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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: KurtinStGeorge on September 01, 2019, 06:01:36 PM

Title: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 01, 2019, 06:01:36 PM
Looking through the WoJ section I found some bits and pieces that might allow us to add a little to our knowledge of what's coming next.

Someone asked Jim, way back in 2011, when we'd see Injun Joe again.  Jim replied, "Injun Joe will have to be in there by [pause to think] at least by book 15.  Probably 15 and 16, he’ll both be in. [pause] Yeah, that seems about right.  I have to think these things through, I haven’t thought of the answer to absolutely every question."

So Peace Talks is book 15.  I could see a role for him in Mirror Mirror too.

When asked if we'd see Agent Tilly again, Jim replied, "Yes definitely.  Tilly I had to get into the story a little bit earlier on, for when things are happening on more than the Chicago level later in the story."

Damn that's pretty vague, but it sounds like Tilly is coming back eventually, but probably not in Peace Talks, but I'm not really sure about that guess.

After talking about Mirror Mirror a bit in 2014 Jim said this:"There’s Skin Game and then the next one the White Council is going to come to town and there’s going to be a big brouhaha, and then I think I can do Mirror Mirror after that. And then maybe we’ll do professional wrestling stories. Because I love professional wrestling. I watch it for the writing. And you can sort of pick out, well, wait, what’s the inspiration for this show? And you can figure out what the book is the inspiration for this show, this particular segment of the wrestling. It’s like, ‘Ah ha! This is the Return of the King episode. Look! They’ve destroyed the evil guy and now the good king is back, and now he’s the champion of the league, and so and so has been fired, and so and so has been re-hired, and he stretched forth his hand and cured a girl of cancer.’ It’s wonderful. I love watching wrestling. It’s great fiction."

There was actually more interesting info in there about the wrestling book than Peace Talks.  However, I can make a guess about Peace Talks if I add in that Jim recently said this book will get apocalyptic. Perhaps more than just a couple of representatives and bodyguards from the White Council will eventually become involved in the story.  My guess is, at first there will be one or two senior council members sent as negotiators with a retinue of security forces, but when the situation devolves into something uglier, this will force the White Council to commit more forces (more senior council members); or at least the Senior Council will justify their actions that way.  I also remember the post Peace Talks, Christmas Eve story where it's mentioned that Harry tried to warn people that things could get out of hand.  It wasn't said who Harry warned, but it seems most likely that Harry would have warned the Council, probably Marcone and maybe Lara Raith, that their actions could have dire consequences.  I don't think Harry would warn Mab, because he'd know that she wouldn't care.  Mab's going to do whatever she thinks is necessary to get the job done.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Regenbogen on September 01, 2019, 06:41:42 PM
Thanks for the research. Makes me even more excited. For the last few weeks I found myself opening Jim's website several times a day in the hope of finding something new. How silly is that?  ::)
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 01, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
I don't do it that often, but I'm starting to get impatient. Impatient in the restlessly eager sense, not the tendency to be quickly irritated or provoked sense. (I lose patients the closer I get to the thing anticipated).
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: SerScot on September 02, 2019, 07:47:53 PM
I’m looking forward to Peace Talks, I’m looking forward to Mirror Mirror... the wrestling story, not so much.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Mira on September 02, 2019, 08:57:48 PM


I just want to read Peace Talks, unless Jim speeds up the pace of his writing, Mirror and the wrestling story are at least five and ten years out..  I find it hard to get excited that far out..   
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: g33k on September 03, 2019, 12:35:08 AM
I just want to read Peace Talks, unless Jim speeds up the pace of his writing, Mirror and the wrestling story are at least five and ten years out..  I find it hard to get excited that far out.. 

I think it's reasonable to hope for a DF novel every 3ish years, now.  He had a real string-o-disaster life for a bit there!  Before that, we saw him doing 1/year for a little while.  Recent novels have been bigger, so ... 15ish months?

And he's alternating DF/CS.

Add a bit of overhead, and call it 3 years for 2 books (1 each series).
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 03, 2019, 06:52:42 AM
I think it's reasonable to hope for a DF novel every 3ish years, now.  He had a real string-o-disaster life for a bit there!  Before that, we saw him doing 1/year for a little while.  Recent novels have been bigger, so ... 15ish months?

