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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: JStreet on October 11, 2011, 07:15:12 PM

Title: White Court Fae?
Post by: JStreet on October 11, 2011, 07:15:12 PM
I have a player wanting to be a White Court Changling... Don't think it works but thought i would ask.  She essentially wants to be a White Court Vampire with Wings.   

I was thinking of telling her that she could wait till they "gain a refresh" and do it in game through the use of Magic, And make her for a spell to Permanently Give her wings later.

Any Idea's? She wants to be both Fae and Vampire lol.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: sinker on October 11, 2011, 07:23:09 PM
I think canon has neither confirmed or denied this possibility.

The only real issue I see with it is that she'd be real murky territory as far as the accords go. As long as you're ok with however she chooses to work out her powers.

If she's simply wanting to have the emotional vampire aspect and wings, but doesn't necessarily want white court then you could just make her a changeling. I'm sure there are plenty of fey who fit that description.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: wyvern on October 11, 2011, 08:11:38 PM
I'd say it's fine?  But I can see where someone who really wants to follow canon exactly might be hesitant.

Though there are - as Sinker points out - a number of other options to get a similar power set:

1) "Pure" changeling, as suggested by Sinker.
2) Changeling or WCV, with an item of power granting whichever ability set she doesn't naturally have.  The item can, as usual, come from just about anywhere - a deal with a particular fae; an old family heirloom; something you found at an estate sale...
  2a) A mask would be a good item to grant emotional vampire type powers.  Jewelry in general could work well, too, particularly for the lust variation on WCV.
  2b) Wings could just be wings.  Or a cloak, or dress, or swimsuit, or other relatively obvious bit of clothing.  Or perhaps even something like bracers or bracelets, particularly if the wings replace her arms when active.  Note that if this item is explicitly running on fae power, it might be appropriate to have it also grant, say, glamours.
3) Scion "template", probably of something more akin to the standard demonic succubus type critter.
4) Emissary of Power template.  Exactly what could depend; for an example, a fear based emotional vampire could easily be justified as an emissary of a dragon (or other large and supernaturally scary critter).  A lust vampire would probably fit better under, say, Aphrodite.  (Come to think of it... Aphrodite is married to Hephaestus, isn't she?  Which would make it rather easy to justify mechanical wings as an item of power...)

Also, combinations of the above could work too; for example, a standard lust-based WCV might have gotten herself beholden to some sort of air-elemental Power, ending up with an Emissary of Power template (and wings thereto appertaining).
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: admiralducksauce on October 11, 2011, 08:15:16 PM
So she'd be the scion of White Court and fae?  I wouldn't have a problem with that, plus it could provide all manner of backstory connections and trouble for the character.  She gets wings, you get story hooks to bring in vampires and fairies nearly any time you like.  I call that a win-win.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Llayne on October 11, 2011, 08:29:36 PM
Hmm... make her a White Court Virgin Changling. That'd give her the potential to choose her Fae heritage and 'banish' her demon or become a full WCV and loose her Fae powers.

Talk about walking a knife's edge, there'd be no 'safe' choice to become human.

"What kind of moster do you want to be when you grow up little Jenny?"
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: sinker on October 11, 2011, 08:37:47 PM
Meh, the easy way would be to choose one monster or the other, but one could banish both of them by being antithetical to their vampire nature and then choosing human over fey.

Of note I was assuming that the OP meant White court virgin changeling. Seems to me that the White court vampire has already made their choice.

And now I'm having visions of a White court vampire and a fey making a bet for some important plot device on which way their offspring will choose.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Raidensparx on October 12, 2011, 04:45:09 AM
I'd be wary of any player wanting to be both a pretty vampire AND a fae creature.  If only because Myspace is full of them.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Becq on October 13, 2011, 12:10:36 AM
My take on the way canon metaphysics work wouldn't allow this.  In both cases (WCV and Fae) one part must be a full 'monster' of the appropriate type and the other parent a human.  The child is born with a Choice, and once the choice is made becomes one or the other, with all vestiges of the non-Chosen lineage permanently lost. 

That said, mechanically I don't see any problem, so long as you take all of the advantages along with the all of the disadvantages of both.  So, for example, the resulting High Concept would have to refer to both lineages, and could be compelled based on either (Fae must speak the truth, for example).  Also, The Catch should be True Emotion, as well as "iron and the like".

Of course, your mileage may vary...
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: LordDraqo on October 13, 2011, 12:22:18 AM
My take would be to create a Changeling whose fey parent was a winged entity that had emotional incitement power (an angel?) and go from there. Hmmmm, I might just do that.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on October 13, 2011, 01:47:28 AM
Unless I've been grossly misreading things, angels are not remotely fae.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Raidensparx on October 13, 2011, 02:13:17 AM
Angels are servants of the White God, and powerful to the point that Dresden looking at one with his sight would have screwed him up permanently.  And the Fae are terrified of an angel interfering with them.  Not even Mab screws around with them.

Angels are not Fae.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: sinker on October 13, 2011, 05:52:36 PM
My take on the way canon metaphysics work wouldn't allow this.  In both cases (WCV and Fae) one part must be a full 'monster' of the appropriate type and the other parent a human.  The child is born with a Choice, and once the choice is made becomes one or the other, with all vestiges of the non-Chosen lineage permanently lost. 

