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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Mortax on January 17, 2013, 05:34:23 AM
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Okay, major CD Spoilers, so stop here if you haven't read it. :)
So there is a comment made in CD (For the life of me can't remember who and my book is on loan) that:
In our age, guardianship of the outer gates falls to Winter.
This implies that there have been other ages, and other guardians.
If that is the case, what about the Aesir?
Odin makes a comment in previous books to the effect that in this age his children have forgotten themselves.
What if Ragnarok happened, and that event was the changing of the gaurd, so to speek. (Note: Ragnarok was not the end of all things, more like the turning of seasons and the end of the Aesir.)
That would explain Odin's understanding of the gates. Could his missing one eye have been taken for the same reason Rashid only has one eye? And if Mac is Heimdall.....
Odd theory that popped into my head at 1:00 am. lol
Edit: It was Gatekeeper talking to Harry.
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not too odd a theory, tis been around a bit before
Summer Winter
Sidhe Formor/Jotuns
Formor/Jotuns Aesir
going backwards we also have some possibilities:
Olympians Titans
Titans Chtonics
Chtonics Dragons
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not too odd a theory, tis been around a bit before
Summer Winter
Sidhe Formor/Jotuns
Formor/Jotuns Aesir
going backwards we also have some possibilities:
Olympians Titans
Titans Chtonics
Chtonics Dragons
but odin IS zeus didn't you know? he just prefers to BE odin because we've made zeus into a laughable ass the past 20-30 yrs. arrogant, morally weak, incompetent. who wants to use a mantle that gives you those traits? he just keeps it on the back burner like harry did WK mantle in changes.
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but odin IS zeus didn't you know? he just prefers to BE odin because we've made zeus into a laughable ass the past 20-30 yrs. arrogant, morally weak, incompetent. who wants to use a mantle that gives you those traits? he just keeps it on the back burner like harry did WK mantle in changes.
noooooooooooooooo
woj puts zeus more in the 'could spank Mab just by blinking hard catagory'
hes much much stronger then Odin.
which makes sense- hes millenia older, had tens of millions more worshippers.. he's primal, WN.
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noooooooooooooooo
woj puts zeus more in the 'could spank Mab just by blinking hard catagory'
hes much much stronger then Odin.
which makes sense- hes millenia older, had tens of millions more worshippers.. he's primal, WN.
Which WoJ is this?
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noooooooooooooooo
woj puts zeus more in the 'could spank Mab just by blinking hard catagory'
hes much much stronger then Odin.
which makes sense- hes millenia older, had tens of millions more worshippers.. he's primal, WN.
never seen this woj. is he referring to zeus at the height of his power though? and you gotta think, at some point zeus stopped being the top dog errr.. god (lol) so obviously he's not the most powerful. sure the WG usurped his throne as lead deity but still, mab guards the borders, she had to have taken that responsibility from somewhere.
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never seen this woj. is he referring to zeus at the height of his power though? and you gotta think, at some point zeus stopped being the top dog errr.. god (lol) so obviously he's not the most powerful. sure the WG usurped his throne as lead deity but still, mab guards the borders, she had to have taken that responsibility from somewhere.
And if you throw in the potential effects of immortals stealing mantle bits from one another, it's still possible Zeus & Odin are the same guy. In my mind, the strength of an immortal depends on their mantle, somewhat. If bits get stolen & replaced, the immortal gets changed.
Hence the differences between the Greek gods & the Roman ones. Their mantles were somewhat altered some Halloween.
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Honestly I just want more Norse gods, mostly folks like Freya, Vidarr, and Heimdal (this goes double if it is Mac and he gets in the game).
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Honestly I just want more Norse gods, mostly folks like Freya, Vidarr, and Heimdal (this goes double if it is Mac and he gets in the game).
definitely wanna see mac go all heimdall on a walker, its overdue. was WAGin freya is mab...?
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Honestly I just want more Norse gods, mostly folks like Freya, Vidarr, and Heimdal (this goes double if it is Mac and he gets in the game).
Thing is, we might have already gotten some of this. From the way I interpret Cold Days, a lot of the older Gods are just masks for various Immortals. Heck, it wouldn't shock me if Mab was also Hera.
So, its possible that we might have seen more than we think, we just don't recognise them, because they're not wearing that particular immortal mask.
