Murphy

[cander891]

In my current reread, I was digging into Grave Peril, and after Harry gets bit by the nightmare, Bob explains how humans become ghosts. Is there any possibility that Murphy becomes a ghost, meets her dad, or haunts Harry? Or does the Valkryie / Odin stuff make that not possible.

[Mira]

In my current reread, I was digging into Grave Peril, and after Harry gets bit by the nightmare, Bob explains how humans become ghosts. Is there any possibility that Murphy becomes a ghost, meets her dad, or haunts Harry? Or does the Valkryie / Odin stuff make that not possible.

She isn't a Valkdryie, she has become an Einherjar.  According to Gard she cannot come back until all those who remember her are gone...   So according to the rules, Harry should not see her anymore.  However we all know Jim will find a way around that, even if Harry sees her in the alternative universe in Mirrormirror, and then it won't be like it was so more pain for Harry.  Which may explain the wisdom of the rule in the first place.

[magnuskn]

"The rules" being something which distinctly sounded made up on the spot by Gard to me. We never heard of this rule before Gard mentioned it and how firm it is, is a thing of complete speculation.

[Mira]

"The rules" being something which distinctly sounded made up on the spot by Gard to me. We never heard of this rule before Gard mentioned it and how firm it is, is a thing of complete speculation.

  I doubt that Gard made it up, you forget that she also lost her lover in the battle for Chicago.  She understands and accepts the rule, if she could get her lover back in any form, I think she would.   If we do see Murphy again I think it will be in the alternate universe of Mirrormirror.  I also think because of this, Harry will also come to understand the why of the rule and accept it.

[magnuskn]

  I doubt that Gard made it up, you forget that she also lost her lover in the battle for Chicago.  She understands and accepts the rule, if she could get her lover back in any form, I think she would.   If we do see Murphy again I think it will be in the alternate universe of Mirrormirror.  I also think because of this, Harry will also come to understand the why of the rule and accept it.

Gard is a Valkyrie. She can go visit Hendricks any time she likes in the golden hall of Valhalla.

[KurtinStGeorge]

So, how does someone become a Valkyrie?  Doing a little research about Norse mythology the evidence needed to answer this question is somewhat sketchy and some of it comes from Roman stories about Amazons and some of it is from the post-Viking age, both of which are questionable.

There is some talk about female warriors; shield maidens, who became Valkyries.  According to Gard, the Maiden idea; as in being a virgin, is nonsense.  I think that conversation is in one of the short stories.

With that in mind, I could see Murphy becoming a Valkyrie, if she didn’t get that status immediately.  I could even see Jim doing a Conan the Barbarian movie reference that has Valkyrie Murphy asking / telling Harry, “Do you want to live forever?”

[Mira]

So, how does someone become a Valkyrie?  Doing a little research about Norse mythology the evidence needed to answer this question is somewhat sketchy and some of it comes from Roman stories about Amazons and some of it is from the post-Viking age, both of which are questionable.

There is some talk about female warriors; shield maidens, who became Valkyries.  According to Gard, the Maiden idea; as in being a virgin, is nonsense.  I think that conversation is in one of the short stories.

With that in mind, I could see Murphy becoming a Valkyrie, if she didn’t get that status immediately.  I could even see Jim doing a Conan the Barbarian movie reference that has Valkyrie Murphy asking / telling Harry, “Do you want to live forever?”

Somehow I don't think it will be that simple.  If it is, I think it will amount to poor writing, if we do see Murphy again, it will either be in Mirrormirror or the final reel of the BAT. 

Gard is a Valkyrie. She can go visit Hendricks any time she likes in the golden hall of Valhalla.

Can she?  If she could or knew that, why was she grieving so hard for him?  Because if what you say is true, then Hendricks would now be immortal like her, they could be lovers forever.

[magnuskn]

Somehow I don't think it will be that simple.  If it is, I think it will amount to poor writing, if we do see Murphy again, it will either be in Mirrormirror or the final reel of the BAT. 

How would that be poor writing? Jim has set up Murphy to be kind of a living Valkyrie since about book two, where it was first mentioned that Harry perceived her as such. I just re-read the early books a few weeks ago (in preparation for Twelve Months) and was quite surprised to find that reference in there so early.

Can she?  If she could or knew that, why was she grieving so hard for him?  Because if what you say is true, then Hendricks would now be immortal like her, they could be lovers forever.

He still just died, probably before her eyes, so grief would be a natural reaction. Or maybe she sensed it beforehand (like she did with Harry, before Marcone intervened many books ago) and felt overcome when it finally happened.

Or maybe Santa Claus is running a big con on Harry and she was faking it under his orders. I am, in retrospect, actually kinda surprised how things went down, with Murphy being a devout catholic. One would think Uriel would have something to say to Odin about taking someone who wielded one of the three swords as an Einherjar. Unless they both want Murphy to power up in preparation for what is coming down the line. Just saying.

