I wouldn't over think it.:o Isn't that mostly what we do here?
:o Isn't that mostly what we do here?
But my broader contention is why is that the first vanilla mortal to get on the Accords (Marcone) just happens to be in Chicago, conveniently the same city as Harry? Why has no one succeeded in getting on the Accords before a Chicago Mobster? ...
... Why is it the Fomor's main base under Lake Michigan? ...That is the base of "King Corb." Presumably, he's outranked by "the Empress" (I'm now presuming she is also "the last Titan" of DF#17-BG), and I'm guessing HER court is in the ocean (Tethys looking AWFUL likely here).
Someone with enough foresight might, for example, arrange to be in a position to assist a hotheaded young wizard of the White Council one day. Perhaps who I am is directly responsible for why I am here.Harry signs for Marcone. Vadderung signs because Marcone has a relationship with Marcone because of Harry. Lara signs because Marcone saved her bacon because of Harry. Marcone is on the Accords because of Harry. No coincidence.
I don't think Thomas likes the idea of fathering a vamp child. I think he also fears becoming his father, Lord Raith. Not that it is in his nature to be, but the key thing he said was most vampires are sterile.
“Yes,” Thomas said. “And my kind are all but infertile to boot. Happened anyway.”
Unless there is some Biological Limitation on the White courts reproduction. Which is my personal theory, because otherwise there would be a lot more of them.
"All but infertile" is not the same thing as "most vampires are sterile". It just means they have children rarely given how often they, um, hook up. But keep at it long enough, like over centuries of time, and the number of kids can add up. In this case, Thomas and Justine just got lucky. Or unlucky, as they might see it.
Yet, their numbers are very low, so probably most are sterile, the few that are not, become dominant.
It might also explain why Lord Raith's wives weren't vamps, perhaps two vamps cannot reproduce. Also we know for example that a male donkey and a female horse can have a baby, it is called a mule.. Mules are sterile..
If that is the way with White Court Vamps, it is understandable why Thomas would believe he is sterile, thus thinking it safe to have sex without protection..
I scowled. “I mean, weren’t you careful?”
“Yes,” Thomas said. “And my kind are all but infertile to boot. Happened anyway."
Thomas never believed he was sterile. Just "all but infertile", per the text. Also, they did take precautions:
Pure conjecture. We don't know that.
Which means he thought his chance of making babies was slim to none.. It may seem odd to those who haven't had fertility problems, but conceiving a baby isn't all that easy. They didn't take that many precautions, if they had Justine wouldn't be pregnant.. But when you believe you are sterile, the precautions would be half hearted because, "why bother?"Unless the results of pregnancy were a 50/50 chance of dying.
I am confused. I seem to remember that Thomas already told Harry of Justine's pregnancy before. Where have I read that?
And in the chapter he hears it for the first time. I thought he already knew. Weird.
Unless the results of pregnancy were a 50/50 chance of dying.
That's been know for years, since the first Chapter was a giveaway, way back when.
If Thomas took precautions he was smarter than Harry. :)
Yet, their numbers are very low, so probably most are sterile, the few that are not, become dominant.
They didn't take that many precautions, if they had Justine wouldn't be pregnant.
In art as in real life, that doesn't always stop it from happening. If I remember correctly Justine has always had some emotional issues that the White Court thing actually helped. Anyway, it could be because she loves Thomas so much she wants to give him a child no matter the risks to her own health and the baby being born with a demon/parasite inside of it.The text says they were careful. Justine is pregnant. I'll need a little more before I entertain the conclusion that they weren't careful.
If you use condoms perfectly every single time you have sex, they're 98% effective at preventing pregnancy. But people aren't perfect, so in real life condoms are about 85% effective — that means about 15 out of 100 people who use condoms as their only birth control method will get pregnant each year.
But no method or combination of methods is guaranteed to be 100 percent effective. The only guaranteed way to not get pregnant is by not having vaginal intercourse.Planned Parenthood.