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Thing is, we might have already gotten some of this. From the way I interpret Cold Days, a lot of the older Gods are just masks for various Immortals. Heck, it wouldn't shock me if Mab was also Hera.
So, its possible that we might have seen more than we think, we just don't recognise them, because they're not wearing that particular immortal mask.
Heimdal could be Mac, Freya might be Mab, highly doubt we have seen Vidarr.
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Which WoJ is this?
its not in the main list. there are a few versions of it.. Jim talks about the theory of the medium fish; that Harry will never be the 'big fish' even after becoming winter knight and warden, bit will remain the medium fish because even tho hes grown much stronger hes now swimming in a much bigger pond.
Jim then mentions he can now do the 'fun stuff'- like the classical greek gods.
in other words- things much stronger then before. weve allways known they were out there; Harry in PG lists several people who could smack Mab around like a tennis ball, and the greek gods were on that list.
which makes sense; I know how popular odin and thor are today (largely due to mass media) but "Odin" first shows up around 700 ad and is over by 1000 AD. Hist total worshippers, at their hieght, was only a few million.
Zeus shows up around 4,000 BCE, was well established around 2,000 BCE and had worshipers in the 50-60 million range. And its not like he's forgotten or anything.
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/michelangelo-biography-1.jpg)
pssst. The god in the greek robes with a giant white bushy beard floating on a cloud and throwing lightning at sinners?
It's Zeus
the christian idea of the holy trinity ( father, son, holy spirit) has a lot more to with the greco/roman idea of the Capitlone trinity ( zeus/ athena/ hera) then it does with Judaism. Not a big surprise, christianity was created by Roman educated scholars like Augustine, not by Hebrews.
and then there is the whole hindu connection...
Heimdal could be Mac, Freya might be Mab, highly doubt we have seen Vidarr.
Mac isnt a god, by WOJ. Mab is very likely the Jotun queen of winter, who Odin promised to wed then stole the mead of immortaltiy from.
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Heimdal could be Mac, Freya might be Mab, highly doubt we have seen Vidarr.
was not mab wearing a cloak of feathers at harrys party in CD iirc? :o
Mac isnt a god, by WOJ. Mab is very likely the Jotun queen of winter, who Odin promised to wed then stole the mead of immortaltiy from.
but there is a whole host of other creatures out there that are not gods. what about a djinni? they are perfectly neutral and of course it would explain macs general lack of powers, he can't use them for himself... i DO NOT mean mac secretly lives in a lamp or beer bottle or some such though.
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Mac isnt a god, by WOJ. Mab is very likely the Jotun queen of winter, who Odin promised to wed then stole the mead of immortaltiy from.
He could still be Heimdal and not be a god, maybe someone stole all his mojo on Halloween but he somehow still retains the perk of not aging. Thus if as you propose the Aesir once watched the gate he knows the walker, because he was once "The Gatekeeper", and he is also out, because he lost all his powers and thus is just a mortal. Don't get me wrong, this is a massive WAG, but one I enjoy.
Also is this the WoJ in question?
Could MacAnally possibly be a son of Dionysus?
He's not a Greek god nor a scion of the gods, I'll tell you that much, but we will probably won't get to see much about MacAnally until the big trilogy at the end.
If so he could still be a Norse god.
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The arguement is that Mac was a god. Remember, Mac says "I'm out" and then later Odin reveals that it is possible to give up a mantle on certain confluxes.
The story I see goes like this: Ragnarok occurs, the guard changes and Heimdal finds himself out of a job. Unemployed, depressed, and Norwegian, Heimdal decides to deal with his midlife crisis by getting completely blotto for a few centuries/millenia. When he finally sobers up he decides to get his act together and do something productive in his retirement; forsaking his mantle and opening a bar in Chicago (possibly after power watching every episode of Cheers.) And if his chosen venue should happen to allow him to keep an eye on a certain starborn wizard, well...
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problem i see is heimdall basically did the same job as rashid, so he would have retired. Ragnorok never happened btw. otherwise loki and heimdall killed each other and fenrir killed odin(his wolfish smile seems totally odd right now) and of course odin lives on.
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As Ms Guard says at the end of Herot, and specifically with regard to the Norse, "Dont believe everything you hear."
One of the interperitations of the Ragnarok myth is that it has already happened, perhaps multiple times, and the only god who knows for sure is Baldur. It could be that Heimdall lost not his life, but his mantle in battle against Loki. This could explain why a god known for his rigid adherance to his duty would walk away from the job and open a bar.