[LaraBeck]

So, how does someone become a Valkyrie? 

In the Norse mythology that we know, nothing is that clear, you're right.

But in the Dresden Universe, we have this little passage in Aftermath:

Gard nodded, her eyes steady, and she looked back at the warehouse again. “There’s another position you might consider. Monoc Securities is always hiring. My boss is always pleased to find those with “the proper”—she pursed her lips—“frame of mind. Considering your experience and skill set, I think you could do very well as one of our security consultants.”
“And work for guys like Marcone?” I asked.
“You should bear in mind that this is the second such incursion of the fomor,” Gard said in a level voice. “And there have been a half-dozen others nosing at the city in the last eight months alone. All of them have been turned away, courtesy of Marcone.”
“He’s swell,” I said.
“He keeps his word,” Gard replied, “which puts him a step above most of your own superiors, in my opinion. Like him or not, he has defended this city. It’s no minor thing.”
“Every predator defends its territory,” I said. “Pass.”
Her eyes glittered with amusement, and she shook her head. “Vadderung would definitely find you interesting. You’ve even got the hair for it. Don’t be surprised if you get a call sometime.”
“It’s a free country,” I said.

I think the insinuation here is that becoming a valkyrie is a thing that is possible in the dresdenverse, we already know that they're not Odin's daughters.

[LaraBeck]

He still just died, probably before her eyes, so grief would be a natural reaction. Or maybe she sensed it beforehand (like she did with Harry, before Marcone intervened many books ago) and felt overcome when it finally happened.

Personally, I believe Gard has lost a bit of her touch. And she doesn't really know everything either.

One would think Uriel would have something to say to Odin about taking someone who wielded one of the three swords as an Einherjar. Unless they both want Murphy to power up in preparation for what is coming down the line. Just saying.

I think this is exactly what it is about. First, never in the books we saw Murphy being more catholic than she was shown to be than in Battle Ground, that's your first clue. Second, she reached Harry thanks to the Knights, they helped her get to the battlefield, the knights are ALWAYS where they're supposed to be, where the white god wants them to be. Third, we know that Odin and Uriel are at the very least friendly (don't they have an annual meeting over coffee or something like that?). Four, we have word of Jim about people just waking up in Valhalla, being "lent" to Odin's preparing army. Five, it makes a hell of a lot of sense, that Murphy who was compared time and again through the series to an warrior angel, and who's accompany Harry to every battle he's won, to be protected for now, preserved for later on in the series when Harry needs her the most, that she shows up to accompany him in battle again, maybe pick him up from the field and save him, you know, like some versions of the myths about valkyries, or hey, guardian angels. Also, it's an excellent piece of leverage in Odin's favor. IMO, there is a plan in motion here...

[Tinfoil hat]

Or maybe Santa Claus is running a big con on Harry and she was faking it under his orders. I am, in retrospect, actually kinda surprised how things went down, with Murphy being a devout catholic. One would think Uriel would have something to say to Odin about taking someone who wielded one of the three swords as an Einherjar. Unless they both want Murphy to power up in preparation for what is coming down the line. Just saying.

Considering how big a deal free will Murphy had to be given a choice. Go in to the light, or join be Odin crew.
Does anyone one still have the quote about Odin having Soul fire. Im not sure but it seems to be used in the creation of einherjar and valkyries.

[Mira]

How would that be poor writing? Jim has set up Murphy to be kind of a living Valkyrie since about book two, where it was first mentioned that Harry perceived her as such. I just re-read the early books a few weeks ago (in preparation for Twelve Months) and was quite surprised to find that reference in there so early.

  I don't remember his ever saying that about her in the early books. He saw her as a cop.  He did see her with his wizard's sight and saw her as kind of an angel, but not as a Valkyrie. 

He still just died, probably before her eyes, so grief would be a natural reaction. Or maybe she sensed it beforehand (like she did with Harry, before Marcone intervened many books ago) and felt overcome when it finally happened.

Hey, if she knew for sure about Hendricks, that he'd be with her forever, and she would know because she hauls these warriors off to Valhalla,  she wouldn't be sad.   Also Gard wouldn't have a reason to lie about it, she says it's one of the rules.

Or maybe Santa Claus is running a big con on Harry and she was faking it under his orders. I am, in retrospect, actually kinda surprised how things went down, with Murphy being a devout catholic. One would think Uriel would have something to say to Odin about taking someone who wielded one of the three swords as an Einherjar. Unless they both want Murphy to power up in preparation for what is coming down the line. Just saying.

I was surprised as well.  Murphy rejected being a Holy Knight after Changes, remember?  She felt she was a better judge than God, then she got a Holy Sword broken.  Not saying that was enough for her not to go to Heaven and work for her father, but that might be why she went to Valhalla instead.