For perfect use of the male condom and pill, that’s 0.02 x 0.003 = 0.00006, or 0.006%. In other words, the combined method is over 99.99% effective when used perfectly.https://www.mathscareers.org.uk/article/statistically-safe-sex/ (https://www.mathscareers.org.uk/article/statistically-safe-sex/).
@g33k: I believe Raith has more than four daughters. It's just that we've only ever seen three on screen and identified as such at one time.
How many sisters does Thomas have?
I can’t find that notebook, grr. I think it’s nine. Papa Raith’s bodyguards minus one who is utterly bonkers and kept more or less in the attic, and Inari, the one who got away.
I'm not making any more jokes.
For the record Harry and his friends live in a deterministic universe. The chances of Thomas having a baby are whatever Jim says they are. In this case the chances were 100 percent...
Papa Raith fathered Lara & her two sisters, Thomas and some number (do we HAVE a number? Let's guess 2-4...) of brothers, and Inari. Let's call it 7-10 children, all told, across the centuries.
Mira, this time I agree with the others, the text says that Thomas took precautions, so I don't see any reason not to believe him.
In that situation and due to STD it is more than probable than Thomas is effectively using condoms everytime, as it is the best shield for STD transmission.
“Microorganisms aren’t a problem to my kind,” Thomas said. “As long as I don’t bleed out, I’ll be fine.”
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 286). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
While he may have been using condoms, it wasn't for fear of STDs. White Court vamps aren't really vulnerable to them:
While he may have been using condoms, it wasn't for fear of STDs. White Court vamps aren't really vulnerable to them:
I mean, if Thomas said they took precaution we don't have any reason to believe he is lying, so it is more probable that it is true. Perhaps Justine lied to him, but in any case, he tried to take care, so at least he thought on that. Anyway, there are many differences with Harry's case. Harry was somehow until the influence of rampire spit and it was a "hot of the moment" thing, while Thomas and Justine are an stable couple that have a lot of sex on a regular basis, so of course they had time to thought about babies and making plans. But that is not all. IIRC due to the need to break the True Love thing and be able to have sex with each other they need to have sex with other partners. In that situation and due to STD it is more than probable than Thomas is effectively using condoms everytime, as it is the best shield for STD transmission.I agree, but if he were, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant. I just looked it up, apparently there is a one in fourteen chance of failure with condoms. That whole paragraph is kind of weird though. On what did Thomas base his notion that he was basically sterile? If he believed that, other than fear of STD transmission why use a condom every time? I still think that was the original bases for Lord Raith's power, he could reproduce where the rest couldn't. Thinking back though the series, the White Court seemed to consist of families, and they were all related some how and rather small in number. Remember the gathering where Toot's friends were enslaved and used as living lamps and Harry freed them? If I remember correctly it was a gathering of all the clans and it only amounted to a hundred or so. Lara hires vanilla humans as her muscle and guards, why when given their power and strength White Court Vamps would be much more effective. Unless there aren't enough of them to do that.
If I remember correctly it was a gathering of all the clans and it only amounted to a hundred or so.
“It’s one of the greater Houses of the White Court,” I said, nodding. “Raith, Skavis, and Malvora are the big three.”
Butcher, Jim. White Night (The Dresden Files, Book 9) . Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
We entered the cavern and found it packed with pale and startled beings, the entire place a wash of beautiful faces and gorgeous wardrobes—except for twenty feet around the entrance, where everyone had hurried away from the blazing herald of our presence.
Butcher, Jim. White Night (The Dresden Files, Book 9) . Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Furniture had been arranged in three large groupings, with a large open space in the center of the floor, and they were occupied by what I could only presume were the leading members of the three major Houses—somewhere near a hundred vampires in all.
Butcher, Jim. White Night (The Dresden Files, Book 9) . Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
I agree, but if he were, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant.He did. She did.
