy does. It doesn't get around normal limitations, except insofar as it is faster and less risky.
And yes, that makes it pretty pointless to use in combat time unless you can call up a load of shifts. That's not rare, for evothaum.
Corpsetaker's trick just isn't easily doable with the set of canon Powers. It's written the way it's written in OW for a reason.
Sure, a few, but they're usually called out as such.
They are. But not when they're full. Not for anything. Why would Thaumaturgy be different? That's a serious question, BTW.
Because even nameless people have all their Consequences to resist Thaumaturgy?
Or, to look at it another way: Your heart exploding like that will kill anyonemeaning it needs to have enough shifts to do that, regardless of how many were actually necessary in this case. If it'd been something someone tough or lucky could survive (like an inflicted heart attack) Harry would've been less impressed even with the same victims dead, and it might've been a lower shift effect.
Only willing ones. That's hardly all.
So, uh, how does Lea turn people into hounds, then, by your interpretation? I'm curious.
Completely ignoring the debate here: do you think that you could stat up Lea? I know the book says unstattable, but most interpretations put our favorite psycho faerie death lady at just above Winter Lady level. Do you think she's stattable?
Actually, you often have to infer their existence from the existence of things that negate them.
Because transforming someone with Thaumaturgy isn't actually an attack, it just simulates attack mechanics for the purpose of determining how complex an effect is.
What? Why would you assume that?
Hang on a minute, weren't you just proposing all take-out-based effects be equally hard to cast?
Sorry, misspoke there. The general point stands.
She can cast with enough shifts. Or she has some kind of custom Power.
No. She is second only to Mab herself in power. She's beyond stats. Individual things she does can be statted (like the dog thing), but as a whole? Not really, no. She's probably on par with the Senior Council in magic and has excessive amounts of other powers for being a Faerie. When you get to the -60 Refresh level and stats all at Great at a minimum, you're pretty much beyond stats.
Why do you think her skills are all Great+? I don't see why she should have impressive Endurance, Might, or Fists for example, and Harry tricks her in GP (the ghost dust thing) so even her social skills probably aren't universally high.
Killing two Lords of Outer Night was really impressive, but she might have taken a ton of sponsor debt on that one... really, I think a lot of that "indulge yourself" stuff in Changes might have been sponsor debt based.
I suppose, but this isn't one of those.
I disagree. It can kill or inflict Consequences, that makes it an attack. What other criteria are there for something being an attack?
Just always have. Why would you assume the spell rules break all the other game rules in this area?
Uh...no, not really. You seem to be the one doing that (saying you always need 32 shifts regardless of circumstances). Taking someone out is enormously variable based on their current condition, willingness, and how good their defenses are. Something that can take anyone out no matter how good all that stuff is? Like that spell? Scary.
Not really. Willingness really should matter in how easy it is to perform magic on someone.
Both of the "look exactly like somebody" Powers do that. So the inference that looking exactly like somebody ought to include a +4 disguise bonus seems a reasonable inference to me.
Attacks can't inflict consequences. People take consequences in order to avoid being taken out by attacks.
When you attack, you declare what you want to happen to your victim and if they aren't willing able to spend enough stress/consequences to stop your attack then that thing happens.
Thaumaturgy spells that calculate their complexity by the conflict method don't work like that. If you want to inflict a mild-consequence-level injury to me, I can't stop you by taking a consequence other than the one you want.
Thaumaturgy is its own thing, about halfway between an attack and a consequential contest.
They don't break any rules. They have their own rules. That's my reading, any-hoo.
Not necessarily 32. And I'd charge extra for take-out results that exceed normal limitations.
But you're saying that turning somebody into a dog and giving them a heart attack should have the same complexity. So why should blowing someone's heart up and giving them a heart attack have different complexities?
Not what I meant. I meant the issue is that supposedly-impressive magic can be performed for fun by extremely weak spellcasters.
They talk about how difficulty it is to get the biology right when transforming people in the books. Why would you let people ignore all that difficulty?
I could have sworn Luccio had a blasting rod in Small Favor, right after Micheal kills the last of the Hobs
She has a small, slender staff. It's in Dead Beat too.
I don't think there's really been any indication of what bonuses it might give though.
And my second explanation makes just as much sense. As does the meta explanation that he didn't know how many Consequences those people had and just assumed the worst, an assumption confirmed by his later research.
I'm saying that a Wizard examining a magical crime scene can tell how much power would be needed to do X, at least roughly. You might be able to explode a heart with less, but it'd look significantly different than that version.
