ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Zaphodess on August 18, 2017, 04:05:12 PM
-
It's always been a bit of a mystery why Mab tried to save Marcone in Small Favor, even before he was actually attacked to boot, and I think I might have an explanation that's both logical and doesn't give Mr. Occam too much headache.
Maeve was involved.
Mab knew that Nemesis had gotten Maeve. She wasn't ready to kill her just yet, but she sure as hell kept tabs on what she was doing.
So, if Maeve was active in Chicago, Mab took notice too. Hence the snowfall. It couldn't have been obvious to her what exactly the plan was, so she decided to spend a favor to hire Harry and had the new Accord member under observation as well. Maeve wouldn't have liked that much, so she made sure that Titania knew about Harry becoming an Emissary of Winter, making him a legit target for her revenge. There might be someone Nemfected left in Summer after all, after Aurora. That's why the first move from Harry's pov was from Summer's Emissaries, trying to kill him. Ironicyally, it made Mab's job to convince him to take it up a lot easier (ok, maybe she engineered that herself, wouldn't be the first or the last time she puts Harry in a corner to get him to do her bidding). Anyway, Marcone was abducted by parties unknown to Mab. She said so explicitly when she showed Harry the snow model, so she didn't knew at that point in time who else was on the enemy team. Harry finds out and gets the Council involved and everything ...
Here comes Maeve's most likely move (imho): Catching the Archive at the train station (or maybe at the place she intended to stay) before Nicodemus could lay his hands on her.
Mab figured it out just in time. She realized that she had made a mistake in assuming that Marcone was the (primary) target Nemesis/her daughter was after. In a desperate attempt to prevent that, she sent the Hobbs, taking the risk that they killed the current host of the Archive. The Archive would have gone to the next person in line and been safe from Nemfection.
Harry (with Uriel's help) did the rest.
I suppose that conversation Ivy had with Mab was somewhat awkward.
-
Only catch I see off-hand is the timeline of Harry's hiring: The Gruff's already began attacking Harry as the Winter Emissary /Before/ Marcone was Taken in the first place, and long before Mab would have chosen an emissary for that reason.
Per SmF, Ch 7:
For example: Mab had said that Summer’s hit men were after me because Mab had chosen me to be her Emissary. But for that to be true, she had to have done it hours ago, at least a little while before the first crew of gruffs had attacked me at the Carpenter place.
And that had happened several hours before the bad guys grabbed Marcone.
Someone was running a game, all right. Someone was keeping secrets.
-
What if Mab thought that Harry was the target, initially, and choose him as emissary so that she could make her role more official?
-
Only catch I see off-hand is the timeline of Harry's hiring: The Gruff's already began attacking Harry as the Winter Emissary /Before/ Marcone was Taken in the first place, and long before Mab would have chosen an emissary for that reason.
Per SmF, Ch 7:
See now, this is why I always assumed she hired Anduriel and that's the 'small favor' WK Harry is actually repaying later(I know, I know. Supposedly it's from an ancient two places at once debt, but I don't remember the wording and I like this idea anyway) So Mab had already made the first play by asking Nic to challenge the new baron of Chicago/Unseelie mortal. Later she's pissed because Nic undermined her accords by kidnapping the neutral negotiator It's never said she was mad about the initial challenge, that was an accepted thing she hired an emissary to handle. The thing is, Harry's her hidden ace weapon, everybody's really, and she specifically had reason to throw together that pressure cooker of violence waiting to happen, She'd recently had her home attacked by one of the Fallen. And what's the result at the end of this book? The presumed accused end up dead and missing by the end. Coincidence? Meh, I don't believe in them.
-
What if Mab thought that Harry was the target, initially, and choose him as emissary so that she could make her role more official?
I think that would only but him at more risk, right? Being tapped as a Winter Emmisary is what let all the Summer hitters start coming after him in SK, no? It makes the whole thing more official but not in a helpful way that I see.
See now, this is why I always assumed she hired Anduriel and that's the 'small favor' WK Harry is actually repaying later(I know, I know. Supposedly it's from an ancient two places at once debt, but I don't remember the wording and I like this idea anyway) So Mab had already made the first play by asking Nic to challenge the new baron of Chicago/Unseelie mortal. Later she's pissed because Nic undermined her accords by kidnapping the neutral negotiator It's never said she was mad about the initial challenge, that was an accepted thing she hired an emissary to handle. The thing is, Harry's her hidden ace weapon, everybody's really, and she specifically had reason to throw together that pressure cooker of violence waiting to happen, She'd recently had her home attacked by one of the Fallen. And what's the result at the end of this book? The presumed accused end up dead and missing by the end. Coincidence? Meh, I don't believe in them.