There's some ambiguity there. It may have been only a hundred total after all, or there may have been some vamps standing instead of sitting. In any case, most of them were only the "leading members of the three major Houses", which would mean there were a bunch of Whites who weren't in attendance.
So either there should be a lot of them, creating babies as they feed, or not that many because they are mostly sterile.There's no reason it can't be somewhere in between "a lot" and "not that many."
if they have sex it usually ends in death for the partner.Uhm ... no it doesn't.
Say only Lord Raith is fertile in his House.He isn't. There's old whats his name from Bigfoot on Campus.
Uhm ... no it doesn't.Um, unless there is very good control, yes, it does.. This is how Lord Raith entrapped his kids, set them up so they kill their first sex partner. However you are making my point, since this is how they feed, there should be a lot of little WCvamps running around, and there are not..
He isn't. There's old whats his name from Bigfoot on Campus.Refresh me, the memory is vague, but was the talk about sex or reproduction?
Vittorio Malvora was the son of Cesarina Malvora according to the wiki. https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Vittorio_Malvora. That was my recollection.Again, she was the head of that House, she might be the fertile one..
... He isn't. There's old whats his name from Bigfoot on Campus.Also Madeline & Madrigal's father wasn't Lord Raith (their papa departed from an aircraft without a parachute).
... Refresh me, the memory is vague, but was the talk about sex or reproduction? ...
This is how Lord Raith entrapped his kids, set them up so they kill their first sex partner.
Um, unless there is very good control, yes, it does.. This is how Lord Raith entrapped his kids, set them up so they kill their first sex partner.That wasn't the point you made or the one I responded to. You said a feeding usually ends in death. It doesn't. You're wrong. I seldom speak in such certainty on this forum because most things are speculative or there is at least an argument for it. You're simply asserting things that are contrary to the text with zero supporting arguments or evidence. You're just making stuff up. Which is fine. That's just headcanon or fan fiction. That's fine. I just think it's silly to suggest that one's headcanon or fan fiction is canon, unless the headcanon has some support somewhere.
However you are making my point, since this is how they feed, there should be a lot of little WCvamps running around, and there are not.There are a lot of WCvamps running around. Enough to constitute a supernatural nation with major figures from major houses. With such distinctions being made, there are likely minor figures from major houses and minor houses with respectively major and minor figures.
Refresh me, the memory is vague, but was the talk about sex or reproduction?I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. Whats his name from House Raith had a daughter. He wasn't Lord Raith. Sex is an integral part of any creature that reproduces through sexual reproduction.
Again, she was the head of that House, she might be the fertile one..Morris suggested that all female Whites could be completely infertile. That was what I was responding to. I thought that was clear. Lady Malvora wasn't completely infertile. Therefore all female Whites are not completely infertile.
There was a young white-court-virgin Raith proto-vamp.She wasn't neither a proto-vamp nor a virgin. That's kinda the point of the story. Not that it's germane to the current argument.
Morris suggested that all female Whites could be completely infertile. That was what I was responding to. I thought that was clear. Lady Malvora wasn't completely infertile. Therefore all female Whites are not completely infertile.
That wasn't the point you made or the one I responded to. You said a feeding usually ends in death. It doesn't. You're wrong. I seldom speak in such certainty on this forum because most things are speculative or there is at least an argument for it. You're simply asserting things that are contrary to the text with zero supporting arguments or evidence. You're just making stuff up. Which is fine. That's just headcanon or fan fiction. That's fine. I just think it's silly to suggest that one's headcanon or fan fiction is canon, unless the headcanon has some support somewhere.Blood Rites page 158
"What do you mean again?" He spoke quietly, his eyes flat. "Inari. He sent to you when saw you left my chambers." "If he wanted me dead, why didn't he just come and do it.?""It isn't how the White Court fights, Harry. We use misdirection, seduction, manipulation. We use others as instruments." "So your dad used Inari." Thomas nodded. "He intended her to have you as her first." "Um. First what?" "First lover," Thomas said. "First Kill."