I wouldn't. That's what Compels are for, and I'd very seriously compel them not to even try that as it's too dangerous. That said, it's not actually magical difficulty, it's a difficulty in having a precise enough understanding of biology. I.e. a high Scholarship score. Hell, the Alphas learn to do it after (it's implied) only a few months of training with no grounding in magical ability whatsoever. And do it pretty much perfectly and at-will.
I don't think I said that. Quote tag error?
That's reasonable, I suppose.
The Alphas spent months training to learn one spell with an expert as a teacher. That's quite a lot of effort for 5 complexity.
Non-magical difficulty of a magical spell is generally represented with (mundane-skill-based) Declarations.
If you find yourself using Compels to block a usage of the rules, that usage is probably bad. Compels are supposed to come from Aspects, but your proposed Compels don't.
I think you're right, but it's on your end, check your previous post.
Sure...but this appears to be just a matter of mundane skill, and of merely having it, not necessarily using it successfully. There's not really a mechanic for that in-game...it's sorta a different thing from the normal way things work. All biomancy (and pretty much biomancy specifically) is, per Harry's description.
I'd allow it if they forsook the Compel.
And using any 'Wizard' type Aspect to compel not breaking the Laws or doing reckless things with magic is pretty legitimate. Ditto compelling anyone with any High Concept involving being something less than a Wizard doing just about anything complex with magic ('You're only a Sorcerer, Wizards are scared of that, are you sure you're ready?'). And if your High Concept doesn't include either of those...it probably doesn't include spellcasting, does it? I guess if you had it anyway I wouldn't compel you...but that seems unlikely.
You're right. Fixed.
I seem to be making a lot of minor errors at the moment, I just posted a Power without a Refresh cost.
That's normal for Thaumaturgy. Conjuration has almost exactly the same issue. I don't see much reason to make special rules.
You're still deciding on a Compel without even seeing the character's Aspects. That ain't good, it's like deciding on the conclusion of your research before finishing the experiment.
Also, papering over problems with Compels remains unwise regardless.
Oh my God level? Are you sure that's how you want to refer to the champions of hell?
Question: should Spinyboy be lower Refresh than Tessa? I know he'd have more Refinements, but Tessa is referred to be second only to DJ Nicky D himself, so she should probably have a refresh second only to his. Probably with Supernatural instead of Inhuman stuff.
Also, Magog should not really have those scholarship stunts. He's big dumb and stupid.
Harry didn't take Linguist when he had Lash in his head. I'd just call speaking languages an invocation of the various "Fallen in my head" aspects with Hell sponsor debt instead of an actual stunt.
Can we get an updated version of Lily and a build of Gard if possible?. I think the axe she used in Even Hand is a pretty neat enchanted item for her to have.
Shouldn't that be trappings of Winter?
And should she really have Superb Resources? She's probably real rich, sure, but we've never seen her use money for anything.
I'd put the one aspect as "Manipulative and Manipulated". She's more notable for how she's been played than for how she's played others.
She played Harry in Proven Guilty. Not Small Favor.
The occultist stunt is redundant with a trapping of the Tattoos of St. Giles which does the same thing.
Ok. Gotcha on Susan.
Martin was quiet about it... The way most truly dangerous people are. Makes me wonder what the hell Mac is.
I'd possibly give Susan Martial Arts, as Harry mentions her performing Tai Chi katas in Death Masks and that she probably knew the bone breaking locks and throws Tai Chi is capable of doing.
Can you do a build for Ariana?
I always got the impression that he was, actually (immune that is). Or the swords would have frightened him more.
Can you do a build for Ariana?
Shiro's been adventuring for a long time. Also, how much refresh does Shiro have left over?
Well, Harry says something in SmF about Nic having nightmares about the Swords (when he offers Nic Fidelacchius) and Nic seems to react as if Harry were right.
In any case, if he is, he needs some Power to reflect that... as written, the Swords can still kill him.
Due to her Armed Arts Stunt, she'd be only one down point wise... But she wouldn't have all those sword stunts, so.
Oh. Ya. Forgot about the giving up +2 thing.
He's afraid of the swords continuing to mess up his plans, not of them killing him. At least, in that scene.
Well, Harry talks about him being afraid of them "turning him into one more discarded Dixie cup for the Fallen," so Harry at least seems to think they can kill him.
Name: Sigrun GardI'm honestly not seeing the logic for a lot of this. What we've seen of Gard, she doesn't really take more of a beating than others. Where are you getting that the axe is a block or armor? I didn't get the sense she was using any magic against the Grendelkin. I'd put the regeneration back up--she recovers from a full disemboweling after, what, a day or so? Just because she doesn't regenerate in battle doesn't mean anything--we've only ever seen her wounded twice, both of those probably Severe consequences (broken arm and disemboweling). Remember that the in-combat regeneration only applies to mild consequences.
