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Messages - nadia.skylark

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DFRPG / new power idea--reverse evothaum
« on: December 25, 2016, 08:04:06 PM »
I've been trying to figure out how to handle thaumaturgical spells based on evocation elements. For example, if I wanted to burn out an infection, that's fire magic, but it's also clearly thaumaturgy.

Instead of creating a new thematic specialization "fire" for thaumaturgy and buying refinement for it, I was thinking of creating a power that is sort of like evothaum, only instead of allowing you to cast thaumaturgy with the speed and methods of evocation it allows you to cast evocation with the speed and methods of thaumaturgy.

Does that sound balanced? If so, how much refresh should it cost? Should it apply to just one element, or should it apply to all your evocation elements?

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DFRPG / Re: buying stunts with skill points
« on: December 25, 2016, 04:43:44 AM »
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The problem is skills have to follow the pyramid and you'd be losing a skill point to boost a skill....

Unless I'm not understanding. 

Let's say I have +5 weapons, I could lower my weapons to 4 (assuming my skill pyramid can handle another +4 skill) to buy a stunt that lets me dodge with weapons rather than althleics.  It's not quite as good as it used to be because my weapons skill is lower but it's still better than my athletics...

Is that what you mean?

I could see it useful when you get a significant milestone and your pyramid is shaped in a way that all you can do is pick up a skill at +1. 

It's a way to get around the skill pyramid, yes. It's also a characterization thing. If a character is good at using, for example, revolvers, that doesn't mean that they're good at using sniper rifles. However, because the Guns skill applies to both equally, the only way to represent that is either stunts or aspects.

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Instead you use it to boost one of your other skills by +2(in a certain circumstance)
I don't know....it sounds abusable if you use it that way.  Why take a skill at +1 when you can boost one to + 7.   You know?

The other problem is the refresh economy.  You could end up with way more stunts than your refresh allows which should normally put you over the tipping point of free will.   And refresh is how you maintain game balance too.  You'll end up with way more stunts than your 'level'.

It might be abusable, yes. That's why I asked about cost. It might be less abusable if it costs multiple skill points per stunt, or if you can only buy a limited number of stunts per skill this way, or if the price increased depending on how many stunts you buy this way. I'm not sure what would work.

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I think you're messing around with major game balance for no apparent reason besides "why not?", which is fine if that's what you want, but I try not to arbitrary mess with rules unless there's a good reason to for game balance or ease of play, etc.

The RAW relationship between refresh/skill points works quite well. I see absolutely no reason to mess with it. And like Taran said, doing so basically throws the whole refresh economy out the window.

Sounds like a min-maxer's wet dream.

I'm doing this because stunts can be important for characterization, but are so expensive for some character builds that you can't use them that way. For example, Harry Dresden should have the Infuriate stunt. It's clearly written for him, it's perfect for his character, but he doesn't have it because he doesn't have the refresh for it, and because of this his ability to piss people off is nowhere on his character sheet, even though IMO it's nearly as important to his character as his Epic Wiseass tendencies.

678
DFRPG / buying stunts with skill points
« on: December 25, 2016, 12:34:50 AM »
I was thinking about what stunts do, and mostly they seem to either boost the value of a skill under specific circumstances or transfer a trapping from one skill to another. Both of these things can be accomplished by investing skill points in the skills affected by those stunts. For example, I could buy a stunt that gives me a +1 or a +2 to my weapons skill when using rapiers, but I could accomplish the same thing by raising my weapons skill.

Because of this, I think it might be a good idea to let people buy stunts with skill points as well as refresh. Does this seem reasonable? If so, how many skill points should one spend to buy a stunt?

679
DFRPG / Re: inhuman reflexes?
« on: December 09, 2016, 11:45:40 PM »
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Right, alertness not athletics.   My mistake.

Ah. Alertness makes much more sense. So the Legendary Initiative is just another typo.

680
DFRPG / Re: inhuman reflexes?
« on: December 09, 2016, 03:21:49 PM »
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Seems to me that Thomas and Lara just happen to be very good with firearms--which makes sense, given that they don't have natural weaponry of the Reds or Blacks while normally lacking all but very basic ritual magic.  That leaves our trio of physical combat (Fists, Weapons, Guns) as the final argument (though it's much better to let the cat's paws handle things).

Harry also pegs Kincaid as something supernatural after watching him shoot red court vampires in Death Masks because he doesn't miss, saying that no matter how good a mortal is they'll still miss sometimes.

Harry also mentions in Small Favor that Thomas doesn't practice shooting, which he would need to do if he wanted to be really good without some sort of supernatural help.

681
DFRPG / Re: inhuman reflexes?
« on: December 08, 2016, 10:31:03 PM »
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So is his  athletics at 4?

Yes.