"Let me guess," I said. "The first feeding is lethal." "Always," Thomas said.Then...
"Why in the hell has anyone told her, Thomas? What she is? What the world is really like?" "We are not allowed," Thomas said quietly. "We have to keep it from her. It is my father's standard procedure. I didn't know when I was her age either."
Vittorio Malvora was the son of Cesarina Malvora according to the wiki.Yeah, I guess so. Semi immortal takes a 50 50 chance of death bearing a child. Cesarina was a jewel of motherhood and Jim doesn't keep good track of what he writes.
She is also a head of a house, evidence of being a queen bee.Sure. Two heads of major houses have children. It's also confirmed that four other wcv have had children. Raith's brother, their parent because they're brothers, the guy from BoC, and Thomas. Additionally, the White in Jury Duty was "young" and had a human mercenary as a minder. Probably younger than Thomas and not Lord Raith's child or he was having children a lot more frequently than every 15 years.
Yeah, I guess so. Semi immortal takes a 50 50 chance of death bearing a child. Cesarina was a jewel of motherhood and Jim doesn't keep good track of what he writes.Thomas could have been looking at the survival rate of mortal mothers. I would imagine White mothers had a much lower mortality rate because they didn't have the "die from infection" rate that many real world mortal mothers had before we figured out germ theory. Also, they can feed to replace the energy stolen by the child's demon while a mortal mother couldn't.
You've disproved a point no one made. No one here said the first feeding isn't usually lethal. You said feeding is usually lethal. It's not. Thomas explains why at the end of Turn Coat. Also, Thomas was wrong. Bigfoot on Campus proves that.
"Then talk to me," I said, urgently. "Thomas, Jesus Christ. This is notyou." "Yes, it is, he spat, the words a bladed hiss. "That'swhat it taught me, Harry. At the end of the day, I'm just an empty place that needs to be filled." "I didn't want to kill those girls. But I did it. I killed them over and over, and I loved how it felt. When I think back on the memory of it, it doesn't make me horrified." He sneered. "It just makes me hard."
"I'm. . . not wandering around blind anymore. Not trying desperately to be something that I am not." He looked back down at the tigers. "Something I can never be."
It's still the exception.
There is an interesting idea lurking around this conversation. If it is the first fatal feeding that turns a white, does the infant who kills his mother during gestation come out a full fledged vampire?I doubt it, but that is undoubtedly an interesting idea.
There is an interesting idea lurking around this conversation. If it is the first fatal feeding that turns a white, does the infant who kills his mother during gestation come out a full fledged vampire?
And this is covered to some degree in PG at the Fool Moon Garage.
Apparently with a few exceptions, Margaret survived being pregnant with Thomas, the demon feeds to the point that the mother dies either in child birth or shortly after.
It's not a few exceptions. It's about 50/50, per the chapter.
Perhaps, but not a lot of children and their moms running about the Raith household either as per the whole series.. I can think of only one "child" ever mentioned and nothing of her mother.
He swallowed. “According to the family records, just over fifty percent either don’t survive the delivery or die shortly after.”
As to not a lot of moms, most of Raith's children were born a long time ago. They'd be dead of natural causes if they survived. As to Inari's mother, we simply don't know.
Did they?
No one else seems to have had any children either.
Maybe Raith ate them all up later.Very likely. Raith wanted to indoctrinate and control his children in a very specific way. Mothers would only complicate things.
Very likely. Raith wanted to indoctrinate and control his children in a very specific way. Mothers would only complicate things.
Question is, other than Raith, who else fathered children in House Raith? I believe early on it was strongly hinted that Lord Raith eliminated his male children. Thomas has managed to escape most of those attempts, which makes me wonder if Margaret's curse has anything to do with that? But aside from Thomas I don't recall any other male members being mention regardless of who may have fathered or mothered them in House Raith.Madrigal is first mentioned as a cousin of Thomas in blood rites:
Madrigal is first mentioned as a cousin of Thomas in blood rites:
"I don't know," he said. "Guess I can do what my cousin Madrigal does: find some rich girl." He grimaced. "I don't know what to do."
