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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: RobReece on September 01, 2021, 01:00:45 AM
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We know that there are Ways to get to Demonreach, Rashid used one and Peabody (or his boss) used a different one. Ever since Harry received the gem from his mother, I've been waiting for him to find a quicker route than a 1 hour boat ride. Failing that, since the similarity was described in BG between the magic in the stones on the island and those in the castle, does anyone think he'll be able to establish a way or even a portal from the castle to the cottage?
Or does Jim not want it to be that easy?
Thoughts?
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From a Doylist perspective, the boat ride is usually good for framing a chapter of dialog and exposition with the narrator's companions, with the possibility of an action chapter off of being attacked in transit by hostile faeries, sea monsters, or Outsiders.
I suppose walking the Ways could substitute, but that's more likely to lean toward being attacked than talking. And Turn Coat kind of emphasized it's not smart to talk about anything sensitive in there, as anything might be listening and it's a distraction from being ready to fight anything that goes bump in the night.
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I think it isn't a matter of Harry knowing a Way to and from the island. With his mother's jewel he should be able to find one, I think it is more of a matter of does he want to if he has alternative means? In Turn Coat Rashid strongly hints that for most those Ways should be avoided. If I remember rightly when Peabody arrived though the Way on the island didn't a bunch of giant spiders arrive with him? Harry understands this, because you'd think if he really wanted off the island those months after Cold Days when Mab kept him incommunicado for the most part, he would have taken one of them, he had his mother's jewel to show the Way... But then again, Mab wouldn't have been happy about that at all.
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Considering that it might be a while before the Water Beetle is back in action, the Way to Demonreach could very well be an option that Harry explores in the relative near future.
Either way, I think popularizing the Way to get to the island will be something that Harry will prefer to avoid even if you ignore the dangers of going that way.
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From the Doylist perspective, I think Butcher could have Harry start using a Way to the island, if only to eliminate the tedium of writing about the boat. Sure, it's been a handy plot device, but a permanent Way can be used the same way.
It also felt very contrived to me been PT and BG that he had to hand wave "everything in Chicago broke down except the old boats", "it took the Fomor a couple of hours to prepare their attack after starting the battle", and "the approach from the water was more or less undefended except for this random kraken".
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From the Doylist perspective, I think Butcher could have Harry start using a Way to the island, if only to eliminate the tedium of writing about the boat. Sure, it's been a handy plot device, but a permanent Way can be used the same way.
It also felt very contrived to me been PT and BG that he had to hand wave "everything in Chicago broke down except the old boats", "it took the Fomor a couple of hours to prepare their attack after starting the battle", and "the approach from the water was more or less undefended except for this random kraken".
Yeah, that's a good point about the old boats. A hex that took out all the lights and cars in Chicago but boats are okay is kinda too convenient for the plot.
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Yeah, that's a good point about the old boats. A hex that took out all the lights and cars in Chicago but boats are okay is kinda too convenient for the plot.
Yeah, and unless they are sail boats or paddle boats, marine motors are still motors unless they were all supernaturally shielded like Murphy's motorcycle.. Another pretty convenient way to let our crippled heroine get around.
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Well, the Water Beetle is an old trawler, surrounded by water (partially submerged), so it does make a degree of sense that it wouldn't be affected the same way. Those types of engines are significantly more durable than most land vehicle engines (for example, boat engines are typically used way less often than a car's is, and I'm sure we've all seen what happens when you don't drive an old car for a month or two in the winter, and that's without talking about the battery). They have to resist salt water corrosion, etc. But the main thing is that the seacock on the Water Beetle was probably open (I really doubt Thomas closed it), and there was almost certainly a lot of water in the engine's cooling systems that helped keep it operational.
Also boat diesel is expensive, and boats are money pits. I got rid of my sailboat many years ago and haven't looked back. It was not nearly the chick magnet I was hoping it would be.
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The Water Beetle was also sunk at the end of Battle Ground. The old diesel might not work again and require a more modern replacement. Modern diesels have electronic controls and that might make it not work for Harry. Still a good way to run supplies if one of the Alphas or Butters runs it out. But, Harry is running out of mundane allies in Chicago.
I think Margaret's ruby is about to get used.