I think the catch on that one is that she stated outright when she "hired" Harry in SmF that she did not know "who took Marcone". If she already knew it was Marcone she wouldnt have been able to state it so plainly, Id think.
Personally, I think Mab's motivation toward Marcone in SmF has nothing to do with Harry at all (in the "he's not really the center of the universe" theme) and has more to do with Marcone being Vadderung's pet project in much the same way Harry is Mab's.
-
Only catch I see off-hand is the timeline of Harry's hiring: The Gruff's already began attacking Harry as the Winter Emissary /Before/ Marcone was Taken in the first place, and long before Mab would have chosen an emissary for that reason.
That's actually been the reason I started considering Maeve, cause she could lie about Harry being Winter's Emissary and she might also have been able to disregard bargains and Fae restrictions.
Another possible angle: We might be making assumptions about Summer's motives. Sure, Titania wanted Harry dead because he killed her daughter. What if it wasn't her only motive? She could have had information about Nicodemus' plans that Mab didn't have. Mab was ready to kill Ivy rather than let the Archive fall into the hands of the Denarians (and indirectly to Nemesis). Titania might have been ready to let Marcone rot and kill Harry in order to prevent that as well. Revenge was just the cherry on top. Fighting a move by Nemesis might be enough to let a Faerie Queen get around the restriction about killing mortals.
-
That's actually been the reason I started considering Maeve, cause she could lie about Harry being Winter's Emissary and she might also have been able to disregard bargains and Fae restrictions.
So if Im following you, you're no longer saying that Mab hired Harry to flush out Maeve's plan, but rather that Maeve Lied to Summer to sick them on Harry's trail, long before Mab got involved? That seems like the sort of thing Mab should have noticed, when it became apparent that Summer was targeting him for no apparent reason but coincidentally only hours before she herself decided to hire him.
Im not giving up on it yet, but this seems to be unraveling a bit.
Another possible angle: We might be making assumptions about Summer's motives. Sure, Titania wanted Harry dead because he killed her daughter. What if it wasn't her only motive? She could have had information about Nicodemus' plans that Mab didn't have. Mab was ready to kill Ivy rather than let the Archive fall into the hands of the Denarians (and indirectly to Nemesis). Titania might have been ready to let Marcone rot and kill Harry in order to prevent that as well. Revenge was just the cherry on top. Fighting a move by Nemesis might be enough to let a Faerie Queen get around the restriction about killing mortals.
So if Im following you, now you are suggesting that Mab was responsible for the attack at the train station rather than Maeve?
-
So if Im following you, you're no longer saying that Mab hired Harry to flush out Maeve's plan, but rather that Maeve Lied to Summer to sick them on Harry's trail, long before Mab got involved? That seems like the sort of thing Mab should have noticed, when it became apparent that Summer was targeting him for no apparent reason but coincidentally only hours before she herself decided to hire him.
Im not giving up on it yet, but this seems to be unraveling a bit.
I was starting from the bad guys problem: The goal was to get the Archive, not (just) Marcone. The chosen method was to make it an Accords matter. Harry was the most likely to get the Archive as mediator. Problem was: Harry wouldn't have done anything if it was just Marcone on the line. They needed to motivate Harry to become involved.
Mab would have been motivated to become involved if
a) Maeve was involved (nothing good could come from it)
b) Thorned Namshiel was involved
c) it was somehow clearly a Nemesis-driven plot
d) she cared enough about her Accords to protect the new guy
e) she had an interest in Marcone because of Vadderung in one way or another
f) she had an interest in Marcone himself - maybe a bargain with him
...
b) is unlikely imo, because she had no idea who abducted Marcone. d) isn't strong enough in that instance, cause the Accords don't protect you from conflict, they just set down the rules for how it's got to be played. If Marcone can't protect himself or make sure he has allies - his problem. e) and or f) are quite possible, but we don't have enough facts to prove it. My WAG tried to address the possibility of a) because it is also an instance of c) as Maeve was Nemfected and her mother knew it, tried to persuade her to let herself be cured, Maeve didn't seem to like the idea... I thought it was logical that Mab wouldn't let her run around completely free, unsupervised and not under observation during that time.