So somebody else fathered the twins Madrigal and Madeline.
Exactly, but they belong to a different House, don't they? I mean while they are all White Court Vamps, there are differences. The House of Lord Raith it is all about sexual emotions, the House that Madrigal and Madeline belong to if I remember correctly feeds off of fear.
Thomas grinned, but it didn’t touch his eyes. His gaze never left Crane. “Have you ever met my cousin, Madrigal Raith?”
Butcher, Jim. Proven Guilty (The Dresden Files, Book 8 ) (p. 218). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
“I recognize you,” I said pleasantly to Barrowill. “You were at the Raith Deeps when Skavis and Malvora tried to pull off their coup. Front row, all the way on one end in the Raith cheering section.”
Butcher, Jim. Working for Bigfoot . Subterranean Press. Kindle Edition.
“I doubt my father cares,” he replied. “He wouldn’t mind losing a nephew. Particularly not one who has been consorting with scum like House Malvora.”
I do not know where it was mentioned but I believe I read in the books Lord Raith and Madrigal's father were brothers.
It took Madrigal a while to control himself and find his voice. “You’re dead,” he whispered, pain making the words quiver and shake. “You gutless little swine. You’re dead. Uncle will kill you for this.”
Butcher, Jim. Proven Guilty (The Dresden Files, Book 8 ) (p. 219). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
... I do not know where it was mentioned but I believe I read in the books Lord Raith and Madrigal's father were brothers ...
Isn't he (M&M's daddy) the one Lord Raith sent skydiving without a parachute?Yes he is. Also mentioned in proven guilty.
There are all those nobles in the deeps in white night. About a third of them were Raiths and most of them did not live in the Raith mansions but were guests. There were more lesser vampires not invited. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg.
Or his demon played a trick. It could be that it wanted to procreate.
Perhaps, or because he is the son of Lord Raith, or and I wouldn't be surprised if it is brought intoThomas story is not finished yet. We first will get some dramatic stuff about their mother.
it at some point, true love. Or back to my original point, it has something to do with Lord Raith wanting to kill off his sons, they can make babies like he can, that makes them a threat. What I am getting at is I doubt that Jim would toss this in simply for melodramatic effect. It might even take a few books, but I think it will be significant somewhere down the road.. Or here is a wild thought, from the trailer we know that Thomas is in significant trouble, is he injured enough to die? Will he be executed or killed? What is going to happen to Justine? If she dies, who is going to raise the kid? Custody battle between Harry and Lara? Just some wild thoughts in my self isolation...
Thomas story is not finished yet. We first will get some dramatic stuff about their mother.
Very true, we do know a couple of things, Justine suffered from mental illness, being fed upon
has kept that in check, but I cannot remember if it cured her or not.
“It doesn’t matter right now,” Justine said. “I’m better.”
“You aren’t crazy, are you?” I demanded.
“You nearly scratched my eyes out that one time.”
She shook her head with a frustrated little motion. “Medication. It isn’t . . . Look, I’m all right for now. I need you to listen to me.”
Butcher, Jim. White Night (The Dresden Files, Book 9) . Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
why would he think he was more than likely sterile?Because he didn't think he was more than likely sterile.
Then again, Justine had sex with a girl friend to wreck her protection so she and Thomas could have sex.The trailer implies that she is protected again because they are wearing gloves. Does that mean the baby's demon can't feed? If so, does that mean it will wither and die?
Because he didn't think he was more than likely sterile.
The trailer implies that she is protected again because they are wearing gloves. Does that mean the baby's demon can't feed? If so, does that mean it will wither and die?
She started taking meds when she started working for Lara:
There is a contradiction there because why else would he say he was more than likely sterile, unless he really thought it?
