Twelve Months, chapter one

[g33k]

Yes, of course. His pain and state of mind are well written. I hope. The other option is that Jim's writing is a mess. 

Harry is a mess.

Jim told us that he wasn't planning on 12M in his original plans, but has come to realize that he needs to write the process of Grieving Harry, Stressed-to-mental-unwellness Harry, PTSD Harry.  As Mira says, that's what we're reading... that's (very much, for very many who go through it) exactly what it's like.

I think Jim wasn't exactly clear how Harry sees things, how he acts, on the far side of that process.
Jim needed to write Harry's experience, to find out about Harry for the rest of the series.

[Mira]

Harry is a mess.

Jim told us that he wasn't planning on 12M in his original plans, but has come to realize that he needs to write the process of Grieving Harry, Stressed-to-mental-unwellness Harry, PTSD Harry.  As Mira says, that's what we're reading... that's (very much, for very many who go through it) exactly what it's like.

I think Jim wasn't exactly clear how Harry sees things, how he acts, on the far side of that process.
Jim needed to write Harry's experience, to find out about Harry for the rest of the series.

Exactly, and this time Jim nailed it, at least for the first chapter.

[g33k]

Exactly, and this time Jim nailed it, at least for the first chapter. 

I think so, too.

OTOH, it's noteworthy how many people -- in this thread! -- are reading the chapter and seeing "sloppy writing" as their first (or at least equally-likely) explanation.

I suspect the "general DF reading population" will have a similar experience.

[Mira]

  One more point, the Micky Mouse alarm clock, maybe there is a very simple explanation, and the simplest one, is the true one .
  Instead of turning ourselves inside out as to how the clock could have survived the fire, and yes, these unlikely things happen in disasters, maybe Harry just went out and bought himself a new one?  They still make Micky Mouse alarm clocks and they are not all that expensive, even Harry can afford one.

[g33k]

... how the clock could have survived the fire, and yes, these unlikely things happen in disasters

 maybe Harry just went out and bought himself a new one?  They still make Micky Mouse alarm clocks and they are not all that expensive, even Harry can afford one.

Both of these also occurred to me!
TBH, either seems an entirely-valid explanation within the context of the story.
Also, Molly might have got one, or one of the Alphas, or any other of his friends who had a chance to notice it.

[Dina]

I would like a short story about the cleaning system realizing there was a fire that could not been stopped and making the decision of saving as many small items as they can, knowing that the Za-Lord would appreciate that.  Harry repaid them with pizza and some extra bread and milk or whatever. It's only he had no time to write it in the Files.
BTW, perhaps that tells us when Harry is writing the Files. He would not write them while he has his cleaning service because that would be a risk, what if that is considered telling? He cannot tell anyone about them.

[Mira]

I would like a short story about the cleaning system realizing there was a fire that could not been stopped and making the decision of saving as many small items as they can, knowing that the Za-Lord would appreciate that.  Harry repaid them with pizza and some extra bread and milk or whatever. It's only he had no time to write it in the Files.
BTW, perhaps that tells us when Harry is writing the Files. He would not write them while he has his cleaning service because that would be a risk, what if that is considered telling? He cannot tell anyone about them.

The thing is, Harry never says it's his old clock.  Could be, could be that it was salvaged and stored by maybe Mab who knew Harry was only mostly dead.  Or was kept by someone wanting a keepsake, i.e. Molly because she thinks he is dead, or even Murphy.  Or because he identifies with the Micky Mouse clock for what ever reason, or just likes them, Harry bought a new one.  However whether it is the original or not, isn't all that important.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Just a head's up, I'm not putting spoilers on anything.

One statement; well actually two, that Harry makes that I found interesting was Harry's understanding or need to maintain a schedule to keep some kind of grip on himself.  I think this can come from two sources.  One was how Harry fell apart after Susan was infected by the Red Court.  Harry was a complete mess at the beginning and through much of Summer Knight.  He doesn't want to fall into that pattern again.  The second source that drives Harry is he is a father and recognizes his responsibility to Maggie, but he has also taken on other responsibilities as a protector of people around him.  Being the Wizard of Chicago, whatever that will come to mean.  I know from my own experience that focusing on a job at hand, putting food on the table and carrying out other responsibilities; while it doesn't help you heal from a tragedy, it can help prevent you from sliding further into despair, at least to a degree.

The second statement was that Harry recognizes that he will heal because he has done so before.  At the same time, even though Harry knows he will recover, it doesn't make what he is going through any easier.  Grief, and beating yourself up, wondering about what you could have done differently, are an incredible bitch to get through, as many of you know.  Harry doesn't wonder what he could have done differently in this chapter, but he always does that and there is no reason to think he won't do so again.