I would wonder then what you would think would happen if a white court vampire and a fey mated? I don't see any physical reason why they wouldn't conceive (other than the normal ones). What would that child be like?
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Tedronai on October 13, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
Angels are servants of the White God, and powerful to the point that Dresden looking at one with his sight would have screwed him up permanently.  And the Fae are terrified of an angel interfering with them.  Not even Mab screws around with them.

Angels are not Fae.

Mab is said to, personally, be about on par with one of the Archangels.  And Dresden looking on her with his Sight very nearly DID screw him up permanently.  She only neglects to screw around with them because A) she would have little or nothing to gain from doing so, and B) she's smarter than that.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Raidensparx on October 13, 2011, 08:12:59 PM
Another point to be made, aren't the bodies Fae use in the mortal realm just ectoplasm?  Stuff that disappears after they're done with it?  Unless it was a male fae, a female fae outside the Nevernever likely wouldn't be able to even BE impregnated, much less give birth to anything.

Anyway, I'm getting the feeling that White Court/Fae conception is something we're going to need a WoJ about, since right now we can only make the best of guesses or theories.  And the camp seems pretty soundly split between "not able to conceive", "child couldn't be both", or "child would totally be both."
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on October 13, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
Another point to be made, aren't the bodies Fae use in the mortal realm just ectoplasm?  Stuff that disappears after they're done with it?  Unless it was a male fae, a female fae outside the Nevernever likely wouldn't be able to even BE impregnated, much less give birth to anything.

Anyway, I'm getting the feeling that White Court/Fae conception is something we're going to need a WoJ about, since right now we can only make the best of guesses or theories.  And the camp seems pretty soundly split between "not able to conceive", "child couldn't be both", or "child would totally be both."

Depends on the fae in question.  Pure spirit beings, ectoplasm.  Gruffs and other physical beings, cells and dna and such.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: sinker on October 13, 2011, 10:07:42 PM
Another point to be made, aren't the bodies Fae use in the mortal realm just ectoplasm?  Stuff that disappears after they're done with it?  Unless it was a male fae, a female fae outside the Nevernever likely wouldn't be able to even BE impregnated, much less give birth to anything.

There's an example that may or may not be applicable to this question depending on how you feel about undertown.

In summer knight
(click to show/hide)
If you feel that undertown is a part of the physical world then there's an answer.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Raidensparx on October 13, 2011, 10:36:51 PM
There's an example that may or may not be applicable to this question depending on how you feel about undertown.

In summer knight
(click to show/hide)
If you feel that undertown is a part of the physical world then there's an answer.

Undertown has never really been explained, but considering just the grand scale of how many fae and other Nevernever creatures hang out there?  I have a hard time believing it's just part of the physical world.  Might be a place where the barrier between the two places is weaker, or undertown is an always open gate, or some other strange occurrence that has never been explained.  But yeah, it's hard to consider it still part of "our" world.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Becq on October 13, 2011, 10:45:34 PM
I would wonder then what you would think would happen if a white court vampire and a fey mated? I don't see any physical reason why they wouldn't conceive (other than the normal ones). What would that child be like?
I'm not entirely convinced that anything would happen at all.  While there is no concrete canon answer to this, I tend to feel that there are plenty of power-hungry WCVs and Fae out there, enough that if it was possible to create a hybrid WCV/Fae with the powers of both, then Dresden would be tripping over them.  I think that Fae and WCVs breed with humans because that is how they breed.  Why?  Because along with their mortality, they have lost that small spark of creation -- the ability to create new life -- that mortals have but that they can only steal from mortals.  Heck, WCVs can't even sustain their own life without the help of mortals, let alone create a new life.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: Clotho19 on October 13, 2011, 11:14:51 PM
Another point to be made, aren't the bodies Fae use in the mortal realm just ectoplasm?  Stuff that disappears after they're done with it?  Unless it was a male fae, a female fae outside the Nevernever likely wouldn't be able to even BE impregnated, much less give birth to anything.

In Small Favour, chapter 2 when harry kills the gruffs
Quote
"That corpse is still there. It's mostly a burned mess, but it didn't dissolve"
"Yeah," I said. "Faeries aren't wholly beings of the spirit world. They leave corpses behind."

So the fae are not made of ectoplasm, rather they have physical bodies and therefore should be no issue with mating people. Now whether they can mate with White Court, cannon hasn't stated either way. Personally i would allow it, but only in the case of a White Court Virgin/Changeling, becoming one of the Fae or a full White Court Vampire would be choosing one side and therefore losing the powers from the other.
Title: Re: White Court Fae?
Post by: LordDraqo on October 14, 2011, 02:57:55 AM
My take on the Fae and The White God are quite a bit different from that of many people. The Nevernever is more than just the Courts of the Sidhe, and there is no reason to assume that Asgard, Olympus, and the rest are not accessible if you know where to go and how. As for the question of angels, remember that bible speaks of the sons of god and the daughters of man having children.