“Yes,” Thomas said. “And my kind are all but infertile to boot. Happened anyway.”
Yes, but I believe she had been taking meds all along but they weren't helping as they should. The act Thomas feeding drained off her excess emotions and cured her severe mood swings if I remember correctly from Storm Front or one of the other early books.
“Yes. Yes, Thomas. He makes it quieter. Inside me, there’s so much trying to get out, like at the hospital. Control, they said. I don’t have the kind of control other people have. It’s hormones, but the drugs only made me sick. He doesn’t, though. Only a little tired.”
Grave Peril (The Dresden Files, Book 3) (p. 384). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
... If he wants to say that Whites have a low reproductive rate he should just say so ...
... my kind are all but infertile to boot. Happened anyway.
Does that mean the baby's demon can't feed? If so, does that mean it will wither and die?
Why can't the baby feed like a regular human baby?Because it doesn't?
Except that the baby’s Hunger will draw life energy from Justine. She’s going to be fed upon continuously for the next seven and a half months.
Why can't the baby feed like a regular human baby
Quote
“Yes,” Thomas said. “And my kind are all but infertile to boot. Happened anyway.”
Which means he had very good reason to believe he was sterile...
In other words a very low sperm count..
Because it doesn't?
Except that the baby’s Hunger will draw life energy from Justine. She’s going to be fed upon continuously for the next seven and a half months.
1. Just another example of Jim adding in information when it suits, retconning previously established canon.
1. Just another example of Jim adding in information when it suits, retconning previously established canon.
Thomas the hairdresser only needed intimacy.
Or rather he nibbled to keep from starving if I remember correctly.. He tried not to feed at all but it didn't work out.
IIRC, (it's at least implied that) Toe-moss could have fed more deeply, even as a hair-dresser. Could have rendered his clientele into helpless pleasure-thralls, addicted to his touch.
He chose instead to send them on their way with a pleasant feeling of sensuality and eros, to go delight (and delight in) their chosen lovers.
But you're right -- he was nibbling to stave off starvation, never "eating a full meal."
Or rather he nibbled to keep from starving if I remember correctly.. He tried not to feed at allIf the foetus keeps doing that for nine moths it will add up to something quite big.
but it didn't work out.
If the foetus keeps doing that for nine moths it will add up to something quite big.
The whole thing would be much simpler if Jim hadn't broken his own rules and the baby was just a pretty normal baby and fed like a regular baby.I agree. The best explanation is probably some sort of dormancy period like a lot of insects. Which is basically what Jim says in the video in didymos's comment:
IIRC, (it's at least implied that) Toe-moss could have fed more deeply, even as a hair-dresser.It's somewhat implied in the short story Backup, but it could also be read that feeding deeper would be accomplished by another means.
I do not think they feed on souls. They feed on your spiritual power, your life energy.
Thomas was a vampire of the White Court. They didn’t drink blood. They fed on emotions, on feelings, drawing the life energy from their prey
Butcher, Jim. Blood Rites (The Dresden Files, Book 6) (p. 15). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
That's what Harry says in Blood Rites:
I do not think they feed on souls. They feed on your spiritual power, your life energy.
Others feed off of fear, guess that one can be called life energy.. Now does bravery cancel it out?
“You’ve said that True Love (real True Love) only protects against WCVamps feeding on lust. What protects against the other WCVamps?”
It isn’t real complicated that way. The vamps who feed on fear get bad effects from real courage. Those who feed on despair choke on hope. :)
As I said, you might be making a distinction where one isn't needed. They are different things, but all bound together. Eating one doesn't mean you're not getting another. Streams, oceans, puddles, rain, tears, ponds, pools, fountains and falls. All are different, all are water.
The whole groups in the white court thing isn't well thought out, I'd agree. It is clear he really built it all around the sexual vampires and it really starts to fall apart when applied to the others, but it doesn't matter that much since they are largely kept offscreen.