On a related note, has anyone designed an "inhuman reflexes"-type power? Harry mentions in the books that supernatural beings like vampires don't miss when aiming guns (among other things) which seems like it should be a power rather than a skill, but I can't figure out how to create one that doesn't feel unbalanced.

682
DFRPG / Re: inhuman reflexes?
« on: December 08, 2016, 06:56:32 PM »
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I don't have the book but could it be a misprint?   Inhuman Speed?

Re-reading it, this seems likely, especially since it's right under Superhuman Strength.

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Look at the description and see what they are dodging at.  Sometimes they give a description like "Superb Defenses". 

The description mentions that he has "Legendary Initiative." Would that make sense for inhuman speed?

683
DFRPG / inhuman reflexes?
« on: December 08, 2016, 05:43:47 PM »
So, I was just reading my copy of Paranet Papers, and I noticed that one of the characters had "inhuman reflexes" on their character sheet, but I couldn't find an official description of the power? Is it there and I just missed it, or is it in one of the other books, or online, or what?

684
DFRPG / Re: Vampiric Mental Attacks
« on: November 09, 2016, 06:55:39 PM »
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Question #1: Are White Court Vampires immune to attempts by other White Court Vampire uses of their Invoke Emotion ability? This may have been covered in the books, but I can't seem to recall if this was ever stated explicitly.

Definitely not--it's the way Lord Raith controlled his daughters, and the way Lara now controls him.

685
DFRPG / Re: ritual to remove a denarian shadow
« on: November 07, 2016, 10:28:48 PM »
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What point are we talking?  Murphy is clearly keeping in touch with Butters, Elaine, and the Carpenters to some extent post-Changes.  Prior to that his friends were far more fragmented, but after they were forced to band to together somewhat

They were all involved in the fight in SmF, so they are aware of each other at least then.  Daniel is clearly familiar with them by GS.  Can't really say much more after that.

We're talking about the time up to Proven Guilty. In later books, I agree that everyone is much more interconnected.

686
DFRPG / Re: ritual to remove a denarian shadow
« on: November 07, 2016, 06:32:52 PM »
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But Harry's friends keep in touch; I expect Murphy in particular kept in touch with Michael, but also maybe Butters, even the Alpha's.

Why? So far as I can recall, Murphy and Butters had at this point met Michael all of once, at the end of Death Masks. Assuming they met regularly based on this would be like assuming that Murphy regularly calls up Ebenezer just because they met during Blood Rites, or that Charity keeps in touch with Fix after Proven Guilty. Harry has plenty of friends and allies that have nothing to do with each other outside of him.

For that matter, I don't think the Alphas have ever met Michael.

687
DFRPG / Re: ritual to remove a denarian shadow
« on: November 05, 2016, 02:16:07 AM »
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I think the fundamental issue for wizards is the degree to which "magic" represents a raw will-to-power:  utilizing force of will to make the universe conform.  That sort of mental process would perhaps be very reinforcing to the parts of the mind/brain/etc where the Shadow resides...  Abandon it, and the Shadow "starves" -- normal un-Enshadowed neural pathways get reinforced, etc.

The problem with this is that it seems to imply that a shadow would have little to no effect on someone who wasn't a wizard, and that the shadow would be wiped away from them--which seems highly unlikely.

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Our concepts of "self" as largely autonomous and self-aware are a bit illusory.  People who fight a lot actually reinforce the neural pathways leading to conflict, and engage in it more-readily... all while "feeling" they are "the same" and just as likely to choose a peaceful solution "if they wanted to."  The become LESS CAPABLE of achieving peaceful resolutions, or holding to a peaceful position when challenged.

In Harry's case, he was getting more and more angry/violent/scary without even noticing it, under the influence of Lasciel's Shadow.  It was a spiral deeper and deeper into the abyss (or The Abyss, if you will).

True, but how would Michael know that? Harry had been avoiding him since he got the shadow.

688
DFRPG / Re: ritual to remove a denarian shadow
« on: November 04, 2016, 02:20:54 AM »
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The Church has a method, IIRC:  forswear all worldly power & action, live a life (with Church support) of penitential prayer & meditation.  Eventually, the Enshadowed can become cured of the Shadow.  I believe Michael tells Harry this.  It's the method Michael knows, from Church teachings; this means that the Knights should try to turn the Enshadowed over to the Church hierarchy, rather than holding them and trying to talk them 'round "in the field" (I mean, I'm sure they DO try to persuade the Enshadowed for as long as they are with them... ) .   Church doctrine seems to be that the Enshadowed CAN be saved (via seclusion).

Actually, I believe the method was for Harry to give up his magic. Nothing was said about seclusion, or indeed about saving people who didn't have magic.

And really, I'm skeptical about whether Harry giving up his magic would have gotten rid of the shadow. It probably would have gotten rid of Hellfire, but I'm having a hard time seeing how it would get rid of the rest (unless the answer is "God would do it" in which case the question becomes "why wouldn't God get rid of the shadow without insisting that Harry give up much of his ability to help people first?").