For those reasons I found this chapter to be spot on.  About the alarm clock, there are multiple possible answers to that one.  He bought a new one, someone else got Harry a new one, the old one had been down in the basement lab and without thinking Harry threw it in with his other stuff that he buried in Lea's garden, the when police and FBI invaded his place in Changes.  In fact, Lea should have returned all of that other stuff to Harry by now.  It's a very small issue, both literally and figurately, to concern me.

Side note: I have a feeling we may get another chapter or two pre-released before the book arrives.  Jim is pretty good at writing set up chapters that won't spoil the rest of the book if you read them early.  I won't be surprised if these preview chapters end just before Harry's first date with Lara.  I remember that for Cold Days we received several early release chapters the ended just before Harry's birthday party started in Arctis Tor. 

[Dina]

I agree with all your statements.

[Mira]

One statement; well actually two, that Harry makes that I found interesting was Harry's understanding or need to maintain a schedule to keep some kind of grip on himself.  I think this can come from two sources.  One was how Harry fell apart after Susan was infected by the Red Court.  Harry was a complete mess at the beginning and through much of Summer Knight.  He doesn't want to fall into that pattern again.  The second source that drives Harry is he is a father and recognizes his responsibility to Maggie, but he has also taken on other responsibilities as a protector of people around him.  Being the Wizard of Chicago, whatever that will come to mean.  I know from my own experience that focusing on a job at hand, putting food on the table and carrying out other responsibilities; while it doesn't help you heal from a tragedy, it can help prevent you from sliding further into despair, at least to a degree.

I think your last sentence is more to the point, any one of us who has been though the experience knows this.  The world moves on whether one likes it or not, and isn't going to wait on you.  You either keep going or be left behind, it may not help you heal from a tragedy, but it gives you something else to hang on to besides your pain and that helps.

The second statement was that Harry recognizes that he will heal because he has done so before.  At the same time, even though Harry knows he will recover, it doesn't make what he is going through any easier.  Grief, and beating yourself up, wondering about what you could have done differently, are an incredible bitch to get through, as many of you know.  Harry doesn't wonder what he could have done differently in this chapter, but he always does that and there is no reason to think he won't do so again.

Still early in the process, it is a bitch to get through, and can still rear it's ugly head years later.  However as time goes on, it gets easier to cope with what happened and hopefully forgive himself and the dead.  So yeah, I also expect Harry will have PTSD flashbacks until the end of the series, but as he heals he will finally accept to some degree.

For those reasons I found this chapter to be spot on.  About the alarm clock, there are multiple possible answers to that one.  He bought a new one, someone else got Harry a new one, the old one had been down in the basement lab and without thinking Harry threw it in with his other stuff that he buried in Lea's garden, the when police and FBI invaded his place in Changes.  In fact, Lea should have returned all of that other stuff to Harry by now.  It's a very small issue, both literally and figurately, to concern me.

Totally agree.

Side note: I have a felling we may get another chapter or two preleased before the book arrives.  Jim is pretty good at writing set up chapters that won't spoil the rest of the book if you read them early.  I won't be surprised if these preview chapters end just before Harry's first date with Lara.  I remember that for Cold Days we received several early release chapters the ended just before Harry's birthday party started in Arctis Tor.

I think what will ultimately make or break the relationship is how Lara handles Harry's grief.  It's more complicated then you think, good intentions are not enough, timing is important, where the person on the scale of the receiving end of the process is important, and what may seem like the right thing to say or do for someone, could be taken totally wrong by the one grieving.. Conversely Lara may have to cut Harry a lot more slack than she is used to, because his responses may not seem rational, could even be offensive.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I think what will ultimately make or break the relationship is how Lara handles Harry's grief.  It's more complicated then you think, good intentions are not enough, timing is important, where the person on the recieving end of the process is important, and what may seem like the right thing to say or do could be taken totally wrong by the one grieving.. Conversely Lara may have to cut Harry a lot more slack than she is used to, because his responses may not seem rational, could even be offensive.

I hadn't thought about how Lara will react to Harry dealing with grief, other than trying to use it to gain some kind of advantage over him.  Lara is the closest thing to being immortal as a flesh and blood being can get.  Though she can be killed, she barely ages.  I wonder if she has ever felt grief herself.   

Do White Court vamps ever feel and suffer through grief in their own extended lives?  To feel grief you probably have to have empathy, otherwise you wouldn't feel anything.  But most White Court vamps seem to revel in their own psychopathy, if the conversations we've he have heard with Lord Raith, Madeline Raith, Madrigal Raith and Vito Malvora are any indication.  Empathy just isn't their thing.

Lara is smarter than the average bear, which means she should have a greater understanding of what Harry is going through; at least on an intellectual basis.  Lara might also be a little closer to having a normal personality than most white court vampires, though only by a tiny sliver.  Thomas is the real outlier in his family in this regard.

So I think I agree with you Mira.  The way Lara reacts to Harry's grief should be very important in shaping how their relationship will progress.