Aspects:
High Concept: Honest-to-Odin Valkyrie
Trouble: On Marcone's Payroll
Other:
Runecaster and Scryer;
Icy Beauty;
Descendent of Beowulf;
Respect For Professionalism;
The Art of Paranoia;
Skills:
Superb: Conviction, Endurance, Lore, Weapons,
Great: Athletics, Burglary, Discipline, Guns,
Good: Driving, Empathy, Fists, Presence, Survival,
Fair: Alertness, Intimidate, Might, Scholarship, Stealth,
Everything else defaults to Average.
Stunts:
Paranoid? Probably (Alertness) (-1)
The Big Picture (Burglary) (-1)
Pilot (Helicopter) (Driving) (-1)
Linguist (Scholarship) (-1)
Berserker (Weapons) (-1)
Powers:
Refinements [-2]
Sponsored Magic: Rune Magic [-2]
Strange Senses [-2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is unknown [+0]
Total: -17 Refresh
Enchanted Items:
Rune Covered Axe [8 shift Block or Armor Value 4, 5/session] (6 Enchanted Item Slots)
6 'potion' slots
Stress:
Mental: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Physical: OOOO(OO) (+1 Mild Consequence)
Social: OOOO
Armor: 1, or by spell or item effect.
Gard's Sponsored Magic effects only Thaumaturgy. She has no abilities at Evocation whatsoever, making use of Enchanted Items and pre-set rituals instead. The abilities of which were countered by the Grendelkin's magic-immunity in Heorot, for reference. It's possible the axe only works to block magic, in which case she'd get a compel for facing physical attacks which ignore it (it cost her more than a full point of Refresh after all).
She's also really hard to kill, supernaturally strong, and dangerous in a fight (Weapon 6 attacks at Fantastic are nothing to sneeze at). It's possible (no, likely) that she has a Catch of +2 or so reducing her Refresh that we simply haven't seen come up yet.
I dropped her Recovery because, while she'll eventually heal from anything, she didn't seem to have real in-combat regeneration. And gave her Toughness because she seemed to deserve it.
I'm honestly not seeing the logic for a lot of this. What we've seen of Gard, she doesn't really take more of a beating than others.
Where are you getting that the axe is a block or armor?
I didn't get the sense she was using any magic against the Grendelkin.
I'd put the regeneration back up--she recovers from a full disemboweling after, what, a day or so?
Just because she doesn't regenerate in battle doesn't mean anything--we've only ever seen her wounded twice, both of those probably Severe consequences (broken arm and disemboweling). Remember that the in-combat regeneration only applies to mild consequences.
All in all, honestly, I don't think your changes are very accurate to what we've seen of the character at all.
Oh, and Rune Magic is listed as -4 refresh, not -2.
Also, what exactly does Sigrun supernaturally sense?
She seems to have the same kind of complete immunity to pain Harry's gotten as Winter Knight. I stat that as Inhuman Toughness, as it seems the closest power to model that sort of effect.Where? Is it when she cries out in pain after the Grendelkin breaks her arm and is then defenseless for the rest of that story? Or is it when she's clearly in too much pain to do much when her guts are hanging out?
Have you read Even Hand? If not, read it, if so, re-read it. This is exactly what the axe does in that story in her final confrontation with the Fomor lord. You could argue it counterspells instead...but that doesn't match the way the fight went nearly as well.I haven't, so fair enough. I posit, though, that the axe in Heorot was not the same axe as the one in Even Hand, since she loses that first axe.
She doesn't, knowing it's immune, which was sorta my point. Which was that that fight said little or nothing about her magical capabilities.I don't think she knew at all that it was immune--you'd think during that whole information session thing before the fight, she might have mentioned that to Harry.
Ghouls (our basic Supernatural Recovery example) recover from being disemboweled quicker than that. A day's about right for Inhuman Recovery plus Severe Consequences anyway, due to the way it works, Supernatural would result in her recovering in a single scene after receiving the wound (so she would've been better after the first scene we saw her in)...it took longer than that. Inhuman results in it being healed in a session, which sounds about right.They recover that quickly after treatment. Remember that Harry first finds her while she's still treating herself, and getting her out of the house only aggravates her injury--she probably didn't start healing at all until she got to the Carpenters and had her wound sealed up. By the next day or so, she's on her feet. Remember that a "scene" is a fluid thing--it could mean an hour, but it could also mean the next day.