Mab didn't know the details of what the Enemy really wanted to achieve. So she was likely to call in a favor from Harry in order to get some more information. But: Harry had the right to refuse if he didn't like it, and he could be expected to refuse to save Marcone. Getting Summer involved achieved that he was motivated to accept the offer. This would have served Mab's interests as well as the Enemy group (including Maeve if she was on board). So it's a coin toss as to who managed to do it in what manner. But I think Mab is the least likely, she can't tell a direct lie and she'd probably have preferred another way to motivate Harry. Summer trying to kill him did not improve the chances of him being successful.
Technically, Summer shouldn't have been able to attack Harry before he was officially Winter's Emissary. He had the right to refuse, so not even Mab's intention to recruit him as such was good enough. But I think the Queens can make mistakes if they truly believe something. The initial attacks might have been possible if Titania believed him to be the Emissary already (a lie fed by Maeve to one of Titania's spies maybe or something Nic orchestrated). Titania either had very bad information or very good information (knowing and reacting to a great danger to reality) or the initial attacks wouldn't have been possible.
So if Im following you, now you are suggesting that Mab was responsible for the attack at the train station rather than Maeve?
That's actually a fact iirc. She admitted to it in the hospital chapel.
-
I was starting from the bad guys problem: The goal was to get the Archive, not (just) Marcone. The chosen method was to make it an Accords matter. Harry was the most likely to get the Archive as mediator. Problem was: Harry wouldn't have done anything if it was just Marcone on the line. They needed to motivate Harry to become involved.
Um, that's exactly what he Did, he called the Archive as a mediator over Marcone. He might not have gotten involved if the (obvious) enemy hadnt been the Denarians (whom he hates on a personal level), but
[/quote]
Mab didn't know the details of what the Enemy really wanted to achieve. So she was likely to call in a favor from Harry in order to get some more information. But: Harry had the right to refuse if he didn't like it, and he could be expected to refuse to save Marcone. Getting Summer involved achieved that he was motivated to accept the offer. This would have served Mab's interests as well as the Enemy group (including Maeve if she was on board). So it's a coin toss as to who managed to do it in what manner. But I think Mab is the least likely, she can't tell a direct lie and she'd probably have preferred another way to motivate Harry. Summer trying to kill him did not improve the chances of him being successful.
[/quote]
So you theory at this point is that MAB gave Summer a heads up that she was going to recruit Harry, in order for Harry to feel pressured enough to accept the Job. How and Why would she do so before anyone else had made any moves to do anything? What is her motivation to kick the ant-hill in the first place? I thought you were initially suggesting that it was Maeve?
Technically, Summer shouldn't have been able to attack Harry before he was officially Winter's Emissary.
Not true. SmF stated that they were able to track his Fire Magic (specifically the Fire) becuase he'd melded it with Lily's Fire Spell in PG during that whole Wellspring attack thing. It was why Mad took away his Rod and memory of Fire Magic. His status as Emmisary had nothing to do with their ability to track him, only their ability and/or motivation to actually go after him.
He had the right to refuse, so not even Mab's intention to recruit him as such was good enough. But I think the Queens can make mistakes if they truly believe something. The initial attacks might have been possible if Titania believed him to be the Emissary already (a lie fed by Maeve to one of Titania's spies maybe or something Nic orchestrated). Titania either had very bad information or very good information (knowing and reacting to a great danger to reality) or the initial attacks wouldn't have been possible.
That still doesnt the fact that the first event in this whole escapaede was Titania's. Your original theory had that reversed.
That's actually a fact iirc. She admitted to it in the hospital chapel.
She never admits it, or even anything Id call an implied admission; though Harry does jump to the that conclusion and asked her why she did it.
Regardless, you JUST said you thought Maeve was actually behind the Hobs. Which is it, and Why?
-
I think that would only but him at more risk, right? Being tapped as a Winter Emmisary is what let all the Summer hitters start coming after him in SK, no? It makes the whole thing more official but not in a helpful way that I see.