And he's alternating DF/CS.

Add a bit of overhead, and call it 3 years for 2 books (1 each series).

Someone asked Jim at Westercon how he was challenging himself to improve as a writer, because Jim had just stated that with every new novel he tells he tries to challenge himself to improve in at least one area of his writing, because that's how he gets better as a writer.  Jim replied that he wants to work on streamlining his writing technique.  Essentially he wants to work on telling the stories he wants to tell in fewer words.  He said he wants to start doing this with the next Cinder Spires book and carry over any improvements he can make there into future Dresden Files novels too, so they won't have an ever increasing amount of words.  So if Jim is able to do that, it should, when he gets the hang of it, shorten his writing time. 
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Mira on September 03, 2019, 11:12:06 AM
Someone asked Jim at Westercon how he was challenging himself to improve as a writer, because Jim had just stated that with every new novel he tells he tries to challenge himself to improve in at least one area of his writing, because that's how he gets better as a writer.  Jim replied that he wants to work on streamlining his writing technique.  Essentially he wants to work on telling the stories he wants to tell in fewer words.  He said he wants to start doing this with the next Cinder Spires book and carry over any improvements he can make there into future Dresden Files novels too, so they won't have an ever increasing amount of words.  So if Jim is able to do that, it should, when he gets the hang of it, shorten his writing time.

One can only hope, I want to be alive at the end of the series, not only that but be able to read it!!
Hope he can perfect the technique for all our sakes...
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Regenbogen on September 03, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
One can only hope, I want to be alive at the end of the series, not only that but be able to read it!!
Hope he can perfect the technique for all our sakes...

Oh dear. I was thinking the other way around. Jim is older than me... No, I don't want to write it down. I wish for him to see his great grandchildren.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Lazarus52980 on September 03, 2019, 02:32:15 PM
So if Jim is able to do that, it should, when he gets the hang of it, shorten his writing time.

I don't think it works that way.  I'm no expert on writing, so I'll give a quote by someone who was:

“I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

― Mark Twain
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: morriswalters on September 03, 2019, 03:22:54 PM
Someone asked Jim at Westercon how he was challenging himself to improve as a writer, because Jim had just stated that with every new novel he tells he tries to challenge himself to improve in at least one area of his writing, because that's how he gets better as a writer.  Jim replied that he wants to work on streamlining his writing technique.  Essentially he wants to work on telling the stories he wants to tell in fewer words.  He said he wants to start doing this with the next Cinder Spires book and carry over any improvements he can make there into future Dresden Files novels too, so they won't have an ever increasing amount of words.  So if Jim is able to do that, it should, when he gets the hang of it, shorten his writing time. 
Fifteen books in if he hasn't gotten a handle on it then I personally don't see it getting better.  And if he starts a YA series it will be three books  in sequence, rather than two.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Mira on September 03, 2019, 05:52:37 PM
Fifteen books in if he hasn't gotten a handle on it then I personally don't see it getting better.  And if he starts a YA series it will be three books  in sequence, rather than two.

Agreed.. I think he has spread himself too thin,  fame works that way sometimes.  I can understand wanting to move on to other projects,  but then one should look at quality not quantity...  If the short stories are an example of streamlining I think he is going down a rabbit hole, because they don't seem streamlined so much as rushed..   Something to be expected when one has deadlines for every ball one keeps in the air and there are at least a hundred of them..
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 03, 2019, 06:09:58 PM
So if Jim is able to [write the same story shorter], it should, when he gets the hang of it, shorten his writing time.
I am a professional writer in that writing to communicate ideas is a large part of my job. A good portion of my education was on how to write well. Writing concisely while conveying your message effectively is hard. Trimming the fat is time consuming. It's probably the hardest thing for me to do in writing. I imagine it will take him longer to finish the series than it will take him to streamline the process to a point that would get us the series faster.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: toodeep on September 03, 2019, 06:50:06 PM
Hope he can perfect the technique for all our sakes...