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Of course this is wishful thinking on my part, but I think the portal in the basement could open on to Demonreach when Harry checks it out. Jim kinda prepared the way for something like that in Skin Game. Demonreach might be safer then Lea's garden.
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I think Margaret's ruby is about to get used.
I really, really hope so. It feels like it's been tragically underutilized in the story.
For example... it might've been effing awesome for Harry to have used the directions from Margaret's travels to hop around Chicago during Battle Ground, or to use it to smuggle Thomas out, or to hightail it to Edinburgh to pick up the Merlin and anyone else who could come, or... something.
I know, I know, Harry was a little busy at the time and the guy can't do everything. But c'mon. He's got the power to go almost anywhere he wants to. He's had it for, what, two full years? Maybe longer.
It also functions like a diary. I'm sure Margaret left Harry more than magic MapQuest and a message for Harry (somehow) inside Thomas's noggin. There's got to be more than that for Harry to hear.
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Harry is a member of Winter. A Way to the Island may take him through territory that he's not welcome.
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Harry is a member of Winter. A Way to the Island may take him through territory that he's not welcome.
That is very possible, yet isn't Rashid also more or less a member of Winter? He is a general of Winter's troops at the Gates, and if I remember correctly aren't his robes and stole Winter's colors? Yet he managed to get to Demonreach, but without stepping on the island itself.
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Depends on how the Ways work, right?
If opening a Way between the Nevernever and reality is a matter of similarity, then he can maybe open one from the castle now- a fortress of solitude controlled by the Warden to another.
Lea's bond with Harry let her make the two places similar, I think- she nurtures Harry, from her POV, and she nurtures her garden, so the places can be made to overlap. If I'm right on this model, than Thomas taking Michael out of the Nevernever via a strip club is because women taking their clothes off is similar to wherever Thomas is.
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Depends on how the Ways work, right?
If opening a Way between the Nevernever and reality is a matter of similarity, then he can maybe open one from the castle now- a fortress of solitude controlled by the Warden to another.
Lea's bond with Harry let her make the two places similar, I think- she nurtures Harry, from her POV, and she nurtures her garden, so the places can be made to overlap. If I'm right on this model, than Thomas taking Michael out of the Nevernever via a strip club is because women taking their clothes off is similar to wherever Thomas is.
Yeah, I think that's basically the case, although I don't think it's as individualized as that. More of a general vibe of the place than one being's perspective. Harry's home was a place where he stayed and lived and grew, kinda garden like already. If Lea hopped over to the NN side of Harry's apartment then grew a garden like that, I don't think it would necessarily stay the NN side of Harry's apartment if the apartment didn't already have those vibes.
As an easier example, say the NN side of the Full Moon garage in FM is a suitably nasty place. If you forced your will on that NN location to make it cozy and friendly, opening a portal to the NN at the garage wouldn't still go to your cozy place. The correspondance between the NN and our world shift as the atmosphere of a place changes.
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Actually when you think about it, when it's defenses are fully up as presumedly they are now that the island has a Warden again, there shouldn't be any Ways open to Demonreach. Because a Way that can be easily opened leaves the island vulnerable to invasion. When Rashid and Peabody used it, the defenses were not fully engaged, yeah, Harry had just become Warden, but he had no clue he that he was or what it meant. Still even then the one Way wasn't easily used. So Alfred might be able to give Harry a special key for travel through it now, but I bet that Way is now closed even to Rashid.
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The Island's full defenses aren't up continuously. It could be that the Way near the dock is outside of the day-to-day wards. No doubt that Harry probably could block that avenue off, but it might still be an option for getting there in general, especially for people that behave.
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Demonreach almost certainly backs onto Tartarus in the Never Never in Hades domain. We know part of Hades Domain the vault backs onto its equivalent in Marcone Bank, one could therefore walk from the vault to Tartarus and portal to Demonreach.
The problem with this route is that it requires access to Marcone’s Bank, which means having access to the vault. Harry is marrying Papa Wraith’s daughter she undoubtedly has access to a strong room in the Bank.
Harry potentially has an access to Demonreach through that route.
Further the ruined cottage is Harry’s habitation on His stronghold of Demonreach. He has the Winter Kights apartment in Arctic Tor his stronghold there, now he has a Castle stronghold in Chicago. Lea’s garden was an artificial back onto the Never Never, much better Harry’s Castle backs onto Arctic Tor for security. So there may be route via the Castle, Arctic Tor, different part of Arctic Tor and The Cottage.