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problem i see is heimdall basically did the same job as rashid, so he would have retired. Ragnorok never happened btw. otherwise loki and heimdall killed each other and fenrir killed odin(his wolfish smile seems totally odd right now) and of course odin lives on.
being dead in the NN is not as permenant as it used to be,
as to mac:
Could MacAnally possibly be a son of Dionysus?
He's not a Greek god nor a scion of the gods, I'll tell you that much, but we will probably won't get to see much about MacAnally until the big trilogy at the end. -Jim
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being dead in the NN is not as permenant as it used to be,
as to mac:
Yeah, but Jim couched that one pertaining to Greek Gods.
So, its possible Mac is a former god. Just not a greek one.
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Yeah, but Jim couched that one pertaining to Greek Gods.
So, its possible Mac is a former god. Just not a greek one.
he also said not a 'scion of the gods' .. so that eliminates 98.5% of the aesir. .. and aheck of a lot of all the others , too.
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he also said not a 'scion of the gods' .. so that eliminates 98.5% of the aesir. .. and aheck of a lot of all the others , too.
A Scion as defined by the books is, the offspring of one of the Never Never various beings, but with the various ascension rites out there, some of the god pantheons don't always get specific who's related to who.
Still, was just listening to Changes, & something jumped out at me...
Maybe Mac is a dog person.. (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/celtic-mythology.php?deity=CUCHULAINN)
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Reading this thread...taking a step back for the overview...and speaking generally::
It seems this fight to come is one that has been going on since the beginning of time. The only changes are the individual players...and not even that is as it appears since some of them (the key players) are the same, just wearing masks so it looks like a sequel with different characters...but they are the same. Same plot...same characters...different location.
It's like...Hangover 2.
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A Scion as defined by the books is, the offspring of one of the Never Never various beings, but with the various ascension rites out there, some of the god pantheons don't always get specific who's related to who.
Still, was just listening to Changes, & something jumped out at me...
Maybe Mac is a dog person.. (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/celtic-mythology.php?deity=CUCHULAINN)
Hmmm cool idea.
Id think Maeve might have said something, tho. They have History
I still think Mac is a warning of sorts to Harry- hes a wizard who did dark things for all the right reasons and is now paying for it. Thats why he wont get involved; he's terrified if he does he'll end up dark side.
Imagine if vader had lived after ROTJ. Think he would have stayed Vader? or would he have opened a nice quite Bar on tatoine somplace, and tried to find peace?
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Hmmm cool idea.
Id think Maeve might have said something, tho. They have History
I still think Mac is a warning of sorts to Harry- hes a wizard who did dark things for all the right reasons and is now paying for it. Thats why he wont get involved; he's terrified if he does he'll end up dark side.
Imagine if vader had lived after ROTJ. Think he would have stayed Vader? or would he have opened a nice quite Bar on tatoine somplace, and tried to find peace?
I like that general idea but with wizard being replaced by Gregori or watcher angel. IIRC some of the gregori were banished not for being evil but simply for not wanting to get involved. These distinctions get really squishy really quickly but there seems to be room for angels that fell from favor but who are allowed to continue on as long as they don't choose sides or take part in the war.
Regardless of what or who Mac is it seems clear after CD that he feels that his neutrality and lack of involvement are what his safety and protection hinge upon. Since the Sidhe and the Walker seem to be aware of this neutrality and to honor it to some degree it seems likely that whoever Mac used to work for is someone powerful.
They may not fear him but they seem to respect whatever tradition or custom allows him to remain neutral and it clearly goes way beyond his neutrality under the Accords.
I don't think that He Who Walks Before gives a rip about the Accords. He did seem willing to respect Mac in his role as "a Watcher" up until the moment when HWWb4 felt that Mac chose a side by giving Harry advice.
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A Scion as defined by the books is, the offspring of one of the Never Never various beings, but with the various ascension rites out there, some of the god pantheons don't always get specific who's related to who.
Still, was just listening to Changes, & something jumped out at me...
Maybe Mac is a dog person.. (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/celtic-mythology.php?deity=CUCHULAINN)
*comes in from Beast's Lair*
*sees this*
*is struck by the mental image of Mac in skintight dark blue clothing*