Oh God no!  GRR Martin got in trouble writing one of his books because he told fans it was "basically done" after a year of writing and then took many more years to publish it.  The reason was because when he read what he had written it didn't go far enough fast enough.  He could have published, but wanted to finish the series in 7 books, so he literally took years editing and "working on his craft" to get it concise enough.  I'm still not sure he really succeeded considering how many side stories and bits got cut out of the series without detriment to the overall story.

I don't think that Jim would fall prey to that, but it does scare me.  Of course, on the other end of the spectrum in the "Robert Jordan" disease, where a very good 8-book series instead gets spread out over about 14.  (shudder)
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Regenbogen on September 03, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
Fifteen books in if he hasn't gotten a handle on it then I personally don't see it getting better.  And if he starts a YA series it will be three books  in sequence, rather than two.

I see it like this: Everything one does or can do has the potential for improvement because nobody and nothing is perfect.
If Jim wants to improve his writing it shows that he doesn't think of his work as being at its best. So I say 'go Jim' . I think his writing so far is great. You can see continuing improvement from Storm Front to Skin Game. So I'm very curious how his style will develop in future books.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 03, 2019, 07:18:05 PM
@Regenbogen: While I agree completely, one will hit a point of diminishing returns (, die, or have some sort of decline). But the thing about any skill set practiced long enough is that there is always a possibility of breakthrough moments when skill drastically increases when the skill has previously plateaued, so one should always aim at improvement when the skill set is central or highly valued.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: morriswalters on September 03, 2019, 11:39:49 PM
I see it like this: Everything one does or can do has the potential for improvement because nobody and nothing is perfect.
If Jim wants to improve his writing it shows that he doesn't think of his work as being at its best. So I say 'go Jim' . I think his writing so far is great. You can see continuing improvement from Storm Front to Skin Game. So I'm very curious how his style will develop in future books.
Jim knows how to tell a story, and he's really good at it.  But a shorter book can only come with decreased complexity IMO.  So for instance, in Skin Game, the act of Butters becoming a Knight adds complexity.  Murphy could have taken up the sword, she'd used it prior to that point and Jim took the time over the course of the books to show her journey. That isn't a criticism, rather a nod to the different ways the story can be told.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Kindler on September 04, 2019, 04:46:54 PM
Jim has stated that the short stories/novellas require nearly as much effort as writing a novel for him (source: http://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-future-df-works/). So I wouldn't expect a reduced word count to lead to a (significantly) reduced cycle. Something like three quarters of fiction writing (for me at least, and for lots of other writers who have spoken about it) happens away from a keyboard. Sitting down and putting it on the page is mostly typing.

Jim's not writing poetry or literary fiction; he's not agonizing over specific word choices, I don't think (not the way GRR Martin does, anyway, that old codger). He writes clearly and (for the most part) plainly. It's one of the reasons he's my favorite author; he's focused on entertainment, producing fun plots and interesting characters, not describing each scene in excruciating detail the way House of Leaves or Fight Club does. Reducing the word count isn't going to cut the length of time it'll take to put it on paper mostly for that reason.

And writing concisely can be a whole lot harder. Jim described his planning process as basically "General concept, Starting State of Affairs, general Ending State of Affairs, and a few Big Scenes That Happen Between Those Two things." Cutting the word count will basically mean going from Four Big Things to The Three Big Things That are the Most Relevant to this Book, unless I miss my guess.

In other words, I think we're talking about shaving off a couple of weeks' worth of writing time if he reduces his chapter count by, say, 15% of Skin Game. That's practically negligible for readers (though not for Jim). Say Jim did it for Peace Talks, for example. It might mean that he finished his draft in May instead of June (though Peace Talks is not typical of Jim's writing process for obvious reasons). It might make for a leaner, tighter, and (potentially) better novels, but it won't necessarily make for less work.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: spiritofair on September 11, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
Count me as a fan of focused writing! Both Robert Jordan and GRR Martin both had way too many tangential things going on in their books. Jordan would go off on tangents that were baffling, completely ignoring fan favorite characters like the main crew of kids from the town at the beginning of the story (Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynave) and focusing on boring, unimportant characters that, in the end, had little to do with the overall story.

Martin did the same, going far afield in Dorn and on Tyrion's river ride. And Brienne's travels. All boring, all detracting from the main characters. All worthless in the end.