True...but even on such consequences there's usually talk of the wound knitting together or some such. There isn't with Gard.Where are you getting this from? We don't really see anything regenerating right in the middle of a fight like that, short of the Uber Ghouls, which are noted as being an exception for being able to do that, and the White King, who's also supposed to be somewhat above and beyond normal.
That assumes an ability to use Evocation, which, since she's never used it, I'm assuming she can't. The version here is sponsored Thaumaturgy/Ritual alone, which makes it -2.I suggest you take another look at the Sponsored Magic list. I helped to write the current version of Rune Magic, which is still -4 and does account for the lack of Evocation.
Where? Is it when she cries out in pain after the Grendelkin breaks her arm and is then defenseless for the rest of that story? Or is it when she's clearly in too much pain to do much when her guts are hanging out?
I haven't, so fair enough. I posit, though, that the axe in Heorot was not the same axe as the one in Even Hand, since she loses that first axe.
I don't think she knew at all that it was immune--you'd think during that whole information session thing before the fight, she might have mentioned that to Harry.
Also, why does Harry then speculate that the axe, as an enchanted and runic weapon, is specifically what the Grendelkin's catch might be? She wounds it so it's clearly bleeding--meaning that she must have done a solid 14 shifts of damage if it wasn't a catch to it. So either she rolled as high as she possibly could while the Grendelkin rolled low, or it did indeed have an effect on its own Toughness power. And, again, the axe used there was not the same axe as in Even Hand.
They recover that quickly after treatment. Remember that Harry first finds her while she's still treating herself, and getting her out of the house only aggravates her injury--she probably didn't start healing at all until she got to the Carpenters and had her wound sealed up. By the next day or so, she's on her feet. Remember that a "scene" is a fluid thing--it could mean an hour, but it could also mean the next day.
Where are you getting this from? We don't really see anything regenerating right in the middle of a fight like that, short of the Uber Ghouls, which are noted as being an exception for being able to do that, and the White King, who's also supposed to be somewhat above and beyond normal.
Again, we only ever see Gard get wounded in such ways that she needs some kind of outside treatment--a broken arm with the bone sticking out, and her intestines spilling out, neither of which can really just regenerate.
I suggest you take another look at the Sponsored Magic list. I helped to write the current version of Rune Magic, which is still -4 and does account for the lack of Evocation.
When she's actually fighting? Yeah, she can feel it, but it doesn't seem to actually impair her. Damage impairs her (like an inability to use a broken arm effectively), but pain? Not so much. Again, see Even Hand for examples.That could easily be reflected by her having the No Pain, No Gain stunt in addition to her extra mild consequence. I'm not sure how it works as Inhuman Toughness, which is more of a resistance to damage in the first place.
Very possible. I'm...not sure how this is a criticism (given it's a current, ie: post-Heorot build), but very possible.I meant it as in that's why she didn't use those enchantments during Heorot--it was a different axe, with different enchantments.
Immune to her magic and immune to Harry's are different things, she could easily know the first but assume it had to do with them being related and not realize it'd apply to Harry as well.Eh. Harry speculates that it's the exact opposite, I'm more inclined to believe him. If Gard thought it was immune to any magic, again, I think that's something she would have mentioned to Harry when he convinces her to tell him what's going on.
Uh...Inhuman or better Recovery definitionally needs no such treatment to begin healing, which throws all that out the damn window, timeline-wise. But maybe I'll throw that in as her Catch and up her back to Supernatural. That would make some sense, I suppose...I'll have to check the rulebook again--but I'm inclined to say that the wounds aren't going to heal if they're not able to heal. A bone sticking out of skin has to be set right; intestines aren't going to pull themselves back in. That only makes sense.
We see Ghouls do it occasionally (on the rare occasions Harry doesn't kill them outright, see the boat fight in White Night for examples)...and they're the only Supernatural Recovery baddies we run into regularly. Which is the same level of Recovery the White King is listed with, btw.Ghouls are, again, typically seen as exceptional in how they can heal, or at least that's how I read it. I'll give you the White King, though there are ways I've come up with that his feeding dependency and emotion eating let him dodge or tank those attacks and the healing was just flavor.
I don't use homebrew stuff (other than relatively minimal amounts of my own) in this thread. Simpler and more generally usable that way, I think.Chopping two refresh off of a canon power isn't "minimal." There's no write-up for Rune Magic, so you can't really say that evocation has any part in why it's priced that way, because you don't know why it's priced that way.