I think the catch on that one is that she stated outright when she "hired" Harry in SmF that she did not know "who took Marcone". If she already knew it was Marcone she wouldnt have been able to state it so plainly, Id think.
Personally, I think Mab's motivation toward Marcone in SmF has nothing to do with Harry at all (in the "he's not really the center of the universe" theme) and has more to do with Marcone being Vadderung's pet project in much the same way Harry is Mab's.
It is not helpful for Harry, but that was not a major concern to her. She loves to test his limits. And the added pressure of being both a target and an emissary could have pushed Harry to accept her WK offer. A more pressing concern would be to be seen as following the letter of her accord.
-
So you theory at this point is that MAB gave Summer a heads up that she was going to recruit Harry, in order for Harry to feel pressured enough to accept the Job. How and Why would she do so before anyone else had made any moves to do anything? What is her motivation to kick the ant-hill in the first place? I thought you were initially suggesting that it was Maeve?
Ahem, nope. That's not what I said. I said she was the least likely of a number of possible candidates. I am exploring possibilities here, not proposing one single WAG. ;)
Not true. SmF stated that they were able to track his Fire Magic (specifically the Fire) becuase he'd melded it with Lily's Fire Spell in PG during that whole Wellspring attack thing. It was why Mad took away his Rod and memory of Fire Magic. His status as Emmisary had nothing to do with their ability to track him, only their ability and/or motivation to actually go after him. That still doesnt the fact that the first event in this whole escapaede was Titania's. Your original theory had that reversed.
Again, not what I wrote. I was talking about attacking, not their ability to track him.
She never admits it, or even anything Id call an implied admission; though Harry does jump to the that conclusion and asked her why she did it.
Regardless, you JUST said you thought Maeve was actually behind the Hobs. Which is it, and Why?
No, I didn't say I thought it was Maeve behind the Hobbs, I said it was Mab. Am I that bad at expressing myself? I was extra careful to use names instead of pronouns ...
Mab never admits to the Hobbs attack, but she didn't deny it either and she answered Harry's question why she did it. It's also made clear in the text that the Hobbs were Mab's creatures. As her reasoning makes sense imo, I have no doubt about it that Mab was indeed behind it.
-
Ahem, nope. That's not what I said. I said she was the least likely of a number of possible candidates. I am exploring possibilities here, not proposing one single WAG. ;)Again, not what I wrote. I was talking about attacking, not their ability to track him.
No, I didn't say I thought it was Maeve behind the Hobbs, I said it was Mab. Am I that bad at expressing myself? I was extra careful to use names instead of pronouns ...
You said Maeve was behind the attack at the train station (ie the Hobbs, no?) But then right after that you say that Mab sent the Hobbs in response to the attack at the train station. So I am very confused.
Mab never admits to the Hobbs attack, but she didn't deny it either and she answered Harry's question why she did it. It's also made clear in the text that the Hobbs were Mab's creatures. As her reasoning makes sense imo, I have no doubt about it that Mab was indeed behind it.
It made it clear that they were /winter/ creatures, not specifically Mab's as opposed to Maeve or anyone else that can leverage Winter creatures, theoretically up to and including whomever was giving orders to those Winter Spiders in TC.
-
You said Maeve was behind the attack at the train station (ie the Hobbs, no?) But then right after that you say that Mab sent the Hobbs in response to the attack at the train station. So I am very confused. It made it clear that they were /winter/ creatures, not specifically Mab's as opposed to Maeve or anyone else that can leverage Winter creatures, theoretically up to and including whomever was giving orders to those Winter Spiders in TC.
Ok, I guess I didn't phrase that one very well. I thought that maybe Maeve had planned something on the train station or at the place Ivy intended to stay. An abduction or something like that. Mab sending the Hobbs could have been a last-ditch attempt to thwart her daughter's scheme.
The reason I think this might be the case is that the Hobbs attack was awfully gauche for Mab's standards. It smacks of desperation and not much time to plan.
-
Ok, I guess I didn't phrase that one very well. I thought that maybe Maeve had planned something on the train station or at the place Ivy intended to stay. An abduction or something like that. Mab sending the Hobbs could have been a last-ditch attempt to thwart her daughter's scheme.
The reason I think this might be the case is that the Hobbs attack was awfully gauche for Mab's standards. It smacks of desperation and not much time to plan.
Ah, kk, Im with you now.