[Mira]

I hadn't thought about how Lara will react to Harry dealing with grief, other than trying to use it to gain some kind of advantage over him.  Lara is the closest thing to being immortal as a flesh and blood being can get.  Though she can be killed, she barely ages.  I wonder if she has ever felt grief herself.   

She feels something for Thomas, if one can judge by her reactions in Peace Talks.

Do White Court vamps ever feel and suffer through grief in their own extended lives?  To feel grief you probably have to have empathy, otherwise you wouldn't feel anything.  But most White Court vamps seem to revel in their own psychopathy, if the conversations we've he have heard with Lord Raith, Madeline Raith, Madrigal Raith and Vito Malvora are any indication.  Empathy just isn't their thing.

You also need to be able to love.  The White Court feeds on emotion, is also burned by it, Harry's searing grief may make their relationship impossible.

Lara is smarter than the average bear, which means she should have a greater understanding of what Harry is going through; at least on an intellectual basis.  Lara might also be a little closer to having a normal personality than most white court vampires, though only by a tiny sliver.  Thomas is the real outlier in his family in this regard.

Yeah, but grief isn't something you can intellectualize, it comes from the gut in a torrent of emotions.  She might be able to feed off of them and give him relief in that way.. Or his grief is so powerful it potentually could burn her to ashes.

[g33k]

I expect the Winter-knight X Whamp-princess engagement to bring Harry & Lara closer together...

Not because either of them want it, but because they need a closer alliance to figure out how to wiggle out from under Mab's edict.

How that all plays with PTSD-Harry, I'm unclear.

... The White Court feeds on emotion, is also burned by it, Harry's searing grief may make their relationship impossible ...

Each Whamp has particular hunger/weakness pairing, and they don't really interact with other emotions.
Raith hungers for Lust, but is burned by Love.

So far as we know, Skavis(despair/hope) & Malvora(fear/courage) get nothing from Lust, nor do they suffer from Love.

None, so far as I know, interact directly with grief... though maybe in the Dresden'verse grief has "despair-adjacent" qualities?

[Mira]

Each Whamp has particular hunger/weakness pairing, and they don't really interact with other emotions.
Raith hungers for Lust, but is burned by Love.

So far as we know, Skavis(despair/hope) & Malvora(fear/courage) get nothing from Lust, nor do they suffer from Love.

None, so far as I know, interact directly with grief... though maybe in the Dresden'verse grief has "despair-adjacent" qualities?

I said emotions, I am aware that certain branches of the White Court feed off of different emotions.  Lara's branch happens to feed off of love and passion.  Love isn't simple as you know, and actually we do have a hint.  In White Knight Harry's lips still burn Lara years after his break up with Susan.  It says that Harry didn't get over Susan, he hasn't tried to be with anyone else since, he still grieves for their break up.  He isn't going to get over his loss of Murphy that quickly if ever. 

I expect the Winter-knight X Whamp-princess engagement to bring Harry & Lara closer together...

Not because either of them want it, but because they need a closer alliance to figure out how to wiggle out from under Mab's edict.

That might be their plan, but I doubt that it will be that simple or that Mab will be fooled by it.  It may be another of her not all that transparent plans to take either or both Harry and Lara down at least a peg.  You can bet that Mab has a plan, and it isn't what she claims, a stronger alliance between the Winter Court and the White Court. 

[g33k]

... That might be their plan, but I doubt that it will be that simple or that Mab will be fooled by it ...

Of course it won't be easy, and of course it won't fool Mab!
But IMO Mab doesn't want the marriage to go through:  she wants things that she expects to happen during the engagement.

So long as they show no overt disrespect to the Queen of Air and Darkness, Mab will be 100% satisfied with them not getting married.

I'm sure she has contingencies for if the marriage does take place, too.

... It may be another of her not all that transparent plans to take either or both Harry and Lara down at least a peg.  You can bet that Mab has a plan, and it isn't what she claims, a stronger alliance between the Winter Court and the White Court.

I'm pretty sure that Mab is pretty sure that there is some locus of Nemfection in the White Court, and that she intends to hit it with a "patented Harry Dresden anarchygasm" boosted by Winterknight steroids.

Incidentally, she forces Harry (yet again) to operate with an uncomfortable ally, to do diplomatic & social things, etc -- weaknesses of Harry's, that Mab is working to strengthen.

Also, Papa Raith has a substantial library around the Starborn cycle & current iteration of the apocalyptic Outsider invasion, and I'm sure Mab has more than an inkling of that... and that getting access to it for her Starborn Winterknight will substantially bolster his Outsider-fighting ability.

If they do get married, I expect the consummation to turn violent (and Harry will kill Lara):  WoJ has stated that Whampire-Mojo and the Winterknight-mantle interact in explosive and uncontrollable ways.

Mab will put success on any of these fronts into her "Win" column, and I 110% expect that she has other agendas I haven't spotted.