The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Twelve Months, chapter one
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 14, 2025, 03:40:01 PM ---I think what will ultimately make or break the relationship is how Lara handles Harry's grief. It's more complicated then you think, good intentions are not enough, timing is important, where the person on the recieving end of the process is important, and what may seem like the right thing to say or do could be taken totally wrong by the one grieving.. Conversely Lara may have to cut Harry a lot more slack than she is used to, because his responses may not seem rational, could even be offensive.
--- End quote ---
I hadn't thought about how Lara will react to Harry dealing with grief, other than trying to use it to gain some kind of advantage over him. Lara is the closest thing to being immortal as a flesh and blood being can get. Though she can be killed, she barely ages. I wonder if she has ever felt grief herself.
Do White Court vamps ever feel and suffer through grief in their own extended lives? To feel grief you probably have to have empathy, otherwise you wouldn't feel anything. But most White Court vamps seem to revel in their own psychopathy, if the conversations we've he have heard with Lord Raith, Madeline Raith, Madrigal Raith and Vito Malvora are any indication. Empathy just isn't their thing.
Lara is smarter than the average bear, which means she should have a greater understanding of what Harry is going through; at least on an intellectual basis. Lara might also be a little closer to having a normal personality than most white court vampires, though only by a tiny sliver. Thomas is the real outlier in his family in this regard.
So I think I agree with you Mira. The way Lara reacts to Harry's grief should be very important in shaping how their relationship will progress.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I hadn't thought about how Lara will react to Harry dealing with grief, other than trying to use it to gain some kind of advantage over him. Lara is the closest thing to being immortal as a flesh and blood being can get. Though she can be killed, she barely ages. I wonder if she has ever felt grief herself.
--- End quote ---
She feels something for Thomas, if one can judge by her reactions in Peace Talks.
--- Quote ---Do White Court vamps ever feel and suffer through grief in their own extended lives? To feel grief you probably have to have empathy, otherwise you wouldn't feel anything. But most White Court vamps seem to revel in their own psychopathy, if the conversations we've he have heard with Lord Raith, Madeline Raith, Madrigal Raith and Vito Malvora are any indication. Empathy just isn't their thing.
--- End quote ---
You also need to be able to love. The White Court feeds on emotion, is also burned by it, Harry's searing grief may make their relationship impossible.
--- Quote ---Lara is smarter than the average bear, which means she should have a greater understanding of what Harry is going through; at least on an intellectual basis. Lara might also be a little closer to having a normal personality than most white court vampires, though only by a tiny sliver. Thomas is the real outlier in his family in this regard.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but grief isn't something you can intellectualize, it comes from the gut in a torrent of emotions. She might be able to feed off of them and give him relief in that way.. Or his grief is so powerful it potentually could burn her to ashes.
g33k:
I expect the Winter-knight X Whamp-princess engagement to bring Harry & Lara closer together...
Not because either of them want it, but because they need a closer alliance to figure out how to wiggle out from under Mab's edict.
How that all plays with PTSD-Harry, I'm unclear.
--- Quote from: Mira on November 15, 2025, 12:41:49 PM ---... The White Court feeds on emotion, is also burned by it, Harry's searing grief may make their relationship impossible ...
--- End quote ---
Each Whamp has particular hunger/weakness pairing, and they don't really interact with other emotions.
Raith hungers for Lust, but is burned by Love.
So far as we know, Skavis(despair/hope) & Malvora(fear/courage) get nothing from Lust, nor do they suffer from Love.
None, so far as I know, interact directly with grief... though maybe in the Dresden'verse grief has "despair-adjacent" qualities?
Mira:
--- Quote ---Each Whamp has particular hunger/weakness pairing, and they don't really interact with other emotions.
Raith hungers for Lust, but is burned by Love.
So far as we know, Skavis(despair/hope) & Malvora(fear/courage) get nothing from Lust, nor do they suffer from Love.
None, so far as I know, interact directly with grief... though maybe in the Dresden'verse grief has "despair-adjacent" qualities?
--- End quote ---
I said emotions, I am aware that certain branches of the White Court feed off of different emotions. Lara's branch happens to feed off of love and passion. Love isn't simple as you know, and actually we do have a hint. In White Knight Harry's lips still burn Lara years after his break up with Susan. It says that Harry didn't get over Susan, he hasn't tried to be with anyone else since, he still grieves for their break up. He isn't going to get over his loss of Murphy that quickly if ever.
--- Quote ---I expect the Winter-knight X Whamp-princess engagement to bring Harry & Lara closer together...
Not because either of them want it, but because they need a closer alliance to figure out how to wiggle out from under Mab's edict.
--- End quote ---
That might be their plan, but I doubt that it will be that simple or that Mab will be fooled by it. It may be another of her not all that transparent plans to take either or both Harry and Lara down at least a peg. You can bet that Mab has a plan, and it isn't what she claims, a stronger alliance between the Winter Court and the White Court.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 16, 2025, 01:49:55 PM --- ... That might be their plan, but I doubt that it will be that simple or that Mab will be fooled by it ...
--- End quote ---
Of course it won't be easy, and of course it won't fool Mab!
But IMO Mab doesn't want the marriage to go through: she wants things that she expects to happen during the engagement.
So long as they show no overt disrespect to the Queen of Air and Darkness, Mab will be 100% satisfied with them not getting married.
I'm sure she has contingencies for if the marriage does take place, too.
--- Quote from: Mira on November 16, 2025, 01:49:55 PM --- ... It may be another of her not all that transparent plans to take either or both Harry and Lara down at least a peg. You can bet that Mab has a plan, and it isn't what she claims, a stronger alliance between the Winter Court and the White Court.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure that Mab is pretty sure that there is some locus of Nemfection in the White Court, and that she intends to hit it with a "patented Harry Dresden anarchygasm" boosted by Winterknight steroids.
Incidentally, she forces Harry (yet again) to operate with an uncomfortable ally, to do diplomatic & social things, etc -- weaknesses of Harry's, that Mab is working to strengthen.
Also, Papa Raith has a substantial library around the Starborn cycle & current iteration of the apocalyptic Outsider invasion, and I'm sure Mab has more than an inkling of that... and that getting access to it for her Starborn Winterknight will substantially bolster his Outsider-fighting ability.
If they do get married, I expect the consummation to turn violent (and Harry will kill Lara): WoJ has stated that Whampire-Mojo and the Winterknight-mantle interact in explosive and uncontrollable ways.
Mab will put success on any of these fronts into her "Win" column, and I 110% expect that she has other agendas I haven't spotted.
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