I dont know, it feels like a simpler explanation that it was Maeve behind the Hobs (ie Awfully Gauche) and was working counter to Mab interests (in general or for something specific we've not seen), who in turn didnt fully explain to Harry because she didnt want dissension in the ranks to be known. This was the novel she first had to start talking through Grimalkin, so she's aware of Maeve's Nemfection.
-
Maeve may have tried to get Summer to kill Harry early by claiming that he was the emissary; I can see that happening, and it almost worked. It would have, actually, and might've even had the added bonus of killing Molly and Charity during the first attack.
Mab might have then made his emissary status official to prevent Summer from seeing division within Winter. It seems to me that the Fae courts take great pains to posture and appear stronger than they are, especially to one another. If it looks like Maeve and Mab aren't on the same page, then Summer might perceive that as weakness, and strike, which Mab can't afford—her Knight is off the table, so the appearance that her Lady is working against her might be too tempting to pass up. I do think that Mab knows for a fact that Maeve is infected at this point; she's speaking entirely through Cait Sith, for the first time (as far as I recall; I'm finishing my annual reread, and have only hit Proven Guilty), and I've always understood her anger to be because she realized her daughter had been taken and there was no turning back. I figure that she didn't move against Maeve officially because (A) she was her daughter and didn't want to hurt her if possible, and (B) she wanted to project a unified front for as long as she could. She did push for Dresden to accept pretty hard in this one, harder than she had in the past, and may have dropped any pretenses and ordered him to kill Maeve as soon as possible if he had signed up.
In my opinion, Small Favor has almost as many unanswered questions as Proven Guilty because of all this kind of thing.
-
I'm of the opinion that Mab got involved in Small Favor to push Harry toward DemonReach, to become the Warden there. I think she knows they'll need some of the inmates in the BAT coming
-
Mab was doing what she always does. She takes a problem and makes it an opportunity to solve other problems.
-
Mab was doing what she always does. She takes a problem and makes it an opportunity to solve other problems.
Exactly
-
I'd just like to point out that "Bombshells" saw Winter move to stop the Fomor from making a treaty with the svartalves... in an event that also just so happened to help save Marcone from an assassination attempt.
-
I'd just like to point out that "Bombshells" saw Winter move to stop the Fomor from making a treaty with the svartalves... in an event that also just so happened to help save Marcone from an assassination attempt.
Winter?
And I think the Svartalves would have immediately broken the treaty due to the insult offered by the Fomor.
-
*chuckles*
[OT]
It's always funny to see the names Maeve and Mab.
"Maeve" is the pronounced form of the name. "Medb"/"Medhbh" is the written form. It's an old Irish name meaning "She, who intoxicates."/"Intoxicating" I was thinking of using it as my daughter's middle name, if I ever have one.
"Mab" is the written form of the name. "Maav" is the pronounced - very close to how James Marsters pronounces Maeve's name as Lloyd Slate in Summer Knight. The name means "Lovable", which I personally think Mab is.
[/OT]
I do think that Mab knows for a fact that Maeve is infected at this point; she's speaking entirely through Cait Sith, for the first time (as far as I recall;
Mab is speaking through Grimalkin. Harry meets Cait Sith in Cold Days for the first time.
It's always been a bit of a mystery why Mab tried to save Marcone in Small Favor, even before he was actually attacked to boot, and I think I might have an explanation that's both logical and doesn't give Mr. Occam too much headache.
Breaking Unseelie Accords' rules of engagement is basically throwing the bird to Mab. It's an insult to her personally and an insult to her office. As we have learned in Cold Days, she can swallow her pride as long as there are no witnesses, but if there are witnesses, she won't let such an insult stand.
I suppose that conversation Ivy had with Mab was somewhat awkward.
Mab: "There was a high risk of the Archive being taken over by outsiders."
Ivy: "Your counteractions were perfectly adequate, given the risk."
Mab: "I was certain that you would understand. I'm delighted that Dresden made it in time."
- The End -
Although, yes, we might consider Hobbs' attack as a play by Maeve. This part never get's properly explained. Ivy suspects that Harry was using the Hobbs. So since they don't have the emblem of the person who sent them branded on their foreheads, we can speculate. This actually might be a similar play as we've seen later in Turn Coat where the Outsiders/Black Council were using two agencies who sort-of got into each others' way. But in that case the Hobbs weren't sent to kill the Archive but to abduct her. This would make the plot a bit thicker.