And all of that crap slowed the story down. Jordan died before finishing his tale, and Martin probably is going to as well. I remember when Feast came out, and I lamented, oh, crap, he's pulling a Jordan. Man, did he!

Being a first person account, Jim really can't go too far afield like these other writers did, but I hope he keeps focus. I, too, want to live to see the end of this series, but if it takes him 3 to 5 years per book, hell, he might not even live to see the end. He's got, what, 8 books left?
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Regenbogen on September 11, 2019, 05:41:22 PM
Being a first person account, Jim really can't go too far afield like these other writers did, but I hope he keeps focus. I, too, want to live to see the end of this series, but if it takes him 3 to 5 years per book, hell, he might not even live to see the end. He's got, what, 8 books left?

That reminds me: there are novels with a first person narrator that have other point of views too. I always thought, it makes the death of the main character a higher possibility than with only the first person.
Normally a first person main character dieing is not logical, because how could he tell the story after his death?
Sometimes a second or third POV is introduced to be able to tell the story of the main character's death. But not always.
For example in the 3.Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb:
(click to show/hide)
On the other hand there are the Outlander novels by Diana Gabaldon. First book: Claire's POV first person.
Not sure if 2. or 3. book: third person POV's. In the 3. book there were several chapters from Claire's, Jamie's and Lord John's POVs.
After that until now more and more alternating POVs.
So far Claire is still alive. But we will see. Maybe in 6 or 7 years when the last book is out.
But it really slows the story down. Not as extremely as GOT but in the novels with less than 3 POVs there was more story, you felt as if a lot had happened.

I hope JB doesn't let Harry die for real (not like Changes ;)). I would like a happy ending. Not like "everything is fine" but a tragedy here and there but Harry and Maggie alive and happy.
But I don't believe he will do that.  ;D
And I hope there will be no other POVs except in short stories.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 11, 2019, 07:43:41 PM
What annoys me is when writers go off into the weeds describing something. The closest Jim comes to this, and it's not that close, is describing Mac's for the eighth time by the ninth book (or the Blue Beetle or Harry's apartment). Martin does it with clothes. I don't need three pages every chapter for each character's clothing. I was watching a panel where an author was talking about this. He said every author has a subject that they love that no one else cares about. He said that the author is over indulging himself when the reader can tell "the author was touching himself as he wrote it." It's almost always some "nerdy" area of interest like medieval clothing, currency systems, genealogy, etc.

I read a trilogy once where all of a sudden a second character had pov chapters. I knew immediately that the main character wasn't going to make it. I was right.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: g33k on September 11, 2019, 09:51:05 PM
... What annoys me is when writers go off into the weeds describing something. The closest Jim comes to this, and it's not that close, is describing Mac's for the eighth time by the ninth book (or the Blue Beetle or Harry's apartment) ...

I'm pretty sure JB tries to keep in mind that ANY of his novels may be the 1st one a new reader reads.

So iconic elements get at least a bit of exposition for the n00bz.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 12, 2019, 02:51:55 AM
One thing that keeps Dresden Files novels from becoming 1000+ page tomes; that are more coffee table books than something you really want to read, is that Jim usually limits the number of side characters who will interact with Harry, and he usually keeps other secondary characters from taking up too much space.

So in one book Thomas is Harry's sidekick, in another it's Murphy and so on.  And for a good example of how Jim effectively uses secondary characters, look at Small Favor.  Kincade and Ivy play important roles in the story, but they never threatened to overwhelm it.  Jim didn't waste time digging into pointless minutiae of these characters.  He gave us just enough information to picture them, get a feel for who they are and what it's like to be around them, and then had them play their given roles.

Now I felt both Ghost Story and Cold Days dragged a bit, though I'm no book editor.  I couldn't tell you what needed to be trimmed.  Actually, I thought Ghost Story needed a rewrite, but that's a different topic.