689
DFRPG / Re: ritual to remove a denarian shadow
« on: November 03, 2016, 07:43:09 PM »
Does anyone have a copy of White Night to look up what Lash said when Harry pointed out how long he'd resisted her? I have a feeling it will resolve some of the questions about whether a shadow had ever been evicted before--or will at least give us more to talk about :)

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I think no mortal had PREVIOUSLY resisted a Shadow ON THEIR OWN.  The support of the Church may well have allowed a mortal to resist that long, but the Denarians were probably keeping track of Harry enough to know that he hadn't gone to the Church for help (rather the opposite -- Harry AVOIDED the Church & even Michael).  I suspect that the prior Denarian experience of "resisting a Shadow on one's own" looks an awful lot like suicide...  So, they were confident that Lasciel's Shadow had brought Harry largely to heel.

I reiterate my basic positions:
Humans change, and grow, and heal.
Humans have free will; for them redemption is at once incredibly hard... and the simplest thing in the world.
A shadow of one of the Fallen is PART of the human host, but an unnaturally forced part.
I suggest that (if the Shadow doesn't succeed in tempting/bargaining/coercing the host to take up the coin) healing from the Shadow is a normal, natural thing; the Church strategy is just based upon giving the mortal time to heal.

I'm somewhat skeptical about the Church thing--if it were true, you'd think that Michael would have mentioned Harry's situation to Father Forthill, and he would then have told Michael. Of course, it's possible that Michael didn't tell Father Forthill, but if the Church had a way of evicting shadows, then one would expect the Knights would at least be told to tell their handler in the Church if they ran into an Enshadowed who wanted to be freed.

Also, not all injuries heal (unless you're a wizard :) ).

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DFRPG / Re: ritual to remove a denarian shadow
« on: November 03, 2016, 02:13:15 PM »
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1 - I imagine that the Church has had quite a few occasions, across the centuries, to attempt removal of shadows.  I presume the Fallen have been "Enshadowing" mortals for millennia (i.e. the Denarians are using a method long-known amongst the Fallen), and have developed a LOT of ways to resist removal.  I doubt that any mortal (except perhaps the current vessel of the Archive) has sufficient knowledge to remove a Denarian shadow.

While the Church has almost certainly attempted to remove shadows on many occasions, there is no evidence that I know of that they have been working with wizards to do so. Even if they have been working with wizards, it is quite plausible, given what the White Council thinks of mind magic, that they've never worked with one skilled enough at psychomancy to do this.

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2 - We only know of Lasciel's shadow.  Others may operate substantially differently!  We already know that the actual Denarians operate very differently, so I presume their shadows do, too...  One of the more-brutal Denarians might just try to coerce the host, break down their will until it can force them to go get the coin:  sleep deprivation, illusory pain, etc etc etc...  How one might go about opposing or removing a shadow might be very different (and substantially harder, or easier) depending on the Fallen who "Enshadowed" the mortal.  I presume some will simply destroy the host-mind, rather than permit it to go free...

Very true.

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3 - Given the ability to create illusions, I'm unclear on how much one could rely upon a ritual that one created for oneself... do you REALLY have that holy water frozen in your ice-cube tray?  And are you really grinding them in a sno-cone maker, or is it actually a (none-too-clean) meat-grinder?  Etc...

This is why the first couple of steps are ensuring that the shadow can't interfere.

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4 - This one is more hypothetical, but:  I suspect that Harry's case is just a specific instance of the general Church method.  A "Shadow" is a quick impression/imprint of Fallen will&knowlege placed within a mortal mind and fundamentally PART of that mortal.  But mortals can change, can heal, can be redeemed.  Harry found a way to "redeem" Lash, and she ended up sacrificing herself to save Harry; note well:  Lash chose the path of love and self-sacrifice... she was no longer "fallen!"  I suspect that ANY mortal will eventually be free of a Fallen-Shade (unless they succumb and claim the coin).  The Church restrains the Enshadowed mortal and the coin, and gives that mortal support to heal; Harry just used sheer stubbornness & fundamental "goodness" to hold out until natural healing could happen.

I seriously doubt that. Even if all the records the Church had on this method were destroyed, the fact that Lash was so surprised when she realized that Harry had resisted her so long would imply that no one had done so before. (I think Lash actually said something to that effect, but I don't have my of the books with me to check.)

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It obviously depends on the GM, but in canon I'd classify this as the sort of thing that requires Big magic to accomplish, similar to how it required a Mother of Winter to remove the Red Court infected taint.

Given that mortal free will can throw the Fallen out, it ought, IMHO, to be able to remove a shadow as well. The question then becomes how to exercise one's free will to be rid of the shadow, since just telling it to get out is obviously insufficient.

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