That could easily be reflected by her having the No Pain, No Gain stunt in addition to her extra mild consequence. I'm not sure how it works as Inhuman Toughness, which is more of a resistance to damage in the first place.
I meant it as in that's why she didn't use those enchantments during Heorot--it was a different axe, with different enchantments.
Eh. Harry speculates that it's the exact opposite, I'm more inclined to believe him. If Gard thought it was immune to any magic, again, I think that's something she would have mentioned to Harry when he convinces her to tell him what's going on.
I'll have to check the rulebook again--but I'm inclined to say that the wounds aren't going to heal if they're not able to heal. A bone sticking out of skin has to be set right; intestines aren't going to pull themselves back in. That only makes sense.
Ghouls are, again, typically seen as exceptional in how they can heal, or at least that's how I read it. I'll give you the White King, though there are ways I've come up with that his feeding dependency and emotion eating let him dodge or tank those attacks and the healing was just flavor.
Chopping two refresh off of a canon power isn't "minimal." There's no write-up for Rune Magic, so you can't really say that evocation has any part in why it's priced that way, because you don't know why it's priced that way.
I think Inhuman Toughness is a better fit for what we see her do and survive.Eh, I disagree.
Most supernaturals can just pop the bone back in or pile the guts back in casually and heal fine, seems to be the theme. Her needing actual medical attention is an exception, not the rule, for those with impossible recovery speeds.Most supernaturals we see aren't human--it's heavily implied that Ms. Gard is/was. I think that's what makes the difference, that she's a human who got these powers put on her, rather than being a creature that was born to them.
They're considered exceptional because they have Supernatural Recovery. Most stuff has to make do with Inhuman.
It's bog-standard Sponsored Magic, man, with the same cost as every other kind, which all include Evocation. Assuming it doesn't include Evocation is the big deviation from the book. As is writing up a detailed version of it, since we have no idea how accurate that would be.How can you say it's "bog-standard" with the same considerations as all the others while when there is no write-up for it? How can you say what each refresh point accounts for when there is no write up for what each refresh point--or any of them--accounts for?
There is no such thing as canonical Rune Magic.You know what I mean. They priced it for Gard at -4, and would have had a reason to do that.
Eh, I disagree.
Most supernaturals we see aren't human--it's heavily implied that Ms. Gard is/was. I think that's what makes the difference, that she's a human who got these powers put on her, rather than being a creature that was born to them.
How can you say it's "bog-standard" with the same considerations as all the others while when there is no write-up for it? How can you say what each refresh point accounts for when there is no write up for what each refresh point--or any of them--accounts for?
If the canon version of Rune Magic--whatever it is--is worth -4 refresh, how can you possibly say that you can chop off -2 refresh while keeping its capabilities the same?
Does it then cost only -1 refresh if someone with Thaumaturgy takes it?
I'm not sure they put any thought into it, really. That's the default cost, so maybe they just wrote it down without thinking.
I was more addressing DMW's desire not to use homebrew. Even if he wants to stick with canonical Rune Magic, he can't because canonical Rune Magic is not a real thing.
All that all said, if I'm not allowed to think I can stat out characters better than them...about 70% of this thread stops having a point. It's sorta the point of the thread, y'know? Statting out characters in what I believe is a more accurate fashion is basically this thread's mission statement.I was under the impression that this thread was about updating the characters more than changing them outright.
I was under the impression that this thread was about updating the characters more than changing them outright.
Because I have no response for it, because I'm conceding the point. I still think you're mistaken for lopping off the refresh cost, but there's no reason to continue the discussion further.
It seems like she does get some of her runes from the 'home office' though, and it certainly seems she can do things other than crafting (wards, divinations, the bullet-thing in Even Hand, etc.)...which would tend to indicate either Sponsored Magic/Ritual or, alternately, full Thaumaturgy. I'm currently leaning towards changing it to the latter, actually...
I was thinking a lot of her effects (rune of Routine, lightning blast, bullet*...) were basically 'potions' in mechanical terms, in the same way Harry's "sunshine handkerchief" is a 'potion', but full Thaumaturgy is quite possibly better.
*OK, that one's awfully powerful, but it kind of looks like it's boosted by an Aspect achieved by a Resources (or some skill...) declaration to find the appropriate bullet....
I agree! Note her six potion slots. :)
But her wards (which messed Bob up pretty bad),
I think I'm being talked into Thaumaturgy with a Crafting specialization, here
It seemed to me like an orchestrated death ritual in bullet form, or something close to that anyway.
