ty

aspects are nice then cause we can use them to cover a lot of the abilities they have without giving them so many powers, they might need some fate points to pull some of it off but sure beats a critter with so much power it could never be played. Its like writing the story as you play

their true form isn't necessarily physical, but they can be killed generally by other demons. They invest their spells into there bodies and the collective, you cant simply kill them with a shot to the head, to many contingency magics in place. But if you strip them of their magic they can die. Average life span of a demon before magic is like 180 years, each time the shape shift they reset their cellular clocks, and they can shift at will into anything. none of them remember their true form and or have their true dna any longer. Though the original samples are stored in the collective.

They destroyed the everafter in a magic war with the elves and now they are stuck in it unless they are summoned out in some fashion. If they can devise the spell and can gather the energy they can do it. Females hold more energy then males since they get pregnant, only two females left. The rest are male. They use souls of other creatures as energy as well so they collect them.

Extremely fast strong and resistant to damage. In the last book we learned there original forms were not good at combat, so when the elves betrayed them they altered there forms into what they call warforms and kind of just left it that way for thousands of years. Think contingency magic, they probably can do thaumatugy on the fly, like it was evocation,  I think someone mentioned like fey queens, maybe the youngest one.

 Thats what rachel did early on she worked around them found ways t o bind them. They cant remain in the world when the sun is up. As or own abilities progressed she has been able to fight them but shes not 5000 years old, and though she can by far hold more energy then any of them her skill just isn't up to par and she doesn't store  magic in her body. When they do that they can call up the spell with a thought instead of a cast.( she doesn't have a war form like they do i suspect the warform is why they are faster and stronger.) I think that is the source of the extreme power, Investing magic into there own bodies like a movable ward with lots of stuff weaved into it to cover things that could happen. And they have had 5k years to think of things that could happen.

 And they make enchanted items up the wazo forgot about that.

so what kind of stats/abilities would we give Kim Harrison's demons, Say al, or newt even rachel: supernatural strength speed and toughness since they should be able to outmatch a vamp, having created them. Lore, conviction and discipline at least a 6 maybe a 7 more for the top of the line ones. Evocation and thaumaturgy for all of them. Shape shifting many forms including gas. Any number of abilities depending on the form they take.A number of stunts to represent their vast knowledge of the arcane and the mundane. damn there gonna be strong

I ran a game focused on wizards and not set particularly in the Dresdenverse. I used Toughness Powers for the mental stress track instead of the physical. I think I just called them inhuman, supernatural and mythic spellcaster or something.

Wizards could then sling around lots of spells and only tired when reaching well above their normal capabilities or when they couldn't control what they drew in.

It was fun and the wizards were bad news. After doing this, I would probably give the heavy hitters like Ebenezar and the Merlin these powers.

i like it since i prefere wizards to any other type

B Just saying that ever since Hamilton's Anita Blake Vampire Slayer series came out the market has exploded, which is good, however it's mostly a hit or miss on if a book/series is worth reading. 

But sure send me a list, am always open to reading things others recommend.

Not to mention she is hit or miss and half her books involve more sex in various kinds of way then i really feel like reading. I love the hollows series almost as good as a dresden maybe as good, if your looking for a good series.

Brought up in another thread I opined that I don't care much for the rules when it comes to magic. Why you might ask:  Wizards have at best 4 spells per engagement with the possibility to flub them fairly easily. If they decide to go balls to the walls to take out some really big bad they have even less. This makes them about level 2-3 in the old dungeon and dragons system. Remember when a first level wizard could only memorize one spell and it was almost always charm person so you could have some one fight for you at for a round.(which would be breaking the laws of magic and so someone would come and cut your head off just cause you were trying to stay alive. ) Maybe you choose magic missile but either way after that you where poking things with your dagger.

True the DFRPG wizards can do some nifty things with the 3-4 spells they have, if they have enough power and if they roll well and if the target doesn't roll well. To many ifs. I Like magic, I like roleplaying games with magic in them, I like my wizards nice and powerful, its one of the reasons i hate MMOs  the guy with the stick is always tougher then the guy who can bend nature to his will and wipe out a continent. Really who would spend years studying the arcane when a guy with the club always wins. In most role playing games this is well reflected and no game reflected it better then Ars Magicka, wizards were top and the magic system is a blast.

I just can't get passed the idea that your limited to 3-4 spells. It doesn't matter how creative you are with them or what they can do in theory, you basically cast one defensive spell and hope it will last a few passes of the engagement. and you have 1-2 shots at taking out the bad guy.

An example defense in action: say you end up with a legendary roll: you have a block of 8 for one pass and then you have to roll again and gain another mental stress. Or you can reduce the block to 6 and have the spell last for 3 passes. Provided it isn't brought down early if the bad guy roles well. And what nasty in the Dresden world couldn't beat a block of fantastic.

I just can't see how the white court brought down the entire red court of vampires. This system is not meant for large scale engagements. Every few minutes the wizards have to hope their not in combat so their mental stress can reset, how does that happen in pitched battle. In the books when lucio is killing zombies with little blasts of flame very pin point stuff, harry even comments on how much control that takes. But she did it over and over again without rest, try that in the game. The game rules do not reflect what the book says these wizards can do. If we want we can describe our spells that way but the effect in no way will match what we describe. the power of the spell has to be broken up over all the targets. So a legendary effect becomes 2 good effects and a fair effect against only three targets. Maybe they die maybe they don't either way i got 1-2 spells left after that one and the defensive one i had to cast or i would have been killed at the beginning of the first pass because anything that's not human is faster and stronger.

Its true we have some enchanted items that really even up things but we really can't cast spells we just carry a lot of junk along with us. Then add the silly rules of magic into it and you got a lot of effects you can't even use against run of the mill bad guys. I just threw those out, what fun is  playing a mage if you cant polymorph someone or read their mind to find out if there the ones your looking for. Just plain ick thats what its is.

Now with all my feeling about the magic system you might ask why bother playing. I love urban fantasy, I can't decide which world is better The hollows or Dresdens I like playing in it. I only wish the magic system lived up to the books.