However, I think there may be legitimate reasons for Peace Talks to be the longest Dresden Files novel to date.  I'll give a condensed version of what I've written in other posts.  Harry hasn't had to face off with the Fomor yet, not really; just some of their servitors and lessor creatures.  Plus, Harry wasn't trying to fight them in Skin Game, just get away.  So there's that.  There's bound to be drama between Harry and various members of the White Council, amd that could get complicated.  Lara Raith will undoubtedly be on hand.  Then there's Thomas and Justine.  Marcone may play a role; actually Jim has already said he will.  Molly might be around, and then there is the issue of her new job and her parents finding out.  Will Ivy be there to broker negotiations?  Probably, and if she's there Kinkade probably will be as well.  Finally, it's likely some other major bad guy or bad thing like Cowl or Mavra will crawl out of the woodwork. 

I think most of the characters I mentioned above will either play a major role in the main story or in an important subplot.  I believe Peace Talks is going to be a very pivotal book in the series; that it will lay the groundwork for much of the future drama of the last five or six books before we reach the BAT.  That is why Jim will have worked all or most of the above named characters, and their issues, into this novel 

What I'm hoping is that the future books will have more focused story lines that allow for Jim to limit the cast of supporting characters, and the number of words needed for these characters and their parts of the story, to a reasonable number.  That's how I picture Jim being able to compact his word counts in future Dresden Files case books.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 12, 2019, 03:06:22 PM
I'm pretty sure JB tries to keep in mind that ANY of his novels may be the 1st one a new reader reads.

So iconic elements get at least a bit of exposition for the n00bz.
Totally agree, and it only annoys me a little bit, and that's because I've probably read these books too many times.

@KurtinStGeorge: Good analysis of Jim's writing style. One problem with Ghost Story is that there are side stories. The one with Fitz just feels like a waste of time without some sort of payoff down the road. Now Jim always has that sort of thing in his books, but the longer ones are usually only a paragraph or two. Fitz took up chapters. The other side stories about all the damage he has done to his friends are a necessary part of the story, but I think that adds to why it "dragged." Part of the problem with Cold Days is that it covered most of the ground covered in Ghost Story. As I've mentioned before, it took me about a third of the way into Cold Days to realize I skipped Ghost Story.

As for Peace Talks, only time will tell. Here's hoping for Christmas or sooner.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 12, 2019, 05:31:45 PM
Totally agree, and it only annoys me a little bit, and that's because I've probably read these books too many times.

@KurtinStGeorge: Good analysis of Jim's writing style. One problem with Ghost Story is that there are side stories. The one with Fitz just feels like a waste of time without some sort of payoff down the road. Now Jim always has that sort of thing in his books, but the longer ones are usually only a paragraph or two. Fitz took up chapters. The other side stories about all the damage he has done to his friends are a necessary part of the story, but I think that adds to why it "dragged." Part of the problem with Cold Days is that it covered most of the ground covered in Ghost Story. As I've mentioned before, it took me about a third of the way into Cold Days to realize I skipped Ghost Story.

As for Peace Talks, only time will tell. Here's hoping for Christmas or sooner.

You are right about Cold Days.  A lot of Harry's interaction with his friends was about the fallout of Harry's absence, and we already had seen that in Ghost Story.  That might be part of what annoyed me when Butters went off on Harry in Skin Game, even though Butters complaint was about the time Harry was stuck on the island, but it felt very similar to what we had seen in both Ghost Story and Cold Days.

There is an obscure website; I think they cover fantasy books, that is listing April 14, 2020 as the release date of Peace Talks.  I think they pulled this date out of their collective rear end because that led me to checking multiple sites for conformation and none of them had any info on PT's release date.  My guess is the publisher is highly motivated to push for a release date for this Christmas season.  I hope it works out that way. 
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 12, 2019, 07:27:42 PM
I have a hard time with Butters' "trust but verify" attitude that results in verification turning to a complete lack of trust while Murphy's attitude moves from Dresden being a "thing" to "you may be a monster, but I'll follow you anyway" at the same time. I feel like we didn't get enough character development from Butters to justify this. And it's the sort of character development Jim is capable of doing in a paragraph or two.