Could be... especially given that it knocked Gard out to make it. Wonder how that would work, mechanically?That's part of what we tried to work into the homebrew version of Runecrafting--it's essentially Thaumaturgy letting you 'store' a given spell in a rune like a potion (with each turn of the casting process being one item slot). So in that case, it was basically a big thaumaturgic ritual that Gard had to take Backlash on to cast, and let herself be physically Taken Out.
I'd actually drop Gard's Divination Complexity in favor of something else. In Heorot, Harry is able to track the Grendelkin even though it threw Gard off. Right now, you have Harry doing 4-Shift Divinations without prep around Small Favor. You have Gard doing five.
That's part of what we tried to work into the homebrew version of Runecrafting--it's essentially Thaumaturgy letting you 'store' a given spell in a rune like a potion (with each turn of the casting process being one item slot). So in that case, it was basically a big thaumaturgic ritual that Gard had to take Backlash on to cast, and let herself be physically Taken Out.
The other Denarians are (effectively) nameless thugs with Great skills in combat (and Intimidation and Lore) and Inhuman to Supernatural physical stuff plus a Creature Feature or two. They're frightening, but not really in need of full sheets per se.
On that note, I think you made Magog too fast. Supernatural Speed is really something.
I also would have made him dumber, but since we never see him think much onscreen it's hard to know what's right there.
Possible? Certainly. Going to happen? As soon as I re-read Ghost Story...which may be a little while, since I got distracted from the Dresden Files by other stuff. I'll get back to it and stat him sometime soon-ish.Bob, I presume, has Lore ridiculously high and a handful of stunts that let him do a lot of stuff with it.
Is it possible to stat Bob?
I'm pretty sure Sanctaphrax did, after GS, using a bunch of custom powers - but I sure can't find it, even by searching.
Bob, I presume, has Lore ridiculously high and a handful of stunts that let him do a lot of stuff with it.
But generally speaking, I have to agree with the book--Bob's more of a plot device than a character.
PS: If you're having trouble searching a thread, hit Print Thread and use Control-F. It works much better than the forum search.
No. Corpsetaker is a ghost. Not a human.
I believe it was mentioned that the Turtlenecks are no longer human.
I could be wrong, I haven't read Ghost Story in a while.
Not in Ghost Story. Or Even Hand. Or Aftermath. I've read all those recently and all refer to them rather explicitly as human. Modified, sure, but still human.I think it's more telling what isn't said--Harry, for instance, doesn't so much as bat an eye when he helps Molly incinerate one. You'd think if there was the suspicion that they still counted as human, Harry would've said something.
One, I group them in the same group as Blampires and Rampires-no longer human, though they used to be.
Two, Harry would have to violate the 1st Law THREE times before it becomes -2.
I think it's more telling what isn't said--Harry, for instance, doesn't so much as bat an eye when he helps Molly incinerate one. You'd think if there was the suspicion that they still counted as human, Harry would've said something.
It's arguable...but we're getting way too many edge cases, he doesn't seem overly worried about doing such things any more, and he's got the free Refresh, so it seems the right time to go with that -2. Hell, since ritual sacrifice counts it's debatable the thing with Lloyd Slate in Changes qualified. Or the thing with Susan (though her inhumanity probably counts that one out).Eh, I don't see Slate counting--it wasn't really part of a spell, leastwise not one that Harry was casting.
Eh, I don't see Slate counting--it wasn't really part of a spell, leastwise not one that Harry was casting.
I was a little disappointed with the redcap. I figured he'd have something nifty gimmick other than the standard faerie package, but yeah, come down to it he was a bag of hot air.
I kind of expected a "Blood of my enemies/victims makes me stronger." type deal. Especially if he got the cap dipped in it. Maybe I read the d&d monster manuals too many times though.
I was a little disappointed with the redcap. I figured he'd have something nifty gimmick other than the standard faerie package, but yeah, come down to it he was a bag of hot air.Eh, I think Harry hit it right on the head: The Redcap is an ambush predator, a scavenger. He isn't big and tough and strong enough to take on anything that would give him a real fight, so he targets travelers who are alone and tired.
Nah, I figure if he had then it would have come up, and he got capped, didn't he?
No, actually. One of the few parts of that particular book where I went "No, you idiot!" at Harry, but the Redcap was alive at the end of everything and Harry didn't put the effort in to finish his ass off. I would've killed everyone involved in the kidnapping bit just on general principles...but then I'm vindictive as hell.I think Harry is desperately clinging to his humanity at the moment. While part of him likely wanted to, I think that would make it harder to resist the mantle.