There are no indications of actions prior to snowball fight at the Carpenter House, so it is very difficult to speculate. At least I'm not aware of any. "Heorot" features Gard + Dresden action [ interpret that however you will >.> ] making it more likely, that Gard will trust and ask Dresden for help in Small Favor. "It’s My Birthday Too" can't be connected to Small Favor from what I remember.
It's possible, that the prequel to this will play out in the short story Mr. Butcher has planned with Hendricks PoV.
Mab has been trying to woo Harry into taking the place of Lloyd Slate as Winter Knight
...
She is a Grand Chessmaster at playing people against each other.
...
John Marcone is a heavy hitter in the mortal world, with enough influence to affect some of Mab's plans. She would have kept tabs on him, his friends, and his enemies.
...
Mab understands the love hate / hate relationship between Harry Dresden and John Marcone. She has been using these dynamics to get what she wants out of both of them.
...
Well... here I'd be more thinking in terms:
Mab jumping in for the Leanansidhe while Lea is a Sidhe-cicle.
Leanansidhe training Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter [ so why is she Molly and not another Maggie? ] in Harry's stead.
Just as Mab is shaping Dresden; she had to prepare a stand-in protector of Chicago once she manages to talk Dresden into accepting the Winter Knight mantle, since his duties as Winter Knight would somewhat limit the time he is in Chicago. We know that while Marcone is a mobster he also has rules.
Here it is very difficult to find out what the actual conflict between Summer and Winter was. We just know, that it played out in Marcone's kidnapping to which Ivy's kidnapping got added later as Nicodemus' version of a DLC.
Here we should consider Titania working together with the Denarians. Motives as of yet unknown.
-
Winter?
Well, Leanansidhe.
And I think the Svartalves would have immediately broken the treaty due to the insult offered by the Fomor.
None of Leanansidhe, Lara Raith, or "Lord Froggy" seemed to think so, the formor two sending agents to stop the signing itself, while the latter feeling secure in murdering all the Svartalves' guests after the fact (though admittedly, Froggy completely underestimated how upset Etri would be). Still, even if the treaty was doomed to fail from the start, it only makes it all the more suspicious that Molly would have been sent to stop it. Lara would have plenty of motive to stop whatever shenanigans the Fomor were up to in her city, but Lea...?
Actually, now I wonder if Marcone had attended the signing on purpose to bait the Fomor into planning an attack. If he hadn't been there, the signing would have been smooth sailing, no? Making it all the more difficult for Thomas or Molly to interfere...
And while I'm at it, I'll just throw another quote out from Small Favor...
“Come on, Harry,” Thomas said. “You can’t really think that Mab’s motives and plans are that direct, that cut-and-dried.” He adjusted the setting of the Hummer’s wipers. “She wants Marcone for a reason. You might not be doing him any favors by saving him on Mab’s behalf.”
Does this imply Marcone became indebted to Mab in some capacity after SF?
-
Well, Leanansidhe.
Good point
None of Leanansidhe, Lara Raith, or "Lord Froggy" seemed to think so, the formor two sending agents to stop the signing itself, while the latter feeling secure in murdering all the Svartalves' guests after the fact (though admittedly, Froggy completely underestimated how upset Etri would be). Still, even if the treaty was doomed to fail from the start, it only makes it all the more suspicious that Molly would have been sent to stop it. Lara would have plenty of motive to stop whatever shenanigans the Fomor were up to in her city, but Lea...?
I understand, but seeing as how they treated and reacted to Molly's actions, I still believe they would have done everything they could have to have broken it.
Actually, now I wonder if Marcone had attended the signing on purpose to bait the Fomor into planning an attack. If he hadn't been there, the signing would have been smooth sailing, no? Making it all the more difficult for Thomas or Molly to interfere...
And while I'm at it, I'll just throw another quote out from Small Favor...
Does this imply Marcone became indebted to Mab in some capacity after SF?
I'm not sure someone can be forced to accept a debt like that when not asked for aid. On the other hand, Gard and Hendricks incurred debt to Harry for asking, and Marcone WOULD take that on, I believe.
-
\
Here comes Maeve's most likely move (imho): Catching the Archive at the train station (or maybe at the place she intended to stay) before Nicodemus could lay his hands on her.