Murphy's transition can be justified by the text alone. Butters', not so much.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Regenbogen on September 12, 2019, 08:07:58 PM
There is an obscure website; I think they cover fantasy books, that is listing April 14, 2020 as the release date of Peace Talks.  I think they pulled this date out of their collective rear end because that led me to checking multiple sites for conformation and none of them had any info on PT's release date.
On amazon.de the date is listed April 2020, but I already got fooled last year. They had the date at October 2018. You could even preorder. I was so happy, when October came. But there was no book. In November I received an e-mail that the book wasn't available yet. What the f****. I was so disappointed. Why do they list some random date? Why don't they just say 'no release date known yet' or something like that?
Now it's the same with April 2020. The date was already online while JB was still writing.

On the other hand... If they had not fooled me, I wouldn't have started a research and found this forum.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 13, 2019, 12:16:46 AM
I have a hard time with Butters' "trust but verify" attitude that results in verification turning to a complete lack of trust while Murphy's attitude moves from Dresden being a "thing" to "you may be a monster, but I'll follow you anyway" at the same time. I feel like we didn't get enough character development from Butters to justify this. And it's the sort of character development Jim is capable of doing in a paragraph or two.

Murphy's transition can be justified by the text alone. Butters', not so much.

I tend to agree.  It felt a bit forced, didn't it?  Kinda like it was needed for the plot rather than as a natural outgrowth of Butters' character.  I suppose I should explain why the plot needed Butters to act this way.  Butters needed to be skeptical of Harry so he could learn to have faith in something bigger than himself.  That needed to happen for Butters to become KotC and made that moment feel much more powerful; or at least that was the intention.  I don't think it worked as well as intended because the forced nature of Butters initial skepticism of Harry tainted; to a degree, what followed.  (Not the entire novel, just the rest of Butters story.)

We see this happen in movies all the time.  A character will act one way or do something that isn't well explained or developed, just so they can do something stunning later on, like becoming the hero in time to save the day.  Sometimes in a fast paced movie you won't consciously notice this, but as Mr. Plinkitt on Red Letter Media's YouTube channel says, "But your brain did" notice it.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: CrusherJen on September 13, 2019, 12:26:48 AM
I'm thinking (hoping) the April 2020 date is a conservative guesstimate. If Jim got the manuscript back from the Betas and submitted it to the publisher in August, that's an eight-month turnaround, giving plenty of time for revisions, typesetting, printing, etc.

I'm truly hoping the publisher decides to expedite the process (and not just because I want it in my hands ASAP.) I'd heard here somewhere that the beta readers were getting chunks to read during the writing process. If that's true, then hopefully (crossing fingers) the manuscript won't need much polishing. Plus with all the pent-up demand for the title I think it's worth their while to get Peace Talks out as quickly as is reasonably possible.

I'm still hoping for December, but first quarter 2020 is also possible. The only justification I can think of for waiting until April is to avoid January and February, which tend to be slow months for retail in general. (And IMHO a good way to fight slow sales is to publish a proven author!)
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 13, 2019, 02:07:03 AM
Dresden Files bibliography
No.   Title                   Release date
1   Storm Front         April 1, 2000
2   Fool Moon           January 1, 2001   
3   Grave Peril          September 1, 2001
4   Summer Knight    September 3, 2002   
5   Death Masks        August 5, 2003
6   Blood Rites          August 2, 2004   
7   Dead Beat            May 3, 2005
8   Proven Guilty       May 2, 2006
9   White Night         April 3, 2007
10   Small Favor       April 1, 2008
11   Turn Coat          April 7, 2009
12   Changes            April 6, 2010
13   Ghost Story       July 26, 2011
14   Cold Days          November 27, 2012
15   Skin Game         May 27, 2014

Five of the Dresden Files books have been released in April and two in early May.  So I can see why someone websites would pick April of next year as a good speculative guess, even if there is really no evidence to back that up.

It's interesting to look at those release dates.  I remember thinking Jim took a long time to finish Ghost Story and the wait for Cold Days seemed endless.  I guess we didn't know how good we had it.   
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: g33k on September 13, 2019, 02:57:11 AM
Gonna add a column of data...