I think Harry is desperately clinging to his humanity at the moment. While part of him likely wanted to, I think that would make it harder to resist the mantle.
I doubt you can work magic while engaged in mental combat. Both are very mentally intensive and you really can't afford to be distracted while doing them.
True, I suppose.
But his Discipline seems low. He works complicated Ectomancy (see Dead Beat: Harry needs Little Chicago to do that), and it doesn't backfire.
I'd give Morty some kind of channeling or evothaum.
The wraith pit, I'd say. Possibly forcing his will upon Harry's spirit (the car, exorcising him)
I'd peg that as more flavor than anything. The kind of thing that's represented by him making, say, a Conviction maneuver that he tags for effect.
Evothaum's certainly reasonable...but I'm not throwing on what amounts to a custom power based on being able to help Harry not fall out of a car, which appears to be the only real example available.
This is the way I saw it too.
By the way, giving Mort Mimic Points is pretty cool.
So when Mort Mimiced Harry, he took Evocation and... What?
So what do you think he did with the +1 Refresh he got after sending Capriocorpus on that southbound train?
Ok. So here's a question for you. If Mort takes up Channeling later, and then he Mimics a wizard's ghost for Evocation, does he pay three Mimic Points or one?
For someone who took out a Kemmlerite, Mort seems a little underwhelming. Can't put my finger on exactly why.
Corpsetaker wasn't just a Kemmlerite, but a Kemmlerite ghost, and that's what he has power over. Additionally, he took her down with unexpected Thaumaturgy when she was already at least somewhat worn down. Unexpected Thaumaturgical attacks are nasty and will screw just about anybody.
True. But Council Level seems to imply some speedy stuff. At least Evothaum (or is it chantial, here?)
True. But here's a big problem. Mort can't do high level rituals without them backfiring in his face. The odds say he can control it most of the time per roll, but assuming you're seven times for a seven shift ritual (the max Mort can do without declarations), gets it off without backlash only 65% of the time. And Mort doesn't have a lot of FP to chuck around to avoid that.
But Mort has been noted to do some really complicated Thaumaturgy without loosing control (to give you an idea, for the Map thing he pulled in Dead Beat, our GM said an equivalent ritual for the Warden in our group to pull off would require 13 shifts). I'd actually swap his Discipline with his Investigation-since he really focuses on his ghosts to investigate stuff) and split his Seance table into a +1 for control and complexity.
How would you stat up Sir Stu?. I'd imagine he's pretty powerful as Lea spoke rather highly of him...almost like a schoolgirl with a crush or something. ;D
I know that. But the more complexity you have, the more chance you have to fail. Assuming Mort does one shift at a time, he fails that ritual about 3 times in 5. And he didn't have time for both tags to reroll and to pull off that ritual. Harry had walked in about 2 seconds (well, minutes) earlier.
...
LEA/SIR STU
OTP
Modular Abilities really only allows for Creature Features and occasionally some other things. I'd be wary of letting you potentially get Refinements with it.
I assume you're talking about variable abilities?
I'm not incredibly fond of it. A lot of the Custom Powers list is great, and some of it ....isn't.
...I remain deeply concerned about the potential abuses of being able to shuffle your Refinements at will, which is something that build would allow.
It doesn't actually let you do that. Or at least, it's not meant to.
But because of a writing mistake, you need to look at the examples to get any indication of that.
Incidentally, said examples contain a Listens-To-Wind imitation Power.
If you have any critiques/suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing them over on one of the custom Power threads.
Anyway, Deadman, what's your take on Arianna?
Arianna's writeup would be kind of dry. She's a gishy evoker, probably on Harry or even Morgan's level, possibly with a couple of Experience powers or an absurd number of skill points if she's prehistoric.
But yeah for someone who's supposed to be the equivalent of Eb for the Red Court,
But yeah for someone who's supposed to be the equivalent of Eb for the Red Court, his build seems a little bit unimpressive. Plus I was also surprised he didn't have a least a few Scholarship or Deceit Stunts.Ortega is equivalent of Ebenezer in his duties, not in his power.
Thanks for noticing, I was a bit of rush when I finished up this morning. Incite Confusion does seem more appropriate as Harry mentioned that Esmeralda could have Bart seeing anything she wanted. I decided to give them the strength boost off of the Red Court Noble Template, despite ya know, not being nobility as their aspect will attest to. I could remove Supernatural Speed to offset it.
Do you think the whole "hide in the shadow of their flesh mask" would be an aspect or just an advanced usage of the regular Flesh Mask power?.
Also would it be much of a stretch to assume they have some ability with summoning rituals , as I always felt it was implied they summoned the Ick themselves.