Two routes but I suspect the first is already in place, the second would require Alfred’s compliance that Arctic Tor is sufficiently safe which it might not be as it has been invaded in the files once already.
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It's really too bad Harry can't just consult with Cat Sith on creating a fixed doorway between two points, like he did in CD.
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The Island's full defenses aren't up continuously. It could be that the Way near the dock is outside of the day-to-day wards. No doubt that Harry probably could block that avenue off, but it might still be an option for getting there in general, especially for people that behave.
They weren't, but the island has been attacked since Turn Coat.. It didn't have a full time Warden at that time to fully deploy the defenses. I got the impression in Peace Talks and Battle Ground that the island's defenses were fully employed, if they weren't and there was a way in via a Way, you'd think that Justine/HeWhoWalksBeside aka Nemesis would use it instead of trying to trick Harry into letting them in.
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I don't think security has a lot to do with it. It's in the middle of Lake Michigan so it isn't secure, all you need is a boat and knowledge of the islands existence. Maeve and Lily got there with no trouble and the barges for the outsiders found it without too much trouble. So a portal in the basement wouldn't seem to be a problem, if that was the only place the portal existed.
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They weren't, but the island has been attacked since Turn Coat.. It didn't have a full time Warden at that time to fully deploy the defenses. I got the impression in Peace Talks and Battle Ground that the island's defenses were fully employed, if they weren't and there was a way in via a Way, you'd think that Justine/HeWhoWalksBeside aka Nemesis would use it instead of trying to trick Harry into letting them in.
Walking on the Island isn't the same as going down into the cells. You'd need Warden permission to do that (or convince Alfred that you're trying to save his Warden), so Harry would have been required for a Nemesis plot along those lines.
We also know that the Island's defenses aren't fully up all the time. For example, the circle in CD is only triggered at a certain level of threat. I think that an open and monitored Way to the dock would be fine for normal levels of threat.
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Walking on the Island isn't the same as going down into the cells. You'd need Warden permission to do that (or convince Alfred that you're trying to save his Warden), so Harry would have been required for a Nemesis plot along those lines.
We also know that the Island's defenses aren't fully up all the time. For example, the circle in CD is only triggered at a certain level of threat. I think that an open and monitored Way to the dock would be fine for normal levels of threat.
Harry wasn't fully in charge as of Cold Days, it wasn't until he spent a full year on the island, up until Skin Game did he learn the ins and outs of the defensive system and how to turn it on. Going to full defensive mode is apparently something Alfred cannot do completely on his own.
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Harry wasn't fully in charge as of Cold Days, it wasn't until he spent a full year on the island, up until Skin Game did he learn the ins and outs of the defensive system and how to turn it on. Going to full defensive mode is apparently something Alfred cannot do completely on his own.
Agreed, but I don't think the Island is continuously in full defensive mode, even now that Harry knows how to trigger it.
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Agreed, but I don't think the Island is continuously in full defensive mode, even now that Harry knows how to trigger it.
I believe it is now though, I seem to remember Harry ordering it before he returned to Chicago for the battle.
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I believe it is now though, I seem to remember Harry ordering it before he returned to Chicago for the battle.
But the idea that he ordered it into full defensive mode before the battle supports the idea that it isn't in that mode 24/7.
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But the idea that he ordered it into full defensive mode before the battle supports the idea that it isn't in that mode 24/7.
Perhaps, but times have changed, there was the breech by way of a Way by Rashid, [not hard to see why and supposedly he is on the right side] and Peabody who wasn't, in Turn Coat. One can make a case for Rashid knowing that way, but Peabody? Where did he get the info? Full out attack in Cold Days and breech of defenses, all these were pre-Warden in place to be sure, but close. Full lock down after Thomas installed in his cell, as per order of Warden Harry. As far as we know, it is still on full lock down, Alfred let pick up a semi-conscience Harry from the shoreline but he tossed Freydis two hundred yards into the lake. As far as we know, the island is till in lock down. However even if the defenses were eased somewhat, it makes no sense to leave the Way open.. Because that is perfect for a sneak attack. So if Harry does decide to use it as regular passage, you can bet he and Alfred have worked out a whole series of passwords and cosigns before it can be opened.