True love protects one against the Raiths. Supposedly because of the melding of the souls and little of theirs is there to protect you or something. But that really falls apart when applied well. What if you feel true love but your partner doesn't? Why does the love protection have to come from sharing with someone (making love) when pretty obviously "true hope" and "true courage" are (I assume) solo activities? You could argue that Harry has stood up to so many things that should kill him, even when he believed it would kill him that he must have "true courage" and thus should be protected from the Malvora (or Skavis, whichever). Who knows, maybe he is, but the threat to him has almost always been the Raiths, so it doesn't really matter
The whole groups in the white court thing isn't well thought out, I'd agree. It is clear he really built it all around the sexual vampires and it really starts to fall apart when applied to the others, but it doesn't matter that much since they are largely kept offscreen.It doesn't "fall apart" I think you're making invalid assumptions. For one, if only one party truly loves the other, then it's not "true love". The person giving love wouldn't be protected, and the one on the receiving end wouldn't be because they aren't attuned to accept it.
True love protects one against the Raiths. Supposedly because of the melding of the souls and little of theirs is there to protect you or something. But that really falls apart when applied well. What if you feel true love but your partner doesn't? Why does the love protection have to come from sharing with someone (making love) when pretty obviously "true hope" and "true courage" are (I assume) solo activities? You could argue that Harry has stood up to so many things that should kill him, even when he believed it would kill him that he must have "true courage" and thus should be protected from the Malvora (or Skavis, whichever). Who knows, maybe he is, but the threat to him has almost always been the Raiths, so it doesn't really matter
And nowhere anywhere in the series (that I've seen) has there been indication that there is any protection from the other two known houses--let alone "true bravery" or "true courage". If there is, it would be up to Jim to present that mechanism. Yoou can't just assume a parallel.
It was the three major houses: Raith, Malvora, and Skavis. It's implied there are also some minor houses that haven't been named:I think that maybe you’re looking in the wrong place. I think thank when Thomas initially tells Harry “what he can’t tell him about”, he describes it as a gathering of a hundred of the most powerful vampires of the White Court. And I’m assuming that would be politically powerful. So the number of attendees was probably the proverbial tip of the iceberg.
As to the number of vamps there:
We then get a number on how many are seated, and that is about a hundred:
There's some ambiguity there. It may have been only a hundred total after all, or there may have been some vamps standing instead of sitting. In any case, most of them were only the "leading members of the three major Houses", which would mean there were a bunch of Whites who weren't in attendance.
There is an interesting idea lurking around this conversation. If it is the first fatal feeding that turns a white, does the infant who kills his mother during gestation come out a full fledged vampire?I suspect that you’re reading it wrong. If a fetus killed it’s mother by feeding, then it wouldn’t be born. I think that what is implied is that the feeding weakens the mother to the point that she doesn’t have the strength to handle the physical stress of childbirth. Making it a 50-50 proposition.
And this is covered to some degree in PG at the Fool Moon Garage.
I agree, but if he were, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant.Exactly. If ya’ll don’t mind, I’m going to suggest a different tack. First I’ll point out that the naagloshii referred to Lara and her sisters as phages attached to a rotting meat sack (iirc). But he/it was speaking to them. That implies that their consciousness is the phage, and the body just happens to be along for the ride. Thomas referring to it as a “demon” is just a figure of speech, distancing himself from his inherent nature.
So I’m going to suggest here that someone, some outside force, meddled…to make sure that Justine got pregnant.
So I’m going to suggest here that someone, some outside force, meddled…to make sure that Justine got pregnant.
Bob discovers that Little Chicago had been “fixed” with so that Harry’s head wouldn’t explode—then it was returned to it’s original state, with the damaged coupling.Was it returned to it's original state? I've never heard that suggested, and that was never my take.
Was it returned to it's original state? I've never heard that suggested, and that was never my take.
I rip out pieces of people's souls and eat them ...Thomas, Chapter 15, Cold Days.