They COULD have the Supernatural powers, I just don't think they necessarily need them, I see them as more skill/contacts/stealth/etc. than raw power.
I had assumed they just got it through their Red Court contacts as a "Red Court hunting/war animal" (probably transporting it through the NN, though) rather than using a summoning spell, but...
How would one handle Rashid'smechanically? Is it part of Transportation which seems possible, or is there an hereto unspecified specialty of Thaumaturgy relating to this?(click to show/hide)
I'm of the opinion that she seems underpowered (though not by much: I just think she should be able to throw down with Eldest Gruff).
I dunno about Muse's Gift. Couldn't she get the same result just by rolling a Performance maneuver without a stunt?
I'm thinking maybe she could give artists the ability to take Sponsor Debt for art rolls.
Name: Nicodemus Archleone
Aspects:
High Concept: First Among the Denarians
Trouble: Pride Goeth Before Everything
Other:
Anduriel’s Host;
Been around for a Long, Long Year;
That soul which has the greatest Punishment;
Try Not My Patience;
I rejoice over the corpses of Knights
Skills:
Fantastic: Contacts, Lore, Weapons,
Superb: Conviction, Deceit, Presence, Resources,
Great: Alertness, Athletics, Discipline, Fists,
Everything else defaults to Good.
Stunts:
Takes One To Know One (Deceit) (-1)
Filthy Lucre (Resources) (-1)
Linguist (Scholarship) (-1)
Riposte (Weapons) (-1)
Powers:
Marked By Power [-1]
Refinement [-8]
Evocation [-3]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
Sponsored Magic: Hellfire [-2]
Wings [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
The Catch is holy stuff [+2]
Item of Power (Barrabas Noose) [+1] effecting;
Physical Immunity [-8]
The Catch is the Noose Itself [+2]
Refinement [-3] (+3 Control and Complexity for Entropomancy)
Total: -38 Refresh
Specializations:
Evocation: Elements (Earth, Water, Spirit); Power (Spirit +2), Control (Spirit+3, Water +1)
Thaumaturgy: Control (Summoning and Binding +1, Entropomancy +3, Transformation and Disruption +1); Complexity (Summoning and Binding +4, Entropomancy +6, Transportation and Worldwalking +2, Transformation and Disruption +5)
Focus Items:
Barrabas Noose [+4 Complexity with Entropomancy]
Stress:
Mental: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Physical: OOOO(OO)
Social: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Armor: Infinite, 1, or by spell or item effect.
Nicodemus's mystical abilities are assumed. He's never actually demonstrated any per se. But then, he hardly needs to in combat, and someone did the heavy lifting on the curse the Shroud was supposed to enable. My interpretation is that it was Nick. I made him only decent at Evocation to explain why he doesn't use it too much, though personally I tend to think his shadow attacking people is his own version of that. Still, it's not that effective in the grand scheme compared to some other Denarians' magic, so crappy at Evocations he is (relatively speaking).
The noose has a +2 Catch solely for availability, since it's definitionally available to anyone who wants to use it.The Entropomancy Refinements are to enable the Barrabas curse (it'd probably give someone sans Thaumaturgy Ritual - Entropomancy and one Refinement, staying the same level of focus Item), and he curses with flare with that thing (16 shifts off the top of his head...never mind if he puts some effort in).
The physical defensive stuff is assumed since the noose makes them irrelevant in many ways.
I'll probably be statting up Tessa, Rosanna, Thorned Namshiel, Deirdre and Magog as well. I'll also think about doing Saluriel and Ursiel. The other Denarians are (effectively) nameless thugs with Great skills in combat (and Intimidation and Lore) and Inhuman to Supernatural physical stuff plus a Creature Feature or two. They're frightening, but not really in need of full sheets per se. Well, ignoring Lasciel anyway...and her we've never seen in action so her stats are highly speculative.
Hey, long time no see.
Any plans to make some post-Skin-Game character sheets?
I may do some generic sheets as well, the Fomor and their minions didn't look quite right in terms of skills (and will feature heavily in my upcoming game), so I revised them, which is sort of inspiring me to do more stat revisions (or, in many cases more like clarifications) for generic foes like random Ghoul thugs or White Court Vampires and the like. I mean, this thread already has one generic stat block, I could throw in a handful more, and I don't imagine it would be more than a handful or two...
Well, we finally have a new book, with (PT Spoiler).(click to show/hide)
If anyone is still here, does that have implications for his stats?
And what does Harry as Winter Knight look like now that he's had a chance to re-build some gear?