No.   Title                   Release date        AGONIZING WAIT
1   Storm Front    April 1, 2000
2   Fool Moon            Jan. 1, 2001        9 mo   
3   Grave Peril    Sep. 1, 2001        8 mo
4   Summer Knight    Sep. 3, 2002      12 mo
5   Death Masks    Aug. 5, 2003        11 mo
6   Blood Rites    Aug. 2, 2004       12 mo
7   Dead Beat            May 3, 2005          9 mo
8   Proven Guilty    May 2, 2006         12 mo
9   White Night    April 3, 2007         11 mo
10   Small Favor    April 1, 2008         12 mo
11   Turn Coat            April 7, 2009         12 mo
12   Changes            April 6, 2010         12 mo
13   Ghost Story    July 26, 2011        15 mo
14   Cold Days            Nov. 27, 2012       16 mo
15   Skin Game    May 27, 2014        18 mo
16    Peace Talks        ???                       ???

I suspect that the relatively-minor extra time for GS/CD/SG was for the complexity of laying down some pre-BAT material, and revising for consistency (per Beta feedback) with the ever-increasing canon... but maybe it was (in part or whole) dealing with some of the early stages of how things went so badly for him in this latest interregnum.

Also remember, his editor isn't a machine, either, and we don't know how much of a delay can be laid at the doors of after-Jim-hands-over-the-MS. people...

I doubt we'll ever get back to the days of 12-months-or-less-per-book, but I think 15-16 months is a reasonable hope.
 


ETA:  Columnation... really sux.  I swear, it looks fine in my compose/edit window!!!
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Mira on September 13, 2019, 02:17:40 PM
Quote

I doubt we'll ever get back to the days of 12-months-or-less-per-book, but I think 15-16 months is a reasonable hope.
 

No, that was back in the days when Jim had a lot fewer irons in the fire...  He is a good writer and a productive one, but a novel takes a lot of focus, a long series with lots of interdependent detail takes a lot of focus because his readers really notice if he screws up..
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 13, 2019, 04:32:19 PM
Butters needed to be skeptical of Harry so he could learn to have faith in something bigger than himself.  That needed to happen for Butters to become KotC.
Especially since the sword was the Sword of Faith.

@CrusherJen: It is my understanding that the Betas get the book one chapter at a time as Jim finishes the chapter.

@g33k: We could figure it out because Jim says when he finishes each book (I'm not sure how far that goes back, though).

I do agree that the books are going to take longer to write for all the reasons stated, but I do think 15-16 is a reasonable hope.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on September 13, 2019, 07:34:06 PM
In the original forum I posted a thread where I compared when Jim posted "The End" on twitter for each novel and compared it to the actual release date of the novel.  I think I went back as far as Blood Rites or Death Masks.  The record time was a little less than three months.  Jim typed "The End" in the first or second week of January and it was released in early April.  I think that might have been for Changes, but my memory is a little sketchy on that one.  The average amount of waiting was about six months.  A couple of novels took as long as nine months to the release date and I believe Cold Days took over a year.  There were several other Dresden Files books that only required four months from "The End" to release date.

Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Bad Alias on September 16, 2019, 05:22:54 PM
I remember that.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: g33k on September 16, 2019, 11:03:23 PM
No, that was back in the days when Jim had a lot fewer irons in the fire...  He is a good writer and a productive one, but a novel takes a lot of focus, a long series with lots of interdependent detail takes a lot of focus because his readers really notice if he screws up.

Well, Dresden is only going to be every-other novel; Jim has explicitly said he plans to alternate DF/CS novels.  If my 15-16 month-per-novel estimate is correct, 2.5 years will be the "new normal"(ish) between DF novels.

But I believe his Beta-Readers provide a lot of continuity/canon support, so Jim doesn't have to spend too much of his time on tracking down & verifying all the details.
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: Kindler on September 17, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
Honestly, I think our collective mental well-being would be better served if we all just planned for a new Dresden novel every... four years or so, if we're going to start projecting when we can read the next book. That way it'll be a GREAT surprise when it comes out a year later, or won't be disappointing if it takes three, because, hey, I assumed it would take a year LONGER!

(But secretly I'm hoping Jim returns to his Codex Alera/DF output and produces two awesome novels every year).
Title: Re: Info about Peace Talks from Reading the WoJ section
Post by: g33k on September 17, 2019, 04:12:53 PM
... I think our collective mental well-being would be better served ...
  :o
Stop yucking my obsessive yum !!!   >:(




 ;)