Mab figured it out just in time. She realized that she had made a mistake in assuming that Marcone was the (primary) target Nemesis/her daughter was after. In a desperate attempt to prevent that, she sent the Hobbs, taking the risk that they killed the current host of the Archive. The Archive would have gone to the next person in line and been safe from Nemfection.
Harry (with Uriel's help) did the rest.
I suppose that conversation Ivy had with Mab was somewhat awkward.
Ummm.... Who next in line? The, "Archive," is passed down mother to daughter. What's more, it is passed down from mother to daughter during the birth of the daughter(Darkness style), leaving the last archive an empty vessel. This is why Ive's mother is in a, "persistent vegetative state," and why Ive, "knows everything my mother was, and what she thought about me." ... In other words, if Ive had died, it would have been the end of the archive forever, because there would be no one for, "the archive," to progress into.
-
I see it as he is a member of the Accords, she has a need for Marcone in the future war I am guessing, she needed to show she still was in control and it was a major move by Nemesis and it needed to be countered by throwing the human, mystical, cosmic, monkey wrench..... Harry Dresden into the mix.
-
Mab understands the love hate / hate relationship between Harry Dresden and John Marcone.
I still like to believe there is some father son relationship going on with a temporal spin on things in the mix. Harry and Murphy(Mab) has a child that becomes one John Marcone. Or at least in some way Harry and John Marcone are closely related.
Stormfront and Dresden Files series begins with Son paying tribute to father.
For Debbie Chester, who taught me everything I really needed to know about writing. And for my father, who taught me everything I really needed to know about living.
I miss you dad.
This is then followed closely by multiple 'father' references during the Harry/Marcone encounter.
Godfather reference=Gangster, crime bosses
Marcone seemed somewhat put off by my attitude. Maybe I was supposed to be holding my hat in my hand, but I had never really liked Francis Ford Coppola, and I didn't have a Godfather. (I do have a Godmother, and she is, inevitably perhaps, a faery. But that's another story.)
Grandfather reference
He wrinkled up his face as if carefully considering what he would say, and taking my well-being into account with grandfatherly concern. "How much would it set me back to have you not investigate something?"
Father reference
"All right, then," he said, smoothly, and as though nothing had happened. "I won't try to force my offer on you, Mister Dresden." The car was slowing down as it approached my building, and Hendricks pulled over in front of it. "But let me offer you some advice?"
He had dropped the father-talking-to-son act, and spoke in a calm and patient voice.
I've spinned this post off to another thread of its own.
-
Ummm.... Who next in line? The, "Archive," is passed down mother to daughter. What's more, it is passed down from mother to daughter during the birth of the daughter(Darkness style), leaving the last archive an empty vessel. This is why Ive's mother is in a, "persistent vegetative state," and why Ive, "knows everything my mother was, and what she thought about me." ... In other words, if Ive had died, it would have been the end of the archive forever, because there would be no one for, "the archive," to progress into.
That's not how it was explained in the books. Ivy was a bit of an anomaly. Her mother didn't want to take on the Archive so attempted suicide. Usually they have a lifetime to build up their own personality and memories that help shield them from the memories of all the others. Ivy doesn't have that buffer. Thus the worry that Luccio stated.
-
Ah, kk, Im with you now.
I dont know, it feels like a simpler explanation that it was Maeve behind the Hobs (ie Awfully Gauche) and was working counter to Mab interests (in general or for something specific we've not seen), who in turn didnt fully explain to Harry because she didnt want dissension in the ranks to be known. This was the novel she first had to start talking through Grimalkin, so she's aware of Maeve's Nemfection.
Maeve as the one behind the Hobbs attack doesn't sit right with me. They didn't pose a serious threat to Ivy at all, so it had to be about sending a message, perhaps one that could not be easily sent in another way. Mab sending a warning to Ivy to be careful seems most likely at this point.
-
Maeve as the one behind the Hobbs attack doesn't sit right with me. They didn't pose a serious threat to Ivy at all, so it had to be about sending a message, perhaps one that could not be easily sent in another way. Mab sending a warning to Ivy to be careful seems most likely at this point.
Yea she all but says the Archive in Nemesis's hands was not acceptable, she of course uses 'enemy' and I remember the old convo's on it before we knew of N.